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  #151  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:08 PM
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They've sort of established that vortex manipulators are difficult to come by. Jack Harkness had one because he was a Time Agent. River Song got it from Dorium Maldovar who got it “fresh off the wrist of a handsome Time Agent." I don't think we've seen another one until now, at least not in the new series.
The baddie here had spent time in the prison River Song used to regularly escape from...
  #152  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:12 PM
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Speaking of River--the Doctor identifies Krasko as an ex-con because he has a "Stormcage identifier" on his wrist. But River also did time in the Stormcage and has no such mark that I recall, not even in the episodes that show her escaping from Stormcage. Did they change ID policies at some point?
  #153  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:39 PM
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Speaking of River--the Doctor identifies Krasko as an ex-con because he has a "Stormcage identifier" on his wrist. But River also did time in the Stormcage and has no such mark that I recall, not even in the episodes that show her escaping from Stormcage. Did they change ID policies at some point?
I fear that is asking a bit too much of Who continuity
  #154  
Old 10-22-2018, 06:52 PM
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Has anyone else noticed that the perception filter and the vortex manipulator are two things that originated in Jack Harkness / Torchwood stories? I wonder if we may not see a return...
  #155  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:36 PM
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Has anyone else noticed that the perception filter and the vortex manipulator are two things that originated in Jack Harkness / Torchwood stories? I wonder if we may not see a return...
I still haven't forgiven Jack. Even if The Doctor did.
  #156  
Old 10-22-2018, 07:37 PM
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Me, too. I expected the Doctor to have some major criticism of Ryan for doing that.

I also knew that he was going to do it. Why else have her give him that mini-tutorial on how the temporal displacement gun worked?

This episode worked better than I had hoped. They did avoid making the Doctor the force behind the Civil Rights Movement, and it wasn't "The Doctor and Rosa Parks team up to fight aliens" (something that often happens when the Doctor meets well-known historical figures). I liked that they acknowledged that Rosa Parks did not have an easy time of it after that--she and her husband both losing their jobs, etc.--and that it took an awfully long time before the country really began to honor her.

On another note, it probably doesn't mean anything terribly profound, but I notice that Graham consistently calls the Doctor "Doc," and she seems okay with it. Historically the Doctor hasn't much liked that nickname. To quote the First Doctor: "Kindly refrain from addressing me as 'Doc!'"
Good ep, but some clunky bits; as Mr Atoz pointed out, the Doctor telling Ryan how to use the timey-wimey gun might as well have had a big flashing arrow saying "Chekov's Temporal Displacement Weapon!!" over it. And the Uplifting Moment Of Virtue Rewarded at the end - when the Doctor and the Scoobies are watching the RL Rosa Parks being honored by President Clinton - felt like emotional junk food.

Some things did strain my suspension of belief; I live in Atlanta, the home of the civil rights movement, and am reasonably familiar with the history of the movement. But I had no idea of the name of the bus driver who confronted Ms. Parks. It strains credibility, a bit, that a British woman fifty years later would know that. Ryan thinking Rosa Parks was the first black woman to drive a bus sounds reasonable for a young man with, I have to assume, minimal exposure to the history of a foreign nation. (Albeit, he was in a class named for her.) I mean, how many Americans know what set off the Brixton race riots? I certainly don't.

That said, they did avoid the pitfalls of Mighty Whitey saves the day; as cringeworthy as a British writing team could have been tackling American racism, His Chibs et al did a pretty good job. Like Mr Atoz noted, they did a good job with noting that the Parks had a hard life, by hinting that she wasn't just a random seamstress but was involved in the civil rights movement (IIRC, she was a secretary for the Montgomery chapter of the NAACP), and by acknowledging both that the UK has problems with racism, and that nevertheless, things have gotten better.

The actors did a pretty good job, considering they were all British or South African. I was very impressed by Vinette Robinson, who played Ms. Parks. Her accent was very good. Most of them, in fact - I only spotted one misuse of "y'all"*, when James Clarke said "Y'all get out of my seat!" to Graham. But he could very easily have been addressing both Graham and Ryan. I have heard people pronounce "police" as "PO-lice", but only when they're emphasizing the word: "Git in the car, Delroy! They done called the PO-leese!" The racist cop would have more likely introduced himself as an officer of the "Munt-gumry p'leece".

Note to non-Southerners - using "y'all" as a singular pronoun is a dead giveaway that you ain't from 'round heah.
  #157  
Old 10-22-2018, 10:17 PM
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Anyone have any idea why this episode was shot in South Africa? Last week’s was shot in ... oh crap, I forget, but some interesting place in Europe, presumably for the needed barren vistas. But South Africa? Surely there are enough black actors in the UK that that’s not the reason. I’m baffled.
  #158  
Old 10-22-2018, 11:08 PM
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I'm typing this cold, no reading. I hope I am not the only one that thinks that was the best episode since the David Tennant & Russell T. Davies years. It was well done, well paced and so much more enjoyable than anything in the Moffat years.

OK, now reading other comments:

Oh good, most of you enjoyed it.
  #159  
Old 10-23-2018, 12:11 AM
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Anyone have any idea why this episode was shot in South Africa? Last week’s was shot in ... oh crap, I forget, but some interesting place in Europe, presumably for the needed barren vistas. But South Africa? Surely there are enough black actors in the UK that that’s not the reason. I’m baffled.
I thought the deadly alien planet episode was shot in South Africa.

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  #160  
Old 10-23-2018, 01:20 AM
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Speaking of River--the Doctor identifies Krasko as an ex-con because he has a "Stormcage identifier" on his wrist. But River also did time in the Stormcage and has no such mark that I recall, not even in the episodes that show her escaping from Stormcage. Did they change ID policies at some point?
Maybe it's more like a prison tattoo?
  #161  
Old 10-23-2018, 01:49 AM
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They've sort of established that vortex manipulators are difficult to come by. Jack Harkness had one because he was a Time Agent. River Song got it from Dorium Maldovar who got it “fresh off the wrist of a handsome Time Agent." I don't think we've seen another one until now, at least not in the new series.
Yes, but that's what they're jeopardizing by showing some random prisoner with a vortex manipulator---if it's hard to come by, it shouldn't show up in just anyone's hands (or on anyone's wrist, as the case may be). Hence, my hoping that he'll turn out to not be just anyone.
  #162  
Old 10-23-2018, 03:54 AM
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Didn't Alabama have anti-miscegenation laws at the time?
Of course they did. I am an idiot.

Raymond Parks
  #163  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:22 AM
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Even more hypocritical is the fact that, right before she gave Karl shit for pushing Tim Shaw off the crane, she revealed that she had transferred the DNA bombs into Tim Shaw, so that when he activated them, they detonated within his own body. Somehow that's okay, but knocking a guy who was trying to kill you off of a high place isn't.
For some of us, violence/force is only justified when someone is an actual threat to life and limb. Prior to the DNA bombs going off, Tim Shaw was a threat and his detonating the bombs made it clear he intended to kill. Once the bombs went off, though, he was incapacitated and therefore no longer a threat - therefore, violence was no longer justified against him. Tim Shaw wasn't killing anyone anymore when he was kicked off that crane.

Or so I interpreted it - but then, that happens to be my own moral code so it's easy for me to read that into the situation.
  #164  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:24 AM
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Are these goalposts an alien species? Because they sure seem to be moving, unlike normal ones.
Only when you don't look at them - they're Weeping Goalposts.
  #165  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:29 AM
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BTW, my fanwank is that, in-universe, it's called a sonic screwdriver not because it works with sonic waves, but because it makes a certain noise when working and has the general form factor of a screwdriver. The technology that makes that noise is called "sonic."
Calling it a "screwdriver" is a bit like calling the pocket computers people have that send messages, play music, cruise the internet, answer questions, navigate, and so forth "phones". Whether you call them "mobiles" or "cells" they aren't really "telephones" anymore, even if they can still perform that function among the many, many other functions they have.

So it's probably a historical remnant - the Time Lords (or maybe just the Doctor) kept adding new functions to what was originally a sort of screwdriver. Just like we kept adding more functions to telephones.
  #166  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:53 AM
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Thirteen uses the sonic as a kind of tricorder, she has a little screen she analyses with some of its uses. Eleven did the same with his, though Matt Smith improvised that as the model screwdriver he has doesn't contain a screen.

All other Doctors just used it as an unlocking tool, though for a very loose interpretation of "unlock".
  #167  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:55 AM
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Didn't Alabama have anti-miscegenation laws at the time?
Right, it did, which is why there were no people of mixed race... oh wait.

But seriously, those laws seemed to only apply to getting married, there was certainly plenty of cross-racial intercourse (voluntary and not) going on for centuries.

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I took the show's Mr Parks to be a light-skinned "colored" man. In real life, Raymond Parks had visible "colored" features.
^ This.

In real life Mr. Parks was a light-skinned man of mixed descent who, in that era, was still put in the "black" category.
  #168  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:56 AM
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Speaking of River--the Doctor identifies Krasko as an ex-con because he has a "Stormcage identifier" on his wrist. But River also did time in the Stormcage and has no such mark that I recall, not even in the episodes that show her escaping from Stormcage. Did they change ID policies at some point?
Or maybe it was a sort of prison gang tattoo that was trendy in Krasko's century of origin? Or century of incarceration?
  #169  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:19 AM
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Or maybe it was a sort of prison gang tattoo that was trendy in Krasko's century of origin? Or century of incarceration?
Also, IIRC River wasn't exactly a typical prisoner. Didn't the prison know that she was actually innocent?

Hmm. Now I'm pondering the comic potential of River running into the current Doctor. Might be worth a one-off just for that.
  #170  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:31 AM
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All other Doctors just used it as an unlocking tool, though for a very loose interpretation of "unlock".
"It could open any door in the universe, except when it couldn't." --Tom Baker
  #171  
Old 10-23-2018, 10:17 AM
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Calling it a "screwdriver" is a bit like calling the pocket computers people have that send messages, play music, cruise the internet, answer questions, navigate, and so forth "phones". Whether you call them "mobiles" or "cells" they aren't really "telephones" anymore, even if they can still perform that function among the many, many other functions they have.

So it's probably a historical remnant - the Time Lords (or maybe just the Doctor) kept adding new functions to what was originally a sort of screwdriver. Just like we kept adding more functions to telephones.
My memory may be faulty, but the one thing I cannot recall ever seeing the Doctor do with the sonic screwdriver, is drive a screw.

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Also, IIRC River wasn't exactly a typical prisoner. Didn't the prison know that she was actually innocent?

Hmm. Now I'm pondering the comic potential of River running into the current Doctor. Might be worth a one-off just for that.
Alex Kingston has said that she wants to return for at least one episode with Thirteen. She’s also noted that River has had several husbands, and at least one wife.
  #172  
Old 10-23-2018, 07:48 PM
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I would enjoy an episode with Kate Stewart (the Brigadier's daughter) and Thirteen.

I like an occasional return of a prior character episode. The trick is not to overdo them.
  #173  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:22 PM
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My memory may be faulty, but the one thing I cannot recall ever seeing the Doctor do with the sonic screwdriver, is drive a screw.
I remember one episode of Classic Who where we saw a screw unscrewing itself, but I don't recall which.
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  #174  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:35 PM
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One of the lost episodes.
  #175  
Old 10-23-2018, 08:45 PM
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"Who looks at a screwdriver and thinks, 'Ooh, this could be a little more sonic'?"
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  #176  
Old 10-23-2018, 11:18 PM
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I would enjoy an episode with Kate Stewart (the Brigadier's daughter) and Thirteen.

I like an occasional return of a prior character episode. The trick is not to overdo them.
Yeah that would be a funny episode

Jodie, guns bad mmkaY

Kate, five rounds rapid and sorted
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Old 10-24-2018, 01:05 AM
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Next weeks preview seems very, very familiar. I'd swear that exact scene was done by Tennant or maybe Matt Smith.

The Doctor dropping off a new assistant and obviously will be lonely. Even the dinner offer seems familiar.

It was the end of one of the Christmas episodes.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-restorat...1829934628/amp
  #178  
Old 10-24-2018, 02:55 AM
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Hmm. Now I'm pondering the comic potential of River running into the current Doctor. Might be worth a one-off just for that.
Gods, no. I'd be happy never seeing River Song again. She was insufferable.
  #179  
Old 10-24-2018, 07:40 AM
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Gods, no. I'd be happy never seeing River Song again. She was insufferable.
She had her moments, but that character wore thin with overuse.
  #180  
Old 10-24-2018, 11:45 AM
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River Song's best moments were the two episodes where she first appeared and the Christmas special that was her last appearance. The parts in-between.... meh.
  #181  
Old 10-24-2018, 12:13 PM
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My memory may be faulty, but the one thing I cannot recall ever seeing the Doctor do with the sonic screwdriver, is drive a screw.
Well, in Day of the Doctors, the War Doctor did, when Smith/Tennant kept pointing their sonics at the Queen copy, ask them "What are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?"
  #182  
Old 10-24-2018, 01:41 PM
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Rosa parks passed away 13 years ago today.
  #183  
Old 10-26-2018, 04:14 AM
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I remember one episode of Classic Who where we saw a screw unscrewing itself, but I don't recall which.
War Games, where Patrick Troughton is demonstrating his bona fides as an alien time traveller by remotely unscrewing and rescrewing the butt of a soldier's pistol.
  #184  
Old 10-26-2018, 05:42 AM
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Matt Smith's Doctor (Eleven) also used it as a screwdriver on the TARDIS counsel at one point - can't remember which episodes, but it caused some comment in the on-line chatter about the show.
  #185  
Old 10-26-2018, 05:48 AM
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My wife bought our daughter one of these shirts (in children's size, of course). It's rather nice.
  #186  
Old 10-26-2018, 10:42 PM
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Gods, no. I'd be happy never seeing River Song again. She was insufferable.
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She had her moments, but that character wore thin with overuse.
River might be my favorite companion on NuWho. But I agree that she could have been insufferable, had she been played by an actor less talented than Alex Kingston. I occasionally go to YouTube and watch her "When you're in love with the Doctor" scene from " The Husbands Of River Song", just to enjoy the interplay between her and Peter Capaldi; two brilliant actors, practicing their craft.
  #187  
Old 10-28-2018, 06:34 PM
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Spiders are icky, giant spiders and I want to see roughnecks deploying with power armor and calling in orbital fire support with nuclear warshots. Humane and dignified end is not what I am gonna give an insect or arachnid.
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  #188  
Old 10-28-2018, 09:15 PM
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Interesting timing for the episode.
  #189  
Old 10-28-2018, 09:55 PM
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Interesting. Moral of story: Giant Spiders aren't the monsters, the real monster is an excruciatingly thinly veiled version of Trump. I wonder if he will recur as needed.

Last edited by wolfman; 10-28-2018 at 09:56 PM.
  #190  
Old 10-28-2018, 09:58 PM
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It did feel strange to find myself thinking, you know, the Trump stand-in is right. Violence is the answer in this situation.
  #191  
Old 10-28-2018, 10:20 PM
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It did feel strange to find myself thinking, you know, the Trump stand-in is right. Violence is the answer in this situation.
Letting the giant spiders starve or suffocate is more humane than shooting them... why, exactly?
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  #192  
Old 10-28-2018, 11:44 PM
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Letting the giant spiders starve or suffocate is more humane than shooting them... why, exactly?
You'll have to ask the Doctor that one; her views on what's humane don't hold up to close scrutiny. For me personally, I'm live and let live for small, non-poisonous spiders, but once they get bigger than a beagle, they need to be exterminated in the quickest way possible.
  #193  
Old 10-29-2018, 01:23 AM
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Was the American broadcast edited to pieces or something? There wasn’t actually any resolution to the story. They lure the spiders into the panic room and then TrumpJLR shoots the big one (which was the right decision btw!) and then the next scene they’re back at home. So the spiders are still in the panic room? The Doctor’s plan was to just leave them there until they all starved to death or cannibalized each other? That’s better than a quick shot to the head why? And TrumpJLR is fine with having a panic room full of giant man-eating spiders to worry about?
  #194  
Old 10-29-2018, 03:53 AM
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It wasn't the best episode. There was no alien hand waving about how the spiders got so big (instead using a very 1980's "toxic waste acting on scientific experiments!), the end was so morally grey that I'm wondering if the point is specifically to show that the Doctor's morality is stupid. The Trump stand in was much more heavy handed than the very well done Rosa Parks situation last episode.
The spiders looked OK.
  #195  
Old 10-29-2018, 05:47 AM
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It wasn't the best episode. There was no alien hand waving about how the spiders got so big (instead using a very 1980's "toxic waste acting on scientific experiments!), the end was so morally grey that I'm wondering if the point is specifically to show that the Doctor's morality is stupid. The Trump stand in was much more heavy handed than the very well done Rosa Parks situation last episode.
The spiders looked OK.
Actually I found that quite a refreshing change from the usual "the Doctor averts yet another alien invasion".
  #196  
Old 10-29-2018, 05:57 AM
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Three things:

1) HOLY CRAP GIANT SPIDERS;
2) An excellent and entertaining turn from Chris Noth as Not-Trump, and I suspect we'll at least be hearing from him again if not actively seeing him; and
3) Yeah, another "Guns are bad, but gruesome mass death is fine" episode (see also: exploding gas fields).
  #197  
Old 10-29-2018, 06:43 AM
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An excellent and entertaining turn from Chris Noth as Not-Trump, and I suspect we'll at least be hearing from him again if not actively seeing him
He appeared to be having a whale of a time. didn't he?

I'm enjoying the smaller scale of this. It's a nice change of pace from the Moffat overload.
  #198  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:33 AM
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I think the major problem I had with this one was the disconnect of the "solution" at the end. Was there really no other solution than to let the mother spider asphyxiate and all the others starve, whilst apologising to them? It's a sci fi show, could she not have lured the spiders to be tardis and taken them off to some spidery paradise? The spiders were victims in this ep, and the doctor did nothing to help them.
  #199  
Old 10-29-2018, 07:44 AM
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He appeared to be having a whale of a time. didn't he?
I'll confess that a teensy part of me wanted him to say "Oh my God, it killed Kevin! You bastard!"
  #200  
Old 10-29-2018, 08:40 AM
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A crappy episode after one of the best in years.


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I'll confess that a teensy part of me wanted him to say "Oh my God, it killed Kevin! You bastard!"
Oh damn, me too.
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