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  #51  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:09 PM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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Got it-You see no problem here because it doesn't conflict with your own beliefs, whereas I would see it as a problem even if the harassment was towards those I disagreed with politically.
I'm not a Trump supporter. Didn't vote for him. Haven't liked him since I first heard of him in the 80s.

Who, exactly, is being harrassed? You haven't answered that yet. Is it you?

Maybe you could get your job description changed to include brooming any and all dirt scribbles off the backs of the trucks. Offer to take a pay cut, if necessary.
  #52  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:10 PM
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It looks like a tough situation, and I feel for you. However, it seems like the real issue is that the company's owners are happy to spread this message. Unless you feel secure and comfortable enough to go toe-to-toe with them, I can't think of any way of approaching this that leaves you on top in the end.

I'm more worried that your expression of your objection to these views in this environment would put you in jeopardy of some kind, whether financial or otherwise.

It sucks to work for assholes.
I am not stupid enough to make any objections-I can't afford to lose this job. I was just wondering if people would agree with me that this was indeed a hostile work environment, my ability to change it notwithstanding.
  #53  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:13 PM
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Got it-You see no problem here because it doesn't conflict with your own beliefs, whereas I would see it as a problem even if the harassment was towards those I disagreed with politically.
Serious question for you: Do you feel "harassed" if your neighbor puts up a political yard sign? What about if a co-worker wears a MAGA hat?

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 02-07-2019 at 01:17 PM.
  #54  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:14 PM
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Wait a minute. Is it owners putting these on or employees??
I assume truck drivers are doing this, while management ignores it.
  #55  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:20 PM
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I am not stupid enough to make any objections-I can't afford to lose this job. I was just wondering if people would agree with me that this was indeed a hostile work environment, my ability to change it notwithstanding.
Hostile Work Environment is a term of art that has a defined meaning. So, technically, no. Maybe Oregon includes political viewpoints. I don't know.



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A hostile work environment is a workplace in which unwelcome comments or conduct based on gender, race, nationality, religion, disability, sexual orientation, age, or other legally protected characteristics unreasonably interfere with an employee's work performance or create an intimidating or offensive work environment for the employee who is being harassed
  #56  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:21 PM
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What about if a co-worker wears a MAGA hat?
I think we can all agree that would be unacceptable.
  #57  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:21 PM
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Serious question for you: Do you feel "harassed" if your neighbor puts up a political yard sign? What about if a co-workers wears a MAGA hat?
I am talking about a constant visual harassment seen over 200 times a day, coupled with constant political comments from the drivers that I cannot respond to.
No, I would not feel harassed if a neighbor put up a political sign or if a co-worker wore a MAGA hat-are you seriously trying to compare what I have described in this thread with those two innocuous and trivial examples?
  #58  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:24 PM
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So, let's say you got a solid wall of "Hells Yeah!" In response. Then what?
  #59  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:25 PM
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There's likely nothing actionable there, since Oregon does not appear to list political affiliation as a protected status. Even if it was actionable, it's not specifically directed at you.

This is a "suck it up buttercup" situation.

I'm not sure I'd say it's hostile, if it isn't directed at you, but it does suggest that you work with a fair number of disagreeable people.
  #60  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Why would you think that? I do not discuss politics at work at all.
Perhaps your inquiries weren't as discreet as you think.
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Do you actually think this whole campaign of putting those two phrases on the backs of the trailers for a period of months now was done to yank the chain of one employee?
It's possible that, given that you are as concerned about things written in the dirt on a truck as you seem to be, that your political opinions are more a matter of public knowledge than you think. So maybe somebody is yanking your chain. Or not - it's hard to say.

Regards,
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  #61  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I am talking about a constant visual harassment seen over 200 times a day, coupled with constant political comments from the drivers that I cannot respond to.
No, I would not feel harassed if a neighbor put up a political sign or if a co-worker wore a MAGA hat-are you seriously trying to compare what I have described in this thread with those two innocuous and trivial examples?
Not to mention that while you do represent the company, the company (to a certain extent) represents you.

I would not want a neighbor to know that I work for that I work for a company that spreads such vile messages.
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  #62  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:30 PM
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So, let's say you got a solid wall of "Hells Yeah!" In response. Then what?
I am just asking if anyone else thinks this company's actions may be over the top. Sometimes something is wrong but there really isn't anything to be done about it, but that doesn't mean it should never be discussed in the first place.
  #63  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:30 PM
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I am talking about a constant visual harassment seen over 200 times a day, coupled with constant political comments from the drivers that I cannot respond to.
No, I would not feel harassed if a neighbor put up a political sign or if a co-worker wore a MAGA hat-are you seriously trying to compare what I have described in this thread with those two innocuous and trivial examples?
I'm not trying to equate them, but I'm trying to figure out what you consider harassment. You called seeing the slogans drawn in the dirt "constant visual harassment", which someone might use to describe the yard sign or MAGA-hat-wearing-coworker, but you called those things "innocuous and trivial" while the post immediately above yours calls wearing a MAGA hat "unacceptable".
  #64  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:31 PM
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Perhaps your inquiries weren't as discreet as you think.
It's possible that, given that you are as concerned about things written in the dirt on a truck as you seem to be,

Regards,
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Now, if they were written on a subway wall...
  #65  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:33 PM
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I am just asking if anyone else thinks this company's actions may be over the top. Sometimes something is wrong but there really isn't anything to be done about it, but that doesn't mean it should never be discussed in the first place.
Wrong can have lots of meanings. Legally? No, it does not appear so. Morally? Not really seeing that either. Financially? It might be bad business for a company in Oregon to allow / tacitly endorse a publicly right-leaning political perspective, but I suspect the actual harm the company suffers from it will likely be minimal (who knows though, maybe a lefty mob from Portland will smash the windows or torch the place). Is it not very nice? No, it's not particularly nice, but it's about on-par with mean things that routinely get said about Republicans right here on the SDMB.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 02-07-2019 at 01:35 PM.
  #66  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:34 PM
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I think that it's unprofessional, and inappropriate for a business environment. Since it sounds like management has turned a blind eye to it, that's encouraged the employees to keep doing that stuff.

Are you being overly sensitive to it? Maybe. I imagine that the conservative posters on this thread wouldn't be happy working in an environment where their co-workers were putting up "Impeach the Orange Pussy-Grabber" signs, either.

As Procrustus notes, unless your state has some specific laws about political speech in the workplace, it's probably not something that's legally actionable, as political orientation isn't a protected class. And, as you note, since all of this seems to be being tacitly encouraged by management, stirring the pot isn't likely to end well for you.

IMO, it's low-level trolling. Annoying, for sure, and maybe hard to tune out, but I'm not seeing a good way to discourage it that's not likely to lead to more overt harassment.
  #67  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:35 PM
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Perhaps your inquiries weren't as discreet as you think.
It's possible that, given that you are as concerned about things written in the dirt on a truck as you seem to be, that your political opinions are more a matter of public knowledge than you think. So maybe somebody is yanking your chain. Or not - it's hard to say.

Regards,
Shodan
They are doing all this to yank my chain because I asked someone, months after it started, why it is happening? Wouldn't it just be easier if you just said that you don't see a problem with what is being written because you agree with it and/or you like it because it it gets the right people upset?
  #68  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:37 PM
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Wait a minute. Is it owners putting these on or employees??
Most likely not.
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Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
I assume truck drivers are doing this, while management ignores it.
An assumption based on??? Apparently, you haven't worked in the trucking industry. Generally, drivers spend very little time at the back of the trailer except to unlock and open the doors. Dock workers, random people in parking lots, employees of companies where the trailers sit all are more likely to be inclined to write in the dirt on a semi-trailer door. All that can be reasonably inferred from this story is that the owners/management of the company where Czarcasm works deem the messages not worth the expense of washing trailers more often than normal. Methinks we're getting a bit of confirmation bias here, as well. If an inventory were to be done of all writing on all trailers on the lot at any given time, I suspect one would find many more messages/drawings that management has decided were not worth the expense to wash off.
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak View Post
There's likely nothing actionable there, since Oregon does not appear to list political affiliation as a protected status. Even if it was actionable, it's not specifically directed at you.

This is a "suck it up buttercup" situation.
Yup.
  #69  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:38 PM
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It's clear to me that the company isn't interested in preventing the spread of hateful messages about Democrats and (potential) immigrants. Were I a Democrat or an immigrant in that situation, I would feel threatened and marginalized.

So, yes, I would feel I were in a hostile environment, in a non-legal sense. I would feel intimidated into keeping my thoughts and beliefs to myself, and I would suspect that people known to be Democrats and immigrants would face disparate treatment from co-workers and management.

I wouldn't be happy having to deal with that all day every day, and no doubt it wears on your health, mental and otherwise.

But I can't say that I know whether it is a "hostile workplace environment" in an employment law sense.
  #70  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:39 PM
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I am just asking if anyone else thinks this company's actions may be over the top. Sometimes something is wrong but there really isn't anything to be done about it, but that doesn't mean it should never be discussed in the first place.
Yes, it's over the top. No, there's nothing you can do about it other than (a) quitting, or (b) speaking out in one form or another.

I work for an insurance agency and, surprisingly, it's a pretty lefty place - we even get Christmas cards from Mother Jones magazine, we have anti-Individual-1 reading material in the waiting room, etc. (What we don't have are messages which demean and alienate over 1/2 of the population, which is why I call your situation "over the top".)

And if any of our clients or employees don't like it, they are perfectly free to shut up or go elsewhere. And that is the situation you're in.

Last edited by JohnT; 02-07-2019 at 01:40 PM.
  #71  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:39 PM
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No, it's not particularly nice, but it's about on-par with mean things that routinely get said about Republicans right here on the SDMB.
Let me know when your income depends on whether you post on the SDMB.
  #72  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:40 PM
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They are doing all this to yank my chain because I asked someone, months after it started, why it is happening? Wouldn't it just be easier if you just said that you don't see a problem with what is being written because you agree with it and/or you like it because it it gets the right people upset?
They do this over 200 times a day, every day, to yank your chain? This sounds unlikely if you are as discreet as you earler claimed. Or maybe they don't give a shit about you one way or the other and do it for other reasons of their own. Do you believe they obsess over you?
  #73  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:41 PM
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Some Dopers seem to claim that the partisan divide in U.S.A. is nothing new. Were inscriptionss like that really common back in, say, the 1960s or 1970s? Sure LBJ was bad-mouthed but that was for letting thousands of G.I.'s die, and it wasn't an entire party that was disparaged. In OP's example the entire Democratic Party ifs denigrated for ... for what exactly? Proposing a hike to the minimum wage?

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1. Did you forget the other message-"Democrats are Communists", or was it a deliberate downplaying of the situation? ...
It's hard to downplay such a trivial situation further, but I suppose you would see it that way.
If your job required you to drive a truck inscribed "Republicans are Nazis" would that also be a trivial situation?
  #74  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:42 PM
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But I can't say that I know whether it is a "hostile workplace environment" in an employment law sense.
I'm just talking about how people would take it personally, not if it was legal or not.
  #75  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:43 PM
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I'm just talking about how people would take it personally, not if it was legal or not.
So you have my answer.
  #76  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:44 PM
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Let me know when your income depends on whether you post on the SDMB.
I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but you seem resentful of your employer because you apparently lack the marketable skills to find employment elsewhere and / or the financial means to weather the transition. Given those apparent circumstances, I'd suggest you might try having a bit more gratitude towards your employer for providing you the means to support your family that you apparently can't obtain elsewhere.
  #77  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:45 PM
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They do this over 200 times a day, every day, to yank your chain?
No they do not do it to "yank my chain", as I have said over and over again. I do not discuss politics at work.
  #78  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:47 PM
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Some Dopers seem to claim that the partisan divide in U.S.A. is nothing new. Were inscriptionss like that really common back in, say, the 1960s or 1970s? Sure LBJ was bad-mouthed but that was for letting thousands of G.I.'s die, and it wasn't an entire party that was disparaged. In OP's example the entire Democratic Party ifs denigrated for ... for what exactly? Proposing a hike to the minimum wage?
Certainly denigrating broad swaths of political opponents has become more common in recent years. HRC had her "deplorables" comment, and before that Romney had his "47%" comment.


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If your job required you to drive a truck inscribed "Republicans are Nazis" would that also be a trivial situation?
If I were in that situation I'd either ignore it or quit. If Czarcasm can't do that, maybe he can wipe / wash it off the particular trailer he is driving that day. If he can't do it at the pickup point, perhaps down the road a bit, or the first time he stops for fuel.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 02-07-2019 at 01:48 PM.
  #79  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:49 PM
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No they do not do it to "yank my chain", as I have said over and over again. I do not discuss politics at work.
20 minute ago, in post #67, you said that they *are* doing it to yank your chain:

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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
They are doing all this to yank my chain because I asked someone, months after it started, why it is happening? Wouldn't it just be easier if you just said that you don't see a problem with what is being written because you agree with it and/or you like it because it it gets the right people upset?
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Old 02-07-2019, 01:50 PM
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No they do not do it to "yank my chain", as I have said over and over again. I do not discuss politics at work.
Then who, if not you, is targeted by the hostility? Maybe you should relocate and retrain for a better job.

Last edited by Scumpup; 02-07-2019 at 01:51 PM.
  #81  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:50 PM
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I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but you seem resentful of your employer because you apparently lack the marketable skills to find employment elsewhere and / or the financial means to weather the transition. Given those apparent circumstances, I'd suggest you might try having a bit more gratitude towards your employer for providing you the means to support your family that you apparently can't obtain elsewhere.
I will give your advice all the attention it de...

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Originally Posted by septimus
If your job required you to drive a truck inscribed "Republicans are Nazis" would that also be a trivial situation?
Hell, I would be upset if that message was being spread by the company I work with.
  #82  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:51 PM
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Most likely not.

An assumption based on???
On the assumption the truck drivers spend the most time with the trucks than any other employees. I put all of 1 sec of thought into thinking this because it doesn't really matter which employees are doing it. Management isn't doing anything to stop it.
  #83  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:55 PM
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I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but you seem resentful of your employer because you apparently lack the marketable skills to find employment elsewhere and / or the financial means to weather the transition. Given those apparent circumstances, I'd suggest you might try having a bit more gratitude towards your employer for providing you the means to support your family that you apparently can't obtain elsewhere.
This was completely uncalled for.
  #84  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:55 PM
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20 minute ago, in post #67, you said that they *are* doing it to yank your chain:
I was questioning the "logic" used by the person I was quoting.
  #85  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:57 PM
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Man, I'm a Democrat and I'd be super uncomfortable if the company I worked for allowed something like "Republicans lie" on their public-facing property. Heck I'd be uncomfortable if someone posted it on the corkboard in the break room, even.
There we go! It's unprofessional and reflects poorly on the company, clientele, and employees. That's all that has to be said. As for how OP feels about it on a personal/political level, well, yeah something about buttercups, unfortunately.

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 02-07-2019 at 01:59 PM.
  #86  
Old 02-07-2019, 01:58 PM
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This was completely uncalled for.
Agree and reported it.
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  #87  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:07 PM
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Agree and reported it.
I guess we'll let the mods decide, but he previously posted:

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Are you hiring? I am 62 years old with a family to support, so it's a little late in the game to start at the bottom rung wage-wise. Have you got any practical solutions?
I don't see how that's all that different from just restating what he already told me.
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:14 PM
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They are doing all this to yank my chain because I asked someone, months after it started, why it is happening?
Or because you aren't as good as you think at concealing your politics back when they started putting anti-abortion stickers on the trucks.
Quote:
Wouldn't it just be easier if you just said that you don't see a problem with what is being written because you agree with it and/or you like it because it it gets the right people upset?
I find it easier to post what I think rather than what you think. YMMV.

Regards,
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:14 PM
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I don't feel this is a hostile environment, but one way to combat it would be to go totally over the top with it. Go out to the dirty trucks and cover them in similarly-aligned slogans like "Republican's Rule" "Democrats are the Devil", etc. Eventually management will notice and make an ultimatum that writing in the dirt on the trucks is prohibited.
  #90  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:18 PM
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Or because you aren't as good as you think at concealing your politics back when they started putting anti-abortion stickers on the trucks.
What the fuck are you referring to?
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Old 02-07-2019, 02:21 PM
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I don't feel this is a hostile environment, but one way to combat it would be to go totally over the top with it. Go out to the dirty trucks and cover them in similarly-aligned slogans like "Republican's Rule" "Democrats are the Devil", etc. Eventually management will notice and make an ultimatum that writing in the dirt on the trucks is prohibited.
It sounds like a hostile environment to me - especially if these slogans are being done specifically in response to him, as Shodan seems to be suggesting.

And screwing around like that seems like a good way to get fired, just for screwing around. (Also your suggestion presumes it's possible to say anything too horrible for a Republican to happily accept without treading into some other sort of auto-firing territory, which I'm not sure is a safe assumption.)
  #92  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I don't mean to put too fine a point on it, but you seem resentful of your employer because you apparently lack the marketable skills to find employment elsewhere and / or the financial means to weather the transition. Given those apparent circumstances, I'd suggest you might try having a bit more gratitude towards your employer for providing you the means to support your family that you apparently can't obtain elsewhere.
This is IMHO, so you are free to express your opinion, but this is demeaning enough to be in personal attack or insult territory.

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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I don't see how that's all that different from just restating what he already told me.
All he said was that he is 62 years old and it's a bit late to start at the bottom rung of the ladder. You are the one who turned it into a demeaning comment about a lack of skills. If you don't understand that what you are saying is an insult, then maybe you should restrict your comments to the Pit where insults are allowed anyway.

To everyone else, this entire thread is getting too snippy. Let's all dial it back a bit, please. All of you know the difference between IMHO and the Pit. Post appropriately.
  #93  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:29 PM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
What the fuck are you referring to?
I misread your OP. My apologies - you said you did not work at a trucking company with anti-abortion stickers, but one with Trump slogans written in the dust.

My belief in the possibility that you might not be the soul of discretion at work about your politics remains, however.

Regards,
Shodan
  #94  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:33 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
... If you don't understand that what you are saying is an insult, then maybe you should restrict your comments to the Pit where insults are allowed anyway. ...
I understand the admonishment and will endeavor to adhere to it (by avoiding comments that come across as "demeaning enough to be in personal attack or insult territory"), but wasn't a poster banned for doing exactly this (restricting himself to only the Pit) recently?
  #95  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:38 PM
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Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I misread your OP. My apologies - you said you did not work at a trucking company with anti-abortion stickers, but one with Trump slogans written in the dust.

My belief in the possibility that you might not be the soul of discretion at work about your politics remains, however.

Regards,
Shodan
If this mistaken belief and disregard for all the times I have said that I do not discuss politics at work somehow gives you a reason to feel their actions are justified, then there is nothing I can say to you in this forum.
  #96  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:42 PM
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I will try to put this as simply as possible: I think that the attitude my company has and the political intolerance they openly allow(if not actually encourage) would be be there whether I worked there or not.
  #97  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
If this mistaken belief and disregard for all the times I have said that I do not discuss politics at work somehow gives you a reason to feel their actions are justified, then there is nothing I can say to you in this forum.
I will just say this: even if you steadfastly don't discuss politics at work, it may be possible that your co-workers are reading body language, lack of willingness to engage in political discussion, and lack of hearty agreement with them when they're talking politics, as signs that you aren't "one of them."

Also, in your OP, you noted:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm
I made a very discrete inquiry as to whether there were any complaints, and was told that The Powers That Be see no harm being done, and that there have been no complaints from either other employees or from the public at large.
I obviously cannot know for certain, but it may also be that whoever you talked to did not treat this conversation as discreetly as you did.
  #98  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
I will just say this: even if you steadfastly don't discuss politics at work, it may be possible that your co-workers are reading body language, lack of willingness to engage in political discussion, and lack of hearty agreement with them when they're talking politics, as signs that you aren't "one of them."

Also, in your OP, you noted:



I obviously cannot know for certain, but it may also be that whoever you talked to did not treat this conversation as discreetly as you did.
Once again, you are confusing possible cause and real effect. The dirty graffiti was going on for months before I asked about it, therefore I CAN'T be the reason they are doing it, can I? As much as people would like to excuse what they are doing by somehow transferring the blame to me, it just could not have happened that way.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 02-07-2019 at 02:55 PM.
  #99  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:58 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Once again, you are confusing possible cause and real effect. The dirty graffiti was going on for months before I asked about it, therefore I CAN'T be the reason they are doing it, can I? As much as people would like to excuse what they are doing by somehow transferring the blame to me, it just could not have happened that way.
And if it was happening in response to your political beliefs that they'd found out one way or the other, it would definitely be a hostile work environment.
  #100  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:59 PM
you with the face you with the face is online now
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If your co-workers were doing this to yank your chain, to me that would actually make their behavior more indefensible not less.

I doubt they were doing that, though.

Last edited by you with the face; 02-07-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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