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  #451  
Old 01-02-2019, 10:39 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Was there a Dalek fleet to summon in the first place? In my opinion the Doctor didn't know, but she wasn't going to take a chance.
Good point.
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Is U.N.I.T. disbanded? I think they have gone deep underground and taken all the alien/other-dimensional artifacts with them. There is no way Kate Stewart or Petronella Osgood would let such secrets be handed over to just anybody.
"Pending review", IIRC, but you'd expect them to secure as much of the dangerous stuff as much as possible against political numptyism.
  #452  
Old 01-02-2019, 10:57 AM
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Baron Greenback Baron Greenback is offline
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There is no way Kate Stewart or Petronella Osgood would let such secrets be handed over to just anybody.
The Black Archive is below the Tower of London, iirc? The current reigning descendant of Queen Victoria will keep it safe if so.
  #453  
Old 01-02-2019, 11:23 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is online now
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Furthermore, when the Doctor volunteered to take the Dalek to the fleet, she did so in a goddamn time machine. Why not drop it off with the fleet just in time for one of the many times they got slaughtered (such as when Rose disintegrates the entire fleet in "The Parting of the Ways")? That would have been more sensible, interesting and fitting than the "selective space vacuum" approach.
But does that solve the problem? As far as I can tell, the only reason our heroes don’t just Ex-Ter-Min-Ate that Dalek is because it’s on that guy’s back; taking both of them to a time of imminent slaughter will — yes, sure, granted, kill the Dalek; but won’t it also kill the guy it’s piloting?

I don’t see that it can readily shed that guy while still in the TARDIS; it can then be killed straightaway like I was just saying. So, what, just watch as it puppeteers that guy into walking off the TARDIS and then — uh, hope? But if you suction it off of him and into space, you’ve killed two birds with one stone.

[David Tennant]

Waaaaall, killed one but not the other, t’be precise; sort of the point, really.

[/David Tennant]
  #454  
Old 01-02-2019, 11:24 AM
Dendarii Dame Dendarii Dame is offline
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I mostly enjoyed the episode, but you'd think people would know what a Dalek looked like by now.
  #455  
Old 01-02-2019, 01:44 PM
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The thing that keeps bugging me is that none of the Muggles seem to have any idea of what the TARDIS or the Doctor are. Okay, she looks different now, but the big blue box has been in the news enough during Ten, Eleven, and Twelve's runs that the average person (especially in the UK) should recognize it. Did I miss a mass amnesia spell or something?
This part is very inconsistent. It's seemed to me that they're very much "sneaking around" all through 13's tenure so far, when the fact that there are aliens and such has been well-known in past seasons (for instance, with Voyage of the Damned, where everyone (in Britain, anyway) KNOWS that Christmas is dangerous because of alien invasions). Not only is the Doctor known to the public, he's been instrumental in taking down governments ("Don't you think she looks tired?") and contributing to Earth's official defenses (the whole invasion arc in Capaldi's last season). But it's like the Doctor, the TARDIS and the Companions are totally anonymous and unknown this time around.
  #456  
Old 01-02-2019, 02:33 PM
Andy L Andy L is offline
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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Why not drop it off with the fleet just in time for one of the many times they got slaughtered (such as when Rose disintegrates the entire fleet in "The Parting of the Ways")?
She dropped him off at Skaro, I think, just after the Seventh Doctor's boobytrapped Hand of Omega went off (hence supernova).
  #457  
Old 01-02-2019, 02:37 PM
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Heartily agreed. From the illustrations it looks like they managed to get it tied down, but HOW? Show me the berserkers, Chibnall!

Anyway, for a Dalek episode that was pretty damned good, I thought. Proper body horror too - reminiscent of Sarah-Jane and Donna having alien lifeforms clinging to their backs.
The bit with Lin horrified in front of the mirror was pure horror, and bonus points for not sexing it up: her possession shown as vile, intrusive and terrifying, and the Dalek was a nasty slithery little shit for seeming to enjoy it. Mind you, now Lin is going to have to do a fair amount of explaining to Plod.
  #458  
Old 01-02-2019, 02:39 PM
Andy L Andy L is offline
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The bit with Lin horrified in front of the mirror was pure horror, and bonus points for not sexing it up: her possession shown as vile, intrusive and terrifying, and the Dalek was a nasty slithery little shit for seeming to enjoy it. Mind you, now Lin is going to have to do a fair amount of explaining to Plod.
That creepy smile Lin had when the police pulled her over seemed very much a Dalek smile.
  #459  
Old 01-02-2019, 02:48 PM
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Show me the berserkers, Chibnall!
I was gonna nitpick about berserkers being Danes rather than Saxons, but since Sheffield was later under the Danelaw and Jorvik is only an hour up the road, having Danes and Saxons set aside their differences to trash a Dalek would have been fucking awesome. Dropped the ball on that one, Chibnall.
  #460  
Old 01-02-2019, 03:51 PM
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I was gonna nitpick about berserkers being Danes rather than Saxons, but since Sheffield was later under the Danelaw and Jorvik is only an hour up the road, having Danes and Saxons set aside their differences to trash a Dalek would have been fucking awesome. Dropped the ball on that one, Chibnall.
It's literally in the script of the episode that various unlikely rivals grouped together to defeat the enemy!
  #461  
Old 01-02-2019, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
The bit with Lin horrified in front of the mirror was pure horror, and bonus points for not sexing it up: her possession shown as vile, intrusive and terrifying, and the Dalek was a nasty slithery little shit for seeming to enjoy it. Mind you, now Lin is going to have to do a fair amount of explaining to Plod.
Don't worry, Kate Stewart will sort it...oh hold on
  #462  
Old 01-02-2019, 03:56 PM
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That creepy smile Lin had when the police pulled her over seemed very much a Dalek smile.
The actress playing Lin was very impressive. For a brief moment I thought she and her archaeological paramour were being primed as new companions

Last edited by Baron Greenback; 01-02-2019 at 03:59 PM.
  #463  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:01 PM
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It's literally in the script of the episode that various unlikely rivals grouped together to defeat the enemy!
Sure, but cut out the angsting between Ryan and his Dad - and props to Tosin Cole, that was a tasty bit of acting; it just slowed the narrative right down - and play up the Saxon/Dane alliance more explicitly: that way you can have Squelchy bisected rather than trisected, bury his halves in Denmark and Yorkshire, and cut out that silly Pacific island/Siberia and Custodians stuff, which just got in the way.
  #464  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:08 PM
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Sure, but cut out the angsting between Ryan and his Dad - and props to Tosin Cole, that was a tasty bit of acting; it just slowed the narrative right down
Agree with this - that was poor writing all round really. Let's introduce a new character (and his Chekhov's Microwave), hope that anyone gives a shit, and then Ryan mentions his dyspraxia again!
  #465  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:17 PM
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I'm a simple man, I have simple tastes, and apparently among those is a desire to see a horde of axe-wielding men in wolfskins schooling a Dalek on a 9th Century battlefield. Any bit of narrative which stands in the way of this is extraneous and should be cut.
  #466  
Old 01-02-2019, 04:38 PM
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I'm a simple man, I have simple tastes, and apparently among those is a desire to see a horde of axe-wielding men in wolfskins schooling a Dalek on a 9th Century battlefield..
I...I...share your tastes. I've said it, it's out in the open now.

Wouldn't be wolfskins though - the ninth century had actual clothes (and bloody great axes, tbf)
  #467  
Old 01-02-2019, 06:37 PM
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Did anyone else start humming the theme music from the A-Team when the Dalek burst in in its new armored vehicle?



...no? Just me?

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Wouldn't be wolfskins though - the ninth century had actual clothes (and bloody great axes, tbf)
Doesn't mean they can't accessorize!
  #468  
Old 01-02-2019, 06:40 PM
Eyebrows 0f Doom Eyebrows 0f Doom is offline
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The actress playing Lin was very impressive. For a brief moment I thought she and her archaeological paramour were being primed as new companions
I recognized her as Barbara from Call the Midwife.
  #469  
Old 01-02-2019, 08:27 PM
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I recognized her as Barbara from Call the Midwife.
Thank you!
I knew I'd seen her somewhere before, but I couldn't place her.
  #470  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:44 PM
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Interesting midwifery facts:

In the episode The Tsuranga Conundrum, Graham meets a pregnant male and refers to watching Call The Midwife. The actor who played that pregnant man, Jack Shalloo, was in last week's episode of Call The Midwife. And, as mentioned, this week's Doctor Who starred Charlotte Ritchie who was a regular on Call The Midwife.
  #471  
Old 01-02-2019, 10:28 PM
Kimera757 Kimera757 is offline
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Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
I'm a simple man, I have simple tastes, and apparently among those is a desire to see a horde of axe-wielding men in wolfskins schooling a Dalek on a 9th Century battlefield. Any bit of narrative which stands in the way of this is extraneous and should be cut.
Fully agreed.

This is the best episode of the Thirteenth Doctor's run, with the possible exception of Rosa. Sadly, so many of the other episodes were lackluster.
  #472  
Old 01-03-2019, 12:46 AM
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I have a dream, a fond hope, an idle vellity, that some gifted writer will come along and write an episode that does for the Daleks what “World Enough And Time/The Doctor Falls” did for the Cybermen - makes them a horrifying, tragic menace. Alas, this episode wasn’t it. They’re just boring villains - one-note baddies who simply want to EX-TER-MIN-ATE! As bad as “Daleks In Manhattan” was, the half-human Dalek Sek was more interesting than the normal run.

They’re also kinda stupid. I guessed that when they found Lin, the Dalek was simply pretending that she’d gotten rid of him, and was planning on using her to capture the TARDIS while the Doctor was running around outside, looking for him. But no, go back to the usual “blow shit up while chanting ‘EXTERMINATE!’ M.O.”

The Brexit joke completely flew over my American head, but it reminded me that there are two characters that I really, really want to see interact with this Doctor: River Song and Kate Stewart. Please, Chibs, make this happen!
  #473  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:31 AM
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The Brexit joke completely flew over my American head, but it reminded me that there are two characters that I really, really want to see interact with this Doctor: River Song and Kate Stewart. Please, Chibs, make this happen!
Missy?
  #474  
Old 01-03-2019, 09:37 AM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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A rather disappointing effort in the New Year's episode, I thought. Yet another Dalek episode (possibly driven by legal requirements, as speculated elsewhere) which I could have done without, but at least this one managed to be menacing.
Not having read this speculation elsewhere, can someone clue me in on the possible legal requirements for having another Dalek episode?
  #475  
Old 01-03-2019, 09:56 AM
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Missy?
God, no.
  #476  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:50 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Not having read this speculation elsewhere, can someone clue me in on the possible legal requirements for having another Dalek episode?
On cursory googling it appears that the assertion that there is a contractual agreement between Terry Nation and the BBC that the Daleks must make an appearance every so often or else the BBC would lose the right to use them falls into the category of "persistent but unconfirmed rumor". Daleks have made at least an appearance (if not always a significant one) every season of the NuWho run but it is unclear whether this is due to requirement or just popular appeal.
  #477  
Old 01-03-2019, 02:17 PM
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God, no.
Hell, yes!
  #478  
Old 01-03-2019, 02:20 PM
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On cursory googling it appears that the assertion that there is a contractual agreement between Terry Nation and the BBC that the Daleks must make an appearance every so often or else the BBC would lose the right to use them falls into the category of "persistent but unconfirmed rumor". Daleks have made at least an appearance (if not always a significant one) every season of the NuWho run but it is unclear whether this is due to requirement or just popular appeal.
Yeah, it's the very long-running theory that Nation's estate owns the rights to the Daleks, not the BBC, and there's some sort of sanction that if the BBC don't use the Daleks regularly, then the right to use them at all will be withdrawn. I have my doubts about this.
  #479  
Old 01-03-2019, 04:41 PM
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I recognized her as Barbara from Call the Midwife.
She was also Melissa "Oregon" Shawcraft in Fresh Meat, which is where I recognized her from.
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  #480  
Old 01-04-2019, 05:33 PM
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It took me a few days to get to the New Year’s special, but I loved it! Easily the best Whittaker episode so far. That is to say, the one that felt the most like Doctor Who.

Whether it was written this way intentionally or not, it seemed to me that it took facing a Dalek for this particular regeneration to finally realize her identity and purpose, and for the first time I felt like she was THE DOCTOR. The scene featuring The Doctor and the Dalek, face to plunger - with no companions around – was perfect.

And it made me realize that it’s what the season needed more of. Yes, companions should be interesting, but this season has felt more about them and their journey than about the new Doctor herself. The balance has been off. This episode restored that balance, and I hope it can be maintained.
  #481  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:34 PM
Infovore Infovore is offline
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And it made me realize that it’s what the season needed more of. Yes, companions should be interesting, but this season has felt more about them and their journey than about the new Doctor herself. The balance has been off. This episode restored that balance, and I hope it can be maintained.
This. I still thought the episode had too many companions (heck, they added *more* pseudo-companions, with Ryan's dad and the two archaeologists) but it was nice to see the Doctor shine on her own.

It did bug me, though, when she had her "This planet is *protected*!" moment and it ended up not being by "Me, the Doctor!" but by "Me, the Doctor, and my bunch of friends!" I really hope they get rid of some of the companions in the next season, or at least fix it so she's only interacting with one of them at a time.
  #482  
Old 01-05-2019, 03:20 PM
Folacin Folacin is online now
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it reminded me that there are two characters that I really, really want to see interact with this Doctor: River Song and Kate Stewart. Please, Chibs, make this happen!
Bringing back River would really annoy the fan boys, unless it is the one in the computer/library.

Physical River had no knowledge of 13, and if I remember correctly she first met him on her 'last night'.

I would like to see Kate again, though.
  #483  
Old 01-05-2019, 05:46 PM
Wheelz Wheelz is offline
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Physical River had no knowledge of 13, and if I remember correctly she first met him on her 'last night'.
I imagine they could retcon this away somehow. I liked River, and I adore Alex Kingston. Though it would have to be a really outstanding script for me to get behind her appearing again.

Here’s a tangential question/thought about River Song: The gimmick, if you want to call it that, was that River and the Doctor experienced their relationship from opposite directions in time. It was an interesting conceit, and well executed.

But wouldn’t that be a relatively common issue to a time traveler? There have been a number of recurring characters over the years, yet unless I’m missing something, their interactions with the Doctor all seem to occur in the same order in each individual’s timeline. Are there other characters that have met the Doctor in non-linear order? Was it addressed why River should be different?
  #484  
Old 01-05-2019, 05:51 PM
Andy L Andy L is offline
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Are there other characters that have met the Doctor in non-linear order? Was it addressed why River should be different?
This happens but rarely in the Doctor Who universe. One example:

The forest-dwelling girl in "A Good Man Goes to War" remembered meeting the Doctor, but the Doctor didn't remember her, because it hadn't happened to him yet.
  #485  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:28 PM
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Sherrerd Sherrerd is online now
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This happens but rarely in the Doctor Who universe. One example:

The forest-dwelling girl in "A Good Man Goes to War" remembered meeting the Doctor, but the Doctor didn't remember her, because it hadn't happened to him yet.
That happened in "Blink," too, as I recall (with Sally Sparrow and the Doctor).
  #486  
Old 01-05-2019, 07:14 PM
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Are there other characters that have met the Doctor in non-linear order?
Canton Evrett Delaware III ("The Impossible Astronaut"/"Day of the Moon")
Sally Sparrow ("Blink")
Lorna Bucket ("A Good Man Goes to War") although that one was a bit ambiguous - it could be they HAD met before but the Doctor simply did not remember her

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Was it addressed why River should be different?
Aside from being his wife, assassin, a time traveler, and able to regenerate due to being conceived in the TARDIS? No.

Last edited by Broomstick; 01-05-2019 at 07:17 PM.
  #487  
Old 01-05-2019, 07:16 PM
Andy L Andy L is offline
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That happened in "Blink," too, as I recall (with Sally Sparrow and the Doctor).
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Canton Evrett Delaware III
Of course! Also back in "Battlefield" people the Doctor hadn't met yet recognized him as "Merlin" (and it wasn't a look-alike - the Doctor identified "Merlin's" handwriting as his own).
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