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  #101  
Old 03-15-2018, 12:57 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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But the question now is who is Clare and Baldwin really working for?
I thought it was Alexander Pope. Speaking of which, I hope we get more backstory on him.
  #102  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:13 PM
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While we relate more to the Alpha universe because it was introduced first and appears to be just like ours (no superflu, etc), do both universes consider themselves to be the "original"? i.e. From the perspective of each universe, THEIR scientists opened the portal to the other?


They haven't really addressed this issue, but it seems to me that the Prime universe thinks that it is the one at a disadvantage, which suggests an inferiority complex to me. Perhaps they think of themselves as being "just a copy"?

And another question: Did the duplication of the Universe and the creation of the portal happen at the same time, or was there a delay? If there was a delay, did one side find the portal before the other? That could have serious implications for their relationship.
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  #103  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:23 PM
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Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Question though. We are told that scientists created an exact duplicate universe . We are first introduce to the Alpha universe (bureaucrat Howard) and then later the Prime universe (spy Howard). While we relate more to the Alpha universe because it was introduced first and appears to be just like ours (no superflu, etc), do both universes consider themselves to be the "original"? i.e. From the perspective of each universe, THEIR scientists opened the portal to the other?
"Original" and "copy" aren't really useful terms, any more than with a set of identical twins, one is the original and one the copy. Both were the original.

I just watched all 8 episodes so far over the past few days. One thing I can't help thinking about is how perfunctory the "boarder" searches seem. Then I look at a MicroSD card which can literally be hidden under a postage stamp and come in sizes up to 512 GB. Take the appreciable risk once of smuggling over a small smartphone or digital camera to the lower-tech side and afterwards take very little risk at all shuttling across vast amounts of data.
  #104  
Old 03-15-2018, 01:52 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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What I'm wondering is whether the public at large is aware of this cold war going on. I mean, it seems the existence of the mirror world is a closely held secret, but there's this vast infrastructure on both sides set up to support the war. Who do most people think is the enemy?
  #105  
Old 03-15-2018, 08:29 PM
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What I'm wondering is whether the public at large is aware of this cold war going on. I mean, it seems the existence of the mirror world is a closely held secret, but there's this vast infrastructure on both sides set up to support the war. Who do most people think is the enemy?
Most people are unaware that this cold war even exists. Even Howard Alpha, an employee of IO (the organization that manages the portal), married to a senior Office of Interchange (OI) agent, had absolutely no idea of the existence of the Prime world.

A better question (which starts to poke holes in the core concepts of the show) is how many people on either side actually know about the portal and the mirror worlds? Dozens? Hundreds? Thousands? OI is presented as a UN agency. Are heads of state and governments aware? How is it funded? Is it just some line on a black ops budget somewhere?

Why is it so difficult to track people passing between worlds? It's not JFK. It's a single doorway with not a lot of people passing back and forth.



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They haven't really addressed this issue, but it seems to me that the Prime universe thinks that it is the one at a disadvantage, which suggests an inferiority complex to me. Perhaps they think of themselves as being "just a copy"?

And another question: Did the duplication of the Universe and the creation of the portal happen at the same time, or was there a delay? If there was a delay, did one side find the portal before the other? That could have serious implications for their relationship.
My understanding is that Darren Garrison's "identical twins" metaphor to describe the worlds would be "imprecise" (to quote Howard Silk). There was one universe, scientists ran some experiments, then there were two. Exactly the same down to the atomic level. Like the scientists opened a door and there were a mirror set of scientists who opened their door at the same instant. At that point, the universes started diverging. They diverged significantly after around 10 years when Prime was hit by a massive pandemic.

The Prime universe experienced a plague that killed 7% of their population 20 years ago while the Alpha universe did not. And in many ways the Alpha universe is a bit more advanced (cell phones). So there is this tension where they feel they might be getting the short end of this deal.

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  #106  
Old 03-15-2018, 11:17 PM
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We are shown that Prime World is in many ways superior, especially in biotech/bioengineering and agriculture: HIV cure, advanced medical care, better food and cigarettes, tea, and vodka, oceans and environment cleaned up, high-tech planes and skyscrapers. Just the resolution on mobile computer screens is not that great, or something.
  #107  
Old 03-15-2018, 11:42 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Except that the two worlds have only deviated for thirty years. Is that long enough for that many differences to have developed between them?
  #108  
Old 03-16-2018, 12:32 AM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Except that the two worlds have only deviated for thirty years. Is that long enough for that many differences to have developed between them?
Well that's an interesting question. If you are starting with two exact copies of the same exact universe, would they behave in the same exact way? Or is there some inherent degree of randomness that, given the same exact conditions, could still result in slightly different outcomes?

The show seems to propose that there would be slight differences and they would propagate over time. ie Emily Prime gives birth to a child while Emily Alpha miscarries. Or Apple Alpha funds research on the iPhone while Apple Prime sticks to PCs. Or if Gore won the election instead of George Bush. Or 9/11 was stopped in one universe but not the other.

The main deviation is the flu pandemic in the Prime universe 20 years ago but not the Alpha. The death of half a billion people 20 years ago would have a profound effect on society.

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  #109  
Old 03-16-2018, 06:56 AM
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My understanding is that Darren Garrison's "identical twins" metaphor to describe the worlds would be "imprecise" (to quote Howard Silk). There was one universe, scientists ran some experiments, then there were two. Exactly the same down to the atomic level. Like the scientists opened a door and there were a mirror set of scientists who opened their door at the same instant. At that point, the universes started diverging. They diverged significantly after around 10 years when Prime was hit by a massive pandemic.
Which is pretty much exactly what I was describing by my "identical twins" metaphor. One thing splits to become two identical things at the same instant, then diverge. Neither has the standing to be called the "original" because both are.
  #110  
Old 03-16-2018, 07:13 AM
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Well that's an interesting question. If you are starting with two exact copies of the same exact universe, would they behave in the same exact way?
When negotiating for the release of the assassin, "our side" was offered--among other things--information on an earthquake, so at the time I had assumed that it was an earthquake that happened on their side that didn't happen on ours. But looking at the transcript, they offered "Italian vaccination numbers and a classified seismic summary of the 2009 earthquake," so from the "Italy" mention I'm assuming that it was this one. ("Our side in return asks for "the last three American census reports and the geocoordinates of the petroleum deposits near the Mariana Trench [once, for 20 minutes]". The other side was unwilling to give it.)

Italian vaccination numbers and a classified seismic summary of the 2009 earthquake.

Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.c...episode=s01e03
  #111  
Old 03-16-2018, 08:35 AM
Horatius Horatius is offline
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The main deviation is the flu pandemic in the Prime universe 20 years ago but not the Alpha. The death of half a billion people 20 years ago would have a profound effect on society.


And that explains most of the technology differences. They had a major motivation to put a lot more money into biotech research, and due to the economic effects of the plague, likely didn't have much left over for things like smart phone development.
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  #112  
Old 03-17-2018, 09:19 PM
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And that explains most of the technology differences. They had a major motivation to put a lot more money into biotech research, and due to the economic effects of the plague, likely didn't have much left over for things like smart phone development.
That's what I figured too. A plague is a hell of a research motivator.

The only thing that bothers me is the bad guys' motive. So far, we haven't seen any proof that Earth Prime was responsible for the outbreak. Are they really just a bunch of deluded terrorists? If they're so highly positioned, why don't they find the decision makers instead of mass murder?

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  #113  
Old 03-17-2018, 09:31 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Either you're confused or I am, because Earth Prime (where the badass Howard comes from) suffered the bird flu outbreak, while Earth Alpha (where the initial, more mild-mannered Howard comes from) did not. And the conspirators in Earth Prime, who were running the school to develop moles, blamed Earth Alpha for the outbreak. By the way, we have not been given any reason to believe the bird flu outbreak was deliberately caused by the other side. And in fact, we in the real world have had multiple bird flu outbreaks but have been lucky so far that none have risen to that level.

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  #114  
Old 03-18-2018, 03:58 AM
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One amusing thing to think about: consider the tunnel underneath the Office of Interchange building. Suppose it runs north and south, for purposes of discussion. If you cross it from north to south, you come out on the south side of the building on the Other Side. If you then circle around to the north side, go downstairs, and once again cross the border in the same direction (going south), you end up back in the world where you started! Each side needs to man both ends of the tunnel (both north and south), but you can't reach one from the other without going upstairs and all the way around.

Also, if two people crossed at the same time, starting from the same world, in opposite directions, they wouldn't meet each other (there are really two tunnels, just like there are two of everything else). Similarly, the people entering the Interface rooms probably think they are facing other workers in the same building (I assume someone takes pains to keep the two groups separate), but they're not. I wonder what they tell the cleaning staff...
  #115  
Old 03-18-2018, 05:38 PM
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Toward the middle of Episode 9, I was finding the show a little tiresome. Particularly the lengthy scenes with Quayle and his wife.

But what an ending! The bad guys won! I thought the moles were going to unleash some kind of plague, but they killed everybody in the building. Maybe they wanted to destroy the interface between the worlds to make sure that we can't harm their world again.
  #116  
Old 03-18-2018, 07:39 PM
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Yes, whatever their mission was, the terrorists definitely succeeded in shutting down organized crossings for at least a little while, even if they didn't blow up the whole building. And someone could still release the virus.

Regarding my last post, I suppose they would or could have set things up so that there is only one border crossing to maintain, in the sense that you might walk from dining room A into kitchen B, or from kitchen B back into dining room A, while the door between kitchen A and dining room B stays locked.
  #117  
Old 03-19-2018, 06:51 AM
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I had been thinking that it would probably be best to fill the crossing point with concrete or bricks, but then I began to wonder, what would happen if you tried? would the concrete/bricks just constantly disappear into the other side? To seal it off, would you need cooperation from both sides?
  #118  
Old 03-19-2018, 07:00 AM
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Never mind that whosie-there decided to collapse and die right at the crossing. That's going to bring up a lot of diplomatic issues since it's a neutral zone.

(I cant remember the character's name)

And wow -- the finale is next week. I can't see this wrapping up neatly. I wonder if there will be another season?

As somebody upthread mentioned, there have been times I've been losing interest in this story. For me, it's been difficult keeping track (except for the Howards) of who is who's counterpart and all the interplay going on.
  #119  
Old 03-19-2018, 07:22 AM
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I wonder if there will be another season?
Yes. According to Wikipedia, they started off with an order for two 10-episodes seasons.
  #120  
Old 03-19-2018, 08:26 AM
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Toward the middle of Episode 9, I was finding the show a little tiresome. Particularly the lengthy scenes with Quayle and his wife.

But what an ending! The bad guys won! I thought the moles were going to unleash some kind of plague, but they killed everybody in the building. Maybe they wanted to destroy the interface between the worlds to make sure that we can't harm their world again.
I had flashbacks to the terrorists sneaking in and shooting up the American embassy in Pakistan in Homeland.

I'm still not sure that I understand the motivation for the attack, though, unless it's just to put a serious damper in Alpha's intelligence operations. Those people running the school made tremendous commitments in time and effort in raising and preparing their operatives. There still has to be something way bigger at stake.

Good episode.
  #121  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:07 AM
Horatius Horatius is offline
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But what an ending! The bad guys won!

But did they win, though? We still don't know exactly what their plan is/was, so it's hard to say how close they were to completion.


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I thought the moles were going to unleash some kind of plague, but they killed everybody in the building.

But they didn't kill everyone in the building. In fact, it seemed to me that they were actually being selective in who they shot, passing up a chance to shoot one person to go after another. The woman literally walked right past Toby Siegler on her way out of the office, and didn't bother to even try to shoot him. How much of this was just random violence, and how much was targeted assassinations?

And what was up with the one guy snorting something that looked like drugs before they left to infiltrate the HQ building? They made a point of showing that, but there was no (obvious) pay off. I thought at the time this might have been him deliberately infecting himself with something, but then the plan seemed to involve them trying to open the doors to the other side, for some reason.

Here's a thought: maybe he deliberately infected himself, then tried to get over to the other side, knowing that they would do some sort of tox screening on him. They'll find the exact strain of the virus that killed so many of their people, leading them to conclude that it really was engineered by the Alpha universe as a weapon. The Fanatics already believe this, but maybe they're trying to convince everyone else on their side, so they can finally engage in open warfare.
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  #122  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:33 AM
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Am I the only one thinking that his goal was to die on the border? The way he was acting earlier, compared to the other two, made me think he knew it was a suicide mission. We know from the earlier episodes that only one person is allowed to cross the border at a time, and housekeeping said not to get him because he was on the border. Maybe his body being left there screws up the nature of the crossing itself.
  #123  
Old 03-19-2018, 10:20 PM
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Here's a thought: maybe he deliberately infected himself, then tried to get over to the other side, knowing that they would do some sort of tox screening on him. They'll find the exact strain of the virus that killed so many of their people, leading them to conclude that it really was engineered by the Alpha universe as a weapon. The Fanatics already believe this, but maybe they're trying to convince everyone else on their side, so they can finally engage in open warfare.
If he wanted to infect himself, I think he'd inject himself with a serum instead of snorting powder. I assumed the drugs were meant to get him into the mindset for killing, similar to soldiers taking amphetamines.

I wonder if the killers transmitted a message expressing guilt for having caused the flu outbreak on the other side. That could launch a war.

At first, I wondered why they spared Fancher. Then it occurred to me that they replaced his daughter, so he and Quayle need to live.
  #124  
Old 03-20-2018, 06:50 AM
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Part 2 is the season finale. This episode was Part 1.

If this isn't renewed I'm going to be very upset. As confusing as the story has been for me thus far, it's also very addicting in a way. I can't explain it.
  #125  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:09 AM
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Part 2 is the season finale. This episode was Part 1.

If this isn't renewed I'm going to be very upset. As confusing as the story has been for me thus far, it's also very addicting in a way. I can't explain it.
They've already started production on Season 2.
  #126  
Old 03-20-2018, 10:30 AM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Am I the only one thinking that his goal was to die on the border? The way he was acting earlier, compared to the other two, made me think he knew it was a suicide mission. We know from the earlier episodes that only one person is allowed to cross the border at a time, and housekeeping said not to get him because he was on the border. Maybe his body being left there screws up the nature of the crossing itself.
I think you are correct. The goal was clearly to die on the border crossing and there are clearly implications. Whether they are political or technical, we don't know yet. (We can't touch him now. "Can't" or "won't"? Whatever. Pick one.)

They were clearly targeting specific individuals and not others.

Clearly all these years of planning and preparation had to be for something much larger than just shooting up an office.

"All out war" doesn't really seem practical either. How would that work, given that there is a single bottleneck for going between worlds? Most likely the end goal would have to be "make it all public" or "shut it all down".



The whole Indigo School plan doesn't make sense IMHO. They are starting with the kids when they are very young. How do they know in 10 to 15 years those kid's "other" will be in a position where it's worthwhile to replace them? They lucked out with Clare in that Clare Alpha is the daughter of the OI Director of Diplomacy and was engaged to a rising star in OI while Clare Prime was orphaned by the superplague. But how often is that going to happen? What good does it do to replace someone who grows up to be some low-level nobody in some nothing job?
  #127  
Old 03-20-2018, 11:24 AM
Horatius Horatius is offline
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I think you are correct. The goal was clearly to die on the border crossing and there are clearly implications.

I'm not so sure about that. They put in a lot of effort to ensure they were better armed than anyone else in the building, and the only reason they got killed is because Howard et al. had figured out at least part of their plan. If their plan all along was to die, how would that have worked if they hadn't been found out?

I think the dying was a last minute improvisation.


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"All out war" doesn't really seem practical either. How would that work, given that there is a single bottleneck for going between worlds? Most likely the end goal would have to be "make it all public" or "shut it all down".

But notice what the guy was doing in the control room, with the keys to the various doors limiting access to the portal. He was opening every one, and then breaking off the keys in the locks, so as to hinder attempts to close them again.

There's an old military rule I recall reading about: the best way to attack a bridge is from both ends at once.

The portal is their bridge, and if they can achieve control of both ends, they can send through as many people as they want, just as fast as they can run through the hallway. Who knows how many shock troops The School Faction has available?

It's an interesting military problem: How do you contain a bridgehead in which the opposing forces have a literally impregnable staging/fallback position? You can't bomb their rear areas, you have no advance warning of what they're sending, and their bridgehead is in a building that was designed to be as close to absolutely secure as possible.
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  #128  
Old 03-20-2018, 12:49 PM
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The whole Indigo School plan doesn't make sense IMHO. They are starting with the kids when they are very young. How do they know in 10 to 15 years those kid's "other" will be in a position where it's worthwhile to replace them? They lucked out with Clare in that Clare Alpha is the daughter of the OI Director of Diplomacy and was engaged to a rising star in OI while Clare Prime was orphaned by the superplague. But how often is that going to happen? What good does it do to replace someone who grows up to be some low-level nobody in some nothing job?
There's going to be some luck involved but not quite what you describeI don't think. She wasn't engaged to a rising star, his star only rose because she was engaged to him - at least partially. And we are dealing with a ruthless organization, we don't need to assume all the kids were conveniently already orphans. You could make some educated guesses about who is on a useful career path or might be in a useful family and tailor your end game to fit your good guesses.
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:55 PM
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I imagine there are a good amount of kids who just never crossover, just because it doesn't work out well. Or some kids who cross over early and then get a job in a position they need. Some don't even need the full intensity of training that Claire got. The three shooters were only out in public for a few hours.

I wonder if some of the adults we saw at school were kids who never crossed for some reason or another.
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Old 03-20-2018, 12:58 PM
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And you can still make use of "nobodies". They can run safe houses, set bombs, deliver messages, etc.
  #131  
Old 03-20-2018, 01:32 PM
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I'm not so sure about that. They put in a lot of effort to ensure they were better armed than anyone else in the building, and the only reason they got killed is because Howard et al. had figured out at least part of their plan. If their plan all along was to die, how would that have worked if they hadn't been found out?

I think the dying was a last minute improvisation.
I think they had to assume that at some point they would be overrun by red shirted guards. He very clearly made sure he was on the border line when he died. If it wasn't critical to the story, he could just have easily died upstairs.



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But notice what the guy was doing in the control room, with the keys to the various doors limiting access to the portal. He was opening every one, and then breaking off the keys in the locks, so as to hinder attempts to close them again.
I wasn't really sure what they were doing.


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There's an old military rule I recall reading about: the best way to attack a bridge is from both ends at once.
Yes, I remember Robert Redford saying something like that in "A Bridge Too Far".
  #132  
Old 03-20-2018, 02:55 PM
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I think they had to assume that at some point they would be overrun by red shirted guards. He very clearly made sure he was on the border line when he died. If it wasn't critical to the story, he could just have easily died upstairs.
I took it as more he was trying to kill a ton of people and when he got shot, instead of being captured he was trying to make it back to his own side. That he died on the boarder wasn't what he was looking for, it's just what happened.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:10 PM
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There's going to be some luck involved but not quite what you describeI don't think. She wasn't engaged to a rising star, his star only rose because she was engaged to him - at least partially. And we are dealing with a ruthless organization, we don't need to assume all the kids were conveniently already orphans. You could make some educated guesses about who is on a useful career path or might be in a useful family and tailor your end game to fit your good guesses.
It raises a question of how much infiltration they've done on the Alpha side. Rather than hoping for the best, they might steer things on this side to their advantage.

For example, Clare Alpha was probably unnoticed until Clare Prime was enrolled in the school. School administrators let this side know who their students were, then operatives on this side found their counterpart. If possible, they build a profile and synchronize lives and injuries. On the Alpha side, operatives may help steer Clare towards a position where she may be useful. The can seek friendship, make introductions, open doors, offer jobs - the law of averages says they should be able to recruit enough people to the office to make the body switch plan practical.

In any case, I think the Prime world would try to direct the potential candidates based on who they have in the school rather than hoping for luck.

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  #134  
Old 03-26-2018, 09:12 PM
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Well that's an interesting question. If you are starting with two exact copies of the same exact universe, would they behave in the same exact way? Or is there some inherent degree of randomness that, given the same exact conditions, could still result in slightly different outcomes?

The show seems to propose that there would be slight differences and they would propagate over time. ie Emily Prime gives birth to a child while Emily Alpha miscarries. Or Apple Alpha funds research on the iPhone while Apple Prime sticks to PCs. Or if Gore won the election instead of George Bush. Or 9/11 was stopped in one universe but not the other.

The main deviation is the flu pandemic in the Prime universe 20 years ago but not the Alpha. The death of half a billion people 20 years ago would have a profound effect on society.
I would absolutely expect the two worlds to begin diverging, and probably in dramatic ways. Society is a complex system, and complex systems feature nonlinear responses and high sensitivity to initial conditions. Take that flu - in one universe, a change as small as a flu carrier deciding not to go to a party full of overseas guests could change the world dramatically. In one world, Steve Jobs might have just chanced across a friend who offered him a job in another industry, while in the other he looked in the other direction while walking and didn't see the friend. So one side gets iPhones and the other doesn't, and the billions that would have gone to Apple go instead somewhere else, creating entire new industries.

We like to think the world is predictable and the future is a single path. In fact, it's a random walk and utterly unknowable. That fact alone guarantees that the two sides would immediately start to diverge.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:19 PM
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Just watched Episode 10. So no one did anything about the guy on the border. Just left him to die.

Pope's gone and Clare/Peter are still with us. Too bad. Always wanted to learn more about Pope.
  #136  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:38 PM
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Just watched Episode 10. So no one did anything about the guy on the border. Just left him to die.

Pope's gone and Clare/Peter are still with us. Too bad. Always wanted to learn more about Pope.
I assume there’s a Pope counterpart in our world. If I had to guess, I’d say he’s part of management. In any case, the “plan” is in play so I suspect next season will have more background, and support from familiars on this side
  #137  
Old 04-01-2018, 11:59 PM
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Just watched Episode 10. So no one did anything about the guy on the border. Just left him to die.
I assumed this was an obvious allusion to Peter Fechter and others.
  #138  
Old 04-02-2018, 08:51 AM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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The New York Times has a Q&A with the creator and showrunner. Among other things, he suggests that freeze-framing during the scenes set in the tunnel and in the conference rooms during the meeting with "Management" will be rewarding.

I haven't tried it yet but if anyone does so, please let me know what you find.

BTW, that meeting with "Management" was weird. I was wondering if "Management" was deformed somehow in the experiment that created the crossing, and that's why we never see him/her.
  #139  
Old 04-02-2018, 09:25 AM
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iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
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Redditors are theorizing that Management/4th Floor is a single entity leading both sides -- perhaps the original scientists who duplicated the world by accident weren't duplicated themselves, and they were able to set themselves up in a way to influence both sides simultaneously. Notice that they had the exact same projector setup, and the long pauses may have been time for them to confer and respond to both conferences at the same time.
  #140  
Old 04-03-2018, 08:13 PM
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Redditors are theorizing that Management/4th Floor is a single entity leading both sides -- perhaps the original scientists who duplicated the world by accident weren't duplicated themselves, and they were able to set themselves up in a way to influence both sides simultaneously. Notice that they had the exact same projector setup, and the long pauses may have been time for them to confer and respond to both conferences at the same time.
I'm pretty sure it's this:

"Management"
  #141  
Old 04-04-2018, 06:45 AM
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Redditors are theorizing that Management/4th Floor is a single entity leading both sides -- perhaps the original scientists who duplicated the world by accident weren't duplicated themselves, and they were able to set themselves up in a way to influence both sides simultaneously. Notice that they had the exact same projector setup, and the long pauses may have been time for them to confer and respond to both conferences at the same time.
My husband came up with a similar theory without the physical 4th floor. When he saw the identical projector/earphone setup he quipped, "The people responsible for the duplication are all part of the same entity and I'm betting those responsible don't have counterparts. Look. even Management has their own duplicate."
  #142  
Old 04-04-2018, 09:50 PM
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There was something even more strange about 'management'. The voices didn't sound normal in their headsets. Either aliens, the parent universe of the two split off and that device allos them to communicate across universes, or something.

I was confused by Emily constantly referring to 'our' side with the others. They are all from the original universe, but that Emily was supposed to be from the other side. So why were they all treating her like she was one of them? Is she a double agent? Or is she actually the original Emily and the two Emilies swapped sides just like the Howards, only the other Emily was hit by a car after she came through? But then didn't we see her sidekick in the room show up at Pope's place after Howard killed him? Or was that his counterpart?

I love this show, but it can get twisty. Lose your attention for a few minutes and you can be completely lost.
  #143  
Old 04-04-2018, 10:42 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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The showrunner says in the Q&A I previously mentioned that the "second season focuses in large part on the history and origins of Management." So we might learn why the weirdness around those scenes in the two conference rooms.

(BTW, everyone here is calling the devices that were placed on the desks projectors, but I assumed they were actually cameras, so Management could see everything in the rooms.)
  #144  
Old 12-04-2018, 10:02 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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Reviving this thread to let everyone know (in case you were unaware) that the second season of this show starts on Starz on Sunday, December 9, at 9pm (right after Outlander). I'm looking forward to it, although I'm surprised they're starting a new season now. Most shows are either taking a mid-season break or aren't starting their new season until after the new year.
  #145  
Old 12-11-2018, 08:51 AM
SlackerInc SlackerInc is offline
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I’m only on episode 3 of the first season, so I’m going to post without reading the thread because I want to vent. The Starz app (which otherwise seems pretty good) blurbs “Catch up on Season 2 now!” given that S2 just started. But when you actually follow that link to do so (or watch the S1 episodes without following the link, for that matter), each episode has a spoileriffic preview for S2! WTF, Starz, WTF.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 12-11-2018 at 08:53 AM.
  #146  
Old 12-11-2018, 04:11 PM
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I've started watching Season 2. I guess I'll hold my thoughts for a week or so.
  #147  
Old 12-25-2018, 12:38 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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About 40 minutes into the first episode of season 2 I found myself thoroughly confused, so I stopped the recording and (over the next 10 days) binged the entire first season via On Demand. I watched the original run back in March, but had forgotten so much the season 2 premiere was just gibberish.

I'm now caught up on the first 3 episodes of season 2, and while I love this show to death, I have to call shenanigans on a couple aspects of the premise and last season's plot:

1) There is massive security regarding the tunnel, and only 1 person at a time, and you need a visa, and blah blah blah. So what the hell is interface? There are like 30 private stalls with just glass separating the two universes. I'm sure it's very strong glass, but still. That seems like a massive security hole for people in charge of the border. If you wanted to mount an unauthorized crossing by force, you'd ignore the tunnel and head straight for interface.

1a) So, yeah, what's the deal with the tunnel? If interface really is separated by an inches-thick pane of reinforced bullet-proof plexiglass (or whatever), the 100-foot tunnel seems like nothing but an affectation. It's worth noting that the first season very strongly implied that when we see Howard Alpha using the tunnel to cross in the middle of the season, that was all new to him. As in, he didn't use a long tunnel in his interface days. So it stands to reason the other side doesn't have a tunnel for interface either. So you don't need a tunnel to get within inches of the other universe.

2) The school performed some seriously miraculous prediction to place those sleeper agents. The team was a woman and two guys. Of the two guys, the one who died in the crossing worked in the mail room. How long could he have worked there? Let's say a few years, so a few years ago Indigo recruited his Prime, fine, I'm on board. The second guy we don't really see on our side; maybe a cubicle drone? Same deal.

But the woman specifically told Clare how much of an honor it was to meet her, and that she was in the school but a year behind Clare. Her Alpha counterpart was an executive assistant to the head of strategy. (She got his coffee.) Uh, yeah, way to predict your secretary counterpart would strike gold on the 1 in a million chance of scoring a high security secretary gig in a decade or two. That goes way beyond straining credibility.

Much more logical would have been to replace your ordinary counterparts and then apply for those high security positions. But we know from the show that they just came over, and their Alpha versions already had those jobs and in fact Baldwin hadn't even killed them yet. Which brings me to...

2a) Why all the training with the school again? For Clare it makes sense, but for the woman who crossed and shot up the building, she maybe spoke 20 sentences (19 of them off screen) during the entire time she was pretending to be her Alpha...she replaced her that morning. A lifetime of schooling to play that role seems like monumental overkill. Or, rather, a tremendous, extravagant, and pointless waste of resources.


Having said all that, I really do love this show.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 12-25-2018 at 12:41 AM.
  #148  
Old 12-25-2018, 08:58 AM
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Shit, this started again already? I hope i recorded it.
  #149  
Old 12-25-2018, 10:24 AM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I believe three episodes of the second season have already aired but will probably still be available via the On Demand service of your cable company.
  #150  
Old 12-25-2018, 02:54 PM
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1a) So, yeah, what's the deal with the tunnel? If interface really is separated by an inches-thick pane of reinforced bullet-proof plexiglass (or whatever), the 100-foot tunnel seems like nothing but an affectation. It's worth noting that the first season very strongly implied that when we see Howard Alpha using the tunnel to cross in the middle of the season, that was all new to him. As in, he didn't use a long tunnel in his interface days. So it stands to reason the other side doesn't have a tunnel for interface either. So you don't need a tunnel to get within inches of the other universe.
I thought the tunnel was just supposed to be an atmospheric version of Checkpoint Charlie. Note the uneven, precarious floor and weird seismic noises, representing the shifting relations between the two sides. As you point out, there is no tunnel on the Interface floor. Interestingly, in the basement tunnel right where the border line is painted on the floor, on the walls you can see some warped tiles and smashed equipment, so I guess the story is that the lab where the fateful experiment was conducted ("if anyone knows what they did, they're not telling") was there in the basement.
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