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  #51  
Old 12-31-2018, 02:01 PM
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I'm getting really sick of the "all rape, all the time" aspect--yes, I realize it's Gabaldon's fault and that the showrunners are doing what they can to ameliorate it but goddamn I could do without it. RAPE RAPE RAPETTY RAPE OH LOOK HERE IS MOAR RAPE. Gross.

I also get really super sick of characters keeping vital information to themselves in order to "protect" someone. It never works and it's a lazy way to further your plot. Also gross.
  #52  
Old 12-31-2018, 02:53 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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I think women in the 18th century were in danger of rape a lot of the time. Unfortunate but true.

Claire and Jamie have kept information to protect each other (Claire didn't tell Jamie BJR was alive, for instance) but I think we can blame this particular situation on Bree. I think Claire and Jamie were knocked sideways by her sudden reappearance and they need time to figure out the new normal.
  #53  
Old 01-01-2019, 09:22 PM
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Women in the 21st century are in danger of rape a lot of the time too--even more so, really, because there are more people in general and nobody's in the "untouchable" categories that used to exist in society. Doesn't mean I want to see it, doesn't mean it's the only goddamned peril that can exist, doesn't mean it's the only or most defining event that drives and informs a woman's existence. It's lazy, it implies that some guy's dick, some guy's actions, simply HAVE to be the most important thing to happen to a woman. I'm a sexual abuse survivor and I find that, day to day, that informs my worldview much less than events from childhood that resulted in attachment disorder. As I said, it's lazy, and it's gross. FFS, come up with some other shorthand event, this one's tired and lame.
  #54  
Old 01-02-2019, 09:13 AM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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I can understand that rape portrayal can be traumatic for survivors. Thank you for sharing and I applaud your courage.
  #55  
Old 01-07-2019, 02:33 PM
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Dolores Reborn Dolores Reborn is offline
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Poor Roger got clobbered by Da! If those people would just talk to each other. Jeez.

If only Bree had told Lizzy that the man who attacked her was NOT the man she was with at first.
If only Claire had told Jamie that Bonnet raped Bree.
  #56  
Old 01-07-2019, 05:04 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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I haven't seen it yet...Ivylad and I were away for a long weekend for our anniversary. I plan on watching it while he's watching some silly college football championship game.
  #57  
Old 01-07-2019, 06:04 PM
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"Bree slapped" is a new term in our house. I looked right at my wife and said, "Yeah, he deserved to get Bree-slapped."
  #58  
Old 01-07-2019, 07:33 PM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolores Reborn View Post
Poor Roger got clobbered by Da! If those people would just talk to each other. Jeez.

If only Bree had told Lizzy that the man who attacked her was NOT the man she was with at first.
If only Claire had told Jamie that Bonnet raped Bree.
Then we wouldn't have a show! It's a bit more convoluted in the books...Jamie and Ian only realize who they beat up after Bree draws Roger. Also, she calls him Roger Wakefield but he's been going by Roger MacKenzie in the 18th century, so a little more dust in the eyes of our main characters.

I am SO glad Lord John is there next episode. I was hoping they'd keep that bit in.

Oh, and just wait until season 5. Poor Roger.
  #59  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:12 PM
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I was hoping they would include the scene when Jamie helps Breanna understand that she was a victim and nothing she could do would have made a difference. I remember reading it and thinking how powerful it was...and it really hit home for me.

And they did.
  #60  
Old 01-07-2019, 08:20 PM
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Sophie nailed that scene. You can see the look of realization in her eyes as she understands she could have been killed, and she was never going to overpower Bonnet. And then finding out from Jamie why he didn't fight BJR. It was a bit odd for Jamie to tell Bree that killing Bonnet may not give her peace, but then he turns around and tells Murtagh to find Bonnet so he can kill him himself.
  #61  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:06 AM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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Well, we're winding down. Just two episodes left. I have some quibbles coming from a book reader perspective.

Some of this was a bit clunky. For instance, why would Jamie write Lord John all the way in Virginia to keep an eye on Bree and give him a letter to give her? Why not just give it to Murtagh? And who is keeping an eye on the livestock while Murtagh is hunting down Bonnet?

I thought Fergus had a job, that's part of the reason they stayed in Wilmington. Now he doesn't? Losing a limb was not unheard of back then, so I don't think it would be difficult finding a job he could work at. I do love feisty Marsali.

It was great to see Bree being all I am Women Hear Me Roar with Jocasta, until Jocasta pointed out it's not just her reputation that will suffer, but also her child. Bree still has some adjusting to do to this time period.

In the book, Bree sees Lord John leaving a slave cabin in the middle of the night, not nailing a judge in the pantry. It's implied Lord John has a "consensual" relationship with the slave, but I can understand the show not wanting to open up that particular can of worms. Still, sodomy was a hanging offense so I wish the writers had shown Lord John to be a bit more discreet.

At the end of the last episode Roger is shown about to touch the standing stones, with the implication being that he's going back. The open of this episode shows him back with the Mohawk. Something got lost there in the editing.

Did anyone catch Pippin as Gerald Forbes?
  #62  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:29 AM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I assumed he hallucinated seeing the stone, and the bathroom at the beginning of this episode?
  #63  
Old 01-14-2019, 08:53 AM
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No, he finds standing stones in America, as that will be important later. He did escape from the Mohawk.
  #64  
Old 01-17-2019, 03:13 PM
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Could I interject and ask a question as I on;y watched most of the first season and unless I missed one or two, I never understood the basic relationships premise. Before she first went into the past, did she hate her husband? Was he a jerk? I can't fathom the idea that because her husband's ancestor was a scumbag that she just falls for Jamie and decides to ditch her husband. Certainly not as fast as she did. I think I'd have to spend many years trapped in the past before I gave up on the idea that I might get back and maybe then I'd consider building a new "love" life. Please clue me in. Or is what I think I saw basically it.
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  #65  
Old 01-17-2019, 06:47 PM
Fir na tine Fir na tine is online now
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Claire was a nurse in WW2. I think the relationship could probably be called a wartime marriage. Didn't seem to be a deep abiding love match.

When she went through the stones and was forcibly married to Jamie, she fell in love with him. A true love affair between two vital people.

She only returned to Frank because she promised Jamie she'd leave rather than watch him presumably die at Culloden with his clan.

Read the books! They are well worth the time you invest.
  #66  
Old Yesterday, 08:35 AM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BwanaBob View Post
Could I interject and ask a question as I on;y watched most of the first season and unless I missed one or two, I never understood the basic relationships premise. Before she first went into the past, did she hate her husband? Was he a jerk? I can't fathom the idea that because her husband's ancestor was a scumbag that she just falls for Jamie and decides to ditch her husband. Certainly not as fast as she did. I think I'd have to spend many years trapped in the past before I gave up on the idea that I might get back and maybe then I'd consider building a new "love" life. Please clue me in. Or is what I think I saw basically it.
No, she didn't hate Frank. They were separated due to the war and were trying to reestablish their marriage in Scotland. The show, by necessity of time, has to collapse events...for instance, in the book, Jamie and Claire spend several months at River Run with Aunt Jocasta before going out on their own. They basically have 13 hours to tell the story on Starz when the author can spend pages and pages and pages on the written story.

I think if Claire hadn't gone back through the stone she would have been content with Frank, but Jamie was her heart, her passion.

Last edited by ivylass; Yesterday at 08:36 AM.
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