Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 02-07-2019, 02:59 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 13,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Once again, you are confusing possible cause and real effect. The dirty graffiti was going on for months before I asked about it, therefore I CAN'T be the reason they are doing it, can I? As much as people would like to excuse what they are doing by somehow transferring the blame to me, it just could not have happened that way.
I agree that's it's pretty unlikely that you are *the* reason (and I was not trying to imply otherwise). However, if your co-workers have decided, somehow, that you aren't on board with the graffiti (and the other stuff), it may be possible that they're making a point of it in your presence, to troll you.

Regardless, I've said my piece on the topic, and the level of angst that this thread seems to be creating does suggest to me that the possibility that you're overreacting is strong (even if I find your management's tacit approval of the graffiti to be stupid and unprofessional).
  #102  
Old 02-07-2019, 03:02 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
Regardless, I've said my piece on the topic, and the level of angst that this thread seems to be creating does suggest to me that the possibility that you're overreacting is strong (even if I find your management's tacit approval of the graffiti to be stupid and unprofessional).
The fact that he's bothered by something is evidence that he doesn't have reason to be bothered by it?
  #103  
Old 02-07-2019, 03:05 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 13,629
Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
The fact that he's bothered by something is evidence that he doesn't have reason to be bothered by it?
That's not what I said, at all.

What I'm saying is that he's made several posts in this thread which come across, to me, as pretty upset and worked up. The title of this thread mentions "over-sensitivity," and his final line in the OP is, "Am I making too big a deal of this?" I'm thinking that, yes, he may well be overly sensitive about this all.
  #104  
Old 02-07-2019, 03:45 PM
Doctor Jackson's Avatar
Doctor Jackson Doctor Jackson is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Jawja
Posts: 10,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
On the assumption the truck drivers spend the most time with the trucks than any other employees. I put all of 1 sec of thought into thinking this because it doesn't really matter which employees are doing it. Management isn't doing anything to stop it.
Sorry, but 1 second of thought led you down the wrong path. Just as you said, truck drivers spend the vast majority of their time in the truck. They are not, generally, behind the trailer writing crap in the dust. It is likely not the employees where Czarcasm works, either. If he could get busted for wiping it off because it's outside his job description, then anyone there writing on the trailers would presumably be subject to the same - unless you're hypothesizing a job description that includes "Write incendiary messages on the back door of dirty trailers". In all likelihood, the writing is being done by dock workers at the delivery locations before or after the trailer has been loaded/unloaded or by random people while the truck is stopped and the driver asleep/out eating/in a movie/etc.

All we know is the following:
1. Some trailers have political messages written on back
2. Management has decided that removing said messages is not worth the expense of additional trailer washes.

Everything else is unfounded speculation. As I said before, from my experience in the business, all manner of crap gets written on the back of trailers all the time. Unless Czarcasm can show that A) only "anti-left" messages are being written, or B) only "anti-left" messages are not being cleaned off, then there is no case for hostile work environment.

Last edited by Doctor Jackson; 02-07-2019 at 03:46 PM.
  #105  
Old 02-07-2019, 03:46 PM
steronz steronz is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oh-hiya-Maude
Posts: 4,683
It would bother me, but I don't have any useful advice about what I'd do about it. Probably nothing, as it sounds like that's your only real option.


At one of my work locations I have a coworker who listens to AM radio where Herman Cain and Rush constantly badmouth the left. This coworker will regularly making comments, to no one in particular, about how Democrats are ruining the country and how stupid someone has to be to vote Democrat. Why he thinks it's OK to say this stuff in mixed company I have no idea, but it certainly makes the environment toxic. I understand voting for a certain political party is not a protected class, but come on.


As an analogy, imagine if there was a bunch of rhetoric in a workplace about how people who buy foreign cars are ruining the country, how they're stabbing their fellow Americans in the back and how they must hate America. Foreign cars still show up in small numbers in the parking lot but in the break room people still talk about idiots who buy Hyundais and assholes who buy BMWs.

Then one day when "Buy American" stickers start show up around the office, people like HurricaneDitka will undoubtedly come along and say that anyone who complains about an innocuous sticker like that is being too sensitive and probably should just quit if it bothers them. It's not the stickers, it's that it's clearly the a message tied to all the actual hateful words that get spewed in mixed company.

Last edited by steronz; 02-07-2019 at 03:48 PM.
  #106  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:04 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jackson View Post
Sorry, but 1 second of thought led you down the wrong path. Just as you said, truck drivers spend the vast majority of their time in the truck. They are not, generally, behind the trailer writing crap in the dust. It is likely not the employees where Czarcasm works, either. If he could get busted for wiping it off because it's outside his job description, then anyone there writing on the trailers would presumably be subject to the same - unless you're hypothesizing a job description that includes "Write incendiary messages on the back door of dirty trailers". In all likelihood, the writing is being done by dock workers at the delivery locations before or after the trailer has been loaded/unloaded or by random people while the truck is stopped and the driver asleep/out eating/in a movie/etc.

All we know is the following:
1. Some trailers have political messages written on back
2. Management has decided that removing said messages is not worth the expense of additional trailer washes.

Everything else is unfounded speculation. As I said before, from my experience in the business, all manner of crap gets written on the back of trailers all the time. Unless Czarcasm can show that A) only "anti-left" messages are being written, or B) only "anti-left" messages are not being cleaned off, then there is no case for hostile work environment.
If anyone is going to be behind the truck it will be the driver who has to do a walkaround inspection before leaving and after dropping it off in the yard.
1. Not some, but a majority have two specific political messages written on the back.
2. Management doesn't seem to(or want to) recognize this as a problem, so they are not instructing employees to knock it off.
All manner of crap gets written on these trailers all the time? I cannot recall ever seeing anti-right rhetoric graffiti on trailers, let alone to the extent I am seeing these two particular phrases. Now, as to this theory that all of these trailers are being temporarily defaced by "dock workers".
1. These trailers go to many different docks up and down the west coast and several in the midwest, so are you claiming that there is some vast dockworker conspiracy going on here?
2. Why are all these dockworkers doing this to the trailers of one particular company, and not any of the others?
I cannot "show" you that only "anti-left" crap is being written-you either believe that what I said is what is happening, or you don't.
  #107  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:21 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 12,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
If anyone is going to be behind the truck it will be the driver who has to do a walkaround inspection before leaving and after dropping it off in the yard.
1. Not some, but a majority have two specific political messages written on the back.
...
This doesn't make much sense to me. Is it your current operating theory that many of the drivers have conspired together to write the same two slogans on a majority of the trailers?
  #108  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:24 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
This doesn't make much sense to me. Is it your current operating theory that many of the drivers have conspired together to write the same two slogans on a majority of the trailers?
I am just describing what is happening.
  #109  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:41 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,744
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
This doesn't make much sense to me. Is it your current operating theory that many of the drivers have conspired together to write the same two slogans on a majority of the trailers?
I'll be honest - that sounds like the most probable explanation, given what I've heard here. They've got the means and opportunity.

As to their motive, I'm honestly a bit suspicious that they are deliberately trolling, because honestly why else would anybody do this?
  #110  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:56 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 34,741
There’s no big mystery here. They’re signaling their tribal loyalties to each other and as a bonus they’re threatening/intimidating people from the other tribe. And their employer is sympathetic to it.
  #111  
Old 02-07-2019, 04:59 PM
you with the face you with the face is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 12,010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Jackson View Post
Sorry, but 1 second of thought led you down the wrong path.
And 1 second of thought should’ve told you don’t know enough to say this.

As I said before, it actually doesn’t matter who is doing it. What’s with all the ink you’re giving this tangent? For all any us knows or cares, Becky from the McDonalds across the goddamn street is doing it. So the fuck what? The operative issue is management’s apathy towards these messages and what their persistence says about the organization’s culture.

Last edited by you with the face; 02-07-2019 at 05:00 PM.
  #112  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:33 PM
Bruce Wayne Bruce Wayne is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Michigan
Posts: 796
Like the OP I drive a company vehicle while making a living and I drive through many areas that are politically diverse. I wouldn’t want political messages on my work vehicle because you never know who would see them and I don’t want to attract crazy people, I meet too many at work as it is. I totally endorse the idea upthread about wiping messages off with stashed push broom. If management gave me grief about thay, I would talk about professionalism, public image and safety.
  #113  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:41 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
Like the OP I drive a company vehicle while making a living and I drive through many areas that are politically diverse. I wouldnít want political messages on my work vehicle because you never know who would see them and I donít want to attract crazy people, I meet too many at work as it is. I totally endorse the idea upthread about wiping messages off with stashed push broom. If management gave me grief about thay, I would talk about professionalism, public image and safety.
Unlike the previous poster I do not drive a company vehicle-I am head of security at a trucking firm, and I don't have time to waste walking around the yard and sweeping the backs of hundreds of trailers.
  #114  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:50 PM
The King of Soup The King of Soup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,345
Great. If you're head of security, you are responsible for preventing unauthorized access to the trucks. Not sure how that keeps you from walking around the yard, but you know your job and I don't.

If you are head of security, then presumably you have a subordinate or two. And you even have some authority, as long as it involves security, over everyone in the yard.

So, okay. Decide that security involves preventing unapproved graffiti on the trucks. The owners will have to agree with you, or approve the graffiti. Done.
  #115  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:53 PM
Guinastasia's Avatar
Guinastasia Guinastasia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 52,254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Typo Negative View Post
Democrat here, but I say......deal with it and be the better person. Their trucks, their message. Seriously, who gives a shit about bumper stickers? Its not like you're changing hearts and minds with this. I don't think it's smart business on their part, but it is what it is.

As long as no one is berating you personally, it's business as usual. But if they start giving you grief about your own beliefs, then its a hostile environment and time to get a lawyer.
They're not bumperstickers (at least as I understand it) -- someone wrote something in the dirt on his truck.

Last edited by Guinastasia; 02-07-2019 at 05:56 PM.
  #116  
Old 02-07-2019, 05:56 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by The King of Soup View Post
Great. If you're head of security, you are responsible for preventing unauthorized access to the trucks. Not sure how that keeps you from walking around the yard, but you know your job and I don't.

If you are head of security, then presumably you have a subordinate or two. And you even have some authority, as long as it involves security, over everyone in the yard.

So, okay. Decide that security involves preventing unapproved graffiti on the trucks. The owners will have to agree with you, or approve the graffiti. Done.
I think I know my duties better than you do, and if management says it isn't in my job description, and they don't think it is a problem, so your so-called solution is done.
  #117  
Old 02-07-2019, 07:41 PM
enipla enipla is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 13,705
Hey Czarcasm. A trucking company with hundreds of trucks suggests loading docks. I suspect it's just dock workers putting their little message on the back of the truck once it's loaded.

If there are hundreds of trucks, it must be quite a big firm. And I would assume you have quite a few dock workers. They probably come and go, and management is not concerned about it (I would be). Could you get management to agree to have you, as head of security, to post a few messages (bulletin boards whatever) in the loading dock area, that writing messages on the back of trucks is not permitted?

If it is a big installation, I kind of doubt the drivers are doing this. They have other shit to worry about.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #118  
Old 02-07-2019, 07:53 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,744
I'm not seeing how "as head of security" will make the the managers interested in him acting as a HR director.
  #119  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:08 PM
puzzlegal's Avatar
puzzlegal puzzlegal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 3,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
According to them I am the only one to ever bring it up, so what is there to orchestrate?
Huh? Do you have friends who see the trucks and find them offensive? Encourage them to tell the company. That might be a bad idea in terms of your job security if your friends can be traced to you, but it's surely not dishonest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZipperJJ View Post
Man, I'm a Democrat and I'd be super uncomfortable if the company I worked for allowed something like "Republicans lie" on their public-facing property. Heck I'd be uncomfortable if someone posted it on the corkboard in the break room, even.

I guess if you've reported it and no one cares, it is what it is
Yeah, me, too. It would be a violation of my employer's policy to do that, as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Unlike the previous poster I do not drive a company vehicle-I am head of security at a trucking firm, and I don't have time to waste walking around the yard and sweeping the backs of hundreds of trailers.
Oh, I thought you had to drive these trucks.

I wouldn't want to drive a truck with a "sign" like that on it, and I WOULD wipe it off, and tell management that I was concerned both with the company's public image and with my safety if someone complained. But if you're not driving the truck, it seems less problematic.

Would I be unhappy that management allowed that? Yes. I probably wouldn't quit over it, though. And I'm pretty sure it's legal. My guess is they could paint that on their trucks if they wanted to.
  #120  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:18 PM
BwanaBob's Avatar
BwanaBob BwanaBob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,032
This is the kind of shit that makes me go "reactionary". That so many people seem happy to give complete powers of god to a boss. Maybe they secretly harbor desires to be in that position? Well my position (and it needs to be fully legislated) is to not be an asshole to your employees. All that should be required of an employee is to do their job; not support the bosses political party, or root for his son's high school football team, or support his favorite charity, etc.

Unless you, the boss, can do every task needed to run your business you will have to involve other sentient beings with opinions and desires and feelings. You do not get to abuse them. Fuck this "protected class" stuff, it ought to be inverted, an enumeration of what the boss "can" do to an employee , and it should be a very short list. Damn it already, can't those who got a little further ahead in life just behave? Do we need to codify civility?
__________________
Go wherever you can be
And live for the day
It's only wear and tear
-IQ
  #121  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:21 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
To clarify a point in the OP, the company that has painted onto the back of all their trailers(not bumper-stickered) the phrase "IT IS NOT A CHOICE. IT IS A CHILD" is Covenant.
  #122  
Old 02-08-2019, 02:55 PM
ZPG Zealot ZPG Zealot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,958
My condolences on your situation. Unfortunately, I don't think there is much you can do considering how "right-to-work" laws allow employers a lot of room to be insensitive jerks. Whenever you have some extra money, you might consider making a small donation to Planned Parenthood, so you can have the satisfaction of using money earned from Covenant going to support abortion.
  #123  
Old 02-08-2019, 04:02 PM
Melbourne Melbourne is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,555
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPG Zealot View Post
My condolences on your situation. Unfortunately, I don't think there is much you can do considering how "right-to-work" laws allow employers a lot of room to be insensitive jerks. Whenever you have some extra money, you might consider making a small donation to Planned Parenthood, so you can have the satisfaction of using money earned from Covenant going to support abortion.
Since I'm here:

In the first sentence of the first post the OP wrote that he doe not work for that company.
  #124  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:00 PM
Tired and Cranky Tired and Cranky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I work at a mid-sized trucking firm(not the one where the drivers are forced to haul trailers that have "It's a Child, Not a Choice" printed on the back), and I already know better than to talk about my political beliefs here...but for the last few months the vast majority of the trailers we have had two things written in the dirt on the back end: "Democrats Are Communists" and "Build The Wall". It is written in letters large enough to be read easily as you pass them on the road, and there is no way for any employee in the yard not to see it. The trailers get washed occasionally, but as soon as there is enough accumulated dust/dirt the two phrases go right back on. I made a very discrete inquiry as to whether there were any complaints, and was told that The Powers That Be see no harm being done, and that there have been no complaints from either other employees or from the public at large. Am I making too big a deal of this?
This would irk me too and I'm sorry you have to deal with it. I do think if the company's management doesn't care about the message that their dirty trucks are carrying, you should probably just let it go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
If the owners of the company don't care, or endorse the message, you will have to put up with it. Or make a public issue of it and lose, or quit your job in protest.

Or buy your own truck and put whatever you want on it.

Someone is wrong on the Internet the dirt on a truck.

Regards,
Shodan
Boy do I hate agreeing with Shodan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Unlike the previous poster I do not drive a company vehicle-I am head of security at a trucking firm, and I don't have time to waste walking around the yard and sweeping the backs of hundreds of trailers.
You're head of security, and I assume that means protecting all of the company's assets and reducing their risks. Is there a reasonable security-related reason for you to get involved here? Employees writing on the backs of trucks are wasting labor hours, which is a company resource. Should management put a stop to it for that reason? Perhaps it's a trivial loss of time but if there are hundreds of trucks with this message, the time adds up. Especially if the messages keep reappearing after cleanings.

If employees are walking around the truck yard to write on trailers, are they increasing the risk that they get hit by a truck? That's a hit to your employer's comp insurance and should be something your managers worry about.

Does the graffiti indicate that employees have too much unsupervised access to trailers? That could suggest there are are gaps in the monitoring or security of the trailers that could lead to freight losses. Perhaps increased camera coverage in the yard would let you figure out who is doing this. Then, report the person to their manager and HR for shirking. The political content of their message is irrelevant.

Can you enlist allies at the company who might care for different reasons? I'm guessing your head of marketing/sales doesn't want this message to deter customers who aren't part of the MAGA crowd. Does he or she even know about this problem and want to fix it for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Significantly more severe than "Build the wall" scribbled in some dust.

For example, if my company owner decided that we're going to go all-in to support Kamala Harris in 2020, and my job then required me to spend 4 hours each day fulfilling my regular duties and 4 hours each day phone-banking for Harris, I'd quit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
I think we can all agree that would be unacceptable.

HurricaneDitka
, your solution seems fair but management's failure to scrub a partisan message of their trucks is a trivial reason for Czarcasm to quit. It would be a weird hill to die on.

Procrustus, I don't know why you think that would be unacceptable for an employer to require its employees to phone bank for Kamala Harris. It's clear that if HurricaneDitka worked at a phone bank hired by the Committee to Elect Kamala Harris, this would be part and parcel of his job. HurricaneDitka would either suck it up and make the calls or quit, as he suggested. You might think that just because HurricaneDitka doesn't actually work at a phone bank, they can't make him place such phone calls but, generally and in the absence of a specific contract (such as a union contract) that provides otherwise, employees work at their employer's will and the employer can change the job description to include phone banking for Kamala Harris any time they want (disregarding campaign finance law limitations for a moment).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
1. Did you forget the other message-"Democrats are Communists", or was it a deliberate downplaying of the situation?
2. Yeah, it would be wrong for your company to make you work for a political party...and I'm pretty sure it would also be illegal. It's nice to know that your bar is set at "I would leave if my company made me do something that would never happen in real life"
Your employer can make you work for a political party, as in my telemarketer phone bank example. Under federal election laws, there are limits on a company donating services in-kind to a political campaign or party but, as a practical matter, as long as the company isn't coordinating with the candidate or the candidate's party, your company can spend as much money as it wants promoting or opposing a political candidate, and it can assign its employees to do that work. That was the holding of Citizen's United v. the Federal Election Commission. The employee either makes the calls, quits on principal as Shodan and HurricaneDitka suggest, or refuses to make the calls and faces the employers' consequences, which probably means getting fired.
  #125  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:13 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired and Cranky View Post
Your employer can make you work for a political party, as in my telemarketer phone bank example. Under federal election laws, there are limits on a company donating services in-kind to a political campaign or party but, as a practical matter, as long as the company isn't coordinating with the candidate or the candidate's party, your company can spend as much money as it wants promoting or opposing a political candidate, and it can assign its employees to do that work. That was the holding of Citizen's United v. the Federal Election Commission. The employee either makes the calls, quits on principal as Shodan and HurricaneDitka suggest, or refuses to make the calls and faces the employers' consequences, which probably means getting fired.
That is why I preface my legal opinionating with "I'm pretty sure".
  #126  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:32 PM
JB99 JB99 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 870
I’d be more upset by the fact that my co-workers are fucking idiots than the messages themselves.
  #127  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:20 PM
What Exit?'s Avatar
What Exit? What Exit? is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Central NJ (near Bree)
Posts: 28,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Yes.
Can't believe I am going to agree with HD but Yes, you are being too sensitive. It kind of sucks but it isn't close to an actual hostile work environment.

I say this as someone who was one of the 3 of 49 who voted for HRC and not Trump at my prior job.
  #128  
Old 02-08-2019, 07:04 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 34,741
I don't think the OP is being too sensitive. The messages "Democrats are Communists" and "Build the Wall" are threatening, hostile messages, and are clearly intimidating to someone who disagrees with them. The fact that they keep appearing repeatedly signals an intent to aggressively enforce his hostile point of view on the entire workforce. The OP has to be careful not to reveal his disagreement with these political statements, because they clearly suggest that anyone who disagrees with them won't be treated equally, or worse.

This kind of intimidation can be a major impact on a person's mental, and as a result, physical, health.
  #129  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:16 PM
Grestarian Grestarian is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Garage & Lab
Posts: 1,449
[Warning: This is going to be one of Grestarian's colorful posts]

I'm trying to distill the known versus unknown facts from this conversation:

Known:
A) The company with the graffiti on its trucks is Covenant.
B) Czarcasm is not a truck driver. He happens to work on a trailer-storage site for a company that is NOT Covenant.
C) The trucking company has no problem with the display of right-wing propaganda on its name-bearing vehicles.
D) The verbage that Czarcasm finds objectionable has been appearing for months, and it was months before he asked the trucking company's management if the messages might be excessive
D) Czarcasm is not in a position conducive to changing careers



Suggested but unknown:
1) Czarcasm is employed (as on-site manager) by a contractor who provides security for a trucking company's trailer yard(s)?
2) Czarcasm is not (yet) in a position to retire.
3) Czarcasm does not feel he can simply train for another career and find another job
4) Czarcasm does not know exactly who is putting graffiti on the trucks.


Questions:
I) Can Czarcasm ask to be transferred to another site and expect the same remuneration?
II) Has Czarcasm found evidence of anyone at any time putting graffiti on the trucks? [I know this conflicts with #4 above; are there any video captures or witnesses or braggarts or shoe prints or...?]
III) Who else is accessing the site where the trucks are stored? How easy is it to come by and write on a truck?
IV) How many trucks are receiving this graffiti? How long does it take to mark so many trucks?


Comments:
+ It's painful to write this but, given your circumstances, I would agree with the various responders who have said, "Try to Ignore it." because it's not worth losing the job you have. I don't think the trucking company is going over the top even if it's behind the partisan messaging; I do think it's pushing the limit of respectability, but our First Ammendment protects that on both sides of the aisle.

+ I do agree, though, that the company is being foolish to allow the graffiti because, at worst, it makes them look like right-wing extremists and, at best, it tells the world they don't keep their trucks clean, or protected from graffiti artists, or safe from other types of potential vandals, thieves, saboteurs, et cetera.

+ If it was me, I wouldn't be able to ignore it either. You have my sympathies but...well..that and a half-buck will no longer pay for a cheap burger.

+ It may be too late because you have brought up the subject once already. However, you might note to the trucking company's management that the right- or left-wing nature of the message is less relevant than the fact that someone is coming in and spending time writing on the trucks. Whoever he/she/they might happen to be, the message he/she/they might be learning is that one can access the truck storage yard and do all sorts of damage -- visual/graffiti, electro-mechanical, merchandise/product/content-harming -- with impunity.
It then becomes a matter of storage-yard security -- which is your concern as head of security -- to request resources and funding to catch the culprit and make the yard more secure. Be careful, though, because this could also bite your ass by pointing out that it has been going on for months and you haven't caught the culprit. [I.E. what T&C said but from a different angle.]

+ FWIW* Democrats -- even extremist Democrats would be highly UNlikely to be applying graffiti or other vandalism....well, anywhere. I'm not just saying that because I'm a registered Democrat; I'm saying that because one of the well-known and highly exploitable facts about the Left is that they actually believe in the Justice For All ideals and want everyone to feel included and empowered and respected -- to the extent that they lack the balls to stand up to even the tiniest of right-wingers abuses. Honestly, it aggravates the hell out of me! But that's the empathetic stance that would also keep them from writing ELITISTS ARE JERKS even on a half-inch Post-It note.




Good luck!

Please keep us apprised.

---G!
  #130  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:31 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 34,741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grestarian View Post
I'm trying to distill the known versus unknown facts from this conversation:

Known:
[COLOR="Navy"]A) The company with the graffiti on its trucks is Covenant.
Wrong. Covenant officially paints slogans on their trucks. The OP doesnít work for Covenant.


Quote:
It's painful to write this but, given your circumstances, I would agree with the various responders who have said, "Try to Ignore it." because it's not worth losing the job you have.
The OP didnít really ask for this kind of advice. Heís merely asking if this situation would make you feel like you were on a hostile environment too. Speaking for myself, yes it would.
  #131  
Old 02-08-2019, 09:45 PM
sps49sd sps49sd is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 211
Are these tanker trucks or, um, he other kind (long box with pallets of stuff. Or even hopper/ veggie trucks, I guess)?

If tankers, Ramos Oil Company has a wash bay for their tanker trucks because they did some research that told them:

shiny tanks rise less in temperature than dirty ones
the mass of the dirt does have a measurable effect on fuel economy
clean trucks are a better presentation of your company than a dirty truck

If you wished, you could try this tack with management.

If mgt doesn't care, then you will have to live with it. I understand that retirement could be impacted by going to work somewhere else after a certain age; this is one more factor in either not letting it get to you or not letting anyone think it gets to you.

Because some jerks will pile on and continue if they see they are annoying someone else. Jerkish behavior is not normally illegal, and was the normal enough in the military that a thick skin was important.
  #132  
Old 02-09-2019, 09:29 AM
postpic200 postpic200 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I work at a mid-sized trucking firm(not the one where the drivers are forced to haul trailers that have "It's a Child, Not a Choice" printed on the back), and I already know better than to talk about my political beliefs here...but for the last few months the vast majority of the trailers we have had two things written in the dirt on the back end: "Democrats Are Communists" and "Build The Wall". It is written in letters large enough to be read easily as you pass them on the road, and there is no way for any employee in the yard not to see it. The trailers get washed occasionally, but as soon as there is enough accumulated dust/dirt the two phrases go right back on. I made a very discrete inquiry as to whether there were any complaints, and was told that The Powers That Be see no harm being done, and that there have been no complaints from either other employees or from the public at large. Am I making too big a deal of this?
Most people really don't care. If it bothers you a quick brush off, literally would take care of the problem. I've all kinds of stuff written in dirt on cars, trucks, trailers, etc. some are very creative, like these http://graffsociety.com/News-12/Car-...l#.XF7hrFxKiUk most are pointless.

Most people know that the odds are it wasn't the driver, who probably doesn't own the trailer, who only job was take this load from point A to point B. I've also seen where the trailer owner rent out space on trailers as billboards, which might have messages that driver doesn't agree with, but again it's not the driver's job to agree just to take the load from here to there.

So in MHO you're beign over-sensitive. Brush it off if you don't like it and get on with your life. You have better things to worry about.
  #133  
Old 02-09-2019, 10:07 AM
Gatopescado's Avatar
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 21,225
Comedy Gold, this thread!
  #134  
Old 02-10-2019, 01:36 AM
PoppaSan's Avatar
PoppaSan PoppaSan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West shore Lake Michigan
Posts: 2,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by postpic200 View Post
Most people really don't care. If it bothers you a quick brush off, literally would take care of the problem. I've all kinds of stuff written in dirt on cars, trucks, trailers, etc. some are very creative, like these http://graffsociety.com/News-12/Car-...l#.XF7hrFxKiUk most are pointless.

Most people know that the odds are it wasn't the driver, who probably doesn't own the trailer, who only job was take this load from point A to point B. I've also seen where the trailer owner rent out space on trailers as billboards, which might have messages that driver doesn't agree with, but again it's not the driver's job to agree just to take the load from here to there.

So in MHO you're beign over-sensitive. Brush it off if you don't like it and get on with your life. You have better things to worry about.
Of all the posts iin this thread, this is the one closest to my thoughts.
When I see messages written on the vehicle in the dust, I do not associate it with the owner / driver but to an opportunistic tagger. Similar to all the impressive paint jobs on the sides of the boxcars I see while waiting for the train to get through. I doubt Union Pacific or Canadian National agree the urban disciples rule or care that Josiah luvs Kendra. I imply no more or less malice or threat to "lock her up" in dust than I do to "trump" spray painted under STOP on the red octagonal sign on my way to work.
So yes the OP is oversensitive as he knows it is not directed at him personally or at least wasn't when it started. Probably was done by someone that only knows of him by name on a company phone directory.
__________________
This place is beginning to feel like a tin foil hat convention.
  #135  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:50 AM
chappachula chappachula is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
Comedy Gold, this thread!
yep!
This thread seems like something the snowflakes on a college campus would get all worked up about.

Slogans scratched in mud....oh, what a threat!!

And of the two slogans, one is perfectly legitimate, and the other is just plain so stupid that you can't take it seriously.
(to clarify: 1)"Build that wall" is a perfectly legitimate political slogan. I hate it , too, just like you. But it was the slogan used throughout the democratic process of the election, and 60 million voters approved it. 2) "Dems are communists" is just plain stupid. It's not worth getting your panties in a twist over.)

The world is full of stupid people. Some of them are your bosses. Deal with it.

What actually worries me more than the muddy slogans is the overly smug attitude expressed by the OP: seeing things he disagrees with hurts his feelings too much, and he wants protection.

You're at work; not in a safe space with trigger warnings.
  #136  
Old 02-10-2019, 04:51 AM
Iggy Iggy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: somewhere else
Posts: 5,277
As head of security you might have an alternate path. Is your company a part of CTPAT, or does it want to be? CTPAT regulations require a Highway Carrier to store trailers in a secure area to prevent unauthorized access or manipulation. Management might care about longer and more frequent inspections.

Nonetheless, I think the OP is being too sensitive if he wants to change the graffiti because he deems it offensive. But he is being a good head of security if he is looking to protect the business' future participation in CTPAT. Just looking out for the terrorists, boss, should be a message right leaning management could agree with?
  #137  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:49 AM
Bayaker Bayaker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: A town on Galveston Bay
Posts: 2,498
I think the OP should just shrug it off, and can't imagine myself ever being upset by political graffiti. I also find it hard to believe that multiple truck drivers are all writing the same messages. If it is the drivers, the employer may just not want to tick them off. There is a real shortage of CDL drivers, and it can be very difficult to keep good, reliable ones.

Does the company have mule drivers? There would typically be only one or two in even a large operation. The truck mule would be moving the trailers all the time, so would have access to them more than the drivers themselves, often in more out-of-the-way areas of the yard. It could be just the one guy doing it. I would look for a mule driver with a MAGA hat
  #138  
Old 02-10-2019, 11:10 AM
Irishman Irishman is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Denton, TX, USA
Posts: 12,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
It sucks to work for assholes.
Gotta second this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I am not stupid enough to make any objections-I can't afford to lose this job. I was just wondering if people would agree with me that this was indeed a hostile work environment, my ability to change it notwithstanding.
Interestingly, if you did voice your opinions and the company took action against you, you might have a case for legal action. However, other employees giving you shit for your opinions might not rise to the legal requirements for hostile work environment. It is, however, unprofessional and shitty. With diversity in the workplace and all that, HR should do something about it. However, sounds like your company owners are in agreement with the sentiments, so they probably wouldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I am talking about a constant visual harassment seen over 200 times a day, coupled with constant political comments from the drivers that I cannot respond to.
Why can't you respond? Because there's a company policy of no politics? And the drivers aren't subject to it because they are independent contractors, not company employees? Or is it you just feel uncomfortable with the idea of setting yourself off from everyone else for your politics?


Quote:
Originally Posted by filmore View Post
I don't feel this is a hostile environment, but one way to combat it would be to go totally over the top with it. Go out to the dirty trucks and cover them in similarly-aligned slogans like "Republican's Rule" "Democrats are the Devil", etc. Eventually management will notice and make an ultimatum that writing in the dirt on the trucks is prohibited.
I agree that I can't imagine slogans that would be harsh enough to draw criticism that wouldn't be actionable for the expressed opinion itself. Certainly the two you suggest don't seem any harsher than "Democrats are Commies", which seems to be acceptable. Plus, he couldn't do it on company time, as that would be actionable as wasting time or shirking duty, so really he doesn't have the option.
  #139  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:45 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
The trailers are company-owned, and they are not tankers.
The yard is secure, and the only people who have access to them are the mechanics, the drivers and whatever office personnel want to wander out into the yard. Of those three, the drivers have the most access so, no, the drivers are not the least likely suspects.

And, once again, I do not work for Covenant and if I thought that so many people would seize on that I never would have brought them up in the OP, even though it was clearly stated in the OP, and repeated more times then one would deem necessary, that I do not work for that company.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 02-10-2019 at 02:45 PM.
  #140  
Old 02-10-2019, 02:49 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
Why can't you respond? Because there's a company policy of no politics? And the drivers aren't subject to it because they are independent contractors, not company employees? Or is it you just feel uncomfortable with the idea of setting yourself off from everyone else for your politics?
No, the vast majority of the drivers are company drivers, apparently what is meant by the "No Politics" is that the admins want things to go smoothly so the drivers don't go looking for greener pastures, so don't say anything that might rile them up.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 02-10-2019 at 02:50 PM.
  #141  
Old 02-10-2019, 03:19 PM
Aquadementia's Avatar
Aquadementia Aquadementia is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,866
I've seen "Wash Me" written on cars a few times and rarely is the driver someone I'd have fun washing up.
  #142  
Old 02-10-2019, 04:09 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 81,058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Contact some friends who don't work there and are not associated with you as far as your employers know. Have them send in come complaints about obnoxious political slogans on dirty trucks.

ETA: I'd be happy to send in a complaint myself. Just PM me who to send it to.
Seconded!
  #143  
Old 02-10-2019, 04:34 PM
half-elf half-elf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
No, the vast majority of the drivers are company drivers, apparently what is meant by the "No Politics" is that the admins want things to go smoothly so the drivers don't go looking for greener pastures, so don't say anything that might rile them up.
The only thing I can offer to your conundrum is that the Head of Security at my place of work would absolutely make something like that his business, so maybe you could get all official about it, too.
  #144  
Old 02-10-2019, 04:50 PM
enipla enipla is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 13,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
The trailers are company-owned, and they are not tankers.
The yard is secure, and the only people who have access to them are the mechanics, the drivers and whatever office personnel want to wander out into the yard. Of those three, the drivers have the most access so, no, the drivers are not the least likely suspects...[/I]
Huh. So no loading docks where those folks could scrawl a message.

As others have said, I wouldn't make a big deal about it, as it seems to be a good job for you. It would, really, really piss me off though.

I work for County Gov. I have some pull as I've been there for 26 years. If I saw one of our trucks or busses with such political slogans (of any stripe) I would make a very large stink until it was addressed.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #145  
Old 02-10-2019, 06:00 PM
Ace309 Ace309 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Long Island
Posts: 2,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZPG Zealot View Post
My condolences on your situation. Unfortunately, I don't think there is much you can do considering how "right-to-work" laws allow employers a lot of room to be insensitive jerks. Whenever you have some extra money, you might consider making a small donation to Planned Parenthood, so you can have the satisfaction of using money earned from Covenant going to support abortion.
What do right to work laws have to do with this thread?
  #146  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:12 AM
ExTank's Avatar
ExTank ExTank is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Creve Coeur, MO
Posts: 6,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Are you hiring? I am 62 years old with a family to support, so it's a little late in the game to start at the bottom rung wage-wise. Have you got any practical solutions?
If you're 62 and changing jobs will cause you "...to start at the bottom rung wage-wise...," then you have much bigger problems than political graffiti scribbled on the back of over-the-road trailers and complicit (or at best indifferent) management.

Since, by your own admission, you're 62, and pretty much dead-ended wage-wise, and with family financial obligations, I strongly suggest you heed the phrase, "Survival Cancels Programming," give up on politics, and focus on keeping a roof over your family's head, and food on the table.

Or, you can be all principled, Take A Stand for what you believe in, leave/get fired from that job, and then live with the possible consequences of you and your family living out of your car, or out of a homeless shelter, if you can't regain steady employment quickly enough.
  #147  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:58 AM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 59,337
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExTank View Post
If you're 62 and changing jobs will cause you "...to start at the bottom rung wage-wise...," then you have much bigger problems than political graffiti scribbled on the back of over-the-road trailers and complicit (or at best indifferent) management.

Since, by your own admission, you're 62, and pretty much dead-ended wage-wise, and with family financial obligations, I strongly suggest you heed the phrase, "Survival Cancels Programming," give up on politics, and focus on keeping a roof over your family's head, and food on the table.

Or, you can be all principled, Take A Stand for what you believe in, leave/get fired from that job, and then live with the possible consequences of you and your family living out of your car, or out of a homeless shelter, if you can't regain steady employment quickly enough.
I'm glad somebody is getting a little joy out of my predicament.
  #148  
Old 02-11-2019, 09:43 AM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 13,939
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
I'm glad somebody is getting a little joy out of my predicament.
You don't have a "predicament."
  #149  
Old 02-11-2019, 09:46 AM
enipla enipla is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 13,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by chappachula View Post
yep!
This thread seems like something the snowflakes on a college campus would get all worked up about.

Slogans scratched in mud....oh, what a threat!!

And of the two slogans, one is perfectly legitimate, and the other is just plain so stupid that you can't take it seriously.
(to clarify: 1)"Build that wall" is a perfectly legitimate political slogan. I hate it , too, just like you. But it was the slogan used throughout the democratic process of the election, and 60 million voters approved it. 2) "Dems are communists" is just plain stupid. It's not worth getting your panties in a twist over.)

The world is full of stupid people. Some of them are your bosses. Deal with it.

What actually worries me more than the muddy slogans is the overly smug attitude expressed by the OP: seeing things he disagrees with hurts his feelings too much, and he wants protection.

You're at work; not in a safe space with trigger warnings.
So racist and misogynistic slogans scrawled by employees on company property is ok with you. Got it.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #150  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:44 AM
Doctor Jackson's Avatar
Doctor Jackson Doctor Jackson is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Jawja
Posts: 10,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by you with the face View Post
And 1 second of thought shouldíve told you donít know enough to say this.

As I said before, it actually doesnít matter who is doing it. Whatís with all the ink youíre giving this tangent? For all any us knows or cares, Becky from the McDonalds across the goddamn street is doing it. So the fuck what? The operative issue is managementís apathy towards these messages and what their persistence says about the organizationís culture.
My ink? I'm only responding to your guesses, which have no basis in reality. All this says about management is that they are not bothered enough to spend more money to wash the trailers more often than scheduled. How many other messages do they let stand? No one knows, so you cannot have an informed opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
The trailers are company-owned, and they are not tankers.
The yard is secure, and the only people who have access to them are the mechanics, the drivers and whatever office personnel want to wander out into the yard. Of those three, the drivers have the most access so, no, the drivers are not the least likely suspects.[/I]
So these trailers never leave the yard? They never deliver freight to other sites? They never are parked overnight somewhere outside the yard? Seems like a poor business model. And, again, if you could get disciplined for erasing the messages, why wouldn't the drivers get disciplined for writing them? Sorry, I was in the business long enough to understand that drivers generally don't write in the dust on trailers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
If anyone is going to be behind the truck it will be the driver who has to do a walkaround inspection before leaving and after dropping it off in the yard.
1. Not some, but a majority have two specific political messages written on the back.
2. Management doesn't seem to(or want to) recognize this as a problem, so they are not instructing employees to knock it off.
All manner of crap gets written on these trailers all the time? I cannot recall ever seeing anti-right rhetoric graffiti on trailers, let alone to the extent I am seeing these two particular phrases. Now, as to this theory that all of these trailers are being temporarily defaced by "dock workers".
1. These trailers go to many different docks up and down the west coast and several in the midwest, so are you claiming that there is some vast dockworker conspiracy going on here?
2. Why are all these dockworkers doing this to the trailers of one particular company, and not any of the others?
I cannot "show" you that only "anti-left" crap is being written-you either believe that what I said is what is happening, or you don't.
Your answer to 1. doesn't convince me it's not confirmation bias. For your answer to be true you would have to be scanning every trailer for messages. Somehow, I don't think you have time to do that. And yes, trailers get crap written on them all the time. I spent years buying used semi trailers from all manner of companies all over the country. Almost all had something written in the dirt. As for 2., no one has (or can) show it is your drivers doing this and dock workers/others DO write on various companies. You only see the trailers of one.

Sorry, I still vote for "get over it".
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:58 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017