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  #201  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:02 AM
Steve MB Steve MB is offline
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Originally Posted by Eyebrows 0f Doom View Post
Was the American broadcast edited to pieces or something? There wasn’t actually any resolution to the story. They lure the spiders into the panic room and then TrumpJLR shoots the big one (which was the right decision btw!) and then the next scene they’re back at home.
Mrs SteveMB double-checked that we didn't skip over a section of the episode when zipping through that commercial break.
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  #202  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:20 AM
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Was the American broadcast edited to pieces or something? There wasn’t actually any resolution to the story. They lure the spiders into the panic room and then TrumpJLR shoots the big one (which was the right decision btw!) and then the next scene they’re back at home. So the spiders are still in the panic room? The Doctor’s plan was to just leave them there until they all starved to death or cannibalized each other? That’s better than a quick shot to the head why? And TrumpJLR is fine with having a panic room full of giant man-eating spiders to worry about?
The panic room was equipped with months of food. I assumed the Doctor planned to let the spiders live on that food until they died of natural causes; how long does a temperate-zone house spider live, after all? (Of course, that ignores the fact that spiders can’t open cans, or eat preserved food, or that they trap and eat their prey live...)

Giant spiders don’t freak me out – they're easy to see and avoid. It’s the thousands of teeny little bastards that skitter around where you can’t see ‘em that give me a whole body cringe.

Fun episode, but some weak writing – as has Teuton pointed out above, the “toxic waste leads to mutant monsters” is a pretty dated cliché. And the resolution was choppy; I was expecting the Trump clone to get eaten, at least.

Speaking of which, on one hand, I’m tired of the British stereotype of “asshole American solves problem with gun”. On the other, Robertson’s behavior was exactly what I would expect of that particular asshole of whom he was a clear expy.
  #203  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:25 AM
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Anyone have any idea why this episode was shot in South Africa? Last week’s was shot in ... oh crap, I forget, but some interesting place in Europe, presumably for the needed barren vistas. But South Africa? Surely there are enough black actors in the UK that that’s not the reason. I’m baffled.
Fun Fact. South Africa is a popular choice for British television companies (and other creative industries) - it's a lot cheaper for many services, and they're on the same time zone, which makes coordination simpler. And they speak English, so getting local staff is simple.
  #204  
Old 10-29-2018, 09:28 AM
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Fun Fact. South Africa is a popular choice for British television companies (and other creative industries) - it's a lot cheaper for many services, and they're on the same time zone, which makes coordination simpler. And they speak English, so getting local staff is simple.
Much in the way Hollywood often uses Vancouver or Toronto.
  #205  
Old 10-29-2018, 12:17 PM
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Pretty weak and stupid ep all round.

Yeah the spiders trapped in the panic room will starve to death, even if they could open the cans and eat the food there ... they just keep growing and would eventually eat each other until only one is left and that one starved, shooting them quickly would indeed be a mercy killing then. The Trump mockery was so bad it made, a diehard Trump detester as an evil upon this planet, cringe. The plot was dumb at best.

But even the end ... Yaz loves her family but because they drive her crazy she is going to leave, to do something that she knows is possible to not come back from, is that dangerous, nearly died already, without a word to mum or dad goodbye?


Cultural question - is arachnophobia particularly strong in the U.K.?
  #206  
Old 10-29-2018, 01:39 PM
Eyebrows 0f Doom Eyebrows 0f Doom is offline
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The panic room was equipped with months of food. I assumed the Doctor planned to let the spiders live on that food until they died of natural causes; how long does a temperate-zone house spider live, after all? (Of course, that ignores the fact that spiders can’t open cans, or eat preserved food, or that they trap and eat their prey live...)
It looked to me like the food was all stored in sealed heavy duty metal boxes.

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Speaking of which, on one hand, I’m tired of the British stereotype of “asshole American solves problem with gun”. On the other, Robertson’s behavior was exactly what I would expect of that particular asshole of whom he was a clear expy.
The problem I had with the episode was that was the behavior I would expect from almost everyone! Were we, the audience, supposed to be agreeing with Not!Trump here or was that just terrible writing? It's OK to let a creature starve to death, or die in misery, but choosing to kill it make you an evil evil person?

The hypocrisy of The Doctor around the topic has come up before, but it has been so strong so far this series that I don't know if we are supposed to be aware of it or not.
  #207  
Old 10-29-2018, 01:44 PM
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I think the major problem I had with this one was the disconnect of the "solution" at the end. Was there really no other solution than to let the mother spider asphyxiate and all the others starve, whilst apologising to them? It's a sci fi show, could she not have lured the spiders to be tardis and taken them off to some spidery paradise? The spiders were victims in this ep, and the doctor did nothing to help them.
Like 3's Planet of the Spiders?
  #208  
Old 10-29-2018, 04:47 PM
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I don't have any doubt at all that the fate of the spiders is to be exterminated by the Trump expy's bodyguards the next day, when he comes back to the large building he owns without the interference of the Tardis Team.

She didn't solve the problem at all.
  #209  
Old 10-29-2018, 05:30 PM
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It looked to me like the food was all stored in sealed heavy duty metal boxes.
Yeah, as I said - sloppy writing.

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Originally Posted by Eyebrows 0f Doom View Post
The problem I had with the episode was that was the behavior I would expect from almost everyone! Were we, the audience, supposed to be agreeing with Not!Trump here or was that just terrible writing? It's OK to let a creature starve to death, or die in misery, but choosing to kill it make you an evil evil person?

The hypocrisy of The Doctor around the topic has come up before, but it has been so strong so far this series that I don't know if we are supposed to be aware of it or not.
Agreed. But I was talking about the Trump expy's general assholishness - firing Najia, dick-waving at Kevin and Frankie, throwing Kevin to the (wolf) spider.


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Pretty weak and stupid ep all round.

Yeah the spiders trapped in the panic room will starve to death, even if they could open the cans and eat the food there ... they just keep growing and would eventually eat each other until only one is left and that one starved, shooting them quickly would indeed be a mercy killing then. The Trump mockery was so bad it made, a diehard Trump detester as an evil upon this planet, cringe. The plot was dumb at best.

But even the end ... Yaz loves her family but because they drive her crazy she is going to leave, to do something that she knows is possible to not come back from, is that dangerous, nearly died already, without a word to mum or dad goodbye?


Cultural question - is arachnophobia particularly strong in the U.K.?
(My emphasis)

Yes, but she's a police officer - she does that every day already.
  #210  
Old 10-30-2018, 05:25 AM
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I agree with the Doctor: guns are never the solution, if you happen to be a super-genius with a magic wand and a time machine. For us of the lumpen proliteriat, there are certain extreme situations in which guns, regrettably, are the best solution available.

BTW, do you know what I'd call being attacked by a horde of giant spiders? A bloody extreme circumstance.
  #211  
Old 10-30-2018, 08:24 AM
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Even if the smaller spiders survived, they would be doomed to death by suffocation as they grew larger. I wonder if the point of herding them into the panic room was to cut off life support systems to the room, allowing them to suffocate immediately?

I wonder if the toxic dump plotline will pop up again later...it seemed like there was more than enough evidence for several whistleblowers to come forward, and it would be quite nice to see the Trump clone face some consequences.
  #212  
Old 10-30-2018, 06:56 PM
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I wonder if the toxic dump plotline will pop up again later...it seemed like there was more than enough evidence for several whistleblowers to come forward, and it would be quite nice to see the Trump clone face some consequences.
I've seen complaints online that the Trump clone"got away with it", and he certainly seemed to think he was ending the story in triumph, but on second thought I didn't see it that way.

Consider his situation at the end of the episode: His private panic room is full of giant spiders. A REALLY giant spider is oozing spider juice all over the carpet in his luxury ballroom, creating at least an immense cleanup problem. His newest luxury hotel is covered in webbing. Most of the staff who might have helped clean up the situation are dead, covered in webbing, and probably soon to the the topics of a really interesting coroner's inquest. Most of the witnesses to what happened have disappeared, except for a woman he just fired and a scientist who wasn't working for him in the first place.

How exactly is he going to explain all this? How is he going to capitalize on heroically shooting a spider the size of an SUV if he has no good story to explain how an SUV-sized spider came to be in his hotel in the first place? "I hire criminally careless subcontractors and don't supervise them" is really not a good story, and "It's Obama's fault" must have some limits.

The real Trump will gleefully point out that no one ever got killed by giant spiders on any of HIS properties. Debate opponents will demand to know how he can protect the American people when he can't protect his own staff from killer giant spiders. KILLER. GIANT. SPIDERS. Is there any way a politician can benefit from having KILLER GIANT SPIDERS associated indelibly with his name?
  #213  
Old 10-30-2018, 11:50 PM
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Was the American broadcast edited to pieces or something? There wasn’t actually any resolution to the story. They lure the spiders into the panic room and then TrumpJLR shoots the big one (which was the right decision btw!) and then the next scene they’re back at home. So the spiders are still in the panic room? The Doctor’s plan was to just leave them there until they all starved to death or cannibalized each other? That’s better than a quick shot to the head why? And TrumpJLR is fine with having a panic room full of giant man-eating spiders to worry about?
There was no resolution. The viewer was left to make their own assumptions. Bad writing, or poor editing. Maybe they edited out a long winded explanation? We were told that the really large spider appeared to be suffocating (in a rather large room). I assumed that the smaller large spiders would be forced to suffocate in the closed, locked, and sealed panic room. Or not.
  #214  
Old 10-31-2018, 12:28 AM
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We were told that the really large spider appeared to be suffocating (in a rather large room). I assumed that the smaller large spiders would be forced to suffocate in the closed, locked, and sealed panic room. Or not.
For spiders(or anything of that primitive branch of Animals), suffocating is not only a matter of presence of Oxygen necessarily. Every one of their cells requires Oxygen, but they can only respire through a patch of skin, not through any opening like into lungs. So there is a square-cube growth issue limiting size in spiders.

Basically as they grow in size( let's says they double in length in every dimension), their number of cells needing Oxygen grows as a function of volume(or cubes) But their patch of skin only grows as a function of surface area (or squares). So every time they double in size they need 8 times more oxygen, but only get 4 times more. So if they keep growing, that will eventually suffocate.

But I guess they didn't want to get all geeky* to explain it, and left it confusing.




*WTF writers, It's Dr freakin Who. Geeks made your asses.

Last edited by wolfman; 10-31-2018 at 12:33 AM.
  #215  
Old 10-31-2018, 06:51 AM
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Note that spiders have book lungs which is different from how insects get O2.
But your point remains

Brian
  #216  
Old 10-31-2018, 03:52 PM
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My thoughts so far on the new Doctor:

Well, Jodie Whittaker is fine, but the show is disappointing. It isn't her, it's the writers and the decisions that have been made by the creative team.

1. Did she really need three companions? If we are trying to put a new Doctor in a position to shine, was it really wise to overwhelm them with three other people we need to follow each episode? It does not help that I have not found any of the three companions interesting.

- One thing I often like is the relationship/bond the Doctor forms with his companion. I don't feel that at all with this situation. Giving her three dull(so far) companions was a terrible choice.

2. Has she had one moment to shine? The Doctor usually enters situations, takes control, demonstrates that he is the smartest person in the room, and solves everything with intelligence and doing what is right. Has she had a single moment to shine at all?

3. She has been written generically. I can tell you about 9, 10, 11, and 12's personalities. 13? She's......the Doctor. Uh....that's it. Not one unique trait other than being female, which is not enough to stand out as interseting. Besides, him being a her is not enough to make a great Doctor. Make her....grumpy? Fun? Outrageous or notable in some way? Jodie Whittaker could be as good as any Doctor, but she is just waiting for....something to happen.

Disappointed that they are wasting a great actress.
  #217  
Old 10-31-2018, 04:11 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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The producer and writer of this (eleventh) series is Chris Chibnall, who previously wrote and produced Broadchurch. Given that Broadchurch was, to some extent, all about grief, is that why a big part of this series is also about grief (particularly Graham's)?

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 10-31-2018 at 04:11 PM.
  #218  
Old 10-31-2018, 04:48 PM
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Mahaloth,

I think part of what is different about this Doctor than the usual one is that this one is a bit less sure of herself. When she says something like "I'm smart" she comes off like she is trying to convince herself of it rather than showing off and expecting admiration. The aspect of The Doctor that this one runs with with enjoying being the teacher.

Shine moments? She's gone out of her way to not do them in front of others. Confronting Krasko with her deduction of his neural inhibitor and how he could not kill her no mater how much he wanted to, letting him try to choke her to death ... that was a classic shine moment. She only mentioned to the gang that she had some suspicion she wanted to test and did it without them to see it.


Overall agreed though. They have the acting chops (I think, need to see some comedic timing which is always important too), in her and in the Companions, to make a great version ... so far the writers and showrunner are not taking full advantage of it.

Back to giant spiders - how much a real world limitation is there to the ability of the exoskeleton to scale up to support the mass? Same dimensions would just crumple I'd think.
  #219  
Old 11-01-2018, 12:32 AM
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The producer and writer of this (eleventh) series is Chris Chibnall, who previously wrote and produced Broadchurch. Given that Broadchurch was, to some extent, all about grief, is that why a big part of this series is also about grief (particularly Graham's)?
Thanks. I just realized what has been missing. It's the science, the science fiction, the new planet exploration, the interesting new villians, the cowboy action, Victorian England, spaceships, witches, Michelle Gomez.

Episode 1 was an intro to the players. E3 and E4 were social commentary. E4 spent so much time attacking the Trump impersonator that they didn't leave enough time to explain the spiders. And they were both U.S. based. Is it the producers intention to attract more non-science fiction viewers there? Will there be enough new soap opera-style fans to offset the loss of the fans who are looking for the next Weeping Angel, or Dalek?
  #220  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:35 AM
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Thanks. I just realized what has been missing. It's the science, the science fiction, the new planet exploration, the interesting new villians, the cowboy action, Victorian England, spaceships, witches, Michelle Gomez.

Episode 1 was an intro to the players. E3 and E4 were social commentary. E4 spent so much time attacking the Trump impersonator that they didn't leave enough time to explain the spiders. And they were both U.S. based. Is it the producers intention to attract more non-science fiction viewers there?
Sheffield is in the US? The main (human) villain in E4 is American but the hotel and the spiders were in Yorkshire.

And E2 was chock-full of spaceships, new planet exploration, killer robots, holograms, teleportation, science fiction, and actual science, all in one episode. E1, 3 and 4 gave us new villains that are quite likely to appear again later. E1 and E3 were full of alien/future tech. I suspect you're going to continue to be disappointed on the Michelle Gomez front and frankly I've had more than enough Victoriana anyway but otherwise you're getting what you're asking for.
  #221  
Old 11-01-2018, 08:40 AM
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Thanks. I just realized what has been missing. ... witches, Michelle Gomez.

...
Hey, now you can see Michelle Gomez as a witch on Netflix in the The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina.
  #222  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:09 AM
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Michelle Gomez fans should search Youtube for her appearances (as "Sue White") in The Green Wing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBM1x5DPBXA
  #223  
Old 11-01-2018, 11:26 AM
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That felt like an episode of Timeless. I like Timeless.
Yes it did. In fact, it felt like a carbon copy of Timeless. I like Timeless too, but I do not want Doctor Who to become it. In Timeless:

1) Characters Inevitably run into one or more important historical figures.
2) Said meetings happen at very critical point in our timeline.
3) Has black guy Rufus inevitably having to deal with one more more racist assholes.
4) Has a bad guy trying to sabotage the timeline. (At least this guy's name wasn't "Rittenhouse").
5) Has the characters playing interference in order to correct what the bad guy has fucked up.

Did they do a decent job of playing the formula? Yeah I guess, but If I want to watch Timeless, I'll watch Timeless (which, imho is an inferior show that probably will be cancelled soon). I hope to god these kind of episodes are few and far between.
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Old 11-01-2018, 12:15 PM
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Yes it did. In fact, it felt like a carbon copy of Timeless. I like Timeless too, but I do not want Doctor Who to become it.
I think you mean that Timeless is a carbon copy (or shameless ripoff!) of Doctor Who.

(I remember watching the first Doctor Who episode in 1963.)
  #225  
Old 11-01-2018, 01:37 PM
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I think you mean that Timeless is a carbon copy (or shameless ripoff!) of Doctor Who.

(I remember watching the first Doctor Who episode in 1963.)
Not really. The formulas are quite different, Timeless is more grounded, formulaic, takes itself too seriously, and tries to stick to reality. If EVERY Doctor Who episode was like this last one, I'd be done with it right quick. I don't need to be reminded that there was racism in the past every episode. No shit!
  #226  
Old 11-01-2018, 01:40 PM
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Did they do a decent job of playing the formula? Yeah I guess, but If I want to watch Timeless, I'll watch Timeless (which, imho is an inferior show that probably will be cancelled soon). I hope to god these kind of episodes are few and far between.
FYI, Timeless was cancelled but they're going to air a TV movie in December to wrap things up.
  #227  
Old 11-02-2018, 04:01 AM
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I like the smaller scale of this series, and I like how Jodie Whittaker has just become a female Doctor, without any fuss or feeling the need to call attention to it: I also like how she's becoming the responsible Doctor. Fun episode, although essentially a retread of The Green Death from way back in Pertwee's run: a cameo from Katy Manning's Jo Grant would have been a nice touch. And the loudmouth Alec Baldwin lookalike was a touch too obviously the Ugly American, although the actor was clearly having fun: he should have been dragged off and eaten, though. Good, cheerfully creepy low-stakes fun.
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:35 AM
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Also the new, branching Time Vortex looks great, and it's hard to dislike a pun as terrible as "Arachnids In The UK".
  #229  
Old 11-02-2018, 06:07 AM
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And the loudmouth Alec Baldwin lookalike was a touch too obviously the Ugly American, although the actor was clearly having fun
Chris Noth, formerly of the original "Law & Order" series and, occasionally, "Sex and the City". Definitely hamming it up.
  #230  
Old 11-02-2018, 11:33 AM
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Cultural question - is arachnophobia particularly strong in the U.K.?
God yes. To an utterly, utterly tiresome degree. It's taken as read that spiders are a bad thing, and if you're not freaked out by them - just normal, harmless, spindly British house spiders - then you're weird. So if you're just creeped out or startled by unexpectedly happening across one, then you have licence to be 'one of those people who hates spiders' because that's such a normal thing, rather than having a word with yourself for being so bothered by something so benign.

Because it's so utterly entrenched, it's perpetuated as kids learn from their parents and teachers that spiders are creepy and problematic. And when they don't automatically react like that, they're praised as 'brave', which pretty soon cements the idea that spiders are creepy and problematic. My kids love spiders, because my wife and I have always said how cool they are. Their friends think that's weird. Guess what? Their parents get all shrieky and hysterical about them.

Last edited by Yorkshire Pudding; 11-02-2018 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:16 PM
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Well excuse me for freaking out about house spiders. I try to humanely remove them via the cup-and-paper method but I have had spiders in my kitchen too big to get a pint glass over and while I know they're harmless I'm still dropping a heavy object on them rather than risking having them loose in the house.
  #232  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:21 PM
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I appreciate that many people find spiders creepy.

I quite like them because:

- they kill flies
- I once got called in by a girl I liked to remove a spider from her bath
  #233  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:53 PM
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it's hard to dislike a pun as terrible as "Arachnids In The UK".

What is the pun aspect of that?
  #234  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:55 PM
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What is the pun aspect of that?
Not much, but "anarchy in the UK"
  #235  
Old 11-02-2018, 01:07 PM
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Yes it did. In fact, it felt like a carbon copy of Timeless. I like Timeless too, but I do not want Doctor Who to become it.
(post shortened)

There aren't that many storylines available. Writers can change the time, the place, the characters, the McGuffin, etc., but it's up to the writers, directors, and actors to provide the audience with a new, entertaining, view of an old story.

Fans eventually grow tired of the old, stale, repeated stories, and search for new shows that repeat the same old, stale, repeated stories in a new way. What makes Dr Who stand out from other shows is that the fans never know who, what, where, or why Dr Who, and his/her companions, will be placed in danger, or how they will survive. Every week is a brand new adventure.
  #236  
Old 11-02-2018, 01:53 PM
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Not much, but "anarchy in the UK"

And googling that tells me the rest of the answer--that Anarchy in the UK is a song.
  #237  
Old 11-02-2018, 02:21 PM
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And googling that tells me the rest of the answer--that Anarchy in the UK is a song.
Nobody studies the classics anymore.
  #238  
Old 11-02-2018, 02:50 PM
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Also the new, branching Time Vortex looks great, and it's hard to dislike a pun as terrible as "Arachnids In The UK".
I'm OK with the new opening visuals, but am still not liking the new arrangement of the theme song. Too dark, or something . . .
  #239  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:05 PM
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What is the pun aspect of that?
I forget I'm mostly talking to Americans sometimes.
  #240  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:19 PM
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I finally got around to watching the Rosa Parks episode this week, and I'll rank it as 'pretty good'. They didn't handle the situation badly, and especially avoided any of a 'The Doctor actually motivated Rosa Parks to do it' story line. The episode had a lot of plot holes, but that's pretty usual for the show so most of them are fine for me- why didn't Krasko just time zap Rosa (or the driver, or the bus), why was the policeman who followed them when they broke into a hotel room not concerned about breaking and entering, why wasn't Rosa a bit more freaked out by these weird Brits following her around. The Very Special Episode bit at the end was a bit too much, I think the episode would stand better if the 'And Now You Know' part wasn't so overdone.

They did break a longstanding Who 'rule' though. Typically The Doctor and her companions get spillover from the Chameleon Circuit or Translation Matrix and don't get noticed for being out of place in far future and alien worlds, even though their clothing, body type, speech patterns, social knowledge, and so on are radically outdated or alien. Notably Martha and the Doctor had very little problem posing as an interracial couple in 1960s America during Blink. I don't have a huge objection to it since they wanted to tell a particular story, but it is a deviation.

Ryan firing the time gun was badly handled. The Doctor telling him how it worked meant that he obviously was going to use it by the end of the episode, but she didn't do her usual 'oh you can't kill the bad guy' speech when he sent Krasko back 'as far as it would go'. If she's really fine with time zapping the bad guy to ancient times, why not just zap him early on instead of trying to counter him by normal means and risking history breaking? Why zap him to the distant past where either he's going to die or mess up history even more instead of zapping him a week into the future, allowing them to hang out for a few days, then pick him up and drop him back into his proper time? The Doctor doing stuff that 'just works' is fine with me, but introducing a special device that's crucial to the story, then not using it in an obvious way to solve the problem but instead in a way that's either morally questionable or ineffective gets a low grade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
Krasko. His motivation appears to be racism, which I found strangely refreshing in a sci-fi medium where prejudice is usually transferred into some "humans vs aliens" context (that one Star Trek episode notwithstanding). The idea that humans will eventually transcend petty bigotry is very Roddenberry but not very realistic.
It's no more unrealistic than the idea that 'petty bigotry' hundreds or thousands of years from now will take the exact same form that it does in modern times even though the idea of white/brown/black' races has only had a short historical lifespan. Before the Enlightenment, there was lots of prejudice, but skin color wasn't considered all that different from skin color or hair color. Different language, culture, religious belief, family connections, clothing styles, and the like were what people used to determine that someone was a 'barbarian'. All the complicated classifications of 'negroid' 'caucasian' 'mongoloid' really come from the 19th century, they just weren't a serious concept before that.

I find the idea of a guy 6000 years from now being agitated over black and white humans being equal about as likely as someone today getting agitated over an Assyrian vs non-Assyrian descent; there's probably someone who does it, but it's likely that people will regard him as mentally ill, not prejudiced per se. It's typical of the show to have future and societies very much like 20th-21st century Britain though, so again it doesn't take me out of the show.

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Originally Posted by BwanaBob View Post
A friend speculated that his motive in derailing history wasn't racism per se, but that he wanted to alter the civil rights movement because in his time, this was the first step in an ultimately unified Earth which, in the Doctor Who universe, is something Krasko's people in the future are enemies of.
The problem is that Krasko told Ryan that he should know his place during their confrontation, which is pretty clearly signaling that Krasko is racist. They could have done the episode with that motivation, but I don't think it fits what they actually put together. Would actually be a bit more interesting IMO, instead of having FutureRacist doing racist stuff, you would have a villain with sympathetic motivations.
  #241  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:47 PM
Yorkshire Pudding Yorkshire Pudding is offline
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while I know they're harmless I'm still dropping a heavy object on them rather than risking having them loose in the house.
This is literally my point. They're harmless and they're so much of a risk they must be killed, at the same time! That undisputably makes no sense, but it's so much the accepted standard that it's weird to take the 'sensible' view.
  #242  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:49 PM
Yorkshire Pudding Yorkshire Pudding is offline
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Anyway, this isn't a thread about popular conceptions of spider acceptability. Consider me backed off.
  #243  
Old 11-02-2018, 04:25 PM
Maus Magill Maus Magill is offline
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And googling that tells me the rest of the answer--that Anarchy in the UK is a song.
<Adds Darren Garrison to The List of People Who Are Not Allowed on My Lawn.
  #244  
Old 11-02-2018, 06:29 PM
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DSeid DSeid is offline
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Anyway, this isn't a thread about popular conceptions of spider acceptability. Consider me backed off.
But I thank you for the answer. Honestly I don't see a huge degree of irrational spider fear in the United States, either among real people or in media, but spiders as particularly scary seems to be a very common British theme, from Shelob of Tolkein fame, to Aragog in Harry Potter, to this.

Trying to come up with a famous spider in American literature/media the first my mind comes up with is Charlotte and her web. But it seems that such a character, a loving, wise, and friendly spider, would simply never fly on the other side of the pond. (And our spider does indeed do that!) Then maybe "Itsy Bitsy" who climbed up the water spout, and our appropriated from Africa, Anasi, whose cleverness is scary I guess.
  #245  
Old 11-02-2018, 07:18 PM
glee glee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
And googling that tells me the rest of the answer--that Anarchy in the UK is a song.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
I forget I'm mostly talking to Americans sometimes.
I'm English and I didn't get the joke.
  #246  
Old 11-02-2018, 07:29 PM
Yorkshire Pudding Yorkshire Pudding is offline
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
But I thank you for the answer. Honestly I don't see a huge degree of irrational spider fear in the United States, either among real people or in media, but spiders as particularly scary seems to be a very common British theme, from Shelob of Tolkein fame, to Aragog in Harry Potter, to this.

Trying to come up with a famous spider in American literature/media the first my mind comes up with is Charlotte and her web. But it seems that such a character, a loving, wise, and friendly spider, would simply never fly on the other side of the pond. (And our spider does indeed do that!) Then maybe "Itsy Bitsy" who climbed up the water spout, and our appropriated from Africa, Anasi, whose cleverness is scary I guess.
Oh, I do think it's relevant, I just didn't want to suffer indignant wrath (as has happened, on occasion) by having the
"They're harmless. You are literally thousands of times bigger than them. They eat the real vermin - which you only regard as mildly annoying - and want nothing from you, save for indifference."
-"But...SPIDERS! Ugh!"
discussion again.

They're very much a popular hate figure in British culture.
  #247  
Old 11-03-2018, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
Notably Martha and the Doctor had very little problem posing as an interracial couple in 1960s America during Blink. I don't have a huge objection to it since they wanted to tell a particular story, but it is a deviation.
Two points:

First, we don't know exactly where "Blink" took place, but there were places in 1960's America where interracial couples existed - just not in the Deep South like Alabama. In the Northeast or upper Midwest, especially in the larger cities, you could get away with an interracial relationship although you'd still suffer discrimination for it.

Second, a white man with a black woman was (and to an extent still is) better tolerated by the society in question than a white woman and a black man. So... Tennant Doctor and Martha would have fewer problems than Whitaker Doctor and Ryan.

Quote:
I find the idea of a guy 6000 years from now being agitated over black and white humans being equal about as likely as someone today getting agitated over an Assyrian vs non-Assyrian descent; there's probably someone who does it, but it's likely that people will regard him as mentally ill, not prejudiced per se.
Yes, well, Krasko's era found him so deviant they actually implanted a device in his brain to control his impulses. Pretty safe to assume he is/was considered "mentally ill" by his native society.
  #248  
Old 11-03-2018, 08:40 AM
Andy L Andy L is offline
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Blink took place in 1960s UK, I believe. Also we see so little of the 1960 setting, that it's not clear to me if they were masquerading as a couple at all, or what, if any, reaction they got.
  #249  
Old 11-05-2018, 01:52 AM
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GuanoLad GuanoLad is offline
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Wow, nobody's even posted anything about today's episode, that's how mediocre it was.

All the reviews are saying that it was "okay" and I agree. It had a few moments, some a bit out of place, but it felt like a filler episode, where nothing of any real consequence happened, even if it did hit some emotional beats quite hard. They are maintaining the small scope.
  #250  
Old 11-05-2018, 05:15 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is online now
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I quite liked the latest episode. The Doctor manages to get everyone blown up, which is a novelty, and we get not two but three plots - the Pting attack / risk of ship being blown up, the whole sibling (and CloneDrone) squabble, and the pregnancy/Ryan's daddy issues thing. All rather neatly wrapped up.

And we've gone from "big scary creature that is actually not so bad" to "cute babylike creature that is a massive threat". I did think the Pting was channeling the gremlin from Hotel Transylvania, though; all we were missing was an "I didn't do that".
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