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Old 12-28-2018, 10:27 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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The mind is pictures?

https://browardmeditation.org/what-i...tion/overview/

I know I post stuff like this too much, but it just bugs me. I am not well versed in philosophy and when I tried to study it lets just say disaster followed.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:24 PM
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A) If I'm reading your link correctly, the author is saying that meditation is looking at your life as a series of experiences, not that your mind only processes things as pictures.

B) Or perhaps the author is using the word "picture" as a metaphor for "visualize" rather than trying to think things out in words and sentences.

C) Or perhaps the phrasing is deliberately indistinct and new-age to lure you into taking the class, where they can load you up with self-improvement books and advanced classes to get more of your money.

Whichever answer is closest to the real truth, you're overthinking it. If you want to puzzle over something worthwhile, ask yourself why a meditation center in Florida has three testimonials from people in Sweden, and another one from someone in New Jersey, and they only use first names.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:27 PM
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It's reasonable to say the mind is an accumulation of patterns. Not necessarily just pictures, as there are auditory components, olfactory components, etc.; and then there are the higher-level concepts such as emotions and various social constructs (including religion and... philosophy), which our minds also store as patterns.

There are claims that meditation can allow a person to examine their own patterns, and especially their own emotions, in a detached manner and adjust their reactions, etc. to improve their quality of life. (That seems to tie in with some tenets of Buddhism.) But "to know and become Truth", that sounds like woo.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:44 PM
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These pictures are an accumulation of past experiences which are taken through the eyes, ears, nose, mouth, and body.
Seems like they are using the term "picture" to mean a captured experience through any/all senses.

Edit:
I missed the word "accumulation" when I was reading it, so not sure

Last edited by RaftPeople; 12-28-2018 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:48 PM
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OP, really you know you're obsessing over this stuff. You keep trying to get answers from the people here for these weird, way out, new wavy ideas and questions. It's never gonna satisfy you. There's not enough time left in my life to explain your life to you. Thoughtful quiet soul searching is all you or anyone has. Try to just accept you'll never have all the answers. No one or No quack group can give them to you. Just try to be happy. That's really all anyone can do.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 12-28-2018 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:03 AM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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It's reasonable to say the mind is an accumulation of patterns. Not necessarily just pictures, as there are auditory components, olfactory components, etc.; and then there are the higher-level concepts such as emotions and various social constructs (including religion and... philosophy), which our minds also store as patterns.

There are claims that meditation can allow a person to examine their own patterns, and especially their own emotions, in a detached manner and adjust their reactions, etc. to improve their quality of life. (That seems to tie in with some tenets of Buddhism.) But "to know and become Truth", that sounds like woo.
Somehow I don't think that's it.

I read a pamphlet and found it said that in the realm of mind you live you die and that's it. But taking the course and meditation somehow leads to eternity and freedom, I can't remember much.

My best guess, give how bad I am at philosophy. Is that they regard sensory experience as the false mind, and that how you were before all that is the true you. But somehow I doubt that since humans aren't born blank slates. They also don't say how that is false other than their say so. Lastly I scratch my head at "become" truth.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:05 AM
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OP, really you know you're obsessing over this stuff. You keep trying to get answers from the people here for these weird, way out, new wavy ideas and questions. It's never gonna satisfy you. There's not enough time left in my life to explain your life to you. Thoughtful quiet soul searching is all you or anyone has. Try to just accept you'll never have all the answers. No one or No quack group can give them to you. Just try to be happy. That's really all anyone can do.
The problem with that is that I think that because I don't have a counter to them that makes them "right" and that I must accept and live by their words.

Apparently I prize being right above all else. Unfortunately I'm also incredibly credulous and tend to get swept up in stuff like this all the time.

To put it another way I believe they are living the correct way and by not accepting their words I am living life the wrong way or living a lie.

Last edited by Machinaforce; 12-29-2018 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 12-29-2018, 12:31 AM
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Jeez, I hope you didn't pay a bunch of cash for this group. It's not helping you, if they only succeed in making you feel bad and unhappy. You may as well pay someone to stick pins under your fingernails.
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Old 12-29-2018, 03:14 AM
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The problem with that is that I think that because I don't have a counter to them that makes them "right" and that I must accept and live by their words.

Apparently I prize being right above all else. Unfortunately I'm also incredibly credulous and tend to get swept up in stuff like this all the time.

To put it another way I believe they are living the correct way and by not accepting their words I am living life the wrong way or living a lie.
That''s certainly a problematic outlook; you could spend your life distraught at not nailing the Truth from a multitude of philosophical outlooks, the irony being that they're largely (literally) selling the concept of contentment.
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Old 12-29-2018, 08:36 AM
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Um, anybody who uses the word "pictures" when they mean "memories" probably doesn't have the best communication skills.

Either that, or they have The Way We Were stuck in their head.
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Old 12-29-2018, 04:30 PM
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That''s certainly a problematic outlook; you could spend your life distraught at not nailing the Truth from a multitude of philosophical outlooks, the irony being that they're largely (literally) selling the concept of contentment.
The weird thing is that I was fine and content before any of this “truth” stuff. The big questions didn’t matter. Now it’s like “if you don’t listen you are living a lie and will suffer”.
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Old 12-29-2018, 05:51 PM
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To put it another way I believe they are living the correct way and by not accepting their words I am living life the wrong way or living a lie.
You seem to have a questioning and inquiring mind. I think you should devote some of that questioning energy into this statement you just wrote. Where did it come from? What is it based on? Does it make sense? Is it likely to be true?
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Old 12-29-2018, 07:04 PM
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The problem with that is that I think that because I don't have a counter to them that makes them "right" and that I must accept and live by their words.
Why?

Let’s say I tell you I’ve got a magic sword, adding that you thus must accept and live by my words. Let’s also say you’re in no position to counter my claims: you can’t see whether I’ve even got a sword, so you can’t readily dispute that assertion; and you presumably can’t just declare that my sword — if I have one — is magic; and, after all, how can you counter a claim that folks have to accept and live by a guy’s words if he’s got a magic sword? So long as I insist that I’m “right” about that, where the heck can you find proof that I’m “wrong”?

So will you accept and live by my words? Or will you say, er, isn’t that silly?
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:32 AM
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Why?

Let’s say I tell you I’ve got a magic sword, adding that you thus must accept and live by my words. Let’s also say you’re in no position to counter my claims: you can’t see whether I’ve even got a sword, so you can’t readily dispute that assertion; and you presumably can’t just declare that my sword — if I have one — is magic; and, after all, how can you counter a claim that folks have to accept and live by a guy’s words if he’s got a magic sword? So long as I insist that I’m “right” about that, where the heck can you find proof that I’m “wrong”?

So will you accept and live by my words? Or will you say, er, isn’t that silly?
I got a little lost trying to follow all of that to be honest.
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Old 12-30-2018, 02:34 AM
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You seem to have a questioning and inquiring mind. I think you should devote some of that questioning energy into this statement you just wrote. Where did it come from? What is it based on? Does it make sense? Is it likely to be true?
I do, but it’s also fragile. As in I don’t take well when what I build my life on is challenged. I know in some logical corner that the statement I wrote doesn’t make much sense. But it’s the fear of being wrong and living a lie that overwrites all that.

I mean the link mentions a false self that must be cleansed. I don’t know how to respond to such things.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:06 AM
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I do, but it’s also fragile. As in I don’t take well when what I build my life on is challenged. I know in some logical corner that the statement I wrote doesn’t make much sense. But it’s the fear of being wrong and living a lie that overwrites all that.

I mean the link mentions a false self that must be cleansed. I don’t know how to respond to such things.
Then it''s likely not wise to have the foundations of your well-being built on some arbitrarily selected teachings.

You have your basic animal, material existence - eat, shit, be happy, be sad, maybe reproduce, die. Any sense of self beyond that is a construct, be that human or (if you must) divine. Given the plethora of philosophy providers out there, why give credence to one which immediately undermines you from the outset?

Unless you're living your life in a particularly destructive, dickish way, why do you need 'cleansing'? And if you could recognise you were living in such a way you would know what needs fixing, and don't need some spiritual charlatan's help.
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Old 12-30-2018, 06:44 AM
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I got a little lost trying to follow all of that to be honest.
Oh, well, then, let me try again.

You said: “I think that because I don't have a counter to them that makes them "right" and that I must accept and live by their words.”

So imagine I say “I have a magic sword, so you must accept and live by my words.” Let’s take that one by one: tell me if you can counter each claim.

CLAIM #1: I Have A Sword.

Can you “counter” that? Can you prove I don’t have a sword?

CLAIM #2: My Sword Is Magic.

Can you “counter” that? Can you dispute that my sword is magic?

CLAIM #3: You Should Live By The Words Of A Guy With A Magic Sword.

Can you “counter” that? Do you have any first-hand knowledge about a guy who has a magic sword — specifically, that he shouldn’t be heeded and obeyed?
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:08 AM
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Oh, well, then, let me try again.

You said: “I think that because I don't have a counter to them that makes them "right" and that I must accept and live by their words.”

So imagine I say “I have a magic sword, so you must accept and live by my words.” Let’s take that one by one: tell me if you can counter each claim.

CLAIM #1: I Have A Sword.

Can you “counter” that? Can you prove I don’t have a sword?

CLAIM #2: My Sword Is Magic.

Can you “counter” that? Can you dispute that my sword is magic?

CLAIM #3: You Should Live By The Words Of A Guy With A Magic Sword.

Can you “counter” that? Do you have any first-hand knowledge about a guy who has a magic sword — specifically, that he shouldn’t be heeded and obeyed?
The first one I can accept.

The second one is on them to prove. While they might have a sword I don’t know if the sword is magic.

The last one doesn’t seem to follow from the first two. But since this is referring to the claims that one is “right” about he correct way to live I don’t think the magic sword but works here.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:09 AM
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Then it''s likely not wise to have the foundations of your well-being built on some arbitrarily selected teachings.

You have your basic animal, material existence - eat, shit, be happy, be sad, maybe reproduce, die. Any sense of self beyond that is a construct, be that human or (if you must) divine. Given the plethora of philosophy providers out there, why give credence to one which immediately undermines you from the outset?

Unless you're living your life in a particularly destructive, dickish way, why do you need 'cleansing'? And if you could recognise you were living in such a way you would know what needs fixing, and don't need some spiritual charlatan's help.
Because according to them I am living a lie and will suffer unless I listen and follow them. According to them my way is “wrong”.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:16 AM
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Because according to them I am living a lie and will suffer unless I listen and follow them. According to them my way is “wrong”.
Why do you care what "they" say?
Out of the billions of "theys" in the world, how do you pick one(s) to listen to?
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:36 AM
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The first one I can accept.

The second one is on them to prove. While they might have a sword I don’t know if the sword is magic.

The last one doesn’t seem to follow from the first two. But since this is referring to the claims that one is “right” about he correct way to live I don’t think the magic sword but works here.
Well, that’s promising, I guess.

So see if you can do likewise with what made you start this thread: you likewise don’t know if they’re right, and so it’s once again on them to prove it — and not on you to counter it — right? And you just now showed that you’re capable of telling me a given claim “doesn’t seem to follow” from other claims, so — well, keep that at the ready, too, in case they say a thing that doesn’t seem to follow.

Because, well, why not treat them the way you treat me: noting that it’s not on you to counter, but on them to prove; and noting when something doesn’t seem to follow? You can clearly do that when reading my stuff; why not do it to theirs?
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Old 12-30-2018, 12:46 PM
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The second one is on them to prove. While they might have a sword I don’t know if the sword is magic.
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Because according to them I am living a lie and will suffer unless I listen and follow them. According to them my way is “wrong”.
How do you know that you are living a lie? Isn't on them to prove that you are living a lie and that you will suffer unless you listen to them? Why are you willing to show some critical analysis in the magic sword scenario but not in seemingly any philosophical one?
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:09 PM
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Why do you care what "they" say?
Out of the billions of "theys" in the world, how do you pick one(s) to listen to?
My guess is that I perceive them to know better and when I see or read people praise them I tend to believe that they might be on to something. Like this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ipuzr3HGTQ4
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:30 PM
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My guess is that I perceive them to know better and when I see or read people praise them I tend to believe that they might be on to something.
...there are, what, a billion Catholics in the world? What the heck happens when you see or read plenty of them praising the Pope? And there are a billion Muslims, and a billion Hindus; would you “tend to believe that they might be on to something” once enough of either of them express praise for this or that?

Help me out, here: how much praise do you need to see or read for something else before you’d give it as much benefit of the doubt as you’re giving this?
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Old 12-30-2018, 10:25 PM
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Try to think what YOU believe. Not what someone tells you to believe. No one has your best interest in mind more than yourself. Personally l would quit reading and listening to that stuff. You may as well watch Star Trek exclusively and get your morals/spiritual views from Spock. Good as any. IMHO.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:32 AM
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Well, that’s promising, I guess.

So see if you can do likewise with what made you start this thread: you likewise don’t know if they’re right, and so it’s once again on them to prove it — and not on you to counter it — right? And you just now showed that you’re capable of telling me a given claim “doesn’t seem to follow” from other claims, so — well, keep that at the ready, too, in case they say a thing that doesn’t seem to follow.

Because, well, why not treat them the way you treat me: noting that it’s not on you to counter, but on them to prove; and noting when something doesn’t seem to follow? You can clearly do that when reading my stuff; why not do it to theirs?
Well the sites I list tend to disparage logical thinking and point to some sort of mystical understanding. In other words special knowledge. Considering I was raised on “mysticism” through my mother I could have a bias to such claims.
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Old 12-31-2018, 12:41 AM
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...there are, what, a billion Catholics in the world? What the heck happens when you see or read plenty of them praising the Pope? And there are a billion Muslims, and a billion Hindus; would you “tend to believe that they might be on to something” once enough of either of them express praise for this or that?

Help me out, here: how much praise do you need to see or read for something else before you’d give it as much benefit of the doubt as you’re giving this?
Judging by likes on YouTube videos at least 20.

I know the argument doesn’t make sense. I have use those examples myself against me. But in my mind THIS is the exception (god knows how many times I’ve said that), and that if I have nothing to replace their words with our say why I dismiss it then I am guilty of being closed minded and confirmation bias.

Like in the YouTube video I linked. It seems like the guy knows something but really I’m just basing that on the claims people make of him being some wise man. “Mysticism” has been a hard thing for me to shake off. Not to mention that if I disagree with someone about this guy and I fail to convince them as to why I don’t agree I believe myself to be in the wrong (even though logically I tell myself what if the other person is, though it never works).

It’s like part of me makes the logical points you guys too, but the fear and the other part doesn’t listen.

Last edited by Machinaforce; 12-31-2018 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 12-31-2018, 08:42 AM
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...Like in the YouTube video I linked. It seems like the guy knows something but really I’m just basing that on the claims people make of him being some wise man. “Mysticism” has been a hard thing for me to shake off. Not to mention that if I disagree with someone about this guy and I fail to convince them as to why I don’t agree I believe myself to be in the wrong (even though logically I tell myself what if the other person is, though it never works)...
That YouTube guru certainly looks and acts the part - but what he actually says in the video is fairly bland, if generally agreeable stuff. Just because someone spouts some things which are undeniable, doesn't mean they know the rest of the Truth. If I reeled off some world capital cities correctly, would you then also feel obliged to agree with me that the Earth is flat?

I also see a certain hypocrisy in teaching people to give up their wordly attachments, when I expect that 7-day meditation course doesn't come cheap.

And I wouldn't follow anyone who wears their wristwatch on the underside of their wrist.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:15 AM
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Not to mention that if I disagree with someone about this guy and I fail to convince them as to why I don’t agree I believe myself to be in the wrong (even though logically I tell myself what if the other person is, though it never works).
Yet you don't have a problem with the magic sword scenario, why is that?
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Old 12-31-2018, 01:03 PM
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Well the sites I list tend to disparage logical thinking and point to some sort of mystical understanding. In other words special knowledge. Considering I was raised on “mysticism” through my mother I could have a bias to such claims.
You "could" have a bias in that direction, but this and previous threads indicate you are desperately trying to find a rational reason to justify your belief. But if you don't actually believe it (whatever IT is), then you're not going to accept it as "truth."

So decide whether you want to believe because "it feels right" or whether you have to drill down and find causes and reasons for everything.
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Old 01-01-2019, 12:39 PM
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You "could" have a bias in that direction, but this and previous threads indicate you are desperately trying to find a rational reason to justify your belief. But if you don't actually believe it (whatever IT is), then you're not going to accept it as "truth."

So decide whether you want to believe because "it feels right" or whether you have to drill down and find causes and reasons for everything.
In the past what “feels right” hasn’t always been right. The problem is that the logic and reasoning that I initially show is subsumed by fear. I know the people on this thread make good points and I have considered them before, but they don’t take root. It’s the fear of being wrong and then being right that takes over.

This isn’t the first time, it’s pretty much the same with every new thing. The rational response I start with gets lost.
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Old 01-01-2019, 12:41 PM
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Yet you don't have a problem with the magic sword scenario, why is that?
I guess because it just seems so ridiculous and the fact that you used it as an example that I don’t take it seriously. It’s not like someone telling you how to live. Like how they can make more out of their lives with less and that “enhancing your life” is “wrong” (at least I think that’s what the video said. It’s this feeling like you’re doing something wrong living life your way.
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Old 01-01-2019, 02:30 PM
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...It’s this feeling like you’re doing something wrong living life your way.
I would urge you to question the motives of self-proclaimed wise men who seek to undermine your way of life while offering a magic solution. If they are selling residential meditation packages, you could surmise their motives aren't entirely selfless and benevolent.
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Old 01-01-2019, 02:50 PM
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It’s not like someone telling you how to live.
Sure it is. The magic sword just pushes it to an extreme, but it has the exact same amount of evidence as this latest new silly philosophy you've latched on to. You just aren't willing to let yourself look critically at philosophy as long as people wrap it in pretty language and speak in impossible to prove generalities. Why that is, is up to you to figure out. But like pretty much every thread you've started here, it all pivots on you being willing to use critical reasoning. Until you do that you're never going to break the cycle you seem to be in.
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Old 01-02-2019, 01:12 PM
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Sure it is. The magic sword just pushes it to an extreme, but it has the exact same amount of evidence as this latest new silly philosophy you've latched on to. You just aren't willing to let yourself look critically at philosophy as long as people wrap it in pretty language and speak in impossible to prove generalities. Why that is, is up to you to figure out. But like pretty much every thread you've started here, it all pivots on you being willing to use critical reasoning. Until you do that you're never going to break the cycle you seem to be in.
The thing is I do, but for some reason I don’t believe me when I use it.
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Old 01-15-2019, 01:57 PM
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Having spoken to someone who was there it came down to how you are the universe and that you aren’t alive. I just smiled and nodded even though the questions I asked didn’t really get answers and that it ended with trying to get me to go to the class. Apparently you have to meditate to “get it” or you have to live it to understand it.

She said that we think we live in a universe but that universe is me (you). That the world we live in is of our minds but that we really are the universe and we must cleanse the false mind. Plus some things about living to the age of the universe (instead of whatever chronological age you are) and something about knowing all things.

None of it made a lick of sense to me and the more I listened the less it did. It sounded like Buddhism but I don’t think so. I tried to ask how one can be a mother or married if they believe such teachings or practice detachment and abandoning things, but i didn’t get an answer. Well not one that answers my question. It almost felt like I was talking to someone who lived in a different world. But it always ended with: you have to live it to get it, you have to meditate, specifically meditate there to get it.

Strange thing is that despite the “waste of time” it was I can’t shake giving her the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:02 PM
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Strange thing is that despite the “waste of time” it was I can’t shake giving her the benefit of the doubt.
Then there's literally nothing we can do for you here.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:11 PM
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Then there's literally nothing we can do for you here.
Well my thought process is that because she believes it that there must be something to it. I know that the molecules and atoms that our bodies are made of come from the universe. Though it is a stretch to say that you are the universe. You are the body which is part of and included in all that, but not the whole thing.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:12 PM
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Because according to them I am living a lie and will suffer unless I listen and follow them. According to them my way is “wrong”.
Organizations like The Church of Scientology are full of people who buy into that notion. They make hundreds of millions of dollars from people who feel that they are somehow "wrong" or "lost". Don't fall for it. See a shrink and get some perspective on yourself.
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Old 01-15-2019, 03:54 PM
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Well my thought process is that because she believes it that there must be something to it.
Again, there's nothing we on a message board can do for you.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:31 PM
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Well my thought process is that because she believes it that there must be something to it.
I don't believe it. There must be something to that.

Be careful though - if the two of us ever come into physical contact her belief and my anti-belief will both instantly convert to energy in a giant explosion. This sort of thing is why I don't leave the house much - too dangerous.

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I know that the molecules and atoms that our bodies are made of come from the universe. Though it is a stretch to say that you are the universe. You are the body which is part of and included in all that, but not the whole thing.
Cake has eggs in it; that doesn't mean cake is eggs. Cake has sugar in it; that doesn't mean eggs are sugar.

I'm not sure where I was going with that. (Is that a problem?)

Last edited by begbert2; 01-15-2019 at 04:31 PM. Reason: typo.
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:40 PM
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It's just that I fall for personal experience even though it's not really "proof".
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:09 PM
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It's just that I fall for personal experience even though it's not really "proof".
Do not be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
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Old 01-15-2019, 05:10 PM
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The thing to remember is that stuff like meditation and new-ageness and bongs and that whole business all demonstrate effects in mindsets, moods, and feelings, and claim that these experiences they're having prove some theory or another about reality as a whole.

The experiences can be real without the theories being right. It's entirely possible for people to be wrong about why things are happening, even when the things are happening to their own minds and emotions. Especially when the things are happening to their own minds and emotions, rather - they're hardly objective observers in those cases.
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Old 01-15-2019, 06:52 PM
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The thing to remember is that stuff like meditation and new-ageness and bongs and that whole business all demonstrate effects in mindsets, moods, and feelings, and claim that these experiences they're having prove some theory or another about reality as a whole.

The experiences can be real without the theories being right. It's entirely possible for people to be wrong about why things are happening, even when the things are happening to their own minds and emotions. Especially when the things are happening to their own minds and emotions, rather - they're hardly objective observers in those cases.
Well the phrase is something that "we live in our minds' when we really are the universe. That before us there was the universe, and we came from that.

Of course they didn't say HOW that was true. But you might be right. It seems like they have experiences and "insight" that are later rationalized.
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Old 01-15-2019, 07:14 PM
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Well the phrase is something that "we live in our minds' when we really are the universe. That before us there was the universe, and we came from that.

Of course they didn't say HOW that was true. But you might be right. It seems like they have experiences and "insight" that are later rationalized.
I hear that with the right mental states, whether chemically or naturally induced, you can feel also sorts of crazy things. You can find yourself deciding that all kinds of crazy things are true. You can find yourself profoundly believing that all sorts of crazy things are true.

I haven't tried any of this stuff myself, because I like my brain cells (we go way back), but I gather it's possible to get wonderful happy feelings that you and your neighbors and your neighbor's driveway asphalt are all connected. Deeply.

But that's just the drugs/altered state talking. In actuality your neihbor's asphalt doesn't care about you at all.
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Old 01-15-2019, 10:04 PM
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I hear that with the right mental states, whether chemically or naturally induced, you can feel also sorts of crazy things. You can find yourself deciding that all kinds of crazy things are true. You can find yourself profoundly believing that all sorts of crazy things are true.

I haven't tried any of this stuff myself, because I like my brain cells (we go way back), but I gather it's possible to get wonderful happy feelings that you and your neighbors and your neighbor's driveway asphalt are all connected. Deeply.

But that's just the drugs/altered state talking. In actuality your neihbor's asphalt doesn't care about you at all.
Flags were raised when she said "through this meditation you will realize that you aren't alive". Again coming back to "you are the universe".

I guess I just give people the benefit of the doubt too much. If they believe it I assume there is something to it (or maybe that it's some "crazy wisdom my conceptual mind can't grasp"). Though it was odd how every question I asked felt ignored (in the sense that she didn't address the concerns or meat behind them).
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:24 PM
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Flags were raised when she said "through this meditation you will realize that you aren't alive". Again coming back to "you are the universe".
Um, yeah. That would definitely be a red flag, because by any sensible definition of "alive", you're definitely it. (Or at least you were when you wrote that last post. Knock on wood?)

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I guess I just give people the benefit of the doubt too much. If they believe it I assume there is something to it (or maybe that it's some "crazy wisdom my conceptual mind can't grasp"). Though it was odd how every question I asked felt ignored (in the sense that she didn't address the concerns or meat behind them).
Honestly, at this point I'd recommend that you find friends who are less, well, woo. Play some board games. Video games. Maybe sports, if you're unlike me and have muscles attached to your bones. Find people you can do things with that are actually entertaining, rather than just confusing and weird. (And definitely avoid anybody who wants to sell you something, or get you to buy something they buy.)

In all seriousness, I'd invite you over to join me for my next board game night, but I strongly suspect you live nowhere near me. (And also I'm a weirdo stranger person, mustn't forget that.) We're probably going to play Zombicide. There's very little existential confusion in Zombicide.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:28 PM
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Um, yeah. That would definitely be a red flag, because by any sensible definition of "alive", you're definitely it. (Or at least you were when you wrote that last post. Knock on wood?)

Honestly, at this point I'd recommend that you find friends who are less, well, woo. Play some board games. Video games. Maybe sports, if you're unlike me and have muscles attached to your bones. Find people you can do things with that are actually entertaining, rather than just confusing and weird. (And definitely avoid anybody who wants to sell you something, or get you to buy something they buy.)

In all seriousness, I'd invite you over to join me for my next board game night, but I strongly suspect you live nowhere near me. (And also I'm a weirdo stranger person, mustn't forget that.) We're probably going to play Zombicide. There's very little existential confusion in Zombicide.
It’s just that I’m a sucker for “cryptic wisdom” or personal experience. There is also the idea In my mind that I need to list why I am rejecting a claim (provide evidence) but for some reason I need nothing to believe someone but their say so.

I end up assuming they are right about what they say and try to work out how they got their. Of course I see now that it is fallacious. You can’t just assume they are right and figure out how they got there they have to show you that. Unfortunately any attempt at questioning is shut down as “mind” or ego. But I don’t know why I give such credence to “mystics”. Personal experience is powerful since they say they had a revelation or how it changed their lives. Which in my mind translates to “they might be on to something”.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:21 PM
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So apparently she meant that "you are not living well" when she said you are not alive, because you are living in the world of the thoughts that come through your mind and not in the present. My guess is that we live our lives according to what we believe things and people to be (based on our senses) and not as they really are (empty, whatever that it). My question would be "how is that living well". What is wrong with thoughts? I know that sometimes we can get bogged down in the past and past experience and feelings can affect the present. But that's not always a bad thing and the reason we make decisions is based on the values we acquire through life. Throwing all that away doesn't seem practical or desirable. Because without any values we wouldn't do anything.

Seems like a "war" on subjectivity. Things mean differently to different people, how is that not reality? What part of that is false? That it's not inherent? So what? Who says the "world of thoughts" is less real than their claimed "actual one".
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