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  #151  
Old 02-06-2019, 05:51 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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Plus the stuff about abandoning things is rooted in Buddhism nonattachment. Since no achievement, item, relationship is permanent and lasting then one shouldn’t pursue them. But that’s misery. Letting go of family, hobbies, a career I love. Why would they preach such things? Don’t pursue anything because it won’t last anyway?
  #152  
Old 02-06-2019, 06:56 PM
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Plus the stuff about abandoning things is rooted in Buddhism nonattachment. Since no achievement, item, relationship is permanent and lasting then one shouldn’t pursue them. But that’s misery. Letting go of family, hobbies, a career I love. Why would they preach such things? Don’t pursue anything because it won’t last anyway?
Well, I consider all religions looneybats insane, so I'm not in a good position to defend Buddhism. My slim disinterested understanding of Buddhism is that they consider existence a problem and their entire religion is focused upon triggering the magic 'cheat code' of being so detached that reality allows them to cease existing. Why they think this is a good thing is their own problem - I reject the premise. Existence is not a bad thing - or at the very least nonexistence isn't better.

And even if things have no inherent value (and for the record I think they don't - value is always and only in the eyes of the beholder), that doesn't mean that things don't exist. That's stupid.

And for the record, I also think the notion that being eternal is somehow valuable is stupid - what good does that do? What does it matter if our molecules are old have once been in ancestors or dinosaurs or stars or not? They still do molecule stuff, and only molecule stuff. What stuff was before is irrelevant.

I'm not thinking me and Buddhists would see eye to eye on much.
  #153  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:14 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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Looking at the two, it seems like this center is some variation of Buddhism.

The letting go of everything, how they tell you to forsake “lower” pleasures for some “higher” happiness (in Buddhism they cite some monks as proof), that it’s pointless to pursue relationships, items, experiences, etc because they only provide a brief and fleeting pleasure and they don’t last.

It reminded me of why I stopped with Buddhism, too depressing. I don’t want to give up everything I love for some imagined happiness that may or may not exist (and I might even die before getting there).

Though I guess the good news is that conditioned means “depends on” not brainwashed. Small favors. I just wish I could forget Buddhism.
  #154  
Old 02-06-2019, 09:23 PM
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Or to say that this "higher" pleasure is worth discarding "lesser" ones.
  #155  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:07 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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Looking at something else, I don't think they meant it literally. This is an excerpt but I guess it reminds me not to take Eastern sayings literally:

"Just as a piece of paper is the fruit, the combination of many elements that can be called non-paper elements, the individual is made of non-individual elements. If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this sheet of paper. Without a cloud there will be no water; without water, the trees cannot grow; and without trees, you cannot make paper. So the cloud is in here. The existence of this page is dependent on the existence of a cloud. Paper and cloud are so close. Let us think of other things, like sunshine. Sunshine is very important because the forest cannot grow without sunshine, and we humans cannot grow without sunshine. So the logger needs sunshine in order to cut the tree, and the tree needs sunshine in order to be a tree. Therefore, you can see sunshine in this sheet of paper. And if you look more deeply, with the eyes of a bodhisattva, with the eyes of those who are awake, you see not only the cloud and the sunshine in it, but that everything is here: the wheat that became the bread for the logger to eat, the logger’s father—everything is in this sheet of paper.

The Avatamsaka Sutra tells us that you cannot point to one thing that does not have a relationship with this sheet of paper. So we say, “A sheet of paper is made of non-paper elements.” A cloud is a nonpaper element. The forest is a non-paper element. Sunshine is a non-paper element. The paper is made of all the non-paper elements to the extent that if we return the non-paper elements to their sources, the cloud to the sky, the sunshine to the sun, the logger to his father, the paper is empty. Empty of what? Empty of separate self. It has been made by all the non-self elements, non-paper elements, and if all these non-paper elements are taken out, it is truly empty, empty of an independent self. Empty, in this sense, means that the paper is full of everything, the entire cosmos. The presence of this tiny sheet of paper proves the presence of the whole cosmos."

I guess by that they mean that one is made of of elements of other things. Like we can't exist without water, food, light, etc.
  #156  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:13 PM
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Actually now that I think about it I don't think the "abandon" thing was meant literally either, more like just be there and meditate and then return to your regular life when the time is up. I guess then mean "just sit and meditate" and leave all that behind for a little while.
  #157  
Old 02-06-2019, 11:42 PM
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What still bothers me is the "pictures" bit. That there isn't anything inherent (no inherent value) and therefor it doesn't exist, it is just a phantom. But if that were true then they wouldn't preach compassion or liberating sentient beings, because that is technically a value. If there is no "inherent" good or bad then letting suffering persist or "illusion" would be the same as liberation. There would be no difference or preference.
Right, they are pushing ideas that are mutually exclusive. That's all the argument that you need against them. They're saying nonsense that sounds good because they don't have anything real to offer. They have no real philosophy, no real values, no therapy, no information, nothing of any benefit.
  #158  
Old 02-07-2019, 12:22 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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Right, they are pushing ideas that are mutually exclusive. That's all the argument that you need against them. They're saying nonsense that sounds good because they don't have anything real to offer. They have no real philosophy, no real values, no therapy, no information, nothing of any benefit.
What bothers me is how they say that pursuits that don’t result in permanent happiness are pointless. They refer to such things as a child with toys. Art, music, sex, etc are pointless pursuits because they don’t last and lead to craving. They pale in comparison to the “ultimate” happiness. Makes me feel like jotting I do is worthwhile because it doesn’t last (even though it didn’t bother me).
  #159  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:52 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Looking at something else, I don't think they meant it literally. This is an excerpt but I guess it reminds me not to take Eastern sayings literally:

"Just as a piece of paper is the fruit, the combination of many elements that can be called non-paper elements, the individual is made of non-individual elements. If you are a poet, you will see clearly that there is a cloud floating in this sheet of paper. Without a cloud there will be no water; without water, the trees cannot grow; and without trees, you cannot make paper. So the cloud is in here. The existence of this page is dependent on the existence of a cloud. Paper and cloud are so close. Let us think of other things, like sunshine. Sunshine is very important because the forest cannot grow without sunshine, and we humans cannot grow without sunshine. So the logger needs sunshine in order to cut the tree, and the tree needs sunshine in order to be a tree. Therefore, you can see sunshine in this sheet of paper. And if you look more deeply, with the eyes of a bodhisattva, with the eyes of those who are awake, you see not only the cloud and the sunshine in it, but that everything is here: the wheat that became the bread for the logger to eat, the logger’s father—everything is in this sheet of paper.

The Avatamsaka Sutra tells us that you cannot point to one thing that does not have a relationship with this sheet of paper. So we say, “A sheet of paper is made of non-paper elements.” A cloud is a nonpaper element. The forest is a non-paper element. Sunshine is a non-paper element. The paper is made of all the non-paper elements to the extent that if we return the non-paper elements to their sources, the cloud to the sky, the sunshine to the sun, the logger to his father, the paper is empty. Empty of what? Empty of separate self. It has been made by all the non-self elements, non-paper elements, and if all these non-paper elements are taken out, it is truly empty, empty of an independent self. Empty, in this sense, means that the paper is full of everything, the entire cosmos. The presence of this tiny sheet of paper proves the presence of the whole cosmos."

I guess by that they mean that one is made of of elements of other things. Like we can't exist without water, food, light, etc.
The question, of course, is why these "relationships" matter. Yes, the granola bar I ate yesterday has been consumed by me, and that's (sort of) a relationship. And the fecal matter I produced this morning was produced by me, so that's also a "relationship".

The question is what I'm supposed to get out of this. I mean, what I get out of it is that I need to eat to live, and that I need a bathroom to stay sanitary, but these aren't spiritual or 'meaningful' facts - they're the most prosaic and mundane of facts. And yes, sure, if I stopped eating I'd start feeling pretty empty pretty quick, and if the sun had been extinguished prior to my birth I wouldn't ever have existed. So I've got "relationships" with all these things that effect me and effect things that effect me and whatever.

Nothing about that is spiritual and meaningful. And it certainly doesn't devalue my existence by implying I'm empty of self or whatever. And based on that quote it's not intended to - it's more about increasing your value because you're connected with everything, at least through esoteric causal chains. (How that's supposed to matter one way or the other eludes me, but whichever.)


As for the whole "eschew temporary but real earthly happiness for an eternal higher better shinier suger-covered happiness that somebody imagined up" thing, that's a pretty standard line, but you know what? I don't buy fantasies. Anybody can invent a heaven. Lots of people have. And not a damned one of them is a guru because they did so - not until they can prove they're not blowing smoke.

And if they could prove that they would have done it hundreds of years ago.
  #160  
Old 02-07-2019, 07:14 PM
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Well their "evidence" seems to be anecdotal. Like how it worked for the Buddha, some monks/teachers and practitioners. Of course there are other accounts about people who suffered from it.
  #161  
Old 02-07-2019, 07:30 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Well their "evidence" seems to be anecdotal. Like how it worked for the Buddha, some monks/teachers and practitioners. Of course there are other accounts about people who suffered from it.
I'll concede I'm not well read about religions I don't care about that make claims I don't believe, but are you actually saying that they claim they can prove that the Buddha, some monks/teachers and practitioners managed to achieve a form of happiness that is not only superior to my fondness for Twinkies but is also eternal? Because that's a proof I'd like to see.

Of course if you've just meant that they claim (without proof) that these people accomplished this fantastic end, and merely point to them as evidence without proving that they've accomplished what they claimed, then that's not quite as impressive.
  #162  
Old 02-07-2019, 09:46 PM
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I'll concede I'm not well read about religions I don't care about that make claims I don't believe, but are you actually saying that they claim they can prove that the Buddha, some monks/teachers and practitioners managed to achieve a form of happiness that is not only superior to my fondness for Twinkies but is also eternal? Because that's a proof I'd like to see.

Of course if you've just meant that they claim (without proof) that these people accomplished this fantastic end, and merely point to them as evidence without proving that they've accomplished what they claimed, then that's not quite as impressive.
Well it more like taking their words for it. They say the Buddha did it, and some "teachers" and practitioners say they reached it. They claim to be liberated and not subject to lesser desires and pleasure. Of course this is more just taking their word for it, even their claim is essentially to "have faith" that such a thing exists beyond our normal pleasure. To never know craving again. Those who claim it seem sincere and convincing, but it's still just their word.
  #163  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:47 PM
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Don't take their word for anything. They are liars and bullshitters trying to get your money.
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  #164  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:04 PM
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The Indian view is that the Buddha was enlightened, but his teachings were lost or greatly distorted within a generation or two.
  #165  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:23 PM
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The Indian view is that the Buddha was enlightened, but his teachings were lost or greatly distorted within a generation or two.
I guess what I’m getting at is that I’m ok with how my life is, but they say “no you’re not, it sucks and you have to do this to make it better”. Buddhism ironically depressed rather than helped me and my life was better before it.
  #166  
Old 02-08-2019, 02:58 AM
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Hey, can I just ask, what is your actual relation with these people? Do you know them in real life? Do you have face to face interactions with them? Or is this just some website you've stumbled across? What do they want with you? Do they know you?
  #167  
Old 02-08-2019, 10:01 AM
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Hey, can I just ask, what is your actual relation with these people? Do you know them in real life? Do you have face to face interactions with them? Or is this just some website you've stumbled across? What do they want with you? Do they know you?
I don’t really know them, but it’s more more Buddhism has bothered and haunted me since I read it. Makes it sound like there is only one “correct”answer to life
  #168  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:29 PM
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Like “why pursue temporary pleasure when you can work to achieve permanent happiness.”
  #169  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:44 PM
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Don't knock temporary pleasure man, it's a lot of fun.
  #170  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:18 PM
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Don't knock temporary pleasure man, it's a lot of fun.
I’m just explaining their reasoning. But it similar to the thought experiment that if you could be hooked up to a machine that would give you pleasure all the time would you. Most people would say no.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:53 PM
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But that wouldn't be temporary, would it?
  #172  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:56 PM
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Well it more like taking their words for it. They say the Buddha did it, and some "teachers" and practitioners say they reached it. They claim to be liberated and not subject to lesser desires and pleasure. Of course this is more just taking their word for it, even their claim is essentially to "have faith" that such a thing exists beyond our normal pleasure. To never know craving again. Those who claim it seem sincere and convincing, but it's still just their word.
Then they have nothing - and more than that they have no basis for believing that they do!

There is no communication between the dead and the living. (Because -spoiler alert- there is no afterlife.) People can say any goofy crap they want about what happened to Fred or Joe or Siddhartha after they died, but all of it is -and must- be pulled out of their ass. None of them know anything, because there's no way they could know.

There are no gurus. You have nothing to worry about.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:58 PM
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Like “why pursue temporary pleasure when you can work to achieve permanent happiness.”
Because there is no such thing as permanent happiness - temporary is all we get, and then we die.
  #174  
Old 02-08-2019, 07:08 PM
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My best guess, give how bad I am at philosophy. Is that they regard sensory experience as the false mind, and that how you were before all that is the true you. But somehow I doubt that since humans aren't born blank slates. They also don't say how that is false other than their say so. Lastly I scratch my head at "become" truth.
I am not an expert on any of this, but I would suggest you shortcut the bullshit and go straight to soto zen buddhism. There are other paths to enlightenment, but that one is pretty straightforward.

There is no digging into deeper layers, there's no excavating the past, there's no rummaging through your mind to find the truest version of you. You sit down and focus on the breath. Stop thinking about what you want to be, or what you were. The good and true thing is already there, you just need to quiet down and listen to it. The more you listen the louder it gets.
  #175  
Old 02-09-2019, 12:53 AM
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The Vedic view makes more sense to me. Whether you accept it or not, it's logical and consistent, and in principle verifiable by personal experience.

The basic concept is that the the ultimate reality is consciousness, and the whole universe is a virtual construct within consciousness. Matter only exists virtually within consciousness.

So is the universe real? Both yes and no. It's a virtual construct, so in that sense you can say it's not real, but since consciousness is real, everything based on it is real.

Analogies help to clarify the ideas, though they have their limitations.

Analogy 1. Are the objects and locations in a computer games real? Both yes and no. No - because they only exist in the virtual space of the computer game, so in that sense they are illusionary. Yes - because if you are playing the game, you can't take the attitude that objects don't exist. They exist for all practical purposes within the game, and follow certain 'laws of nature' within the game. You have to treat them as real. You're not going to win the game by doing nothing and saying that it isn't real.

Analogy 2. Consciousness is like the ocean, and individuals are like waves on the ocean. Each wave has its own limited structure, individuality, and scope in time and space, but ultimately all waves are just perturbations of the ocean. The innermost self of all beings is the self of the universe, and because it's all consciousness, individuals have free will.

Analogy 3. Another analogy is that individual consciousness is like white light passing through a glass of coloured water. The light passing through takes on qualities according to the reflecting/refracting medium. The individual consciousness is simply the universal consciousness reflected through the brain and body (which are themselves virtual constructs within consciousness). So any change to the brain results in a change of consciousness, like changing the colour of the water in the glass changes the colour of the reflection. But it is possible to refine the brain and body to reflect the pure white light of universal consciousness, and that is enlightenment.


A selection of quotations from the Yoga Vasistha:
Quote:
The sole reality is the infinite consciousness which is omnipresent, pure, tranquil, omnipotent. ... Because the substratum (the infinite consciousness) is real, all that is based on it acquires reality, though the reality is of the substratum alone.

One cannot say that [the universe] is real or unreal, but one can only say that the substratum alone is real. The world exists in Brahman only as a word, an idea. It is neither real nor unreal.

The infinite consciousness is unmanifest, though omnipresent, even as space, though existing everywhere, is unmanifest. Just as the reflection of an object in crystal can be said to be neither real nor entirely unreal, one cannot say that this universe which is reflected in the infinite consciousness is real nor unreal. Again, just as space is unaffected by the clouds that float in it, this infinite consciousness is unaffected and untouched by the universe that appears in it.

Just as light is not seen except through the reflecting agent, even so the infinite consciousness is revealed through these various bodies. It is essentially nameless and formless, but names and forms are ascribed to its reflections.

Consciousness reflecting in consciousness shines as consciousness and exists as consciousness; yet, to one who is ignorant (though considering oneself as wise and rational) there arises the notion that there has come into being and there exists something other than this consciousness. To the ignorant this consciousness appears as the world-appearance; to the wise the same consciousness appears as the one Self.

This consciousness is not created, nor does it perish; it is eternal and the world-appearance is superimposed on it, even as waves in relation to the ocean. In that consciousness, when it is reflected within itself, there arises the ‘I am’ notion which gives rise to diversity.

In that infinite consciousness there is an inherent non-recognition of its infinite nature. That appears to manifest as 'I' and 'the world'.

In the mirror of infinite consciousness countless reflections are seen, which constitute the appearance of this world. These are the individual consciousnesses. Individuality is like just a little agitation on the surface of the ocean of Brahman; or just a little movement in the flame of a candle in a windless room. When, in that slight agitation, the infinitude of the infinite consciousness is veiled, limitation of consciousness appears to arise. This too is inherent in that infinite consciousness. And that limitation of consciousness is known as the individual.
  #176  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:42 AM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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The Vedic view makes more sense to me. Whether you accept it or not, it's logical and consistent, and in principle verifiable by personal experience.

The basic concept is that the the ultimate reality is consciousness, and the whole universe is a virtual construct within consciousness. Matter only exists virtually within consciousness.

So is the universe real? Both yes and no. It's a virtual construct, so in that sense you can say it's not real, but since consciousness is real, everything based on it is real.

Analogies help to clarify the ideas, though they have their limitations.

Analogy 1. Are the objects and locations in a computer games real? Both yes and no. No - because they only exist in the virtual space of the computer game, so in that sense they are illusionary. Yes - because if you are playing the game, you can't take the attitude that objects don't exist. They exist for all practical purposes within the game, and follow certain 'laws of nature' within the game. You have to treat them as real. You're not going to win the game by doing nothing and saying that it isn't real.

Analogy 2. Consciousness is like the ocean, and individuals are like waves on the ocean. Each wave has its own limited structure, individuality, and scope in time and space, but ultimately all waves are just perturbations of the ocean. The innermost self of all beings is the self of the universe, and because it's all consciousness, individuals have free will.

Analogy 3. Another analogy is that individual consciousness is like white light passing through a glass of coloured water. The light passing through takes on qualities according to the reflecting/refracting medium. The individual consciousness is simply the universal consciousness reflected through the brain and body (which are themselves virtual constructs within consciousness). So any change to the brain results in a change of consciousness, like changing the colour of the water in the glass changes the colour of the reflection. But it is possible to refine the brain and body to reflect the pure white light of universal consciousness, and that is enlightenment.


A selection of quotations from the Yoga Vasistha:
Can't say I agree with any of that, especially since evidence seems to point to consciousness being a product of the brain. As far as "universal consciousness" that sounds like nonsense to me, but people can believe whatever they want. I don't think there is such a state as enlightenment. Also personal experience isn't a verification of anything. If it were then aliens, bigfoot, and the Illuminati would be real. Experiencing something as so, doesn't necessarily make it so.

But this is getting off topic.

Last edited by Machinaforce; 02-09-2019 at 01:44 AM.
  #177  
Old 02-09-2019, 01:46 AM
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I am not an expert on any of this, but I would suggest you shortcut the bullshit and go straight to soto zen buddhism. There are other paths to enlightenment, but that one is pretty straightforward.

There is no digging into deeper layers, there's no excavating the past, there's no rummaging through your mind to find the truest version of you. You sit down and focus on the breath. Stop thinking about what you want to be, or what you were. The good and true thing is already there, you just need to quiet down and listen to it. The more you listen the louder it gets.
Not really interested in Zen or any religion. Spirituality was kind of forced upon me as a kid and people tend to look at you funny if you don't have any spiritual beliefs of any sort. My former philosophy was that I don't care what people believe in so long as it doesn't bother me.
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Old 02-09-2019, 01:52 AM
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Not to mention that whole "one consciousness" viewpoint is pretty cold and callous. Most Eastern mysticism tends to be. Though it reads more like poetry than anything else.
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:20 AM
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There isn’t anything logical about the Vedic stuff, it’s just a story to interpret personal experience.
  #180  
Old 02-09-2019, 04:32 PM
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Plus the stuff about abandoning things is rooted in Buddhism nonattachment. Since no achievement, item, relationship is permanent and lasting then one shouldn’t pursue them. But that’s misery. Letting go of family, hobbies, a career I love. Why would they preach such things? Don’t pursue anything because it won’t last anyway?
You haven't heard of right action, right livelihood, right effort? Those and more are core principles of Buddhism that address living in the world and doing the stuff that people do in life. Normal life isn't rejected at all.

I'm not Buddhist, but of all religions it impresses me as having the most rational and experientially-based methodology. It encourages people not to take anything on faith, but to verify things for themselves empirically. I respect that. So much of the disdain for Buddhism I see around here comes from flat-out ignorance of what Buddhism actually is.

Buddhism is not at all problem-free for me, because of the misogyny of saying that women cannot attain enlightenment. What a crap-ass idea to build into a religion (I wonder how Pema Chödrön deals with it). All I'm saying is give credit where credit is due, and criticize it out of knowledge instead of ignorance.
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Old 02-09-2019, 08:41 PM
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You haven't heard of right action, right livelihood, right effort? Those and more are core principles of Buddhism that address living in the world and doing the stuff that people do in life. Normal life isn't rejected at all.

I'm not Buddhist, but of all religions it impresses me as having the most rational and experientially-based methodology. It encourages people not to take anything on faith, but to verify things for themselves empirically. I respect that. So much of the disdain for Buddhism I see around here comes from flat-out ignorance of what Buddhism actually is.

Buddhism is not at all problem-free for me, because of the misogyny of saying that women cannot attain enlightenment. What a crap-ass idea to build into a religion (I wonder how Pema Chödrön deals with it). All I'm saying is give credit where credit is due, and criticize it out of knowledge instead of ignorance.
I’m actually criticizing it from knowledge not from ignorance. People don’t understand the level of commitment it asks. The right action, livelihood, and effort usually means their variation of it. It means to strive for detachment and eventually move from “worldly” life. Those who settle for the three you listed aren’t “real Buddhists” from what some practitioners say. I believe there is a saying that goes “if you have a walking stick I will give you one, if you need one I’ll take it away.” It just seems like the teachings were meant for monks and nuns, not really the lay folk.

I also take root with some of their logic but that’s another story. I still think they created reincarnation to prevent suicide since it’s a much faster method to stop suffering. As far as encouraging people to not take things on faith, you are pretty much having faith that enlightenment is a thing and that it exists. Also since it’s based on personal experience it’s claims about reality are dubious at best. We know their experiences are just the result of rewiring the brain through meditation (these experiences can be replicated in a lab setting also, I doubt the monks could have fathomed the cause of their experience).

I give it some credit in that it’s not as violent, but there are some cases that dispute that, as other religions. But they seem to fall into the same rhythm as others by knocking on “worldly life” and then offering a solution, even if you are ok with life they say you aren’t. At the end of the days it’s just another religion. Personal experience isn’t really empirical evidence since the results vary on the person, you just don’t hear much on the negative cases. Failures tend to place blame on the person rather than the method, like any religion.

But this is kind of off topic.
  #182  
Old 02-09-2019, 08:42 PM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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I think we can close those thread, it has run it’s course. Someone please shut it down I would appreciate it
  #183  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:06 AM
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GreenWyvern GreenWyvern is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post

...it’s just a story to interpret personal experience.
Machinaforce, you are the last person who should be saying this.

You have told yourself a story about the nature of reality, based on your own particular personal experience. This is what all these discussions are about.

Everyone has told you that you are wrong. Everyone - across a very wide spectrum of different beliefs and philosophies, religions, spiritual practices, and versions of atheism and agnosticism - everyone, whatever their different beliefs, thinks you are wrong. I don't think I've ever seen anyone agree with you in all these many discussions over a long period of time.

Yet, on the basis of one particular personal experience, you continue to believe that your story is correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinaforce View Post
I think we can close those thread, it has run it’s course. Someone please shut it down I would appreciate it
Why should the thread be closed? You started this thread, but it is not necessarily all about you. Discussions can continue regardless of the original poster.

This happens every day on this board. Someone asks a question or makes a comment, but the thread is not closed if the OP loses interest.

You have no obligation to continue to read or respond to this thread.
  #184  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:46 AM
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Larry Borgia Larry Borgia is online now
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Please seek help, Machinaforce. GreenWyvern and Johanna you are making a category mistake.
  #185  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:56 AM
Machinaforce Machinaforce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWyvern View Post
Machinaforce, you are the last person who should be saying this.

You have told yourself a story about the nature of reality, based on your own particular personal experience. This is what all these discussions are about.

Everyone has told you that you are wrong. Everyone - across a very wide spectrum of different beliefs and philosophies, religions, spiritual practices, and versions of atheism and agnosticism - everyone, whatever their different beliefs, thinks you are wrong. I don't think I've ever seen anyone agree with you in all these many discussions over a long period of time.

Yet, on the basis of one particular personal experience, you continue to believe that your story is correct.




Why should the thread be closed? You started this thread, but it is not necessarily all about you. Discussions can continue regardless of the original poster.

This happens every day on this board. Someone asks a question or makes a comment, but the thread is not closed if the OP loses interest.

You have no obligation to continue to read or respond to this thread.
Technically you haven’t. You went off topic with the Vedic stuff (which based on your description of it really just sounds like a story)which had nothing to do with my OP or my struggling with it. I’m wondering if you even read the stuff being said. The “story” you speak of isn’t my personal experience but that of others and the claims of many others across different philosophies. I’m not weaving this stuff, they are. You might want to revisit the threads I made and look again.

Last edited by Machinaforce; 02-10-2019 at 09:57 AM.
  #186  
Old 02-11-2019, 08:06 PM
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GreenWyvern and Johanna you are making a category mistake.
What does that mean?
Reply

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