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Old 11-01-2018, 03:18 PM
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Outlander Season 4 (Spoilers as it airs)

New season, based on Drums of Autumn, starts 11/4 at 8p on Starz. Our beloved Jamie and Claire are making a life for themselves in pre-Revolutionary War America, while in the "present" (1960ish) Brianna tries to get on with her life without her mother.

Thirteen episodes! The show is already renewed for Seasons 5 and 6.
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Old 11-01-2018, 04:57 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Will be watching as it airs, am unspoiled this time. I had read most of book 3 last time.

Mrs. Mahaloth? She just finished reading the entire series. She listened to the audio. It took about 6 months of driving to work.
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:01 AM
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They're showing a marathon of seasons 1-3 all weekend!
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Old 11-04-2018, 08:44 AM
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I was able to watch it On Demand at 7:30 this morning (damn time change.) I won't say anything until after it airs tonight.
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Old 11-04-2018, 09:37 AM
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I was able to watch it On Demand at 7:30 this morning (damn time change.) I won't say anything until after it airs tonight.
Wow, lucky.
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Old 11-04-2018, 07:34 PM
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Watching it now.
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Old 11-05-2018, 08:43 AM
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I think Ed Speleers is going to make a wonderful Bonnet. So charming, until the claws come out.

Ian and Jamie in the cemetery were wonderful. I know it's decades before PTSD will be recognized, but Jamie knows what Ian went through.

There's some talk about the Ray Charles song at the end, but I thought it worked. We could see what was happening, we didn't need to hear it, and the juxtaposition of the lovely song with the violence was haunting.

Terry Dresbach's costumes are as always, stellar. Onto Riverrun next week!
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Old 11-05-2018, 05:38 PM
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I really admire how hard Ron & Co work to get things historically accurate. One little gem I noticed in the end of last season's finale was the throwaway line from the Georgia man who found Jamie and Claire on the beach, and told them they were in America; his accent was slightly English, but definitely inclining to what would become the American accent. A nice touch.
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:41 AM
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I read something interesting yesterday...because this is a non-SAG production, not filming in the US, they had to use Canadian actors for the Native Americans, not US actors.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:09 AM
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I really admire how hard Ron & Co work to get things historically accurate. One little gem I noticed in the end of last season's finale was the throwaway line from the Georgia man who found Jamie and Claire on the beach, and told them they were in America; his accent was slightly English, but definitely inclining to what would become the American accent. A nice touch.
I noticed Ronald Moore has written not a single episode of this season. Is he still the showrunner?

I hope so. Battlestar Galactica is the best show of all time and Outlander is one of my favorite shows as well. Star Trek held him back, but his stuff since then has been great.

I loved that not-picked-up pilot for Virtuality, too.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:11 AM
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I think he stepped back to work on other productions, but he's still executive producer and his partner, Maril Davis, is front and center. I thought he only wrote one episode, the season 1 finale with Ira Stephen Behr?

If you get a chance, look for the free podcasts for Official Outlander on iTunes. It's a fascinating behind the scenes look of how they did the show. Ron said he had to ask for help in writing the season 1 finale because it was such a difficult subject.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:37 AM
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I think he stepped back to work on other productions, but he's still executive producer and his partner, Maril Davis, is front and center. I thought he only wrote one episode, the season 1 finale with Ira Stephen Behr?

If you get a chance, look for the free podcasts for Official Outlander on iTunes. It's a fascinating behind the scenes look of how they did the show. Ron said he had to ask for help in writing the season 1 finale because it was such a difficult subject.
He's written about 4 or 5 episodes.

If you aren't familiar, Bear McCreary is the composer(same as BSG). He has a very active blog on the music composition.

Here is one from season 3 and sometimes, he includes the snippets with the bars as well. No composer I know of gives such access to his process.
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Old 11-12-2018, 09:06 AM
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Episode 2: Do No Harm

This episode veered from the books, in that the slave dies at the house instead of the timber yard, but I think it made for a more powerful story.

We meet Aunt Jocasta at River Run (damn, the visual effects are outstanding), John Quincy Meyers intrigues Young Ian with his talk of the Indian lassies, and Claire once again acts with 20th century sensibilities in an 18th century world.

Even the slaves were part of it, with Ulysses telling her that Rufus was a dead man walking and it was going to cause problems for the other slaves if he didn't die. Poor Claire had to euthanize a man she just saved, merely because she saw him as a man while everyone else (except Jamie and Ian) saw him as a slave. And kudoes to Young Ian for being such a capable surgical nurse!

This moves the story forward in that there is no way Claire and Jamie can stay at River Run, so off to the wilderness! Don't forget, Roger and Bree have adventures of their own, and we'll soon meet Nayawenne!
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:55 AM
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There's some talk about the Ray Charles song at the end, but I thought it worked. We could see what was happening, we didn't need to hear it, and the juxtaposition of the lovely song with the violence was haunting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

First of all, I was wondering how the hell a piano got snuck aboard a riverboat, then who was playing it, then sat there dumbfounded at the most inappropriate use of a song over a death scene since Whatcha Say.
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:32 AM
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Yeah, there seems to be no middle ground on that song choice. I thought it was bold.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:21 AM
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Agree on the visual effects. Mrs. SMV said everything was filmed in Scotland, but River Run sure as hell looked like a North Carolina plantation house.

It’s been a while since I read Drums of Autumn, so maybe this came from Herself, but I wondered if the way the show deals with slavery and slaves this season owes anything to Twelve Years A Slave. I’m glad they’re dealing with it as a complex issue - as Fearchard Campbell pointed out, manumitting a slave was not a simple process. Campbell was a real person, by the way - a merchant who’d come to Cross Creek in the 1720s.

Good episode, but hard to watch (especially for this descendant of North Carolina slave owners).
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:27 PM
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I'm reminded of a scene in Roots way back when. Alex Haley is researching his family and asks a descendant to look through old ledgers for mention of his great great-whatever. The descendant can't find anything, so Alex asks him to look at the livestock ledgers, and lo and behold, there's the great great-whatever. The descendant was of course shocked and mortified, but as Alex pointed out, slaves were property, not people. I thought Outlander handled it well with Jocasta honestly believing that her slaves are better off and she considers them friends
SPOILER:
Some more than others, as book readers know
but the slaves not knowing how to act around Mistress Claire, who doesn't treat them as they think they should be treated in this time and place.
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:37 PM
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Are we sure that was Scotland? I asked my wife if they came to the US for this and we both thought they did. Looked like America to me.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:40 AM
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No, they're in Scotland. A lot of the Blue Ridge mountains look like Scotland, which may be why a lot of Scottish immigrants settled there.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:58 PM
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I read something interesting yesterday...because this is a non-SAG production, not filming in the US, they had to use Canadian actors for the Native Americans, not US actors.
I was sent the casting call many, many times by my friends. However I am not Indigenous.

Or I would have applied in a hot minute.
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Old 11-19-2018, 01:49 PM
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Episode 3: False Bride

Not sure where the title of this episode comes from. We meet Clarence the mule! Bree and Roger have their dust up. That's going to be an awkward drive back to Boston from NC.

Meeting Otter Tooth is a bit different than the books, but it worked out. Lest anyone shriek, yes, Claire has zippers on her boots. Those are the ones that were part of her batsuit so they're from the future. Terry Dresbach knew and planned it that way.

For book readers, we got a few shout outs of things to come. Now, we need Marsali and Fergus up at the Ridge and Ian getting chummy with the Indian lassies.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:50 PM
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The episode title refers to the folk song Roger sang, according to the producers' segment at the end of the show.

Thanks for reminding me about the source of the boot zippers. I was already disgusted by Claire running off yet again to do something as Jamie implores her not to...
  #23  
Old 11-19-2018, 09:53 PM
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Not sure where the title of this episode comes from. We meet Clarence the mule! Bree and Roger have their dust up. That's going to be an awkward drive back to Boston from NC.
Non-book reader here(well, not past the third one, anyway).

Very happy to see Bree and Roger. I told my wife, "Ooooh, I feel like Roger will die and she'll go back in time to find Claire and Jamie."

Wife has said not a word, not a wink, not a nod or any indication of my rightness or wrongness.

Waiting to see what happens.
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Old 11-20-2018, 09:03 AM
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*Sits next to Mahaloth's wife, trying to keep our lips sealed.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:35 PM
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Not sure where the title of this episode comes from. We meet Clarence the mule! Bree and Roger have their dust up. That's going to be an awkward drive back to Boston from NC.

Meeting Otter Tooth is a bit different than the books, but it worked out. Lest anyone shriek, yes, Claire has zippers on her boots. Those are the ones that were part of her batsuit so they're from the future. Terry Dresbach knew and planned it that way.

For book readers, we got a few shout outs of things to come. Now, we need Marsali and Fergus up at the Ridge and Ian getting chummy with the Indian lassies.
Yeah, it's pretty clear that Ian is going to have a "native experience" at some point. I liked the jumping back to 1970s, although the dust up they had seemed rather contrived. And I felt a bit of a Walking Dead flashback when Claire went off alone to find the mule. Here we are, out in the wilderness with a storm coming, but let's split up. Writers need to lose that trope!
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:23 PM
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Yeah, it's pretty clear that Ian is going to have a "native experience" at some point. I liked the jumping back to 1970s, although the dust up they had seemed rather contrived. And I felt a bit of a Walking Dead flashback when Claire went off alone to find the mule. Here we are, out in the wilderness with a storm coming, but let's split up. Writers need to lose that trope!
Jamie's horse was lame, and he couldn't have just left it behind.

Besides, losing and finding each other is their kink. It makes the sex even better.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:43 PM
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I thought the brief scene of Jamie doing some farrier work out there in the middle of nowhere was interesting. It's not something that's normally portrayed in historical dramas but it's probably what people had to do when the nearest blacksmith was far away.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:57 PM
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And I felt a bit of a Walking Dead flashback when Claire went off alone to find the mule. Here we are, out in the wilderness with a storm coming, but let's split up. Writers need to lose that trope!
Clarence (the mule) had all of their supplies, including Claire's medical kit. They couldn't afford to lose it. This particular scene plays out differently in the book.

SPOILER:
Claire and Jamie are already established in their settlement with a cabin. Claire is off treating some German neighbors nearby, when her horse, aptly named Judas, throws her and she spends the night in the rain. Jamie finds her shoes on their front porch and realizes she didn't seek shelter with the Germans during the storm, so he goes looking for her.


I can see them telescoping some things to move the story along. Book readers joke that they'll have to split up the next book, The Fiery Cross, into two seasons, because the beginning is the Gathering and it goes on FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER.
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Old 11-20-2018, 05:20 PM
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Jamie's horse was lame, and he couldn't have just left it behind.
Jamie's house needed to be re-shod. Do that later. It's a lazy writing trope to have people to go off alone when they are in danger.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:43 PM
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Jamie's house needed to be re-shod. Do that later. It's a lazy writing trope to have people to go off alone when they are in danger.
That didn’t feel awkward to me; Claire’s valuable kit was on the mule, and he wouldn’t go far - seemed very natural for her to saddle up and go after Clarence, while Jamie was re-shoeing his horse. It was a mistake, but it didn’t feel like a “Let’s split up and search the haunted house!” moment.

What wasn’t natural was that obvious green screen Claire and Jamie were standing in front of at the end of the episode. As Mrs. SMV said, “They can afford to fly all those First Nations actors to Scotland to portray Tuscaroras and Cherokees, but they can’t send Cate and Sam to North Carolina to film three or four shots on a mountaintop?!” For a show that’s really good about the little touches, like the way the theme song is now sung in an American accent, and the pipes in the background have been replaced by a banjo and fiddle, that’s a pretty glaring bit of shoddy.

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Old 11-21-2018, 09:34 AM
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I think there are a bunch of legal/tax reasons why they're shooting in Scotland. It may have been a green screen, but so was the top half of Jocasta's house. The River Run house astounds me.
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:35 PM
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Mrs. Mahaloth explained to me that Jamie actually fought a bear single-handed in the book, which is even more ridiculous than what we saw here.

A rather odd episode, but one that leads me further down the path to believing Bree will go back in time to re-join Claire.

I love that the date was smudged in the newspaper so Roger couldn't know the exact year they died. How convenient.
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Old 11-26-2018, 07:43 AM
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Well, he fought it with a knife and Claire tried to help with a fish. They actually combined two bears in the show, a real bear and the ghost bear, and I thought it worked well.

Claire's getting a she-shed!

The story is moving right along. Keep in mind Roger decided to not tell Bree about the fire that kills her parents. That's important later.
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Old 11-27-2018, 04:37 PM
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OK, not a bad episode, and I wonder if the young, English speaking Cherokee woman is going to lose her husband and end up with Ian. I figure he's going to end up with an Indian woman one way or another, so she would seem a logical choice.
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Old 12-03-2018, 10:05 AM
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So in the latest episode, Brianna did use the stones to go back in time. (I take it that the time shift via the stones is fixed at a particular number of years back, so you don't just end up at a random time.) Wasn't there something about how someone had to die to make the trip? And apparently she learned independently that her parents die in a fire, sometime in the next twelve years. (Although as someone who has not read the books, I suspect they don't actually die but instead fake their own deaths, perhaps to avoid the war. No spoilers, please.)

And the series is showing us the beginning of the revolution. I don't remember hearing the term "regulator" for colonists in favor of rebellion. Was that a North Carolina thing?
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:06 PM
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1768, so rumblings for the war, but we're not there yet. Geillis mistakenly believed you needed a blood sacrifice. Claire realizes you need a person to focus on and stones help, no death needed.

Regulators are historically correct. Diana does her research. Geillis was even the name of a witch from the 16th century.

They brought back Murtagh! Huzzah!

As a book reader, I can tell you they're telescoping some things. The Muellers, for instance, in the book, do become important for a secondary character. I assume they'll work in that character's story line in another way.
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:13 PM
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So in the latest episode, Brianna did use the stones to go back in time. (I take it that the time shift via the stones is fixed at a particular number of years back, so you don't just end up at a random time.) Wasn't there something about how someone had to die to make the trip? And apparently she learned independently that her parents die in a fire, sometime in the next twelve years. (Although as someone who has not read the books, I suspect they don't actually die but instead fake their own deaths, perhaps to avoid the war. No spoilers, please.)

And the series is showing us the beginning of the revolution. I don't remember hearing the term "regulator" for colonists in favor of rebellion. Was that a North Carolina thing?
Yes, but the movement is not considered part of the Revolution. It was an anti-tax and anti-corruption uprising, akin to Shay's Rebellion in Massachusetts and the Whiskey Rebellion in Pennsylvania. The Regulators weren't protesting against the Crown per se; they were angry at Tryon, and the merchants and wealthy landowners of eastern North Carolina.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Regulation
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Old 12-03-2018, 02:47 PM
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I guess you could call it rumblings. Different people in different parts of the colonies were chafing on how the Crown was treating them, and things started to simmer.
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Old 12-10-2018, 07:42 AM
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Episode 6: Blood of my Blood

There is a hysterical scene in the book where Willie falls through the hole in the privy trying to get Lord John's pistol (he tried to shoot a snake and dropped it down the hole) so that's what the opening scene winked at.

The young man who played Willie was a spitting image of Sam. What a wonderful casting choice. In the book Young Ian is also sick with measles but I liked the one on one with Claire and Lord John. They included a lovely line from the books, where Lord John asks if Claire knows what it's like to love someone, knowing you were not born the right person for them. John loves Jamie, but he is content to have his friendship. I was a little surprised that he told Claire that Jamie had offered himself if John would take care of Willie, because

SPOILER:
We find out later that Jamie did it as a test. If Lord John had taken him up on his offer, he would have known Lord John was not an honorable man and would have killed him.


Looks like next week we get more Bree and Roger, who apparently has shaved his beard!!
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:52 AM
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It looked to me that the Sam and Claire's cabin had been upgraded. The fireplace had a sort-of fancy mantelpiece, and the table looked less rustic than last week.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:01 PM
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Mrs SMV was very disappointed not to see the “Willie falls into the privy” scene. I think she was looking forward to Young Ian’s awkward explanation of how Willie came to be befouled. And maybe John and Jamie’s Latin quotations on the matter.

The Claire/John subplot was nicely done. I remember being disappointed by BookClaire’s reaction to discovering John’s sexuality and love for Jamie; I had hoped for a bit more compassion and understanding. But then I remembered that she’s not a modern woman with 21st century sensibilities; she’s a child of the Thirties and Forties. No reason to assume she’d not share that time’s unquestioning homophobia. And John is in love with her husband. The TV scene is a bit more nuanced; it felt like her envy of John’s time with Jamie and Willie was more to the fore.

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I guess you could call it rumblings. Different people in different parts of the colonies were chafing on how the Crown was treating them, and things started to simmer.
You could, I suppose. But for whatever reason, the historians I’ve read don’t consider the War of the Regulation to be a precursor to the Revolution, the way they do the Stamp Act riots or the Boston Tea Party.

Last edited by Slow Moving Vehicle; 12-10-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:39 PM
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The Claire/John subplot was nicely done. I remember being disappointed by BookClaire’s reaction to discovering John’s sexuality and love for Jamie; I had hoped for a bit more compassion and understanding. But then I remembered that she’s not a modern woman with 21st century sensibilities; she’s a child of the Thirties and Forties. No reason to assume she’d not share that time’s unquestioning homophobia. And John is in love with her husband. The TV scene is a bit more nuanced; it felt like her envy of John’s time with Jamie and Willie was more to the fore.
I think that's part of it. Realizing someone is in love with your husband and is the teensiest bit envious of you can make a relationship fraught. Plus, Lord John knew Jamie post-Culloden, and that's a part of his life Claire didn't have.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:37 PM
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Episode 7: Down the Rabbit Hole

No Jamie and Claire, as we focused on Bree and Roger. I found Bree's journey after coming through the stones similar to Claire's journey on the island after she jumped from the ship in the Caribbean. It was nice to see Laoghaire again, acting as a decent human being (until she found out who Bree was) and Ian Murray. Laura Donnelly is currently doing a run on Broadway and was unable to reprise her role of Jenny, hence her absence. Bree got to raid her mother's wardrobe (the cloak with the gorgeous fur-lined collar is the one Claire wore in Season 1) and head off to the colonies, although Lizzie is older than I imagined. I thought she was a young girl, maybe 12 or 13.

I know Stephen Bonnet is a heartless bastard. I know he's vicious and cruel. But I had to pause my hatred at him throwing ill passengers overboard. We saw what the threat of smallpox could do when Count St Germain's ship was destroyed in Le Havre. Even Claire was unable to cure those ill of typhus on the Porpoise, all she could do was stop the spread of the disease. In order to save his ship and crew, honestly, what else could Bonnet have done? They had no idea of germ theory then. All they knew was people got the pox and died and spread the disease. It truly was "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Yes, it was heartbreaking and horrific. Roger comes from a time and place where you care for the sick. But in the 18th century, they didn't have the luxury of treating the stricken, mainly because there was nothing they could do and it wouldn't have stopped the spread anyway.
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Old 12-17-2018, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
No Jamie and Claire, as we focused on Bree and Roger. I found Bree's journey after coming through the stones similar to Claire's journey on the island after she jumped from the ship in the Caribbean. It was nice to see Laoghaire again, acting as a decent human being (until she found out who Bree was) and Ian Murray. Laura Donnelly is currently doing a run on Broadway and was unable to reprise her role of Jenny, hence her absence. Bree got to raid her mother's wardrobe (the cloak with the gorgeous fur-lined collar is the one Claire wore in Season 1) and head off to the colonies, although Lizzie is older than I imagined. I thought she was a young girl, maybe 12 or 13.

I know Stephen Bonnet is a heartless bastard. I know he's vicious and cruel. But I had to pause my hatred at him throwing ill passengers overboard. We saw what the threat of smallpox could do when Count St Germain's ship was destroyed in Le Havre. Even Claire was unable to cure those ill of typhus on the Porpoise, all she could do was stop the spread of the disease. In order to save his ship and crew, honestly, what else could Bonnet have done? They had no idea of germ theory then. All they knew was people got the pox and died and spread the disease. It truly was "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." Yes, it was heartbreaking and horrific. Roger comes from a time and place where you care for the sick. But in the 18th century, they didn't have the luxury of treating the stricken, mainly because there was nothing they could do and it wouldn't have stopped the spread anyway.
1. My wife also wondered if the Jenny actress was unavailable. She was explaining to me how different the story was in the book.

2. Dude...I guess I can understand the idea of throwing people overboat....but no. I mean....it was horrible. I hated it. :shudders:
  #45  
Old 12-17-2018, 03:46 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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I hated it too. I especially hated that I understood the necessity.
  #46  
Old 12-17-2018, 03:48 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
I hated it too. I especially hated that I understood the necessity.
I'm curious if she did research that said this happened on ships.
  #47  
Old 12-24-2018, 04:15 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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Episode 8: Wilmington

Most of our beloved characters are in Wilmington (Young Ian is off canoodling with the Cherokee) and we meet George Washington. Fergus and Marsali are proud parents, Claire does emergency surgery on a hernia (I presume she pushed his intestines back where they need to be, then stitched him up, and thank Og we have anesthesia today), Fergus and Murtagh reunite, and Brianna has a most traumatic wedding night.

I appreciate the way they handled the rape. We didn't need to see the gruesome details, but hearing the screams for help from behind the closed door while the men blithely played cards made it more horrific. We are getting set up for the next steps (book readers will know) so hang on...the ride is not over yet.

Roger is coming across a bit of a prat in the show. Part of the reason Bree didn't tell him she traveled back in time was because she wanted to be able to focus on him back in present day Scotland to return. Finding out he followed her puts a big kibosh on her plans. He did run into danger to find her, so there's that, and IIRC he is about seven years older than she is, so there is a maturity gap there. Still, he doesn't come across so much as a chauvinist pig in the books. There's more of an equality, although she is rightly pissed he withheld the information about the fire from her.

We still have a ton more to get through and only five more episodes to fit it all in!
  #48  
Old 12-30-2018, 09:57 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Well, Bree met Jamie and found Claire.

I was not expecting it to just kind of happen part way through an episode. Still, it was well done and I was glad to see it.

My jaw dropped the other day when AVclub ranked Outlander as one of the worst 4 shows of the year. I still think it is one of the best on TV.
  #49  
Old 12-31-2018, 12:23 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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The Jamie/Bree meeting was almost word from word from the book, so I'm glad they kept true to it. Poor Roger. I did love how Bree melted after Claire asked her "How far along are you?" Like Mama's here, Mama knows, Mama will help. And Jamie couldn't keep his eyes off Bree, as if he's trying to cram the past 18-19 years into a few seconds.

Still a lot more to go in four more episodes. I think this was one of the best ones of the season.

AV Club can go suck an egg. The ratings and the reviews do not support their opinion.
  #50  
Old 12-31-2018, 01:17 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Originally Posted by ivylass View Post
AV Club can go suck an egg. The ratings and the reviews do not support their opinion.
Whoever wrote that article hated the one episode with slaves from earlier in the season. I think they took that one episode and decided the whole show was abysmal.

I've enjoyed this season quite a bit. More than three, actually.
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