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  #1  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:10 AM
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If Donald Trump is involved in ordering a hit on Yovanavitch, that's certainly impeachable right?


There's some evidence starting to come out that there may have been a conspiracy to organize a hit on Yovanovitch. Assuming that Trump is involved in this at any level certainly, that would be a 100% impeachable* right?

Are there any Trumpists or Trumpist-lite that would like to state a position on this in advance of any additional evidence emerging? Is anybody willing to say unequivocally in advance that they would support his removal from office over this (if true)? Or inversely would like to say, in advance, that they would not support his removal because <reasons> (e.g., the president has every right to order a hit on an American ambassador)?

* I'm using impeach here in the colloquial sense of including subsequent removal.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:23 AM
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"Leave the gun. Take the canolli"? Certainly.


A targetted strike on an enemy commander in a theater of war? No.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:16 AM
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"Leave the gun. Take the canolli"? Certainly.


A targetted strike on an enemy commander in a theater of war? No.
Just to circle back to this; are you saying there might be circumstances in which having an American ambassador killed might be act of war? If so, what would those circumstances be? And what country or group would this act of war be directed against?
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:28 AM
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I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump's order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she's an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means.

I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- it would be deliberate flaunting of the rule of law and in effect saying that it's ok to murder people as long as you're the President.

Also... I can see that resulting in a trial once he's out of office.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:36 AM
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I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump's order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she's an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means.

I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- it would be deliberate flaunting of the rule of law and in effect saying that it's ok to murder people as long as you're the President.

Also... I can see that resulting in a trial once he's out of office.
FLOUTING.

That is all.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:25 AM
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I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- [...]
Have you been paying attention to current politics? Republicans will defend absolutely ANYTHING.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:47 PM
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I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump's order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she's an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means.

I can't see how anyone in the GOP or right-wing could actually defend that- it would be deliberate flaunting of the rule of law and in effect saying that it's ok to murder people as long as you're the President.

Also... I can see that resulting in a trial once he's out of office.
<<Underlining mine>>

I think the key would be the definition of definitive proof. So long as there is some possible (not necessarily plausible) scenario under which Trump could be innocent, then the senate and Trump's supporters will hang onto that fig leaf for dear life. "On the phone call to the hit man Trump never said he wanted Yavonovitch murdered he said he wanted her 'taken out'. Perhaps he was just referring to her being removed from office?"

Even if the evidence is overwhelming as long as any one piece can be discredited, that is what they will concentrate on. "The Democrats claim to have 99 witnesses who say Trump kill Yavonovich in broad daylight, Witness number 72 was so nearsighted that she couldn't have actually seen Trump pull the trigger, and she was a registered Democrat to boot. The whole thing is a phony witch hunt."
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Old 01-24-2020, 04:02 PM
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<<Underlining mine>>

I think the key would be the definition of definitive proof. So long as there is some possible (not necessarily plausible) scenario under which Trump could be innocent, then the senate and Trump's supporters will hang onto that fig leaf for dear life. "On the phone call to the hit man Trump never said he wanted Yavonovitch murdered he said he wanted her 'taken out'. Perhaps he was just referring to her being removed from office?"

Even if the evidence is overwhelming as long as any one piece can be discredited, that is what they will concentrate on. "The Democrats claim to have 99 witnesses who say Trump kill Yavonovich in broad daylight, Witness number 72 was so nearsighted that she couldn't have actually seen Trump pull the trigger, and she was a registered Democrat to boot. The whole thing is a phony witch hunt."
You win!

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/reco...l_twitter_abcn

Yup, the President of the United States... who could have just fired her at any time... was purposely told by Parnas stuff about Yovanavitch which would piss Trump off, to which Trump replied:

Quote:
"Get rid of her!" is what the voice that appears to be Trump’s is heard saying. "Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. OK? Do it."
Do remember the last person Trump wanted "taken out" was killed in a Baghdad airport.

Question: Why would he be telling a bunch of hoodlums to take out the ambassador if he could just fire her?

Last edited by JohnT; 01-24-2020 at 04:03 PM.
  #9  
Old 01-25-2020, 12:47 PM
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I would think that definitive proof of a hit ordered on Yovanovitch at Trump's order or with his assent would fall under the umbrella of attempted murder- she's an American citizen and as such, should have any issues handled through the justice system, not through extrajudicial means.
Senators supporting Trump would say "you don't win a Nobel Prize for attempted chemistry".

They're putting everything on victory in November. If they win, they're home free for the next four years (unless the Democrats somehow get a supermajority in the Senate while losing the Presidency). If they lose, well, there's going to be a massive problem for them.
  #10  
Old 01-25-2020, 10:46 PM
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I was never able to find the recording on ABC, of Parnas and friends.

Here's one in Washington Examiner:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/n...private-dinner

Personal takeaways:

1) One year and some change into his Presidency, and the matter of Ukraine vs. Russia being an eensy weensy bit relevant to much of his campaign and rhetoric, Trump appears to have no knowledge of the situation in Ukraine.
2) For Trump, oil = money opportunity. My assumption is that he immediately forgot everything but that one fact about Ukraine as soon as he left the building, same as every other time in the previous year that people tried to teach him about the place. Which, again, obviously failed, ergo point #1.
3) These guys know exactly what to say, blending truth and fiction, and blatant ass-kissing to take advantage of Trump. They lure him with oil, they goad him with Clinton, and they loft him with tales of Putin fearing him.

This is what the Republican party likes about Trump. He's easy to understand and easy to control.

At least, that's been the case so far.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 01-25-2020 at 10:48 PM.
  #11  
Old 01-26-2020, 04:42 AM
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Nitpick: I like language to be very precise here at SDMB; it increases clarity and avoids confusions. I don't even like acronyms unless they're very well known.

Thus my disappointment that the slang term "hit" is used in this thread almost to the exclusion of more meaningful words like "execution" or "murder." If nothing else, insistence on the slang term is just silly. And "hit" doesn't always mean murder. UIAM in the news business, a "hit job" is not a murder — it's a concentrated effort to slur in print media. "Hit" has other slang meanings as well.

IIRC the allegedly incriminating language from the alleged potential "hitters" was also ambiguous. Let's not compound the confusion.
  #12  
Old 01-26-2020, 06:51 AM
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Nitpick: I like language to be very precise here at SDMB; it increases clarity and avoids confusions. I don't even like acronyms unless they're very well known.

Thus my disappointment that the slang term "hit" is used in this thread almost to the exclusion of more meaningful words like "execution" or "murder." If nothing else, insistence on the slang term is just silly. And "hit" doesn't always mean murder. UIAM in the news business, a "hit job" is not a murder — it's a concentrated effort to slur in print media. "Hit" has other slang meanings as well.

IIRC the allegedly incriminating language from the alleged potential "hitters" was also ambiguous. Let's not compound the confusion.
UIAM?
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:03 AM
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Nitpick: I like language to be very precise here at SDMB; it increases clarity and avoids confusions. I don't even like acronyms unless they're very well known...UIAM
C'mon, this had to be intentional, right?

WWNNK...




(Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge, KnowwhatImean?)

Last edited by digs; 01-26-2020 at 08:04 AM.
  #14  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:28 AM
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In view of BrotherCadfael's response. To be clear, this isn't a gotcha. I'm only talking about if Trump was involved in organizing/ordering a hit on Yovanovitch. If a mod would like to add "on Yovanovitch" to the subject line, time that would be fine with me.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 01-15-2020 at 08:30 AM.
  #15  
Old 01-15-2020, 08:51 AM
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I would hope this gets a full investigation.
  • Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"
  • Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.

WTF is all that?
  #16  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:19 AM
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I would hope this gets a full investigation.
  • Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"
  • Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.

WTF is all that?
If it wasn't an intended hit, I can think of a few other things it might have been and none of them were good, particularly for a woman.
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Old 01-15-2020, 01:53 PM
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I would hope this gets a full investigation.
  • Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"
  • Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.

WTF is all that?
My question from the cheap seats, do we have definite dates for all of these things?

The date July 25, 2019 is burned into my memory for bullet point #1.

According to the screenshots in the Twitter posts JohnT shared in the Impeachment Inquiry thread, bullet point #2 dates to March 25 and March 26, 2019.

Not sure what the date is for bullet point #3. I can only guess that it is also March 25, 2019.

I don't know how to date bullet point #4, but it must have been on or before April 25, 2019. April 25, 2019 was the day Ambassador Yovanovitch returned to Washington D.C.

ETA: So, re-ordering the list chronologically:
  • 3/25-26/2019 - Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • 3/25/2019 - Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • On or before 4/25/2019 - Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.
  • 7/25/2019 - Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"

~Max

Last edited by Max S.; 01-15-2020 at 01:56 PM.
  #18  
Old 01-15-2020, 02:11 PM
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My question from the cheap seats, do we have definite dates for all of these things?

The date July 25, 2019 is burned into my memory for bullet point #1.

According to the screenshots in the Twitter posts JohnT shared in the Impeachment Inquiry thread, bullet point #2 dates to March 25 and March 26, 2019.

Not sure what the date is for bullet point #3. I can only guess that it is also March 25, 2019.

I don't know how to date bullet point #4, but it must have been on or before April 25, 2019. April 25, 2019 was the day Ambassador Yovanovitch returned to Washington D.C.

ETA: So, re-ordering the list chronologically:
  • 3/25-26/2019 - Trump cronies apparently have Yovanovich under physical surveillance paying special attention to the security detail surrounding her.
  • 3/25/2019 - Trump crony notes that you can get anything done in Ukraine if you're willing to pay.
  • On or before 4/25/2019 - Ukrainian security service contacts Yovanovich in the middle of the night and says she's in danger. Leave the country immediately.
  • 7/25/2019 - Trump says that Yovanovich "will go through some things"

~Max
This is a good way of looking at it. It may be noteworthy that July 25th also happens to be the date that Trump was at peak pique about Ukraine's Zelensky doing him "a big favor tho". So saying, "she's going to go through some things", was Trump's Goodfella way of impressing upon Zelensky how serious he was about extracting that favor and the length he was willing to go to get his way.
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:51 AM
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Well yeah, but remember Hillary killed 21 people. [/sarcasm]
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:08 AM
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Fuck impeachment, he should die in prison for that one.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:24 AM
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Rather than whatever grisly shit you're imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her.

Last edited by CarnalK; 01-15-2020 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:26 AM
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Rather than whatever grisly shit you're imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her.
I wish I had your optimism. I'm pretty sure most people aren't agog at the idea you can pay someone to carry out basic surveillance, even in Ukraine.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:49 AM
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I wish I had your optimism. I'm pretty sure most people aren't agog at the idea you can pay someone to carry out basic surveillance, even in Ukraine.
Most people don't express being agog with "lol".

Eta: not that this isn't shady as fuck.

Last edited by CarnalK; 01-15-2020 at 10:52 AM.
  #24  
Old 01-15-2020, 03:43 PM
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Rather than whatever grisly shit you're imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her.
But why? If the America-hating fuckstick wanted her gone, he didn’t even NEED an excuse. And if he felt the urge to put a fig leaf on it, I hire all the best people, and Obama hired only the worst people was certainly one he wouldn’t feel any hesitation to deploy.

ISTM that he wanted to make sure that she didn’t have a smoking gun that would blow away the Hunter Biden issue before he pulled the trigger (so to speak) on her dismissal.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:03 PM
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Rather than whatever grisly shit you're imagining, they probably just wanted to know who she was meeting with in order to keep ahead of her or to discredit her.
Hyde was reporting he already had her under surveillance. So why would he be acting like it was something he was going to do? And why would he be discussing prices with the watchers to do something they had already done?

From the context, the most obvious conclusion is that Hyde had placed Yovanavitch under surveillance as just a preliminary step in the overall plan. And now that he had accomplished this, he was working on the next step. Something which was going to cost him more money and involved knowing when Yovanavitch would be out in the open and what kind of security protection she had.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:18 PM
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Hyde was reporting he already had her under surveillance. So why would he be acting like it was something he was going to do? And why would he be discussing prices with the watchers to do something they had already done?

From the context, the most obvious conclusion is that Hyde had placed Yovanavitch under surveillance as just a preliminary step in the overall plan. And now that he had accomplished this, he was working on the next step. Something which was going to cost him more money and involved knowing when Yovanavitch would be out in the open and what kind of security protection she had.
Based off that Mother Jones article linked on the first page, I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that Hyde was "surveiling" Yovanavitch by staring at the closed door of an unplugged microwave oven.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:49 PM
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Based off that Mother Jones article linked on the first page, I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that Hyde was "surveiling" Yovanavitch by staring at the closed door of an unplugged microwave oven.
It should work if it's a Radarange.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:52 AM
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Based off that Mother Jones article linked on the first page, I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that Hyde was "surveiling" Yovanavitch by staring at the closed door of an unplugged microwave oven.
I have no problem with the idea that Hyde is delusional. But how does that exonerate Parnas?

If Hyde was a crazy man hatching a delusional plot against an American ambassador, Parnas should have notified somebody in an official capacity. If Hyde was a semi-sane man carrying out an actual plot against an American ambassador, Petras should have notified somebody in an official capacity.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:02 PM
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I have no problem with the idea that Hyde is delusional. But how does that exonerate Parnas?

If Hyde was a crazy man hatching a delusional plot against an American ambassador, Parnas should have notified somebody in an official capacity. If Hyde was a semi-sane man carrying out an actual plot against an American ambassador, Petras should have notified somebody in an official capacity.
Certainly Parnas should have notified someone if either of those were the case. But as to exonerating Parnas, at this point he doesn't need it, as no plot to kill the ambassador has been established, to say the least. I'm all for theoretical discussions, but isn't this jumping the gun quite a bit?
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:45 AM
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There's some evidence starting to come out that there may have been a conspiracy to organize a hit on Yovanovitch. Assuming that Trump is involved in this at any level certainly, that would be a 100% impeachable* right?
As has been pointed out several times in the past, anything is impeachable if Congress says it is.
Quote:
Are there any Trumpists or Trumpist-lite that would like to state a position on this in advance of any additional evidence emerging? Is anybody willing to say unequivocally in advance that they would support his removal from office over this (if true)?
I'm going to stick my neck way, way out there and say Yes. If Trump conspired to have an ambassador murdered, he should be impeached and removed from office. I am sure you are all in awe of my courageous commitment to principle, but that is a burden I have learned to bear humbly.

I am hoping this isn't an attempt at a gotcha where you suddenly reveal that Trump had some American citizen killed in a drone strike in Afghanistan, but I am an incurable optimist.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:46 AM
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As has been pointed out several times in the past, anything is impeachable if Congress says it is.
I'm going to stick my neck way, way out there and say Yes. If Trump conspired to have an ambassador murdered, he should be impeached and removed from office. I am sure you are all in awe of my courageous commitment to principle, but that is a burden I have learned to bear humbly.

I am hoping this isn't an attempt at a gotcha where you suddenly reveal that Trump had some American citizen killed in a drone strike in Afghanistan, but I am an incurable optimist.

Regards,
Shodan
No gotcha. Not from me anyway, and I hope not from anybody else. My intent is purely about the recent evidence that suggests there may have been at least a conspiracy to plan the assassination of Yovanavitch.

Honestly, I'm not expecting anybody to say they wouldn't support removal. I cannot imagine how, and at least from my own selfish point of view, any attempt ought to be hilarious. I can imagine some people will try to skirt the issue and not answer the question.

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 01-15-2020 at 09:49 AM.
  #32  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:12 AM
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I'm going to stick my neck way, way out there and say Yes. If Trump conspired to have an ambassador murdered, he should be impeached and removed from office.
This is an admirable stance and I applaud you for it. However, I do not believe Republicans in office would vote to convict nor would it move the needle for his base. You certainly have principles, but Moscow Mitch does not. As long as he gets his right wing judges and the base will not move, there is no chance for conviction.
  #33  
Old 01-15-2020, 09:49 AM
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If Trump did such a thing, and the evidence was overwhelming and clear, he'd be impeached and deposed, for sure. Likely a unanimous vote in House + Senate. You'd have President Pence by the end of the week.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:33 PM
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If Trump did such a thing, and the evidence was overwhelming and clear, he'd be impeached and deposed, for sure. Likely a unanimous vote in House + Senate. You'd have President Pence by the end of the week.
I disagree. Thats like going to Georgia in 1940 and saying 'if the KKK really did lynch that black guy, then the justice system will work the way its supposed to'.

Things are pretty fucked up in America. Even if Trump tries to have people killed, the GOP and his base won't abandon him.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:14 AM
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You (Velocity) are more optimistic about Mitch McConnell's honor than I am.

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  #36  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:19 AM
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You (Velocity) are more optimistic about Mitch McConnell's honor than I am.
His what??!!!
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:24 AM
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There's some evidence starting to come out that there may have been a conspiracy to organize a hit on Yovanovitch.
I hate, hate, hate to be a "cite please?" person, but where did you hear this?
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:31 AM
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I hate, hate, hate to be a "cite please?" person, but where did you hear this?
Read this:
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https://www.ft.com/content/839be6dc-...3-9a26f8c3cba4

Yet the most arresting documents may be a series of messages last year between Mr Parnas and Robert F Hyde, a Republican Congressional candidate in Connecticut and Trump supporter. They suggest the two kept Marie Yovanovitch, a US ambassador they believed was hostile to Mr Giuliani’s mission in Ukraine, under surveillance.

“Wow. Can’t believe Trumo [sic] hasn’t fired this bitch. I’ll get right in that,” Mr Hyde wrote on March 23, 2019.

About three hours later he sent Mr Parnas an update on Ms Yovanovitch’s whereabouts: “She under heavy protection outside Kiev.”

Two days later, Mr Hyde wrote to Mr Parnas: “They are moving her tomorrow . . . The guys over they [sic] asked me what I would like to do and what is in it for them.”

Then, after he appeared to urge Mr Parnas to wake up, My Hyde added: “She’s talked to three people. Her phone is off. Her computer is off . . . She’s next to the embassy . . . Not in the embassy.”

Later that day, Mr Hyde wrote: “They are willing to help if we/you would like a price . . . Guess you can do anything in the Ukraine with money . . . what I was told.”

“Lol,” Mr Parnas replied.
It's pretty amazing to read. Also being an incurable optimist, I suspect that Dr. Jekyll's alter-ego was just playing at being a mob boss because he's a rich idiot and got caught up in using innuendo, rather than actually making a serious attempt at assassination.
  #39  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:06 AM
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It's pretty amazing to read. Also being an incurable optimist, I suspect that Dr. Jekyll's alter-ego was just playing at being a mob boss because he's a rich idiot and got caught up in using innuendo, rather than actually making a serious attempt at assassination.
Tough talk is one thing. But Hyde says he was actually talking with people and discussing prices.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:40 AM
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I hate, hate, hate to be a "cite please?" person, but where did you hear this?
Left Hand of Dorkness posted a link. I explicitly tried to stay away from posting this in hopes that it wouldn't become a tangent on the credibility of the evidence revealed so far, which granted is not much. I don't know if it has been corroborated. So, I tried to keep it purely in the hypothetical. Here is the original source material as well.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploa...attachment.pdf
  #41  
Old 01-15-2020, 10:44 AM
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OK, thanks.

Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he'd be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison.
  #42  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:02 AM
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Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he'd be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison.
Dick Cheney would be saying that's going too far.
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:31 AM
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OK, thanks.

Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he'd be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison.
I disagree. Republicans would circle the wagons, as usual.

Lies would be told. Stories muddled.
"BOTH SIDES! HILLARY MURDERED PEOPLE!"
Moscow Mitch would come to Trump's defense.
Yovanavitch would be smeared by Fox News.
Republican politicians would humph and haw and say "that's not a good thing, but...."

In short; Nothing would change.
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Old 01-16-2020, 04:33 PM
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OK, thanks.

Anyhow, if it becomes a thing that Trump ordered a hit on a US ambassador, he'd be yanked out of office pronto. It would make Watergate look like nothing in comparison.
Unless there is actual video of him ordering it in clear, unambiguous language, the Republicans would absolutely let it slide.
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2020, 05:34 PM
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Unless there is actual video of him ordering it in clear, unambiguous language, the Republicans would absolutely let it slide.
And even then I wouldn't bet my house on them. Hell, I wouldn't even bet $20.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 01-16-2020 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:46 AM
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Here's another pretty good explainer. The stuff about the apparent surveillance of Yovanovitch is toward the end of the article.

It sounds to me like Hyde is claiming to have a contact inside the embassy who is able to provide information on Yovanovitch's movements. On 3/25, he tells Parnas, "she is being moved tomorrow". The next day Hyde reports to Parnas that Yovanovitch is not being moved. He says his "contacts" can't keep asking what's going on because it will draw attention. He then says: "If you want her out they need to make contact with security forces." I interpret this as meaning, "If you want Yovanovitch to be moved outside the embassy, my contacts can talk to the security forces and make it happen." How this would be accomplished I have no idea. Hyde is a former Marine, and I believe Marines handle embassy security, so there's certainly the possibility that he had contacts there who could influence her movements. But if Hyde is telling Parnas he can arranng for Yovanovitch to leave the embassy, I have to ask, "What the actual fuck?" I mean, there's really no innocuous explanation for that. Whether they're trying to kill her or simply discredit her somehow, it's fucked up.
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Old 01-15-2020, 10:54 AM
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I thought I heard that Hyde is running for Congress from Connecticut. This has got to kill his campaign, if not lead to charges against him. What legitimate reason would he have to monitor the ambassador's movements? And this damning quote: "They are moving her tomorrow . . . The guys over they [sic] asked me what I would like to do and what is in it for them." WTF?

Who was directing Mr. Hyde? If it came from the Golfer-in-Chief, I'd like to be the first to call it the Strange Case of Doctor Jackoff and Mister Hyde.
  #48  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:04 AM
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To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency:

Quote:
According to an “incident/investigation” report filed by the Doral, Florida, police department, on May 16, 2019, an officer was dispatched to the Trump National Doral Miami to deal with a “male in distress fearing for his life.” That man was Hyde. The report noted that Hyde explained to the police officer that “he was in fear for his life, was set up and that a hit man was out to get him. Mr. Hyde spoke about e-mails he sent that may have placed his life in jeopardy. Mr. Hyde explained several times that he was paranoid that someone was out to get him.”

The report stated that Hyde cited “a variety of different names, contacts and provided information in reference to why he felt his life was in danger.” After being taken into custody by the police, according to the report, “Mr. Hyde continued to act paranoid telling us not to stop next to certain vehicles…[H]e explained that he was scared due to several painting workers and landscape workers trying to do harm to him because they weren’t working. Additionally Mr. Hyde explained that his computer was being hacked by Secret Service. And then went on to further explain that the secret service [sic] was arrival [sic] on the premises watching him.”

The police report said that “it was determined that Mr. Hyde was suffering from a [redacted],” that he was “transported to [redacted] for further evaluation,” and that a “crisis form was filled and filed.”

The report classified the incident as “Baker/Marchman Act.” In Florida, the Baker Act and the Marchman Act allow for holding people who might harm themselves involuntarily for assessment. (The Baker Act specifically refers to persons who might be suffering from a mental illness.) The report did not say what happened with Hyde after he was transported to the redacted location. But Hyde posted a note on Instagram stating that he had been “Baker Acted” for nine days and placed into “a facility” where his “mental, emotional, and physical self” were “pushed.” He noted that he had passed “all medicals, physicals, psych exams and diagnoses with flying colors.” Hyde, a former Marine, also wrote, “I’m not a traitor or a colluder or a conspiracy theorist.” And he added, “eff you and your intelligence agencies or whatever or whoever was or is effing with me.”
Cite.

And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven't had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn't responding much.

Hyde somehow has the means to donate tens of thousands of dollars to various Republicans, and this has got him lots of photos with people like Trump. But now I'm starting to lean to the explanation that he's a mentally unwell guy who got Parnas's contact information and Parnas probably wants him to go away. Parnas's lawyer said as much in a Tweet, denying that Parnas was involved in any surveillance and saying that they believe Hyde's "activities to be a reflection on his dubious mental state."

Last edited by Miller; 01-15-2020 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Fixed link
  #49  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:14 AM
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To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency:

Cite.

And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven't had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn't responding much.

Hyde somehow has the means to donate tens of thousands of dollars to various Republicans, and this has got him lots of photos with people like Trump. But now I'm starting to lean to the explanation that he's a mentally unwell guy who got Parnas's contact information and Parnas probably wants him to go away. Parnas's lawyer said as much in a Tweet, denying that Parnas was involved in any surveillance and saying that they believe Hyde's "activities to be a reflection on his dubious mental state."
Fixed link: https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ort-last-year/
  #50  
Old 01-15-2020, 11:24 AM
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To be fair, it also looks like Hyde is pretty unstable. His interactions with the media and pretty much everyone appear to be a long stream of profanity. On May 16, 2019, Hyde turned up at Trump Doral Miami and may have had a mental health emergency:

And, at least from the WhatsApp messages I saw excerpted (I haven't had a chance to read to source documents yet), it looks like Hyde was sending all these messages to Parnas, and Parnas wasn't responding much.
Hyde does look pretty unstable. But Lev Parnas was communicating with Hyde and was aware enough of what Hyde was saying to respond to him even after Hyde outlined his plans.

If Hyde was some lone nut who started this all on his own, Parnas should have contacted the State Department and told them there was a crazy man stalking Yovanovitch.
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