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  #201  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:16 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is online now
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He's actually already been on Star Trek. He had a minor role on Enterprise, Ensign Rivers, who appeared in the episodes The Forgotten and Affliction.
As earlier posted: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rivers
  #202  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:33 PM
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Hell, that wasn't even the only Easter egg in the character names. The sapient AI is named "Isaac". The admiral's last name is "Halsey". The doctor's last name is "Grayson".

SPOILER:
As in Asimov, the Paul McCartney song, and Spock's mother respectively.
Paul McCartney song? How about the actual Admiral "Bull" Halsey. Started WWII as commander of the task force that included th USS Enterprise and finished it as commander of the Third Fleet. First thing I thought of.
  #203  
Old 09-13-2017, 04:46 PM
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I liked the 2 out of three engines being out of commission, good thing they had an extra.

Looking forward to seeing the Orville's sister ship...
and don't forget - the shields were down to 2/3!
  #204  
Old 09-13-2017, 05:44 PM
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I know that Larry Niven did a time bubble death scene that was very similar to this one in one of the "Long ARM of Gil Hamilton" stories. Generally he's not know for writing really, really stupid science, although he does occasionally admit to being wrong (about whether Ringworlds are stable and, somewhat more embarrassingly, about what direction you'd want to teleport if you want to extend your birthday as much as possible). But I don't think Niven's time bubble was quite as accelerated -- maybe it was a 30:1 ratio?
I'm pretty sure it was greater than a 30:1 ratio, because the "mysterious weapon" used to kill someone was an ordinary flashlight used from inside the time field to the outside of the time field to burn someone's face off. There was a second time bubble though, and if it was inside the first time bubble a 900:1 output ratio could have done the trick.
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Old 09-13-2017, 06:03 PM
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Paul McCartney song? How about the actual Admiral "Bull" Halsey. Started WWII as commander of the task force that included th USS Enterprise and finished it as commander of the Third Fleet. First thing I thought of.
"When we get through with them, the only place Japanese will be spoken is in Hell."
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  #206  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:52 PM
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Paul McCartney song? How about the actual Admiral "Bull" Halsey.
McCartney's song never would have occurred to me either.
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  #207  
Old 09-13-2017, 06:58 PM
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"Captain, can we talk?"
Apparently, his first name is "Stewie," not "Joan."

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rivers
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  #208  
Old 09-13-2017, 10:00 PM
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Apparently, his first name is "Stewie," not "Joan."

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rivers
Humor; it is a difficult concept.
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  #209  
Old 09-14-2017, 12:02 AM
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So, if anyone has seen both, how does it compare to Hyperdrive, my go-to Trek parody series.
I loved Hyperdrive, but I need to see a few more episodes of this to compare them.
  #210  
Old 09-14-2017, 02:43 PM
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Humor; it is a difficult concept.
I wonder if Rivers' middle name is "Gilligan."
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  #211  
Old 09-14-2017, 03:12 PM
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I wonder if Rivers' middle name is "Gilligan."
I eventually got Stewie, but Gilligan's Island?
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  #212  
Old 09-14-2017, 03:37 PM
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Stewie on Family Guy is Stewart Gilligan Griffin.

Finally gotten around to watching my recording of The Orville.

As a Star Trek knock-off sci-fi action-adventure...it's OK...something that would hold my attention when it was on, but I wouldn't mourn if it was cancelled.

As a comedy...meh. Family Guy and American Dad started pretty crap, too, so I'll give it a few episodes to get its feet under it like they did, before giving up hope, but most of the jokes, especially in the first half hour, fell flat (at best - some of them I was embarrassed for the actors having to deliver them). Actually, I'd prefer they dialed back the humour significantly, which would allow both more focus on the part that works better, and only using the best jokes. But that's almost certainly not going to happen.
  #213  
Old 09-14-2017, 04:19 PM
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Stewie on Family Guy is Stewart Gilligan Griffin.
Thanks.

The only other exposure I have to McFarlane is 1,000 Ways to Die In the West.
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  #214  
Old 09-14-2017, 04:29 PM
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Thanks.

The only other exposure I have to McFarlane is 1,000 Ways to Die In the West.
So you only watched the first 0.0001% of the movie?
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:13 PM
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So you only watched the first 0.0001% of the movie?
No, I just have a bad memory.
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  #216  
Old 09-14-2017, 05:15 PM
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So you only watched the first 0.0001% of the movie?
Only if he left after the first death. (1000 is 0.1% of 1,000,000.)
  #217  
Old 09-14-2017, 05:28 PM
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One of the reviews described it as "Star Trek with the serial numbers filed off," which I thought was apt.

Although I found the pilot mildly entertaining, I'm baffled that this show exists at all. I have the sense that McFarlane really, really, really wanted to be in Star Trek, so he made his own copy of it. It's essentially fan fiction and cosplaying on a big-budget scale. Why not do something original instead?

I'm not a big fan of McFarlane's humor or his acting style. Most of the gags seemed pretty lame to me. I liked everyone in the cast except him.

I'll probably watch a couple more episodes and see where it goes, but I'm not feeling optimistic.
I also liked most of the crew and find McFarlane incredibly unlikeable in anything he does.
  #218  
Old 09-14-2017, 05:57 PM
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McCartney's song never would have occurred to me either.
We're so sorry.
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Old 09-14-2017, 07:45 PM
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We're so sorry.
FYI, I haven't done a bloody thing all day!
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  #220  
Old 09-14-2017, 09:33 PM
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FYI, I haven't done a bloody thing all day!
Just put the butter in the bloody pie, dammit!
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  #221  
Old 09-14-2017, 10:04 PM
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Just watched it, and quite enjoyed it. Not used to having to wait any more, so not having more to watch disappointed me.
  #222  
Old 09-15-2017, 04:50 AM
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It was Star Trek with actual human beings in it. I'll stick around for the novelty factor, at least for a few more episodes. If they can get their feet under them, this could be genuinely great.
This was exactly my thought. A few dud jokes aside, these people act like people, not like idealized action heroes. Of course the bridge crew cracks jokes. Of course they talk smack about the captain behind his back. That's what people do!

It had some weak spots, but overall I liked it.

Regarding the confusion some people are having over whether it's a comedy or a drama; so-called dramadies have been around for a while now. Admittedly this takes it further, but I'm not going to reject something just because it goes against convention.
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  #223  
Old 09-15-2017, 05:53 AM
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This was exactly my thought. A few dud jokes aside, these people act like people, not like idealized action heroes. Of course the bridge crew cracks jokes. Of course they talk smack about the captain behind his back. That's what people do!
The bit where Lamarr cautiously asks Mercer if it's still OK to have soda on the bridge struck me as one of the more human moments on the show, for sure.
  #224  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:46 AM
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This was exactly my thought. A few dud jokes aside, these people act like people, not like idealized action heroes. Of course the bridge crew cracks jokes. Of course they talk smack about the captain behind his back. That's what people do!
Also, they have more than 3,000 ships to fill (how many ships were supposed to be in Starfleet) and The Orville isn't an especially significant one. This isn't a flagship crew, these are the leftovers.
  #225  
Old 09-15-2017, 09:56 AM
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This was exactly my thought. A few dud jokes aside, these people act like people, not like idealized action heroes. Of course the bridge crew cracks jokes. Of course they talk smack about the captain behind his back. That's what people do!

It had some weak spots, but overall I liked it.

Regarding the confusion some people are having over whether it's a comedy or a drama; so-called dramadies have been around for a while now. Admittedly this takes it further, but I'm not going to reject something just because it goes against convention.
On Dramadies:

Showing their age now but in their day M*A*S*H & All In the Family were 2 of the best shows ever. Scrubs was a very funny dramedy and Pushing Daisies was pure awesome. Even with Star Trek, two of their best episodes play heavy on humor. Tribbles and Piece of the Action were built around humor.
  #226  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:13 AM
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Some of McFarlane's jokes were duds, IMO, but I did like the banana scene: The quick fire snark delivered double-barreled style by the Captain and his XO seemed, to me, to show that the pair did indeed have a familiarity with each other's thought processes, and that they may be "on the same page" in some ways. Or am I reading too much into that interaction?

I think it's entertaining that most of this crew (C.O. included) is not "the best of the best of the best, Sir!". It could have been tempting to McFarlane to make himself an over the top action hero, Zap Brannigan style, but instead he seems more of an office dweeb who got promoted into a job that is slightly beyond his capabilities. He may grow into his job, with the help of his crew.
  #227  
Old 09-15-2017, 11:16 AM
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It could have been tempting to McFarlane to make himself an over the top action hero, Zap Brannigan style, but instead he seems more of an office dweeb who got promoted into a job that is slightly beyond his capabilities. He may grow into his job, with the help of his crew.


It's interesting. I think this might be the first time the Audience Stand-In Character* is actually the Captain of the ship.


*That's the guy who is constantly being told, "As you know, the quirbling frangistat needs to be larbled at least once a quatloon....", just so that the audience knows what's going on.
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  #228  
Old 09-15-2017, 11:59 AM
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Some of McFarlane's jokes were duds, IMO, but I did like the banana scene: The quick fire snark delivered double-barreled style by the Captain and his XO seemed, to me, to show that the pair did indeed have a familiarity with each other's thought processes, and that they may be "on the same page" in some ways. Or am I reading too much into that interaction?
They were married. So yeah, they are a tad familiar with each other.
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  #229  
Old 09-15-2017, 03:48 PM
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Paul McCartney song? How about the actual Admiral "Bull" Halsey. Started WWII as commander of the task force that included th USS Enterprise and finished it as commander of the Third Fleet. First thing I thought of.
McCartney has said in interviews that he had the American admiral in mind, but as it happens, there was a British one, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Halsey
  #230  
Old 09-15-2017, 04:02 PM
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I'm pretty sure it was greater than a 30:1 ratio, because the "mysterious weapon" used to kill someone was an ordinary flashlight used from inside the time field to the outside of the time field to burn someone's face off. There was a second time bubble though, and if it was inside the first time bubble a 900:1 output ratio could have done the trick.
Have you seen the current LED flashlight fetish webpages? An ordinary flashlight could burn someone's face off nowadays :-)
  #231  
Old 09-15-2017, 04:14 PM
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It's interesting. I think this might be the first time the Audience Stand-In Character* is actually the Captain of the ship.


*That's the guy who is constantly being told, "As you know, the quirbling frangistat needs to be larbled at least once a quatloon....", just so that the audience knows what's going on.
Like "Joe" in Destination Moon: "Here on the Moon, night is two weeks long."

My favorite example came in some Japanese flick when one astronaut was surprised to find himself floating around the cabin of his spaceship (nobody warned him about this before he volunteered for the mission ): "You have to be careful! There's no gravity up here!"

... And then everybody gets up and starts walking around. (Apparently, they'd all been issued magnetic boots, but we were never told about them. )
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  #232  
Old 09-15-2017, 07:15 PM
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he seems more of an office dweeb who got promoted into a job that is slightly beyond his capabilities.
Didn't they say that he had had a bright future ahead of him, had he not fallen into a bottle when his marriage started having problems?

Captaining the Orville isn't beyond his capabilities, it's where he would have been if his career hadn't gotten derailed.
  #233  
Old 09-15-2017, 08:16 PM
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Didn't they say that he had had a bright future ahead of him, had he not fallen into a bottle when his marriage started having problems?

Captaining the Orville isn't beyond his capabilities, it's where he would have been if his career hadn't gotten derailed.
In fact I think they hinted that they were expecting him to be in charge of a cruiser by now.
  #234  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:31 PM
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I'm fairly certain the once-a-year-piss guy is going to piss out a huge fire, ala Strange Brew.
Not to mention Gulliver's Travels.

I just watched it tonight and enjoyed it. It's a fun version of Trek. The characters did seem more human to me than TOS or TNG. I liked the jokes. I'll keep watching.

If I were African-American would I be offended at the soda-drinking helmsman?
  #235  
Old 09-15-2017, 10:37 PM
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If I were African-American would I be offended at the soda-drinking helmsman?
Dunno. Was it grape soda?
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  #236  
Old 09-16-2017, 09:01 AM
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...
If I were African-American would I be offended at the soda-drinking helmsman?
Why? I must have missed something.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:13 AM
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Why? I must have missed something.
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-black-...ape-soda-drink

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Old 09-16-2017, 11:13 AM
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Why? I must have missed something.
Its a little weird. That character is going to develop, but how? The redhead helmsman is drinking beer to loosen up, and was showboating and lost some cargo, but his "riding the donkey" aka just looping the Orville around the Krill Destroyer, taking pot shots and not letting them just blast away at the shields saved the day. So that's his thing. Along with rabid loyalty to Captain Mercer vs his bitch wife -- Oops, did I say that on the bridge to the other officers, oopsie. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me in the ass. Or alienate other women on the bridge who might see her point of view. Or actually respect an XO gener and personal life notwithstanding.

But the African helmsman? During inspection, the one thing he wants is to drink soda on the bridge? Why's he asking permission to do that? If he can, he shouldn't have to ask, if he can't, he shouldn't bring it up. And the Captain says, "Sure, just don't spill any on the instruments."

Does the helmsman have the future version of diabetes, hypoglycemia, is he actually a shape-shifting being that needs to stay super-hydrated to keep his form? Is there booze in his soda, or drugs, or a rare nutrient that gives him super powers?

Or is this just a "What?" moment thrown in to keep us talking about it?

Last edited by Arkcon; 09-16-2017 at 11:15 AM.
  #239  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:16 AM
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If I were African-American would I be offended at the soda-drinking helmsman?
Why? I must have missed something.
It seemed cliche and stereotypical, approaching the boundary of offense. Since I'm not in that group, I can't say whether the joke crosses to actual offense or not.

For MacFarlane to not cross the line, and not obviously cross it, is unusually restrained for him.

ETA: Arkcon makes better points that I do.
  #240  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:32 AM
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Its a little weird. That character is going to develop, but how? The redhead helmsman is drinking beer to loosen up, and was showboating and lost some cargo, but his "riding the donkey" aka just looping the Orville around the Krill Destroyer, taking pot shots and not letting them just blast away at the shields saved the day. So that's his thing. Along with rabid loyalty to Captain Mercer vs his bitch wife -- Oops, did I say that on the bridge to the other officers, oopsie. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me in the ass. Or alienate other women on the bridge who might see her point of view. Or actually respect an XO gener and personal life notwithstanding.

But the African helmsman? During inspection, the one thing he wants is to drink soda on the bridge? Why's he asking permission to do that? If he can, he shouldn't have to ask, if he can't, he shouldn't bring it up. And the Captain says, "Sure, just don't spill any on the instruments."

Does the helmsman have the future version of diabetes, hypoglycemia, is he actually a shape-shifting being that needs to stay super-hydrated to keep his form? Is there booze in his soda, or drugs, or a rare nutrient that gives him super powers?

Or is this just a "What?" moment thrown in to keep us talking about it?
Oh geez, is that all? That is an actual conversation many of us have had or heard working in office environments. Some firms back in the dark ages of the 90s did not want people eating or drinking at their desks. Most commonly as the computer equipment was considered a major expense at the time and sensitive to spills and crumbs. Less commonly was just a general concern about people with poor house keeping skills and the resultant vermin they might attract.

Places seem to be far more lax about these concerns, but it was a thing.
  #241  
Old 09-16-2017, 01:46 PM
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Or is this just a "What?" moment thrown in to keep us talking about it?
I think the most obvious and logical explanation is that they plan on making a lot of episodes, and are setting up his character for future references to the "most confident and popular guy on the ship who's really good at his job" idea; note that Mercer was visibly impressed with his resume. John LaMarr seems largely concerned with how he gets along with other people; the only other real interaction we have with him is when he scopes our Gordon, and later encourages him when he has to save the shuttle.

There's not much else to it. They can't dig into every character in 42 minutes without the show being hardly anything else.

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Also, they have more than 3,000 ships to fill (how many ships were supposed to be in Starfleet) and The Orville isn't an especially significant one. This isn't a flagship crew, these are the leftovers.
Starfleet is smaller than any sort of logic would dictate, by virtue of anything we're told. For instance, at the Battle of Wolf-359, the Borg cube destroys 39 ships; this is presented as being the best the Federation could pull together to face the Borg ship, though they had substantial advance notice. I have to point out that Wolf-359 is not in the Federation boondocks; it's the fifth-closest star to the Earth besides the Sun.

This battle is suggested to be a significant blow to the Federation's battle capability.

Considering how frigging big space is, a fleet of thousands of ships would seem to make more sense for a large interstellar empire than a fleet that is severely mauled by the loss of 39 ships.
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Last edited by RickJay; 09-16-2017 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 09-16-2017, 03:30 PM
Arkcon Arkcon is offline
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There's not much else to it. They can't dig into every character in 42 minutes without the show being hardly anything else.
Whoo..careful, there were many such episodes in NextGen and later Treks. I guess trying to compensate for letting Shatner get all the focus in ToS, we were often treated to a Tom Paris episode, or a Geordi episode, or the like. That said, focusing on a character can be lots of fun -- Worf episodes always good, DS9 Ferengi episodes are mostly good (I stopped watching before Quark's short term sex change) those episodes really tell a story that fills you in on something in the background of the race.

Thing is, maybe you've got it right. Maybe the only thing about Lamar is that he drinks soda in the job. Heck, he's doing what we're doing -- sitting in a comfy chair and watching a screen to see what people are doing.
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Old 09-16-2017, 03:39 PM
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Oh geez, is that all? That is an actual conversation many of us have had or heard working in office environments. Some firms back in the dark ages of the 90s did not want people eating or drinking at their desks. Most commonly as the computer equipment was considered a major expense at the time and sensitive to spills and crumbs. Less commonly was just a general concern about people with poor house keeping skills and the resultant vermin they might attract.

Places seem to be far more lax about these concerns, but it was a thing.
Yeah, the joke is that the transfer of power to a new captain on a 25th century starship is basically the same as having a new middle manager show up in the office. The manager has a bunch of big plans for the department. Everyone else just wonders if they get to keep the same unofficial "perks" that they got from the last guy, like drinking soda at your desk, or getting off ten minutes early on Tuesday so you can pick up your kid from soccer practice, or if the new guy will be bringing in bagels on Fridays like the old guy did?
  #244  
Old 09-16-2017, 05:04 PM
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Tim R. Mortiss Tim R. Mortiss is offline
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I liked it, but I would NOT characterize it as a comedy, or even a dromedy. It is just a space show where the people are a little more normal than on most shows, acting informal and joking around. I called it (to myself) "Hipsters In Space." I doubt McFarlane even thinks he is being funny. He's just being himself. (He would have said "I loosened it for you" without even expecting to get a laugh out of anyone.)

Loved seeing Kassidy Yates pop up as the Doc, and the designer of Titanic as the Admiral. And did anyone else think the Krill look a lot like Jem'Hadar soldiers?
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Last edited by Tim R. Mortiss; 09-16-2017 at 05:05 PM.
  #245  
Old 09-16-2017, 05:53 PM
Ethilrist Ethilrist is offline
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Also, they have more than 3,000 ships to fill (how many ships were supposed to be in Starfleet) and The Orville isn't an especially significant one. This isn't a flagship crew, these are the leftovers.
I was wondering about this... did I miss something where they explained why they built so many ships they couldn't crew that they were literally scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a captain for this one? It was kind of implied with the final conversation with the Commander that she got the captain the posting, but they were talking earlier in the show about having so many ships to fill. Did they find a sudden cache of hidden ships, or did somebody win the lottery?

And, about the insignificant part... every time they showed us the huge docking station in space, I had to look to see where the ship was. That terminal was built for ships waaaayyyy larger than the Orville.
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Last edited by Ethilrist; 09-16-2017 at 05:54 PM. Reason: I like string
  #246  
Old 09-16-2017, 06:04 PM
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Perhaps they are counting the equivalent of PT boats, tugs and garbage scows.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:41 PM
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Many of those "Science of Star Trek"-type books,blogs, message board posting, etc. point some variation of this out. The more carefully we study it,the more unfeasible and implausible the entire concept becomes. DS9, urm Terak Nor, had those huge pylons that didn't do anything also. Seth MacFarlane decided to hang a lampshade on it, pointing out how big the quadrant is, and how few ships the really have to cover the whole thickness of the galactic disk, even if its just a quarter. Personally, I'd say that they had a federation covering a bit of one spiral arm that happened to contain Earth and be done with it. Who wants to claim the empty bits between the spiral arms in each quadrant? Meh. Maybe later the Orville will claim that's what they mean by "quadrant."

There should be millions of robot probes, automated telescopes and other things I can't envision doing the grunt work of managing space.

And why is the advanced time manipulation science done on a space station far from Earth. Is rent too high on Earth? I saw it, it didn't look as built up as Courscant. And are there colonies on other planets, because cynical people are always ripping up that concept.

But this is what's fun for me. Just how many lampshades will Seth MacFarlane hang on Trek and sci-fi in general.
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Old 09-16-2017, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkcon View Post
Many of those "Science of Star Trek"-type books,blogs, message board posting, etc. point some variation of this out. The more carefully we study it,the more unfeasible and implausible the entire concept becomes. DS9, urm Terak Nor, had those huge pylons that didn't do anything also.
The docking pylons were made for docking.

Of course, Cardassian design does tend to be a bit grandiose. Maybe the Orville's Planetary Union shares the same architects.
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Old 09-16-2017, 07:10 PM
Arkcon Arkcon is offline
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The docking pylons were made for docking.

Annnddd, when did a ship dock there? The Defiant? The Enterprise on the first episode? Every other ship is tiny relative to the pylons. What's in the pylons? Giant empty space? Crew elevators for a bazilion crew to disembark at once? Cargo lifters? Refueling batteries?

Quote:
Of course, Cardassian design does tend to be a bit grandiose. Maybe the Orville's Planetary Union shares the same architects.
Place to stick a lampshade?
  #250  
Old 09-16-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tim R. Mortiss View Post
<...>

And did anyone else think the Krill look a lot like Jem'Hadar soldiers?
My daughter's boyfriend and I were speculating that they might be an albino offshoot of the Jem'Hadar. And that whatever their origin, they apparently got their shooting skills from the Imperial Stormtroopers.

Regarding Admiral Halsey, there's an aviation link with him as well: he was offered command of the USS Saratoga in 1934, subject to completion of training as an air observer (traditionally only aviators can command USN carriers). Instead, he opted for pilot training and won his wings at the age of 52 the oldest newly-hatched pilot in USN history, a record highly unlikely to be broken.
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