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Old 02-11-2019, 12:20 AM
Velocity Velocity is online now
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Is the bad/wrong side usually more motivated than the good/right side?

IMHO, where there is a right side and a wrong side, the wrong side will usually be more enthusiastic, die-hard and motivated for its cause than the good guys.

This isn't to say that the good guys can't win - they often do anyway, due to superior technology, leadership, numbers, votes, resources or whatnot - but that the bad guys, or wrong ideology, or falsehood/myth, often has more energy and motivation going for it than the good side.

If anyone else feels this way too - why is this so?
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:29 AM
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Can you give an example?
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:36 AM
Velocity Velocity is online now
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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
Can you give an example?
One that comes to mind is Islamic suicide bombers and Japanese kamikazes. They were fanatically willing to die in a way that few if any American/Allied troops were. (Not that the latter are necessarily good guys, but no analogy is perfect)
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:53 AM
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W. B. Yeats felt that way exactly 100 years ago:
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
The Second Coming (1919)

Why? That could be a question for the ages. My guess is that it has to do with how existential fear motivates people to do bad things.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:15 AM
Richard Pearse Richard Pearse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
IMHO, where there is a right side and a wrong side, the wrong side will usually be more enthusiastic, die-hard and motivated for its cause than the good guys.

This isn't to say that the good guys can't win - they often do anyway, due to superior technology, leadership, numbers, votes, resources or whatnot - but that the bad guys, or wrong ideology, or falsehood/myth, often has more energy and motivation going for it than the good side.

If anyone else feels this way too - why is this so?
There is no “good side” and “bad side”. From the perspective of the suicide bombers and kamikaze pilots, they are on the good side. So one part of your hypothesis is subjective. The other part isn’t, so they can’t really be correlated. I suspect the weaker side probably tends to be more enthusiastic / die hard etc. The Japanese didn’t have kamikaze pilots because they were on the bad side, they had them because they were losing the war and desperate.

A counter to your hypothesis is England during the Battle of Britain. They were more enthusiastic, motivated, and die-hard for their cause because they were initially on the back foot, and desperate. I don’t think you’d suggest they were on the “bad side” though.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:43 AM
guizot guizot is offline
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Originally Posted by Richard Pearse View Post
There is no “good side” and “bad side”. From the perspective of the suicide bombers and kamikaze pilots, they are on the good side. So one part of your hypothesis is subjective.
Yeah -- everyone thinks he's the good guy, including mass shooters. They see in movies that the protagonist always wins the shootouts, no matter what, so of course that seems like a good solution for their violent tendencies.
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:35 AM
shunpiker shunpiker is offline
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I would propose that the "motivation" that you reference is more akin to narrow-focus. They're not able to see a larger picture or place value within a more complex situation.

That being said... yes, bad guys are typically more narrowly focused, i.e. selfish.

Last edited by shunpiker; 02-11-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:52 PM
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Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:01 PM
PastTense PastTense is online now
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Besides the good side and the bad side there is often the indifferent middle.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:13 PM
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The smaller upstart side is more motivated because you don't even notice smaller upstart sides when they're unmotivated. You notice larger the more established side whether it's motivated or not - the placid happy-with-their lot status quo is thus compared with the dissatisfied folks who are motivated enough to fight against it.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:51 PM
Littleman Littleman is online now
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
The smaller upstart side is more motivated because you don't even notice smaller upstart sides when they're unmotivated. You notice larger the more established side whether it's motivated or not - the placid happy-with-their lot status quo is thus compared with the dissatisfied folks who are motivated enough to fight against it.
Kind of what i was going to say.
The minority or underdog has to have motivation to have any effect.
Yet either the majority or the winners are perceived as right.

The winner writes history.

In the case of the dissatisfied who win it's the attention received that turns the majority to their side and voila they are now the placid majority but they are right. If they don't manage to turn the placid majority then haha they were nuts and clearly wrong.
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Old 02-11-2019, 07:57 PM
Littleman Littleman is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
One that comes to mind is Islamic suicide bombers and Japanese kamikazes. They were fanatically willing to die in a way that few if any American/Allied troops were. (Not that the latter are necessarily good guys, but no analogy is perfect)
I think you're alluding to the fact they had kamikazes and we indescriminately wiped whole cities off the face of the Earth , men women , children, and non combatants alike.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:00 PM
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No, but it's an excellent unguent for losers to massage into their smarting nethers. Case in point: The Gun Control faction in the USA.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:11 PM
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Evil obeys no limits or laws. Good does--that's its nature.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:25 PM
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In the case of those who are supporting something that is clearly at odds with the facts, it may be that those who are more motivated to begin with are more able to ignore those facts.

Perhaps less emotionally driven people are more able to evaluate and adjust their beliefs.
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:44 AM
Horatius Horatius is offline
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I think it's because you have to be more motivated to support the "wrong side" enough to actually do anything.


You don't build Auschwitz unless you really believe that killing all the Jews is a really great idea.

In comparison, it's relatively easy for the unmotivated to support "good" causes. You can support the Girl Scouts by just buying a box of cookies. You can support cancer research by just donating a few bucks. You can support local schools by just donating empty beer bottles during a bottle drive.
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