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  #101  
Old 04-30-2018, 06:37 AM
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I don't think I've heard an audience as unhappy at the end of the movie since I saw The VVitch.
The audience in my showing was silent too, but not unhappy, I think. Just in a state of shock.
  #102  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:35 AM
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I can only speak for myself, but my silence was because I hated it.
  #103  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:49 AM
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I enjoyed it, and it went where I anticipated it would go, having read the Infinity Gauntlet series some time ago. As far as a crossover event, it was well done and a solid first half. The real question is can they sell the reset in a satisfying way? Looks like its up to Captain Marvel.

My one issue: Thanos is shown as reasoned. He's taking a Malthusian approach to over population. But he's The Mad Titan. His whole raison d'genocide in the comics is because Dude is Crazy(TM). He worships Death and such.

I know there is an official Comics term for this - how Good Guys and Bad Guys fit into different categories. I think they moved Thanos from "Chaotic Evil" over to "Structured Evil" or something.

He was calm when I was expecting a bit more crazy.
  #104  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:05 AM
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I enjoyed it, and it went where I anticipated it would go, having read the Infinity Gauntlet series some time ago. As far as a crossover event, it was well done and a solid first half. The real question is can they sell the reset in a satisfying way? Looks like its up to Captain Marvel.

My one issue: Thanos is shown as reasoned. He's taking a Malthusian approach to over population. But he's The Mad Titan. His whole raison d'genocide in the comics is because Dude is Crazy(TM). He worships Death and such.

I know there is an official Comics term for this - how Good Guys and Bad Guys fit into different categories. I think they moved Thanos from "Chaotic Evil" over to "Structured Evil" or something.

He was calm when I was expecting a bit more crazy.
Thanos is the textbook case of a villain who's convinced he's the hero of the story.
  #105  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:34 AM
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Thanos is the textbook case of a villain who's convinced he's the hero of the story.
Sure, that's cool. I don't think that's my point.

I found it - see this Wiki entry on Dungeons and Dragons: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignm...ns_%26_Dragons)

************
Most versions of the game feature a system in which players make two choices for characters. One is the character's views on "law" vs "chaos", the other on "good" vs "evil". The two axes allow for nine alignments in combination.[1][2] These nine alignments can be shown in a grid, as follows:

Lawful good <--> Neutral good <--> Chaotic good
Lawful neutral <--> (True) neutral <--> Chaotic neutral
Lawful evil <--> Neutral evil <--> Chaotic evil
*****************

It feels like Thanos was moved from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Evil. But what the heck do I know??

Last edited by WordMan; 04-30-2018 at 08:35 AM.
  #106  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:44 AM
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Well, I don't read comics, but I've been playing D&D since "elf" was a character class, and I agree that Thanos as he appears in the film is clearly Lawful Evil.

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  #107  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:45 AM
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I like the Gamora-in-the-Soul-Stone idea. And yeah, the crowd in my theater gave a sad, "NO!" when the credits started.
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  #108  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:50 AM
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It feels like Thanos was moved from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Evil. But what the heck do I know??
The guy is literally omnipotent and he thinks the way to solve the universes overpopulation problem is to kill 50% of the people. He thinks this is a great solution and people will be thankful to him when it is done. He is absolutely batshit crazy. Just because he acts like he is being rational does not mean he is in fact rational. We've just been conditioned to expect "crazy" to look like the Joker.
  #109  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:03 AM
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I wonder if there was any point to Thor getting a new eye besides the film people just deciding they didn't want Hemsworth in an eye patch any longer. I'm not looking for a huge plot-turning revelation but, aside from a butt joke, it felt like "Okay, Ragnarok is over. Reset!"

On top of the "50% isn't going to change anything for long" issues, the stinger makes the point that having 50% of your population just go "poof" is going to be catastrophic in other ways. Missing drivers, airline pilots, nuclear plant workers, a collapse of government, etc. Thanks, Thanos!

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  #110  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:12 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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Well, I don't read comics, but I've been playing D&D since "elf" was a character class, and I agree that Thanos as he appears in the film is clearly Lawful Evil.
Mmm. I disagree. It's not that Thanos - as presented in the movie - is Evil. It's that he doesn't care. If he could advance his cause - balancing the universe - without wiping out half of all sentient life, he would. He just doesn't see a path that includes that.

Lawful Neutral. Believes in rules and patterns, but doesn't take others into account when operating within those rules and patterns.

Also, for a moment, he certainly didn't wipe out 50% of all life. As my oldest pointed out, we didn't see trees and squirrels and such evaporating. Thanos just took his shot at sentient life. And who the hell knows what happened to the viruses and bacteria and such.

Also, what happened to Thanos at the end there? Thor's wound on him looked pretty mortal. Is he dying at the end? Will he recover? What's with the Japanese arch and such?
  #111  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:13 AM
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Oh, and I would consider Thanos' D&D alignment to be Neutral Evil. He believes in a need for balance (which he repeats over and over) between sentient life and the universe's resources and that the best way to bring that balance is through acts of violence, theft and oppression (taking the stones by force and then murdering half the population).

As others noted, there's better ways to encourage that balance but he's Neutral Evil, not Neutral Good or True Neutral. Balance is his goal and evil is his hammer to achieve it.
  #112  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:34 AM
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Also, what happened to Thanos at the end there? Thor's wound on him looked pretty mortal. Is he dying at the end? Will he recover? What's with the Japanese arch and such?
I had a thought about that, too. Thanos said "you should have gone for the head!" Perhaps there will be some big cosmic do-over, and Thor will do just that.
  #113  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:06 AM
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it would have been ironic if Thanos himself dusted - due to his 'random' selection of who goes /stays.
  #114  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:58 AM
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I donít go to MCU movies to see great acting (although itís usually good acting). PTSD Thor speaking with Rocket was a great bit of acting.
  #115  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:58 AM
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it would have been ironic if Thanos himself dusted - due to his 'random' selection of who goes /stays.
I'm sure the gauntlet had some provisions in it like "don't kill the one making the orders", or Thanos himself said "errbody but me"

Saw it this weekend and thought it was a helluva ballsy move to end the movie like that. It took 19 movies but Marvel finally has it's Empire Strikes Back ending. Although you can add me to the list of people who know how the real world works (contracts and sequels and such) so the ending is a bit less of a shock.

Spiderman's death was truly heartbreaking. I chalked the length of his dusting up to the fact that he was in his suit still. He could feel himself dusting away, but the suit kept it from happening instantly, so he was scared. He's just a kid you know.

The thing I loved most about the first Avengers movie was the way Joss handled all the characters and how real their interactions felt. They were very true-to-character. I feel the screenwriters did that here as well. Each character interaction felt very real to me and I applaud them for that.

Anyone else think it was kinda creepy watching Elizabeth Olsen (29) and Paul Bettany (46) have a relationship? On paper their ages aren't HUGE, but Liz looks like she's 22 and Paul looked about 50.

I'm excited about the next movie, but I am very curious as to where they're going to go with it. This is the culmination of over a decade's worth of storytelling and I fear they blew their load on THIS one and the next one will come up short. That being said, gotta trust the process.
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  #116  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:04 AM
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Anyone else think it was kinda creepy watching Elizabeth Olsen (29) and Paul Bettany (46) have a relationship? On paper their ages aren't HUGE, but Liz looks like she's 22 and Paul looked about 50.
Vision himself is like three years old though. So now who's the monster??
  #117  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:08 AM
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Actually, all of the characters who've had sequels announced died. Black Panther, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, the Guardians - all dead. Even Bucky Barnes and Sam Wilson, who everyone assumes are the maiin candidates for taking the mantle of Captain America after Chris Evans leave, both died. And who survived? Steve Rogers, Tony Stark, Bruce Banner - all characters played by actors whose contracts end after the next Avengers film.

I find that very reassuring. It means that the story isn't over yet.

Oh, and I'd bet money that Marvel will release a trailer for Avengers 4 about six weeks from now that will strongly hint that most or all of the characters who disintegrated at the end will be coming back to life.
I was thinking about how the heck they're going to promote the next movie. If half of the cast is gone, then only half of the cast can promote the movie without spoiling who lives and who dies? If Zoe Saldana, Chadwick Boseman, and Tom Holland start promoting Infinity Wars 2, it pretty much says that they're coming back. While we may expect that, does the studio want that? Most (all?) of the dead actors are already signed on to the sequel... so...
  #118  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:08 AM
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PTSD Thor speaking with Rocket was a great bit of acting.
I definitely agree. For a character who's traditionally been kind of a meathead, and who was considered by a lot of fans to be among the less-interesting MCU leads, his last two films (Ragnarok and Infinity War) have given him some surprising depth, and shown that Hemsworth is a pretty darned good actor, IMO.
  #119  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:23 AM
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Anyone else think it was kinda creepy watching Elizabeth Olsen (29) and Paul Bettany (46) have a relationship? On paper their ages aren't HUGE, but Liz looks like she's 22 and Paul looked about 50.
Speaking of which, is this the first film to indicate that Wanda and Vision were dating? I mean, I know that's comic book canon, but the last I saw of them movie-wise (in Civil War) there was, at most, some very mild flirting going on. I haven't seen all the Marvel films, so I was just wondering if this has been established elsewhere, or this is the introduction of the relationship and we're just supposed to go with it.

I spent the drive home from the movie updating my wife on who all the various characters were. Best question: Was the insect girl The Wasp? No, honey, that was Mantis.

Last edited by MrAtoz; 04-30-2018 at 11:25 AM.
  #120  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:26 AM
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Oh, and I would consider Thanos' D&D alignment to be Neutral Evil. He believes in a need for balance (which he repeats over and over) between sentient life and the universe's resources and that the best way to bring that balance is through acts of violence, theft and oppression (taking the stones by force and then murdering half the population).

As others noted, there's better ways to encourage that balance but he's Neutral Evil, not Neutral Good or True Neutral. Balance is his goal and evil is his hammer to achieve it.
Okay - let's go with that: in the movie, he is Neutral Evil. I would still argue that in the comics he is Chaotic Evil. So that still represents the shift I am trying to articulate. The Thanos I think of is prone to outbursts and twitchy; maybe not Joker Chaotic, but Petulant Child Chaotic - ???

Again, not trying to slam the movie, just trying to articulate a key difference to my perception of Thanos to see if I was the only one.
  #121  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:28 AM
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Oh man, my daughter both cried and was pissed. She loves Tom Holland, so the horribly tragic way Spidey dusted really got to her, and no amount of me explaining the difference between dead and mostly dead would help. On the way home, I tried to explain Capt Marvel, Dr. Strange's foreshadowing and everything, but she was just mad. Thanos is a very scary villain because he doesn't see himself as evil - he absolutely believes he is doing what is best (and so do his followers).

To touch on a lighter point, I laughed pretty hard when the GoTG met Thor and the whole "angel and pirate" and Star-lord being very jealous storyline.
  #122  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:28 AM
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Again, not trying to slam the movie, just trying to articulate a key difference to my perception of Thanos to see if I was the only one.
FWIW, I'm 100% unfamiliar with Thanos from the comic. I'm just a D&D dork who saw an alignment discussion
  #123  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:29 AM
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I spent the drive home from the movie updating my wife on who all the various characters were. Best question: Was the insect girl The Wasp? No, honey, that was Mantis.
"There's an Ant-Man and a Spider-Man?"
  #124  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:31 AM
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My favorite was Peter knowing a lot earlier than the others, because of his spider sense, that he was fucked.
Tom Holland has a very good "scared kid" voice. Having once heard that voice from one of my own kids, I would be a very happy person if he never did it again.
  #125  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:36 AM
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Thanos said "you should have gone for the head!" Perhaps there will be some big cosmic do-over, and Thor will do just that.
There was also an odd little line from Thanos about a little cut he got to the cheek: something like "All that effort for just a tiny drop of blood." Felt like some foreshadowing going on there.

I thought for a moment that there was going to be some kind of poison or tailored virus, but if there are timey-wimey shenanigans in store, they will definitely revisit that fight blow-by-blow.

Last edited by Galwegian; 04-30-2018 at 11:39 AM.
  #126  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:36 AM
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Tom Holland has a very good "scared kid" voice. Having once heard that voice from one of my own kids, I would be a very happy person if he never did it again.
Jesus Christ yes. That's the scene that I can't kick out of my brain. I think I'll be skipping that scene in any future watching of Infinity War, or I'll have to immediately watch the scene in Avengers 4 where he's resurrected and immediately kicks Thanos' wrinkled mauve ass (I presume).
  #127  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:37 AM
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I can't wait to see how they explain Captain Marvel's absence from all of this. Not just this, but any previous Avengers-type event. Sokovia, New York, etc. Where has she been, and why did Fury wait until NOW to send her a distress message? Was she all like, "8 or higher, bro. 8 or higher." And Fury, in his one-eyed wisdom was like, "Crazy ass robot killing machine? Nope, only a 7."

Glad those answers will come (in some degree) before next year.
  #128  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:46 AM
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There was also an odd little line from Thanos about a little cut he got to the cheek: something like "All that effort for just a tiny drop of blood." Felt like some foreshadowing going on there.

I thought for a moment that there was going to be some kind of poison or tailored virus, but if there are timey-wimey shenanigans in store, they will definitely revisit that fight blow-by-blow.
Yeah, I thought that Stark had released some of the suit's nano-thingies into Thanos that would do something but, nope. Stark just got beat up instead.
  #129  
Old 04-30-2018, 11:52 AM
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Speaking of which, is this the first film to indicate that Wanda and Vision were dating? I mean, I know that's comic book canon, but the last I saw of them movie-wise (in Civil War) there was, at most, some very mild flirting going on. I haven't seen all the Marvel films, so I was just wondering if this has been established elsewhere, or this is the introduction of the relationship and we're just supposed to go with it.
Well, I'd say the previous flirting and affection were the introduction of the relationship (and if I wasn't aware of the relationship in the comics, I probably would not have read anything at all into their interactions in Civil Way), but yes the newest movie is the first we've seen of them actually pursuing a romantic connection.
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  #130  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:00 PM
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Overall, I liked it. Solid movie that did the most it could with what it had. Stuffing THAT many characters with that much star power in it was awe inspiring. A couple minor quibbles.

It rode the "is this live action, or a cartoon?" line VERY hard.

The action was way too frenetic and close up. I had a hard time making out what was going on. This was especially bad in the initial Vison/Scarlet Witch vs the Thanos henchmen scene, and probably worse because it was set at night.

The ending. I don't mind a movie with a cliffhanger. However, due to the fact that if you know anything, you know there is going to be an undoing of much of what happened, this didn't feel like a movie with a cliffhanger, it felt like half a movie. I don't like half movies. I don't know how they could have done the ending differently, but I wish they did.

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  #131  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:23 PM
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Well, I'd say the previous flirting and affection were the introduction of the relationship (and if I wasn't aware of the relationship in the comics, I probably would not have read anything at all into their interactions in Civil Way), but yes the newest movie is the first we've seen of them actually pursuing a romantic connection.
Am I misremembering, or weren't Vision and Scarlet Witch living together in CA: Civil War? I remember a scene with the two in the kitchen where maybe Vision was doing some cooking? And Vision was wearing a smart tan (?) sweater, looking especially domestic?
  #132  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:30 PM
Sir T-Cups Sir T-Cups is offline
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Am I misremembering, or weren't Vision and Scarlet Witch living together in CA: Civil War? I remember a scene with the two in the kitchen where maybe Vision was doing some cooking? And Vision was wearing a smart tan (?) sweater, looking especially domestic?
That was in their nifty, new hideout, not someone's house.
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  #133  
Old 04-30-2018, 12:55 PM
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I'm thinking this is the perfect way to bring in the Great Lakes Avengers and, more importantly, Squirrel Girl. Squirrel Girl will single-handedly defeat Thanos and push the reset button.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel is going to be the solution. But I still like my idea better.
  #134  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:00 PM
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Loved it, and I had to allow myself to feel the deaths and not meta-game about knowing that there is no way they can afford to kill some of these franchise characters.

Someone please tell me, however, why Stark couldn't just cut off Thanos' arm when he and Spidey were trying to pull of the Gauntlet?
  #135  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:08 PM
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Someone please tell me, however, why Stark couldn't just cut off Thanos' arm when he and Spidey were trying to pull of the Gauntlet?
WAG / fanwank: None of Stark's weaponry would have been sufficiently powerful to do so quickly. For all the firepower that Tony threw at Thanos during their fight, all he netted was a scratch on the Titan's cheek.
  #136  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:09 PM
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WAG / fanwank: None of Stark's weaponry would have been sufficiently powerful to do so quickly. For all the firepower that Tony threw at Thanos during their fight, all he netted was a scratch on the Titan's cheek.
Also they were trying to keep him asleep.
  #137  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:32 PM
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it would have been ironic if Thanos himself dusted - due to his 'random' selection of who goes /stays.
I think Thanos survived his finger-snap for the same reason Rocket was the only non-founding Avenger to survive: Thanos doesn't actually want to exterminate any species, and both he and Rocket are the only little living examples of their race. The kill percentage of any population of 1 gets automatically rounded down to zero.
  #138  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:49 PM
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Someone please tell me, however, why Stark couldn't just cut off Thanos' arm when he and Spidey were trying to pull of the Gauntlet?
Unless he cut it off with one instant slice, Thanos would have woke up and been back in the fight (as seen when Starlord hits him in the face).

For all they did to get him to that point (dropping a building on him, explosions, etc) he was barely scratched so cutting his arm off effortlessly was pretty unlikely.
  #139  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:50 PM
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I think Thanos survived his finger-snap for the same reason Rocket was the only non-founding Avenger to survive: Thanos doesn't actually want to exterminate any species, and both he and Rocket are the only little living examples of their race. The kill percentage of any population of 1 gets automatically rounded down to zero.
Oooo I like this.
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  #140  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:51 PM
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At the end of the movie, Steve Rogers is sitting on the ground next to Vision's corpse. A few seconds goes by and Steve says "Oh no..." and then the scene immediately cuts to Thanos on his farm remembering Gamora and enjoying the sunset. Someone suggested that this was Steve realizing he was dusting, but they are leaving it for the sequel.

Did anybody else notice this particular scene/vocalization? I'm going to see the movie again soon, but was wondering if you guys picked up on this at all.
  #141  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:53 PM
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Oooo I like this.
Wasn't Groot also the last of his species?
  #142  
Old 04-30-2018, 01:56 PM
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I think Thanos survived his finger-snap for the same reason Rocket was the only non-founding Avenger to survive: Thanos doesn't actually want to exterminate any species, and both he and Rocket are the only little living examples of their race. The kill percentage of any population of 1 gets automatically rounded down to zero.
So why did Star Lord/Peter Quill bite it? He is the only hybrid of Ego and Humanity.

Are you suggesting that Ego has other children he didn't murder yet that survived? Or that there are other living Ego entities that didn't die off during the end of GotG:II?
  #143  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:16 PM
Greathouse Greathouse is offline
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Originally Posted by Serenata67 View Post
So why did Star Lord/Peter Quill bite it? He is the only hybrid of Ego and Humanity.

Are you suggesting that Ego has other children he didn't murder yet that survived? Or that there are other living Ego entities that didn't die off during the end of GotG:II?
Aren't Benicio Del Toro and Jeff Goldblum the same thing that Ego was?
  #144  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:22 PM
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kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is online now
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Originally Posted by D_Odds View Post
Wasn't Groot also the last of his species?
Possibly so -- I believe that this is the case in the comic continuity, but I'm not sure if it's ever been established in the MCU continuity. But, as I noted upthread, Groot isn't entirely gone, and the end of GotG illustrated that it doesn't take much of Groot to grow a new Groot.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 04-30-2018 at 02:23 PM.
  #145  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:24 PM
gytalf2000 gytalf2000 is offline
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I'm thinking this is the perfect way to bring in the Great Lakes Avengers and, more importantly, Squirrel Girl. Squirrel Girl will single-handedly defeat Thanos and push the reset button.

Yeah, yeah, I know. Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel is going to be the solution. But I still like my idea better.

Your idea sounds like fun!
  #146  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:30 PM
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muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
Possibly so -- I believe that this is the case in the comic continuity, but I'm not sure if it's ever been established in the MCU continuity. But, as I noted upthread, Groot isn't entirely gone, and the end of GotG illustrated that it doesn't take much of Groot to grow a new Groot.
They taught the Groot language in Asgard ("It's an elective."), so it seems reasonable there's a whole species of Groots.
  #147  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:38 PM
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kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is online now
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Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
They taught the Groot language in Asgard ("It's an elective."), so it seems reasonable there's a whole species of Groots.
Or, at least, there *was*. Thor also noted that he's 1500 years old, so it's entirely possible that Groot's species was wiped out at some point between Thor's schooling and the present day.
  #148  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:45 PM
asterion asterion is online now
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Your idea sounds like fun!
I just want an official MCU Quin-Jetta. Imagine the marketing tie-in with VW.
  #149  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:46 PM
Serenata67 Serenata67 is offline
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Originally Posted by Greathouse View Post
Aren't Benicio Del Toro and Jeff Goldblum the same thing that Ego was?
They're all elders... but I always understood the "elders of the universe" to be more like the Jedi council. Many species are represented, but they are not necessarily the same species.

According to Wikipedia (which, I know, can be wrong), "The Elders of the Universe are the last survivors of otherwise extinct races" [bolding mine]

So yes, they're elders. But no, they're not the same species. So according to the previous hypothesis (of not wanting to exterminate the last member of any given species), there are three possible meanings.

1. Ego still exists. (not likely)
2. Other offspring of Ego still exist.
3. When Ego stopped existing, Peter became pure human somehow and not some Ego-human hybrid.

...or is there some other meaning?

Last edited by Serenata67; 04-30-2018 at 02:48 PM. Reason: fixed formatting
  #150  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:51 PM
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Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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Someone please tell me, however, why Stark couldn't just cut off Thanos' arm when he and Spidey were trying to pull of the Gauntlet?
After seeing Wong slice off the other dude's hand with his sorceror's portal, I'm a little annoyed Strange never tried the same trick with Thanos. Honestly, those portals seem a little OP. Feels like most of the fights should have ended in 2 seconds with Strange dropping a portal on someone and closing it halfway through their body.

Last edited by Inner Stickler; 04-30-2018 at 02:52 PM.
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