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  #151  
Old 04-30-2018, 02:54 PM
Quimby Quimby is offline
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I think Thanos survived his finger-snap for the same reason Rocket was the only non-founding Avenger to survive: Thanos doesn't actually want to exterminate any species, and both he and Rocket are the only little living examples of their race. The kill percentage of any population of 1 gets automatically rounded down to zero.
I think you are giving him too much credit. He's no hero. He would ensure his sick plan would be no threat to himself the same way that Magneto was willing to sacrifice Rogue in the first X Men movie when he could have just sacrificed himself. It calls bullshit on all their high minded delusional talk.
  #152  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:00 PM
Greathouse Greathouse is offline
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They're all elders... but I always understood the "elders of the universe" to be more like the Jedi council. Many species are represented, but they are not necessarily the same species.

According to Wikipedia (which, I know, can be wrong), "The Elders of the Universe are the last survivors of otherwise extinct races" [bolding mine]

So yes, they're elders. But no, they're not the same species. So according to the previous hypothesis (of not wanting to exterminate the last member of any given species), there are three possible meanings.

1. Ego still exists. (not likely)
2. Other offspring of Ego still exist.
3. When Ego stopped existing, Peter became pure human somehow and not some Ego-human hybrid.

...or is there some other meaning?
Gotcha. Thanks for the info.
  #153  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:05 PM
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After seeing Wong slice off the other dude's hand with his sorceror's portal, I'm a little annoyed Strange never tried the same trick with Thanos. Honestly, those portals seem a little OP. Feels like most of the fights should have ended in 2 seconds with Strange dropping a portal on someone and closing it halfway through their body.
Yeah, I think that that's a tactic that can only be allowed to work when it fits the plot. It reminds me of "three ways you can kill someone instantly with the Stargate" (spoilered because it's topic drift):

SPOILER:
1. Open the Stargate while someone is standing in front of it (the "wave" that comes out as the gate activates will annihilate them).
2. Stick half of your opponent's body through an open Stargate's event horizon, and then shut down the Stargate, which effectively cuts the victim in half, a la the Wong portal trick.
3. If someone is attempting to arrive at the gate located at Stargate Command, don't open the iris. Anything coming through won't be able to be reformed, and will be destroyed upon hitting the iris.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 04-30-2018 at 03:05 PM.
  #154  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:12 PM
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Yeah, I think that that's a tactic that can only be allowed to work when it fits the plot. It reminds me of "three ways you can kill someone instantly with the Stargate" (spoilered because it's topic drift)
How come Dr Strange doesn't just crash a spaceship at light speed into Thanos?
  #155  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:27 PM
Sir T-Cups Sir T-Cups is offline
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At the end of the movie, Steve Rogers is sitting on the ground next to Vision's corpse. A few seconds goes by and Steve says "Oh no..." and then the scene immediately cuts to Thanos on his farm remembering Gamora and enjoying the sunset. Someone suggested that this was Steve realizing he was dusting, but they are leaving it for the sequel.

Did anybody else notice this particular scene/vocalization? I'm going to see the movie again soon, but was wondering if you guys picked up on this at all.
I noticed this too, but I thought he said "Oh God" because he was realizing what was happening to everyone else.

You bring up a point of mine though: Not even Captain America in this movie.
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  #156  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:43 PM
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As far as Thanos alignment goes I'd say he's definitely lawful evil. Every person whos life was traded for an infinity stone was spared, Nebula Stark and Thor.
  #157  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:46 PM
Maggie the Ocelot Maggie the Ocelot is offline
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The attack on Wakanda...was it just me or did those things-that-there-were-many-of look sort of...Venom-ish? I pointed it out to Husband and he agreed, but they may or may not be related. I know that there's an upcoming Venom movie, but it's from Sony so it may or may not relate.
  #158  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:46 PM
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As far as Thanos alignment goes I'd say he's definitely lawful evil. Every person whos life was traded for an infinity stone was spared, Nebula Stark and Thor.
I mean, Thor was left in the cold of space. He wasn't necessarily spared.
  #159  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:54 PM
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In D&D alignment terms Thanos is definitely Lawful Evil.

In Magic the Gathering Color terms he is White Black
  #160  
Old 04-30-2018, 03:58 PM
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After seeing Wong slice off the other dude's hand with his sorceror's portal, I'm a little annoyed Strange never tried the same trick with Thanos. Honestly, those portals seem a little OP. Feels like most of the fights should have ended in 2 seconds with Strange dropping a portal on someone and closing it halfway through their body.
or atleast keep the other guy off his toes while he re-appears.

'head shot'
  #161  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:13 PM
Skara_Brae Skara_Brae is offline
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So why did Star Lord/Peter Quill bite it? He is the only hybrid of Ego and Humanity.

Are you suggesting that Ego has other children he didn't murder yet that survived? Or that there are other living Ego entities that didn't die off during the end of GotG:II?
Wasn’t Mantis the last of her kind as well?
  #162  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:19 PM
Serenata67 Serenata67 is offline
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Wasn’t Mantis the last of her kind as well?
I believe so... We're poking holes all over this theory...
  #163  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:20 PM
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Was Drax the last of his, or was it just his family that was killed?
  #164  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:22 PM
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Question, since we're here:

Near the beginning of the movie, Dr. Strange shoots this spell at the round space ship. It appears to dissipate and do nothing. Strange then gives Tony a wink.

What was that about? I thought that was gonna do something later but unless I missed it, it didn't play into the plot.
  #165  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:23 PM
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Question, since we're here:

Near the beginning of the movie, Dr. Strange shoots this spell at the round space ship. It appears to dissipate and do nothing. Strange then gives Tony a wink.
I saw it the other way. Strange tries to bust out some hocus pocus on the ship and it does squat. Stark gives a "Well, anyway..." look.
  #166  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:28 PM
enalzi enalzi is offline
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I thought Strange stopped the wind blowing everything around. The wink was "look what I can do."
  #167  
Old 04-30-2018, 04:42 PM
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In D&D alignment terms Thanos is definitely Lawful Evil.

In Magic the Gathering Color terms he is White Black
But wasn’t comics Thanos aligned as Chaotic Evil?

It’s no big deal for the movie, but there was a big awareness leading up to A:IW’s opening that both Death and Adam Warlock would not be portrayed from the Infinity Gauntlet comics, so knowledgeable folks wouldn’t be put off by those big changes. Okay, cool - but changing Thanos’s alignment is at least a big of a deal, in terms of varying from comics canon.

Isn’t it?
  #168  
Old 04-30-2018, 05:11 PM
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So why did Star Lord/Peter Quill bite it? He is the only hybrid of Ego and Humanity.

Are you suggesting that Ego has other children he didn't murder yet that survived? Or that there are other living Ego entities that didn't die off during the end of GotG:II?
I’d forgotten about Peter when I wrote that, but even so, I think it holds up. It seems virtually certain that he's not Ego's only remaining child. The dude had, literally, thousands of them, and was so bad at keeping track of them that he had to hire pirates to go around the galaxy collecting them for him.

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Wasn't Groot also the last of his species?
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Originally Posted by Skara_Brae View Post
Wasn’t Mantis the last of her kind as well?
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Was Drax the last of his, or was it just his family that was killed?
No, on all three. Drax's wife and daughter were murdered, not his whole species. Mantis was an orphan when Ego found her on her homeworld. And we literally see Groot reproduce on screen, and all it takes is some clippings and potting soil. If Groot was the last of his species, it's only because he has a Giant Panda level disinterest in maintaining his own species.

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I believe so... We're poking holes all over this theory...
Ha! You wish!

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I think you are giving him too much credit. He's no hero. He would ensure his sick plan would be no threat to himself the same way that Magneto was willing to sacrifice Rogue in the first X Men movie when he could have just sacrificed himself. It calls bullshit on all their high minded delusional talk.
I don't know what credit you think I'm giving him by pointing out that his plan was to only murder 50% of the members of every species in the universe, not 100%, and I'm genuinely baffled that you think I'm somehow arguing that Thanos was heroic. Yeah, no shit he's not a hero. He murdered half the universe.
  #169  
Old 04-30-2018, 05:58 PM
TwoCarrotSnowman TwoCarrotSnowman is offline
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He murdered half the universe.
Well... everyone needs a hobby.
  #170  
Old 04-30-2018, 06:25 PM
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The attack on Wakanda...was it just me or did those things-that-there-were-many-of look sort of...Venom-ish? I pointed it out to Husband and he agreed, but they may or may not be related. I know that there's an upcoming Venom movie, but it's from Sony so it may or may not relate.
Those are outriders. Other than a passing resemblance they are not related to Venom's symbiote.
  #171  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:03 PM
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Proxima Midnight was seriously Carrie Coon? holy shit.
  #172  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:12 PM
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I thought Strange stopped the wind blowing everything around. The wink was "look what I can do."
Now I need to rewatch it. I thought it was Strange getting rid of all the bystanders somehow, because he does it right after Stark says they need to clear the area and establish a perimeter. Kinda like the beginning of Doctor Strange when the Ancient One moves the street fight into some sort of pocket dimension.
  #173  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:16 PM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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I saw this yesterday.

Not as impressed as others seem to be. Thanos had variable power. He could defeat the Hulk, but others stood against him far longer than they should have been able to. Even StarLord ran around and shot him with effect, as though his gun should be able to hurt someone who can take a Hulk-sized pounding. To be fair, Spidey and Quill avoided direct confrontations.

It seems like only The Hulk, Thor, Dr. Strange, and Scarlet Witch should have been able to credibly stand against him. Maybe Vision , but I'm not really as familiar with his power, and he spent the entire movie having his ass handed to him by Thanos' flunkies. Iron Man should have been able to fight and distract him since he can stand up to the Hulk to a degree, and I assume the nanotech suit is as good or better than the Hulkbuster. I wouldn't think he could defeat Thanos, though, unless he could get the gauntlet away, or lure him into a nuclear blast or something similarly tricky. He lacks the power to seriously hurt him.

It seems like Dr Strange should have been able to do more, as others have said above. There was a lack of creativity with his character, focusing mainly on hitting Thanos with energy attacks. I REALLY liked it when he multiplied and a hundred Strange's tried to bind Thanos, as that was one of the more creative things Strange tried. I guess the problem with a character like Strange is that he's so damned powerful that, if he actually put thought into his attacks, or planned out some nasty surprises in advance to hammer/trap/banish a very powerful enemy, no one could stand against him. Seems like the writers depend on him being stupid to make a story last more than five minutes.
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  #174  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:24 PM
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The difference in power levels depended on whether he was using the stones or not. He took a pounding from Hulk until he used the power stone. Thanos sees himself as the good guy and at least tries to understand why other good guys are fighting him, so he mostly holds back unless he really has too. And Dr. Strange DID use his most powerful power, seeing the future. After that every single thing he did was what needed to be done in order to follow the one and only path to victory.
  #175  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:33 PM
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Too bad they don't have the rights to FF. Haven't Galactus and Doom both defeated Thanos? Galactus would have motivation, since Thanos is reducing his food supply.
  #176  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:38 PM
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Too bad they don't have the rights to FF. Haven't Galactus and Doom both defeated Thanos? Galactus would have motivation, since Thanos is reducing his food supply.
huh?......Galactus eats planets.... not people. People are like seasame seeds on the bun. He's interested in the burger.
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  #177  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:38 PM
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The attack on Wakanda...was it just me or did those things-that-there-were-many-of look sort of...Venom-ish? I pointed it out to Husband and he agreed, but they may or may not be related. I know that there's an upcoming Venom movie, but it's from Sony so it may or may not relate.
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Too bad they don't have the rights to FF. Haven't Galactus and Doom both defeated Thanos? Galactus would have motivation, since Thanos is reducing his food supply.
Galactus can eat any planet he finds sutable regardless of whether it has life or not. The problem is he doesn't care if it has life or not.
  #178  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:46 PM
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huh?......Galactus eats planets.... not people. People are like seasame seeds on the bun. He's interested in the burger.
You're saying Galactic doesn't like sesame seeds? I get what you're saying, but if a planet with life on it doesn't satisfy him more, why would he bother with earth when there are 4 larger planets in our solar system? Or would be be afraid the Gas giants would make him fart too much?
  #179  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:51 PM
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If I heard it correctly, it was Hulka Hulka Burnin' Fudge, thankyouverymuch. And wasn't Tony's Ben & Jerry's flavor Stark Raving Nuts?
Stark Raving Hazelnuts, actually.

I just got back from watching it, and I'm still processing my reaction. I thought it was great! It struck me in the car heading home that all of this must be part of Dr. Strange's one possibility of victory, particularly with his last words to Tony Stark. I hadn't put together how many times Thanos got a stone because of someone trying to save someone else, but having had that made clear, it clearly has to have some ultimate meaning.

I loved Fury's last moment cutting him off right in the middle of Samuel L. Jackson's favorite profanity. I also loved when Peter Quill said for everyone to put on their mean faces right before they arrived at the site of the Asgardian ship, and Mantis did her very best.
  #180  
Old 04-30-2018, 07:59 PM
Face Intentionally Left Blank Face Intentionally Left Blank is offline
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And Dr. Strange DID use his most powerful power, seeing the future. After that every single thing he did was what needed to be done in order to follow the one and only path to victory.
You know what? Fair enough. I don't understand why that path couldn't include cutting off Thanos' arm in a portal and dumping the gauntlet in his mansion, or in a black hole or neutron star or some void, but that's a fair reason.

Still think someone with Dr Strange's power and knowledge should bring more on the banishment/disintegration/unmaking/beatdown front, but there you go.
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  #181  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:19 PM
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huh?......Galactus eats planets.... not people. People are like seasame seeds on the bun. He's interested in the burger.
Galactus feeds* on the "life force" of inhabited planets. The people (and animals, plants, and (I assume) microbial life) are very much the burger to him. The actual planet is more like the cafeteria tray the burger is served on.

*Well, "fed." He's currently doing a stint as Galactus the Lifebringer, and is running around restoring life to dead planets. I suspect it's just a phase.
  #182  
Old 04-30-2018, 08:57 PM
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If I heard it correctly, it was Hulka Hulka Burnin' Fudge, thankyouverymuch. And wasn't Tony's Ben & Jerry's flavor Stark Raving Nuts?
What would be in those flavors? I propose...

Hulka Hulka Burning Fudge: cinnamon ice cream with a fudge swirl and cinnamon graham cracker bits.

Stark Raving Hazelnuts: hazelnut ice cream with chocolate covered hazelnut bits and a caramel swirl.
  #183  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:57 PM
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Still think someone with Dr Strange's power and knowledge should bring more on the banishment/disintegration/unmaking/beatdown front, but there you go.
Or just drop the dumb sonuvabitch into one of those portals and wait.

Loki: "I was falling for TWO hours!"

At a minimum, you buy time to think of a solution.

Or, because Thanos is a biped, Stark just approaches him from astern, hits him in the small of his back and lifts him into orbit. No biped and defend there - that we know of - and once in orbit just toss his ass into interstellar space. It'd be eons before he hit something and could get some purchase.
  #184  
Old 04-30-2018, 09:58 PM
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Or, hell, toss him into the Dark Dimension and tell him and Dormammu to get back to you when they've worked things out amongst themselves.
  #185  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:10 PM
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At the end of the movie, Steve Rogers is sitting on the ground next to Vision's corpse. A few seconds goes by and Steve says "Oh no..." and then the scene immediately cuts to Thanos on his farm remembering Gamora and enjoying the sunset. Someone suggested that this was Steve realizing he was dusting, but they are leaving it for the sequel.
I thought he said, "Oh, God."
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Old 04-30-2018, 10:22 PM
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I think the only thing that bugs me about the Marvel Cinematic Universe is how restricted it is. If I understand it correctly, it's because of how rights were sold, but it bugs me no end that, say, the mutants are completely left out. Imagine what Magneto could do to remove that glove. What would happen if Majyk dropped Thanos into Limbo using one of her teleport disks? Or the Inhumans. Put Bolt in front of the line in Wakanda and let him scream at the critters.

Yes, yes, I know. The focus here is the Avengers and the various heroes thereof, but dude, this is a Galactic-level threat (why isn't it a Universe-level threat? Why are all the Infinity Stones in ONE GALAXY?), you'd think they'd be recruiting anyone who had powers of any sort.
  #187  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:30 PM
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If that were the case, you'd really just want the Phoenix. She could just alter the Universe so the Gauntlet - or Thanos - never existed.
  #188  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:35 PM
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Couldn't Scarlet Witch(comic version) do the same thing?
  #189  
Old 04-30-2018, 10:37 PM
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Unclear, IMO.

Her powers have waxed and waned per the needs of plot. Her original powers were simply - as I recall - to affect probability. Now that's powerful as all hell, but I don't think the boundaries were ever fully explored.
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Old 04-30-2018, 10:43 PM
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And FYI: Ways to Defeat Thanos.
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Old 04-30-2018, 10:49 PM
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If that were the case, you'd really just want the Phoenix. She could just alter the Universe so the Gauntlet - or Thanos - never existed.
It has been a long, long time since I read X-Men, and I don't recall Phoenix having that power (which sounds a lot like what the Reality Infinity Stone's does, yes? no?). Also, which Phoenix, Jean or Rachel?
  #192  
Old 05-01-2018, 12:32 AM
Horatio Hellpop Horatio Hellpop is offline
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I don't have any skin in this disagreement, but your stance is a little odd. So here's a source (I'm not sure how you're defining "verifiable" for these purposes).
I checked with a source I consider verifiable, Mr. Jim Starlin. Only the Russo bros. would be more definitive, and I'm not in contact with them. I'd expect Starlin to be partisan to his original (comics) version, but his answer was less clear-cut "You’ll have to wait until the extended version on the DVD to find out. Still can’t say any more than that."
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:13 AM
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It has been a long, long time since I read X-Men, and I don't recall Phoenix having that power (which sounds a lot like what the Reality Infinity Stone's does, yes? no?). Also, which Phoenix, Jean or Rachel?
At her peak as Dark Phoenix, Jean Grey could consume suns and alter reality. Actually, Moira McTaggert's son Proteus could alter reality as well.
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  #194  
Old 05-01-2018, 03:34 AM
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The audience in my showing was silent too, but not unhappy, I think. Just in a state of shock.
Same here, though I was the only one in the theater. Personally, I would have just made everyone get up like they were ready to fight, then wisp the "chosen" ones right then and there, THE END. Ten minutes of "guess who's dying" seemed a little excessive to me, and I'm a glutton for those types of endings, a la The Departed. No exposition, no long goodbyes, just BANG BANG BANG everyone is dead, el fin.
  #195  
Old 05-01-2018, 03:38 AM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Or just drop the dumb sonuvabitch into one of those portals and wait.

Loki: "I was falling for TWO hours!"

At a minimum, you buy time to think of a solution.

Or, because Thanos is a biped, Stark just approaches him from astern, hits him in the small of his back and lifts him into orbit. No biped and defend there - that we know of - and once in orbit just toss his ass into interstellar space. It'd be eons before he hit something and could get some purchase.
Space Stone's teleportation says hello. Reality Stone's twisting of the world says goodbye. The only chance to stop Thanos is kill him or prevent him from closing the gauntlet. Everything else is just a distraction for him.
  #196  
Old 05-01-2018, 04:23 AM
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Half Man Half Wit Half Man Half Wit is offline
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So, I saw the film in a German dubbed version. When the Wakandans charged the Thanos mooks, the battle cry from Black Panther was 'Wakanda über alles'. Which I thought was a little, uh, inappropriate, since the Wakandans are the good guys, and the people who came up with that motto kinda weren't.

What was the battle cry in the English version? (It wasn't 'Wakanda first', was it?)
  #197  
Old 05-01-2018, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Half Man Half Wit View Post
So, I saw the film in a German dubbed version. When the Wakandans charged the Thanos mooks, the battle cry from Black Panther was 'Wakanda über alles'. Which I thought was a little, uh, inappropriate, since the Wakandans are the good guys, and the people who came up with that motto kinda weren't.

What was the battle cry in the English version? (It wasn't 'Wakanda first', was it?)
"Wakanda forever!"

And you really shouldn't watch dubbed movies. Were there no other options?
  #198  
Old 05-01-2018, 04:50 AM
galen ubal galen ubal is online now
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Originally Posted by Half Man Half Wit View Post
So, I saw the film in a German dubbed version. When the Wakandans charged the Thanos mooks, the battle cry from Black Panther was 'Wakanda über alles'. Which I thought was a little, uh, inappropriate, since the Wakandans are the good guys, and the people who came up with that motto kinda weren't.

What was the battle cry in the English version? (It wasn't 'Wakanda first', was it?)
"Wakanda forever!", as I recall. Heard it in Black Panther, as well.
  #199  
Old 05-01-2018, 06:03 AM
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So yes, they're elders. But no, they're not the same species. So according to the previous hypothesis (of not wanting to exterminate the last member of any given species), there are three possible meanings.

1. Ego still exists. (not likely)
2. Other offspring of Ego still exist.
3. When Ego stopped existing, Peter became pure human somehow and not some Ego-human hybrid.

...or is there some other meaning?
They pretty much explicitly state that #3 is what happened when Ego died. Peter is a run of the mill Terran now as are all his living offspring.

So I saw it a few nights ago and just caught up on the thread. I'm not a comic book reader but I love deep diving on some wikis after these movies. Some random thoughts since most of you have covered the big stuff.

Didn't like that they killed off all the characters with sequels planned but none of the ones who's contracts are up. While I quickly realized that this would all be undone, I would have preferred a little more ambiguity on some of these guys. Let me spend a few days or months thinking that maybe this is how they end it with RDJ. I suppose 75% of A4 will be centered on the living characters so I guess they needed to maximize what they get out of those big names I guess.

I really liked the Black Order. These were some quality henchmen for a change. Ebony Maw was probably my favorite, and Proxima was great. Only complaint is that they weren't super clear on what their powers were.

WTF is with Vision? He's basically one of the most powerful Avengers and he has an Infinity Stone. Why the heck was he do useless in every fight? That really bugged me.

I read an article somewhere that made the case that the screenwriters really screwed up on Thanos. It basically said that his infatuation with Death from the comics was a better way to go. Specifically that Hela from Ragnarok was already perfectly set up to fill that role. I think that's a good point though I don't have all the background on the while Death plot. Would have been nice to bring Cate back anyways even if she's off screen most of the movie.

I read another speculation that the Quantum Realm/Microverse would somehow be critical to resolving this. Which would explain why Ant Man and Wasp is happening next. We'll see.

I'm betting Heimdall, Loki and Gamora are properly dead.

I keep seeing people wanting more crossovers. I really don't want that. The Xmen world and the MCU are both already sprawling. It's amazing the Avengers has managed to stay pretty enjoyable with 20+ characters to service. Adding a bunch of mutants would jump the shark.

All in all I had fun.
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  #200  
Old 05-01-2018, 06:18 AM
Omniscient Omniscient is offline
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One last thing. Probably the most eyerolley part for me is when they have these human or mostly human characters going toe to toe with Gods or bring basically indestructible.

As far as I know Scarlett Witch is just a human with magic powers. How can she fall 20 stories though a glass roof and be unscathed? At least show her creating a force field or something.

Black Widow is a good character, but she's a human spy. She can fight Cap or Bucky and survive but not a being like Proxima. For that matter Cap is a roided up dude. He can't stand up to Thanos who made light work of Hulk. Did they even give Cap some sweet Wakanda nano armor or is he just wearing black leather? If not that last fight scene is even sillier.

And Starlord's silly little blasters against Thanos? Come on. At least the way he fought against Iron Man made some sense.

I know this is not a new problem, but you'd think they'd be able to match up their opponents by weight class a bit better.
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