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  #51  
Old 01-02-2019, 08:20 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
She’s cute for sure. (McFarlane has good taste and good fortune.)

Anybody else think Isaac is quietly the MVP?
I don't understand the plot lines where the super intelligent robot is put in some subservient role despite showing better problem solving capabilities.

How many times did Data outsmart the entire crew on the enterprise? Yet he was 4th in command I think.
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  #52  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:14 AM
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It doesn’t seem that surprising that they would be a little leery of putting the superintelligent robot in charge, even if that would be the correct thing to do in some sense.

Remember the episode from last season in which the zookeeper would only talk to Isaac (and maybe Alara?) because he thought of the others as too unevolved to be taken seriously? From that perspective, Isaac is basically Jane Goodall or Dian Fossey.
  #53  
Old 01-03-2019, 01:48 AM
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I don't understand the plot lines where the super intelligent robot is put in some subservient role despite showing better problem solving capabilities.

How many times did Data outsmart the entire crew on the enterprise? Yet he was 4th in command I think.
Well, on a ship of several thousand, 4th in command is still pretty darn high on the chain.
  #54  
Old 01-03-2019, 06:00 AM
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I don't understand the plot lines where the super intelligent robot is put in some subservient role despite showing better problem solving capabilities.

How many times did Data outsmart the entire crew on the enterprise? Yet he was 4th in command I think.
<continuing the tangent...>

Problem-solving is just one part of the job of leading a starship. I would agree on star trek someone like Data is basically a fucking wizard because he can just macGiver up some tech to make him have whatever superpower he needs today (and then never use that tech again), but I still wouldn't put him in charge. For a start if he doesn't understand emotions how can he do the diplomacy and people management stuff?

And TNG is maybe not the best example of this kind of thing. I think they did a good job on that series of depicting a crew of exceptional people. Data vs Geordi is a tough call right away, let alone Data vs whole crew.

On Orville, Isaac is not evenly matched at all, but that's largely because it's a comedy show. Isaac is smart funny and most of the other characters are dumb funny, so the difference is huge.

Last edited by Mijin; 01-03-2019 at 06:01 AM.
  #55  
Old 01-03-2019, 09:36 AM
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My Navy experience was much closer to TNG than The Orville, though there are many significant differences. I like The Orville as a show, but most of the crew are unprofessional enough that they would have been drummed out years before they made any senior officer/department head level on a ship, much less the commanding or executive officer. The best Navy-ish TNG episode is "Lower Decks", IMO. Far from perfect, but gives a somewhat "realistic" picture about how the crew might interact day-to-day on a ship like the Enterprise.
I wasn't meaning in terms of the unprofessionalism, but the fact that the crewmen relate to each other as people, and are actually human outside of major plot development points. There's something... sterile about most of the Star Trek shows- character development is almost entirely within the context of plot drivers- there are very few throwaway lines or side stories that develop the characters. Subsequent series did a little bit better- the whole Harry Kim/Tom Paris bromance is an example. But they weren't consistent- Mayweather, Reed and Sato were essentially placeholders, while Archer, T'Pol and Tucker got most of the development, and even there, we never really knew what say... Trip did off duty.

The Orville does a much better job of that- it makes the characters more relatable, even if it's in the context of being unprofessional, and I suspect a lot of that is more in the context of it being something of a hybrid between a somewhat zany comedy and a serious science fiction/military show.
  #56  
Old 01-03-2019, 09:50 AM
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Loved the episode.

Digging the character development and the "office gossip". It's the most endearing part of the show.
  #57  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:49 AM
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I don't understand the plot lines where the super intelligent robot is put in some subservient role despite showing better problem solving capabilities.

How many times did Data outsmart the entire crew on the enterprise? Yet he was 4th in command I think.
Isaac isn't a member of the Union. He's an exchange officer from the independent robot planet so he's obviously not getting put in charge of everything.
  #58  
Old 01-03-2019, 07:29 PM
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Isaac isn't a member of the Union. He's an exchange officer from the independent robot planet so he's obviously not getting put in charge of everything.
He's also studying human behavior and has asked to be in some of the situations he's in, like attending the parents' meeting with the teacher. I like his relationship with Finn's boys, and how he listens to her when she explains why she doesn't do things how he thinks they should be done.
  #59  
Old 01-03-2019, 07:57 PM
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Yup, like I said: Jane Goodall, but with a blunter edge (to mix metaphors).
  #60  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:17 PM
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Regarding Ep 2.02: Don't run porn in the simulator if you CAN'T LOCK THE EFFING DOOR!
  #61  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:25 PM
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It hasn't aired on the west coast, so I'll spoiler it.

SPOILER:
I thought the episode spent far too much time on the porn plot and nowhere near enough on the rescue, which was criminally short shrifted.

You could have filled the entire show with the conflict involved in deciding who to choose. There are so many things that would make for great TV (someone rigs the choice, half of a family is left behind, even the the reaction of the aliens as they leave their world behind).
  #62  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:42 PM
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What a piece of drek.

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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
It hasn't aired on the west coast, so I'll spoiler it.

SPOILER:
I thought the episode spent far too much time on the porn plot and nowhere near enough on the rescue, which was criminally short shrifted.

You could have filled the entire show with the conflict involved in deciding who to choose. There are so many things that would make for great TV (someone rigs the choice, half of a family is left behind, even the the reaction of the aliens as they leave their world behind).
SPOILER:
Last week we got to focus on Bortus pissing. This week his sex life. I shudder to think what they'll show us next time.

And the rescue plot made zero sense.

They never bothered to ask WHAT SIZE are the aliens, anyway? before announcing how many trips the shuttle would have to make. Suppose they were the size of squirrels, they could have taken the lot in one load. If they were elephant sized? Maybe only one would fit in per trip. You really shouldn't assume every single sapient life form in the universe is exactly the size of a human in a rubber suit.

What was the point of the pilots having to get out of the shuttle anyway, and stroll slowly over to the hatch? Why not discuss the plan with the aliens on the way, and have the aliens waiting at the landing site in their radiation gear so Bortus wouldn't have needed to be exposed on the surface at all.

For that matter, why did they need to have TWO pilots on the shuttle? Just last episode the Captain took one out by himself. Why couldn't Isaac, who is apparently completely immune and super-competent at everything, have gone alone? Then they could have saved at least one more, or two if they'd picked children.


I couldn't believe how awful this episode was. Every single minute of it.

Last edited by StarvingButStrong; 01-03-2019 at 10:44 PM. Reason: screwed up spoiler tags
  #63  
Old 01-03-2019, 10:46 PM
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I haven't watched more than the Sunday episode of the new season, but the one thing the first season left me wishing for was some humor closer to Hyperdrive. I generally like the idea of an office comedy in space and I'm going to keep hoping it goes more in that direction.
  #64  
Old 01-03-2019, 11:05 PM
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Okay, spoilered for West Coasters:

SPOILER:


Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Regarding Ep 2.02: Don't run porn in the simulator if you CAN'T LOCK THE EFFING DOOR!
LOL, yeah: I was thinking the same. I guess we can fanwank (heh) it as being unlocked because of the virus.

Pretty good episode overall. I wonder what people who didn’t know it was from last season thought about Gordon suddenly having his sunburn again, or the new navigator character being nowhere to be seen.

The whole evacuation and lottery plot was a cool idea, but I agree with Chuck: it could have benefited from being given more time rather than being squeezed in near the end of the episode. I don’t think that means getting rid of elements of the porn plot so much as moving that to another episode. Although I guess the virus was a key aspect of that, so IDK. So, yeah, upon further reflection: tighten up that plot some to fit more of the other—although I guess there’s only so much they can do there if the problem is time.
  #65  
Old 01-04-2019, 07:09 AM
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Spoilering for those who haven't seen episode 2 yet.
SPOILER:
I thought that parts of the porn plot were really funny. The simulated Moclans trying to look sexy and pestering them while they were working in the control panel were hilarious.

Like others, I had problems with the rescue plot. Why was it necessary for Bortus to go along when Issac would have been sufficient?

Don't they have more than one shuttle? If they have two crew members that can withstand the radiation then why not send two shuttles?

Regarding Bortus' family situation; it seems like a large part of Klyden's problems stem from boredom.

Wouldn't it make sense for him to have some sort of civilian employment, maybe working in the galley or something? He wouldn't be cooped up in their cabin all day and would get to see and interact with other crew members. Their son looks old enough to be in school so he shouldn't require supervision during the day. By the way, he has certainly grown fast. I suppose that's normal for Moclans?
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Last edited by davidm; 01-04-2019 at 07:10 AM.
  #66  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:24 AM
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I agree with Realitychuck.

SPOILER:
The Moclan divorce method does have something to be said for it, though.
  #67  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:37 AM
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Spoilering for those who haven't seen episode 2 yet.
SPOILER:
I thought that parts of the porn plot were really funny. The simulated Moclans trying to look sexy and pestering them while they were working in the control panel were hilarious.

Like others, I had problems with the rescue plot. Why was it necessary for Bortus to go along when Issac would have been sufficient?

Don't they have more than one shuttle? If they have two crew members that can withstand the radiation then why not send two shuttles?
Those were all obvious concerns, and the Bortus subplot was necessary in the sense that they needed to ramp up the tension by having the virus hinder them. But it could have been cut considerably; it grew tedious and was too patly resolved.

The real conflict was in the rescue. The aliens should have been discovered well before the half hour point and there were some big issues that were glossed over. The aliens just accepted their lot and moved on, and the script made it even easier for them -- only 70? Why not 700? They should have been twisting the screws on the drama, not sloughing it off. Even the people who made it on the ship -- none of them were more than vaguely sad that everyone they knew was now dead. They should have been emotional wrecks, not just people sitting sadly in a ship.
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  #68  
Old 01-04-2019, 09:51 AM
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Spoilering for those who haven't seen episode 2 yet.
SPOILER:
I thought that parts of the porn plot were really funny. The simulated Moclans trying to look sexy and pestering them while they were working in the control panel were hilarious.

"My name's Dann..."
  #69  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:05 AM
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I think this was the first episode where I really re-examined my choice to watch the show. Damn that was a bad episode.

Bortus works well in small doses. The character can't carry an entire episode like this.
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  #70  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:37 AM
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Yeah, that episode definitely could have been better. But I did love the creepy alien porn/pill/what-have-you dealer
  #71  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:10 AM
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I think this was the first episode where I really re-examined my choice to watch the show. Damn that was a bad episode.
Haven't watched it yet. Was it really two hours? That's how much my DVD recorded.

One hour of what you all are describing would be bad enough, but two? yuk.
  #72  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:11 AM
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I'd say either plot would have made a fine episode on its own. Jamming them together didn't really work.
  #73  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:39 AM
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Two Bortascentric episodes in a row was not a good call.
  #74  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:48 AM
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Yeah, that episode definitely could have been better. But I did love the creepy alien porn/pill/what-have-you dealer
So did I- the face, in particular, was fantastic. This show, and Star Trek, needs more non-humanoid aliens.

I did wonder, though, why he didn't wear any sort of uniform or rank indication. It also really bothered me that the underground aliens looked completely human- so much so, that at first I wondered if they weren't aliens but rather a lost human colony.
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  #75  
Old 01-04-2019, 12:04 PM
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Yeah, that episode definitely could have been better. But I did love the creepy alien porn/pill/what-have-you dealer
Speaking of which, would have liked to have seen some follow-up on alien Lieutenant's fate. Given that he was the source of the virus in the first place, he should be well and truly on Ed's shit list.

Overall, however, really lazy writing, IMO. The Bortus A plot wore out its welcome pretty fast. Doomed Planet's residents look like a bunch of New Yorkers, despite no known previous contact with humanoid races, and of course just happen to be precisely the right stage of technological development to efficiently interact with the Orviille's crew. Isaac magics up a solution to a peril that was a completely unnecessary complication to a plot that had already been resolved, and seemed an afterthought inserted to pad out a slightly too-short script. Ugh.

Left an acrid whiff of late-season Next Gen, unfortunately.
  #76  
Old 01-04-2019, 12:24 PM
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I enjoyed both of this season's first two episodes, but agree the rescue was rushed (and why were only some of the aliens wearing the survival suits, anyway?). How to choose the survivors? A lottery's one way, but how about - since this is the last of their race - having every survivor being young and fertile enough to breed? Seeing the doctor explain, and do, couples counseling was interesting. I laughed when the Captain did a drive-by of the First Officer's cabin in a shuttlecraft. I also liked the Chief Engineer's bar pick-up simulation ("Level 10, she's married and has a gun"). Given all the erotic possibilities of a holodeck, I'm glad they did an episode on porn addiction.

The various incarnations of ST did have some scenes of the characters off-duty and letting their hair down: Kirk and McCoy drinking and talking, Spock playing his Vulcan lyre while Uhura sang, Picard and Dr. Crusher sharing meals, Data and Geordi joking around ("'Lunkhead'?"), Sisko and his son talking baseball, Dr. Bashir and O'Brien - and Paris and Kim - palling around, etc. But The Orville clearly has more.
  #77  
Old 01-04-2019, 12:42 PM
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One would think they could have sent more than one shuttle....
  #78  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:18 PM
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One would think they could have sent more than one shuttle....
... Possibly remote or computer piloted. We could do either right now, in the real world.
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  #79  
Old 01-04-2019, 01:52 PM
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One would think they could have sent more than one shuttle....
They had to make modifications to the shuttle for it to withstand... whatever it had to withstand. Presumably, they didn't have enough time to do 2 shuttles.
  #80  
Old 01-04-2019, 08:23 PM
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I hope the rest of the season is better. And I hope the rest of the season isn't about bortis.

I'd like to see more episodes about Isaac and his home planet if possible. That'd be interesting. How they turned into machines, who built them, how they've evolved, etc.
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  #81  
Old 01-04-2019, 09:07 PM
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When the aliens were discovered, and there were only 70 of them, it reminded me of the episode "Hide and Q" from NextGen, when Riker became a Q. They go to the planet they have to save from a disaster and ... there's only a few, like six, left. Are there any more? Nope, just us, the heavily injured lady. Cause, you know, a bleeding incoherent lady knows whats happening on the whole planet. Or and the dead little girl, who Riker can't raise from the dead, 'cause he promised Picard he wouldn't. Which depressed Data, for some reason.

Also reminds me of all the NextGen, "The Most Toys", when the trader steals Data. He poisoned the water supply, in the most obvious method possible -- just a few crystals, in one room.

OK. I realize that set space is limited and expensive, and while I can't suspend disbelief that far, I accept it. But there are probably too many episodes to count in tons of SciFi shows where a "planet-wide" calamity affects one room on camera. I let it slide in every other case, and I'm giving The Orville a gimmie. As for everyone else, YMMV.

NextGen did the episode "Inner Light" where Picard gets his flute. We watched what happens, over the span of a humanoid's lifespan, as a star goes to its more active phase and devastates the ecosystem. Remember it, and apply it to this planet in your head, before the escape action we saw happens. Probably there were other pockets of people. Probably on the whole 'nother side of the plant, and their radios were dead. Do you have fresh batteries at home, just in case? Think about it. How are you gonna signal a passing starship if the sun goes nova unexpectedly? Don't piss on these peopel's plan, we all got nothin'.
  #82  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:19 PM
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Incidentally, according to one review I've read the season was originally supposed to open with an unaired 13th episode from season 1, with this ep slated to come second. That order has been swapped around, for whatever reason.
My guess for the reason is that the plot of the unseen thirteen episode kicks off a story arc that continues into the season, while this was essentially a stand-alone episode that aired on a holiday weekend. No big deal if people missed it.
Well, I guess I was wrong. I thought they held back this episode (S2E2, or production code 1LAB12) because it was a cliffhanger or began a story arc that was going to continue over the second season or was just awesome. But the whole thing was nothing special.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 01-04-2019 at 10:20 PM.
  #83  
Old 01-04-2019, 10:31 PM
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“The Inner Light” is so great. Maybe my favorite episode of Trek. Good call on the connection.
  #84  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:24 PM
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Two Bortascentric episodes in a row was not a good call.
Yeah. First was Ok, 2nd was just too much.
  #85  
Old 01-04-2019, 11:53 PM
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Two Bortascentric episodes in a row was not a good call.
Heh, what if it's a running meta-joke and every episode this season has a heavy Bortas content - except for episode 8, when they slip in a plot featuring Tom Jones playing, "It's Not Unusual."
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  #86  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:06 AM
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I love this show. Right now it's my favorite show and I've really been looking forward to it coming back.

That said I was not happy with these two episodes. I don't care for the bad romance BS at all. Or any of the romance. I mean as a side plot maybe but both these episodes wasted so much time on it. I know we need character development and all but this is turning out to be more of a soap opera than a sci-fi show.

My 14 year old liked it last year but today she said she didn't even want to finish the episode. I thought it was the whole porn thing but she said it was "just stupid".
  #87  
Old 01-05-2019, 02:06 AM
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I loved this episode!

Yeah, I understand why many of you didn't, and that's cool. But to me, this episode signaled the transition of "The Orville" from TNG status to DS9 status. And I reaaaaaaly loves me some DS9. I hope they maintain the transition. Give me some down and dirty, ambiguous morality, impossible to decipher morality, and I'm a happy interstellar camper.
  #88  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:26 AM
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I will give props to Peter Macon, the actor who plays Bortus, and maybe the most complex personality on the show. He's managed to give independent life to a character that, as written, seemed basically a mashup of Spock and Worf, under about twenty pounds of makeup.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 01-05-2019 at 06:27 AM.
  #89  
Old 01-05-2019, 11:14 AM
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If the goal is to shed viewers they are on the right path. If it continues like this only the most hardcore fans will stick around.
  #90  
Old 01-05-2019, 12:08 PM
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I had no significant objection to the storylines/plots, but the "funny" lines were just...so...not. Mercer insulting Isaac out of the blue for the sake of a tired Speak & Spell joke, Kelly correcting Mercer's pronunciation of the minister's name (how awkward and stiff was that banter?!), etc. Some really bad "comedy" writing. And I'm usually good with MacFarlane's sense of humor.
  #91  
Old 01-05-2019, 12:40 PM
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I don't think it was out of the blue at all. The little insult session towards Isaac was my favorite part of the episode. Isaac always has an air of arrogance about him. It's not just that he's a superior being, but he has to gently remind us with every statement how much better it is and how it bothers him ever so slightly to have to deal with regular biological organisms.

When Grayson said "he's such a dick" it was totally justified and pretty funny.
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Old 01-05-2019, 12:51 PM
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But Isaac can't help being that way, and everyone knows it. I didn't remember Kelly or Mercer ever expressing any real animosity toward him before -- plus, he has proven to be useful (such as saving the life of the doc and her kids) -- so I found it jarring and unfunny for them both to suddenly be mean, and dismissive of a member of their crew. *shrugs*
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Old 01-05-2019, 01:01 PM
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I think he could help being that way. Part of his character is that he gives subtle hints of exasperation at human failings and talks down to people all the time. He likes to remind people of their inferiority. In terms of "office gossip" we're talking about, talking shit about Isaac is funny to me.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 01-05-2019 at 01:02 PM.
  #94  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Given all the erotic possibilities of a holodeck, I'm glad they did an episode on porn addiction.
The idea of the porn possibilities of a holodeck was touched on in the documentary Trekkies, about Star Trek fandom. At the end, the film showed bits and pieces of stand-up comedy routines that were about Star Trek. One guy pictured a fourteen-year-old Wesley Crusher locked in a holodeck, as Picard stood outside, trying to talk him down.

"Wesley, perhaps you should talk to Counselor Troi."

"She's in here with me" as the comedian mimed sexual motions.

And actually, in the previous episode, Marcus and his buddies used the holodeck as merely an empty room in which to drink purloined vodka. I can't imagine having access to such a technology and not using it whenever I could. Even if they don't want to have a porn experience with the other guys in the room (and I'll bet that there are age restrictions on the technology) surely there are G- or PG-rated experiences that would be a hell of a lot of fun. How about a holodeck Disneyworld-type ride, or a scuba diving adventure, or rock climbing?
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:06 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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But Isaac can't help being that way, and everyone knows it. I didn't remember Kelly or Mercer ever expressing any real animosity toward him before -- plus, he has proven to be useful (such as saving the life of the doc and her kids) -- so I found it jarring and unfunny for them both to suddenly be mean, and dismissive of a member of their crew. *shrugs*
Same here, especially considering that Isaac is willing to risk his life for other people.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:15 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is online now
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Same here, especially considering that Isaac is willing to risk his life for other people.
He is still a dick.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:41 PM
Folacin Folacin is online now
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Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong View Post
What a piece of drek.

They never bothered to ask WHAT SIZE are the aliens, anyway? before announcing how many trips the shuttle would have to make. Suppose they were the size of squirrels, they could have taken the lot in one load. If they were elephant sized? Maybe only one would fit in per trip. You really shouldn't assume every single sapient life form in the universe is exactly the size of a human in a rubber suit.
This is the sort of criticism that drives me nuts - why would they waste screen time on discussions of the nitty-gritty details? I assume you were happy that they actually discussed Moclan urinary habits (since another standard criticism is "why no bathrooms on the Enterprise?"). Until the virus bollixed things up, they weren't having any trouble talking to the planet.

All of those questions (like can you breathe Earth normal atmosphere (real bummer if nitrogen is poisonous to them)) can easily be presumed to have happened. And not showing them gave us yet another opportunity to see sexy Moclans.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:46 PM
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All of those questions (like can you breathe Earth normal atmosphere (real bummer if nitrogen is poisonous to them)) can easily be presumed to have happened. And not showing them gave us yet another opportunity to see sexy Moclans.
Star Trek could use sensors to examine the atmosphere; perhaps the Union has the same sort of thing.
  #99  
Old 01-05-2019, 05:55 PM
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I'll give them one more swing at bat but this season is disappointing so far.

I'll defend against many of the complaints voiced here. The porn addiction plot was the only plot and the saving the few, the lottery, so on, was there only to serve for its impact on Bortis and his relationship with Klyden. The impact of the conflict they had over such a major decision about their child was something that needed to be addressed.

I am along with others fine with this being relationship focused.

Problem is the relation focus so far has been trite and sophomoric. Falling into a porn addiction as a reaction to emotional distance? Could have been believable and funny in an absurd tragiocomic way. Instead it was neither belivable or funny. It came off instead as LAZY. Season one they succeeded in having relationships that I cared about, written well, with some solid amount of actual funny mixed in. I care less about the characters now (including Bortis) two episodes in to this season than I did during most of the first and the jokes are rarely striking me as funny. Instead they are just distancing me from the characters. It is not that it is not mission driven; it is that it is not resonating as characters clicking together.

Please be better next ep! Last season was SO good!
  #100  
Old 01-05-2019, 07:42 PM
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davidm davidm is offline
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Thinking about the environmental simulator; it strikes me that they should have programmed limits, so that an individual could only use it X hours a week or whatever and would have to schedule a time. This could reduce the risk of addiction.

Certain canned programs involving group activities such as sports, pool tables, bowling alleys, dance clubs, etc. could have higher limits as long as more than one crew member is present.
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