Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #36101  
Old 12-30-2017, 07:37 AM
John DiFool's Avatar
John DiFool is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 18,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
In Russia, puppet makes YOU dance.
Hello, I want to play a game?
  #36102  
Old 12-30-2017, 10:42 AM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou
Sessions Says to Courts: Go Ahead, Jail People Because They’re Poor
https://nyti.ms/2E3SjlL


As long as we're returning to Dickensian times, why don't we put children back to work in factories and coal mines, too? That way they can make a little money, and we can stop wasting taxpayer funds on schools. Win-win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsb View Post
Of course this in no way will disproportionately affect Blacks and Women in jail for
minor drug and prostitution crimes.
Family values! ... when the parents get thrown in prison for minor offenses and used for slave labor, instead of wasting money on foster care, the kids work alongside their parents!

Saving taxpayer money and returning us to traditional American family ties and work ethic.

MAGA! ...Make America Ghetto Again
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."
  #36103  
Old 12-30-2017, 11:10 AM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal
Well, you could have provided a holy fuck link for that,
I have already spoken to three US presidents. They come and go … they may have some ideas. Then people with briefcases arrive, well dressed, wearing dark suits, just like mine, except for the red tie, since they wear black or dark blue ones. These people start explaining how things are done. And instantly, everything changes.
That is some prime paranoia feedstock.
Is it, though?

Donald Trump ran on: Stopping the wars in the Middle East
(expanded the drone war 440% and we're now at 8 military interventions counting Niger, authorized continuing the Afghanistan war for a 17th year when he absolutely didn't have to)

Standing up against Wall Street, eliminating tax loopholes
Gave Wall Street the biggest tax cut in history, *added tax loopholes.

Ending outsourcing of jobs, opposing free trade deals
Outsourced 90,000 jobs in his first year - stopped the TPP immediately after entering office, but it was pretty much dead already - now trying to reinsert the provisions of the TPP into the NAFTA "renegotiation."

And on and on it goes..

Barack Obama ran on:

Ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan
Expanded us from those 2 wars to military interventions in 7 different countries. Massively increased drone strikes over Bush era levels. Dropped so many bombs in 2015 and 2016 we literally ran out.

Closing Guantanamo Bay, ending torture:
Still open - when the CIA torture report got plastered all over the news, revealing atrocities, Obama basically shrugged and said "that's in the past, we should focus on the future" and did nothing to prevent it from happening more.

Restoring privacy, ending NSA spying:
NSA spying massively expanded under his administration, NDAA passed, more whistle-blowers persecuted under the Espionage Act than any other administration in history.

..and on and on. Obama had his moments where he stepped outside of the acceptable continuum of economic and foreign policy (Cuba, Iran, the stimulus programs) just as Trump has had a couple moments where he has as well in his own gross way (The travel ban, gutting federal agencies, etc).

But each did a 180 on economic and foreign policy not long after assuming office. I'm not saying a group of cigar-smoking suits pulls the President aside the day after Inauguration and plays a video of the JFK assassination taken *from the grassy knoll, and asks "Any questions?" BUT it's not paranoid to suggest that every President falls in line with what the establishment wants.

Or doesn't, at their own peril. For Dijit, the constant threat of impeachment I am sure is the stick.. personally enriching himself via inflicting damage on everyone else, as was done in the tax bill, is the carrot. Obama, who knows? I'm sure re-election was a big limiting factor in his first 4 years, and he did a fair bit of personal enriching himself, he was just less blatant about it.

By the time he actually got around to trying to do anything worthwhile he'd lost the supermajority and couldn't sneeze without the Republicans signing for it in triplicate.

You could argue that politicians are just full of shit, and to that I'd have to agree.. but completely reversing yourself on virtually all your campaign promises and pissing off your base isn't compromise or making the best of your situation - it's something you're forced into.
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."
  #36104  
Old 12-30-2017, 11:14 AM
jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 37,128
It might be less paranoid to just note that you DON'T KNOW what the reality of the situation is until you're actually in the big chair and getting full intelligence reports, and you don't know what the Congress you're dealing with is going to look like, necessarily, until the election is over. Campaign rhetoric is aspirational. Actual presidential actions are reality-based (usually...Trump is a bit of a test of that).
  #36105  
Old 12-30-2017, 11:22 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 15,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
It might be less paranoid to just note that you DON'T KNOW what the reality of the situation is until you're actually in the big chair and getting full intelligence reports, and you don't know what the Congress you're dealing with is going to look like, necessarily, until the election is over. Campaign rhetoric is aspirational. Actual presidential actions are reality-based (usually...Trump is a bit of a test of that).
This. Saying what you'll do while you're still outside trying to get the job is one thing. Sitting at the Big Desk is something completely different.

This is true in every kind of industry, not just the Presidency.
  #36106  
Old 12-30-2017, 12:01 PM
SaneBill is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 631
Well, trump said it best: "I thought it would be easier."
  #36107  
Old 12-30-2017, 12:11 PM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaneBill View Post
Well, trump said it best: "I thought it would be easier."
"Nobody knew [health care] [The Middle East] [taxes] [Israel] [legislation] [North Korea] [Iran] [border security] could be so complicated."

....No... we all knew. Because we're not arrogant fucking blowhards who overestimate their intelligence and ability by a factor of 10, as most willfully ignorant and functionally illiterate people tend to do.

(link to article with vid of Bernie Sanders laughing his ass off when he hears this quote from Twitler on the submit of healthcare).
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."
  #36108  
Old 12-30-2017, 03:54 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
... Obama had his moments where he stepped outside of the acceptable continuum of economic and foreign policy (Cuba, Iran, the stimulus programs) just as Trump has had a couple moments where he has as well in his own gross way (The travel ban, gutting federal agencies, etc).

But each did a 180 on economic and foreign policy not long after assuming office. I'm not saying a group of cigar-smoking suits pulls the President aside the day after Inauguration and plays a video of the JFK assassination taken *from the grassy knoll, and asks "Any questions?" BUT it's not paranoid to suggest that every President falls in line with what the establishment wants.

... completely reversing yourself on virtually all your campaign promises and pissing off your base isn't compromise or making the best of your situation - it's something you're forced into.
That analysis depends on the highly questionable premise that Trump cared about his campaign promises.

He wasn't "forced" to reverse himself on those promises; he just didn't care two cents about any of them. It was just stuff he said to get what he wanted. That's how he's conducted himself his entire life: say what people want to hear and while they're paying attention to the fantasy that you'll help them or do mutually-lucrative business with them, grab the cash and the headlines. Then do whatever you want!




(The only exception to this general rule is the 'putting Hillary in jail' promise. Vindictive grudge-holder that Trump is, he genuinely would like to fulfill that particular promise.)
__________________
__________________

Thread on my books (inexpensive gifts!) https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=866609
  #36109  
Old 12-30-2017, 04:50 PM
jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 37,128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
(The only exception to this general rule is the 'putting Hillary in jail' promise. Vindictive grudge-holder that Trump is, he genuinely would like to fulfill that particular promise.)
I don't think, if he weren't being investigated by Meuller over the Russia thing, that he would even be thinking or talking about Hillary. Hillary is just a deflection from the investigation problems.
  #36110  
Old 12-31-2017, 04:07 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
I don't think, if he weren't being investigated by Meuller over the Russia thing, that he would even be thinking or talking about Hillary. Hillary is just a deflection from the investigation problems.
I agree that Hillary is being used as a deflection--but at the same time, Trump genuinely dislikes her and would enjoy seeing her humiliated and, if possible, jailed. If there were no Russia investigation, Trump would still be using Hillary to get reactions from his rally crowds. She's a reliable topic for getting his fans excited and happy and applauding and cheering.

She's also an uppity woman who said bad things about him. And she freaking beat him in the popular vote--a fact that keeps coming up, deny it though Little Donnie may. He doesn't cope well with that sort of thing. (And he is joined by many Republicans who have their own issues with uppity women.)
__________________
__________________

Thread on my books (inexpensive gifts!) https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=866609
  #36111  
Old 12-31-2017, 07:08 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 49,576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
If there were no Russia investigation, Trump would still be using Hillary to get reactions from his rally crowds.
He does that anyway.
  #36112  
Old 12-31-2017, 08:28 PM
marshmallow is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
Donald Trump ran on: Stopping the wars in the Middle East
(expanded the drone war 440% and we're now at 8 military interventions counting Niger, authorized continuing the Afghanistan war for a 17th year when he absolutely didn't have to)
Trump said he would bomb the hell out of them, kill their families, and endorsed torture.
  #36113  
Old 12-31-2017, 10:37 PM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshmallow View Post
Trump said he would bomb the hell out of them, kill their families, and endorsed torture.
Yes, also true; when he wasn't promising to end the wars and start spending that money at home, which he did at most campaign rallies, he was promising to take out their families and "do torture. I'd do worse than torture."

That was part of what gave Trump mass appeal - he was the Rorschach Candidate. On most issues he'd have completely contradictory stances, often in the same week, sometimes in the same speech, and as I recall there were even a few instances where he contradicted himself within the same sentence.

People read into him what they wanted to read into him. People desperate for us to end the wars and focus on domestic affairs lauded his America First promises. People who wanted lots more dead Muslims, and piss themselves over terrorism that's 99.999999999% likely never to affect them or anyone they know, focused on his promises to be a savage maniac setting the world on fire.
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."

Last edited by AI Proofreader; 12-31-2017 at 10:38 PM.
  #36114  
Old 01-01-2018, 12:48 AM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,806
North Carolina is ranked as an authoritarian state without democracy in a ranking of elections around the world.
http://amp.newsobserver.com/opinion/...mpression=true
  #36115  
Old 01-01-2018, 10:01 AM
Maus Magill is offline
Not a real doctor.
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Nolensville, TN
Posts: 7,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
North Carolina is ranked as an authoritarian state without democracy in a ranking of elections around the world.
http://amp.newsobserver.com/opinion/...mpression=true
My heart weeps for my home state.
__________________
"I was thiiis close to making "Don't let GED become a lifestyle choice" my tagline, but then I saw some beer that needed drinking,and I forgot." - Annie
  #36116  
Old 01-01-2018, 11:20 AM
GreysonCarlisle's Avatar
GreysonCarlisle is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
North Carolina is ranked as an authoritarian state without democracy in a ranking of elections around the world.
http://amp.newsobserver.com/opinion/...mpression=true
A year-old article and bad research as well.
  #36117  
Old 01-01-2018, 03:22 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 6,709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
If there were no Russia investigation, Trump would still be using Hillary to get reactions from his rally crowds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
He does that anyway.
That's what I was saying. I was countering this opinion:

Quote:
Originally Posted by a poster View Post
I don't think, if he weren't being investigated by Meuller over the Russia thing, that he would even be thinking or talking about Hillary. ...
I agreed with that poster that Hillary IS being used as a deflection from Russia, BUT that even if there were no Russia investigation to inspire a need for deflection, DT would still be bashing Hillary. Because: fun and profit and happy happy rally crowds!
__________________
__________________

Thread on my books (inexpensive gifts!) https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=866609
  #36118  
Old 01-01-2018, 04:37 PM
Knowed Out's Avatar
Knowed Out is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Kakkalakee
Posts: 14,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
North Carolina is ranked as an authoritarian state without democracy in a ranking of elections around the world.
http://amp.newsobserver.com/opinion/...mpression=true
That is one deeply biased article, and makes a huge leap to conclude NC is not a functional democracy.

Yes, there's been gerrymandering issues, but on both sides.
Yes, the outgoing governor was a real pissant and arranged for his successor to have less government positions to appoint, but that just means we paid more consultants than office holders.
Yes, the HB2 bill was a debacle, but it was mainly a pissing contest between the pissant governor (who is now gone) and the city of which he used to be mayor. It wasn't a deliberate denial of rights to the transgendered because
A) it couldn't be enforced, according to the state attorney general who is now governor and
B) the former pissant governor was using fake outcry to justify his actions and the GOP voted along party lines, much as they currently do on the federal level. Does that disqualify all of the USA from being a functional democracy as well? Just because the majority opinion isn't what you wanted doesn't mean the state is no longer a democracy. It's a consequence of a government system we've been using and amending for over two centuries.

The examples cited don't make NC on the same level as Iran and Venezuela. The author references his own viewpoint as fact much like Jack Chick did in his Chick Tracts.
  #36119  
Old 01-01-2018, 05:11 PM
Chisquirrel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Yes, the HB2 bill was a debacle, but it was mainly a pissing contest between the pissant governor (who is now gone) and the city of which he used to be mayor. It wasn't a deliberate denial of rights to the transgendered because
A) it couldn't be enforced, according to the state attorney general who is now governor and
B) the former pissant governor was using fake outcry to justify his actions and the GOP voted along party lines, much as they currently do on the federal level.
Which is impressive, because they fucked their economy out of millions of dollars in the process.
  #36120  
Old 01-01-2018, 05:32 PM
foolsguinea is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Tornado Alley
Posts: 15,761
Did you seriously use the existence of bipartisan gerrymandering to argue that democracy is healthy in North Carolina? If you have 1) a persistent duopoly, in which 2) both parties have resorted to cheating just to win, then you don't have a functional democracy anymore, if indeed you ever did have. You have some kind of fake democracy.

Yes, like the USA.
  #36121  
Old 01-01-2018, 08:48 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,806
Quote:
That is one deeply biased article
That's the major newspaper in Charlotte.
  #36122  
Old 01-01-2018, 08:53 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,806
Wikileaks accused New York Times reporter Scott Shane of "colluding" with the Clinton State Department to release classified documents. Donnie Junior retweeted the claim. Shane replied with a series of tweets in which he said he, Hillary, AND WIKILEAKS worked together on the cables to react the names of people who might have gotten into trouble in their home countries if their names had been reported.
The article in the link is biased, but it does show the tweets involved.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2018/01/...ental-patient/
  #36123  
Old 01-01-2018, 09:48 PM
Knowed Out's Avatar
Knowed Out is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Kakkalakee
Posts: 14,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by foolsguinea View Post
Did you seriously use the existence of bipartisan gerrymandering to argue that democracy is healthy in North Carolina? If you have 1) a persistent duopoly, in which 2) both parties have resorted to cheating just to win, then you don't have a functional democracy anymore, if indeed you ever did have. You have some kind of fake democracy.

Yes, like the USA.
It's not widespread across the entire state. It did result in me losing the ability to vote for my usual district rep, but it wasn't an end to democracy. The article made it look like the problem was universal and one-sided. How about your state, or any other of the 50? Did the party in power change a voting district or two? Did it end democracy? It's the motherfucking goddamned hyperbolic tone of the article that has everybody assuming the worst. Again, the researcher was referring to his own conclusions and metrics as established fact.
  #36124  
Old 01-01-2018, 09:51 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 15,805
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
...Shane replied with a series of tweets in which he said he, Hillary, AND WIKILEAKS worked together on the cables to react the names of people who might have gotten into trouble in their home countries if their names had been reported....
Should that be "redact"?
  #36125  
Old 01-01-2018, 09:52 PM
Knowed Out's Avatar
Knowed Out is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: North Kakkalakee
Posts: 14,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
That's the major newspaper in Charlotte.
Actually, Raleigh. What does location have to do with it anyway? What newspaper doesn't have biased opinion pieces?
  #36126  
Old 01-01-2018, 10:32 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Actually, Raleigh. What does location have to do with it anyway? What newspaper doesn't have biased opinion pieces?
The author is a professor who was involved at one time in ME democracy efforts. As such, in a follow-up piece, he describes the response to his first editorial, the gets rolling with

Quote:
What we need is a Tar Heel Spring to restore the pride of North Carolina.
Oh. Um, yeah. TBF, he adds

Quote:
… ‘-Spring’ may not seem very helpful or hopeful. The Arab Spring looks like a colossal failure five years on. The only country that has significantly democratized is Tunisia. The Prague Spring of 1968 was crushed by Soviet tanks.
and goes on to say that Springs can take a while before we see lasting progress.
  #36127  
Old 01-02-2018, 09:43 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knowed Out View Post
Yes, the outgoing governor was a real pissant and arranged for his successor to have less government positions to appoint, but that just means we paid more consultants than office holders.
Cite?
  #36128  
Old 01-02-2018, 09:47 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greathouse View Post
It took you 36,059 posts to realize this thread is in the the pit? Kinda slow on the uptake aren't ya?
This is the Pit? I see more crazy talk over in GD.

Maybe this confusion is why I keep getting Mod Warnings.
  #36129  
Old 01-02-2018, 01:11 PM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Wikileaks accused New York Times reporter Scott Shane of "colluding" with the Clinton State Department to release classified documents. Donnie Junior retweeted the claim. Shane replied with a series of tweets in which he said he, Hillary, AND WIKILEAKS worked together on the cables to react the names of people who might have gotten into trouble in their home countries if their names had been reported.
The article in the link is biased, but it does show the tweets involved.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2018/01/...ental-patient/
So.. colluded with a newspaper to attempt to do journalism. I am SHOCKED. Shocked I say!

Seriously though.. we as a society need to lay off the Wikileaks bashing. It's coming from both sides of the aisle AND other journalists. I can easily foresee an even bleaker future for our media if we keep attacking those who attempt to expose secrets that embarrass our corrupt government. Every time we trash Wikileaks or leakers such as Edward Snowden, we're pushing ourselves further into to a future where all outlets talk about the Kardashians and the possibility of missing planes falling into black holes 24 hours a day.
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."
  #36130  
Old 01-02-2018, 01:24 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
So.. colluded with a newspaper to attempt to do journalism. I am SHOCKED. Shocked I say!

Seriously though.. we as a society need to lay off the Wikileaks bashing. It's coming from both sides of the aisle AND other journalists. I can easily foresee an even bleaker future for our media if we keep attacking those who attempt to expose secrets that embarrass our corrupt government. Every time we trash Wikileaks or leakers such as Edward Snowden, we're pushing ourselves further into to a future where all outlets talk about the Kardashians and the possibility of missing planes falling into black holes 24 hours a day.
If Wikileaks were a neutral arbiter, that would be fine, but they have clearly shown that they are pro-Russia and anti-USA, so no, we shouldn't stop trashing them when they deserve to be trashed, which is most of the time.
  #36131  
Old 01-02-2018, 01:48 PM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
If Wikileaks were a neutral arbiter, that would be fine, but they have clearly shown that they are pro-Russia and anti-USA, so no, we shouldn't stop trashing them when they deserve to be trashed, which is most of the time.
Frankly, I don't give a shit what their bias is. I don't care what the bias of any outlet is.

All I care about is whether the information the outlet presents is accurate. I have yet to catch Wikileaks spreading fabricated documents, lies, and propaganda. If they go the route of Fox News and start doing so, I'll agree with everyone else about Wikileaks.

If anti-US sentiment is what's motivating them to release the documents they do, so be it. We're a democracy, we deserve to see, for example, video of war-crimes committed by U.S. soldiers, systemic torture by the CIA, and proof of the NSA spying on millions of Americans. Without transparency, democracy is no better than dictatorship.
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."
  #36132  
Old 01-02-2018, 02:18 PM
wonky's Avatar
wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
Frankly, I don't give a shit what their bias is. I don't care what the bias of any outlet is.

All I care about is whether the information the outlet presents is accurate. I have yet to catch Wikileaks spreading fabricated documents, lies, and propaganda. If they go the route of Fox News and start doing so, I'll agree with everyone else about Wikileaks.

If anti-US sentiment is what's motivating them to release the documents they do, so be it. We're a democracy, we deserve to see, for example, video of war-crimes committed by U.S. soldiers, systemic torture by the CIA, and proof of the NSA spying on millions of Americans. Without transparency, democracy is no better than dictatorship.
Bias can be very important, since you can skew a story without ever fabricating anything or lying. If you can't determine the bias, you can't know where to look for other pieces of the story.
  #36133  
Old 01-02-2018, 02:41 PM
Robot Arm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 23,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
Frankly, I don't give a shit what their bias is. I don't care what the bias of any outlet is.

All I care about is whether the information the outlet presents is accurate. I have yet to catch Wikileaks spreading fabricated documents, lies, and propaganda. If they go the route of Fox News and start doing so, I'll agree with everyone else about Wikileaks.
If Wikileaks deliberately gathers and publishes incriminating documents from one party (or viewpoint, etc.) but not another, that's as misleading as any other sort of biased reporting.
__________________
Robot Arm. The name was practically synonymous with sleaze. ~ Jester
  #36134  
Old 01-02-2018, 02:59 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 16,806
David Clarke was temporarily blocked from Twitter for calling for his supporters to punch reporters and "give them a taste of their own blood". His account was unblocked once he took down the tweets in question.
http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/02/politi...ter/index.html
  #36135  
Old 01-02-2018, 05:52 PM
ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 49,576
You thought you were done hearing about Michelle Bachmann? You thought wrong. She's consulting with her top campaign adviser, God, about running for Al Franken's Senate seat.
  #36136  
Old 01-02-2018, 06:24 PM
Smapti is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 15,925
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
You thought you were done hearing about Michelle Bachmann? You thought wrong. She's consulting with her top campaign adviser, God, about running for Al Franken's Senate seat.
Is this the same God that told her to run for president in 2012? Considering how well that went for her, I'd be looking for a new consultant.
  #36137  
Old 01-02-2018, 06:32 PM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
If Wikileaks deliberately gathers and publishes incriminating documents from one party (or viewpoint, etc.) but not another, that's as misleading as any other sort of biased reporting.
I'm okay with that. If I want the other side of the story, I'll find an article from the 1,531 other print outlets talking about how Edward Snowden is a traitor, NSA spying is necessary for our safety and it's really not as bad as they're making it out to be, and it's not torture, it's enhanced interrogation and we have to do it or the terrorists win. Outliers like Wikileaks (when they actually do their work of verifying their sources, which they do) provide a necessary counterbalance to the standard narrative.
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."

Last edited by AI Proofreader; 01-02-2018 at 06:34 PM.
  #36138  
Old 01-02-2018, 06:41 PM
Ludovic is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: America's Wing
Posts: 29,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
I'm okay with that. If I want the other side of the story, I'll find an article from the 1,531 other print outlets talking about how Edward Snowden is a traitor, NSA spying is necessary for our safety and it's really not as bad as they're making it out to be, and it's not torture, it's enhanced interrogation and we have to do it or the terrorists win.
I can think of plenty of outlets that neither proclaim any of these things nor indulge in Snowden's obvious pro-russian bias.
  #36139  
Old 01-02-2018, 07:47 PM
Buck Godot's Avatar
Buck Godot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD outside DC
Posts: 5,741
Not an actual Republican pol or Media personality but I don't know where else to put this so here goes...


Pizzagate is still alive and well.

Apparently,

(Baby dressed up like alice in wonderland) + (pizza emoji) = Satanic Pedophile pimping out her two-year-old.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 01-02-2018 at 07:48 PM.
  #36140  
Old 01-02-2018, 08:30 PM
Robot Arm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 23,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
I'm okay with that. If I want the other side of the story, I'll find an article from the 1,531 other print outlets talking about how Edward Snowden is a traitor, NSA spying is necessary for our safety and it's really not as bad as they're making it out to be, and it's not torture, it's enhanced interrogation and we have to do it or the terrorists win. Outliers like Wikileaks (when they actually do their work of verifying their sources, which they do) provide a necessary counterbalance to the standard narrative.
I don't see that as being the other side of this story. Real balance would be if there was a group hacking Republican's and Trump's e-mails and putting them on line, and that isn't happening. Or at the very least, get Wikileaks to drop any "we open governments" bullshit and admit that they're happy not to look into the secrets of groups that they like.
  #36141  
Old 01-02-2018, 08:41 PM
Chimera is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In the Dreaming
Posts: 24,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
You thought you were done hearing about Michelle Bachmann? You thought wrong. She's consulting with her top campaign adviser, God, about running for Al Franken's Senate seat.
As a Minnesotan, I say "Go for it, Ms. Crazypants!"

Frank(en)ly, I don't think she'd make it past the primary. She may have been able to keep being re-elected in the most racist area of the state (Cambridge-St.Cloud area), but she isn't going to get the Republican nod.

Fuck, I think *I* could run against her and win.
  #36142  
Old 01-02-2018, 10:28 PM
AI Proofreader is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Posts: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
I don't see that as being the other side of this story. Real balance would be if there was a group hacking Republican's and Trump's e-mails and putting them on line, and that isn't happening. Or at the very least, get Wikileaks to drop any "we open governments" bullshit and admit that they're happy not to look into the secrets of groups that they like.

Sarah Palin's Emails Leaked By WikiLeaks

Republican Senator's Campaign Contributors Leaked by WikiLeaks

Take a look at the whole list in the wiki.. I think the narrative of WikiLeaks being partisan hacks who only release things to attack the DNC is a lot of sour grapes from the 2016 election, and a gross oversimplification.

If anything, WikiLeaks should be the natural *ally* of the left because the things they tend to expose - war crimes, prisoner mistreatment, torture, mass surveillance programs, environmental disasters and toxic dumping, etc - all tend to be things the left is universally opposed to, and the right generally looks the other way on when they aren't tacitly in support of it.
__________________
- Born after "computer" was a synonym for "woman" but before "worker" becomes a synonym for "robot."

Last edited by AI Proofreader; 01-02-2018 at 10:31 PM.
  #36143  
Old 01-03-2018, 12:26 AM
Chisquirrel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
You thought you were done hearing about Michelle Bachmann? You thought wrong. She's consulting with her top campaign adviser, God, about running for Al Franken's Senate seat.
Hypocrite Bachmann attempts to follow Hypocrite Moore's attempt at a Senate seat while invoking God. Republican Party attempts to ignore God's voice shouting down, "Fuck no!" yet again.
  #36144  
Old 01-03-2018, 06:21 AM
Ludovic is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: America's Wing
Posts: 29,841
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post
If anything, WikiLeaks should be the natural *ally* of the left because the things they tend to expose - war crimes, prisoner mistreatment, torture, mass surveillance programs, environmental disasters and toxic dumping, etc - all tend to be things the left is universally opposed to, and the right generally looks the other way on when they aren't tacitly in support of it.
It should be, and as a matter of fact, Democracy Now used to regularly report on WikiLeaks updates. Now that they've been revealed as a complete Russian puppet, not so much.
  #36145  
Old 01-03-2018, 07:30 AM
Dung Beetle's Avatar
Dung Beetle is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 16,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
As a Minnesotan, I say "Go for it, Ms. Crazypants!"

Frank(en)ly, I don't think she'd make it past the primary. She may have been able to keep being re-elected in the most racist area of the state (Cambridge-St.Cloud area), but she isn't going to get the Republican nod.

Fuck, I think *I* could run against her and win.
I want to believe you, but my childlike faith in the goodness of the universe has been shattered.
  #36146  
Old 01-03-2018, 02:49 PM
zoid's Avatar
zoid is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Chicago Il
Posts: 10,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
You thought you were done hearing about Michelle Bachmann? You thought wrong. She's consulting with her top campaign adviser, God, about running for Al Franken's Senate seat.
The entertainment value in this is worth it.
  #36147  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:14 PM
BigT's Avatar
BigT is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: "Hicksville", Ark.
Posts: 36,238
Quote:
Originally Posted by AI Proofreader View Post

Sarah Palin's Emails Leaked By WikiLeaks

Republican Senator's Campaign Contributors Leaked by WikiLeaks

Take a look at the whole list in the wiki.. I think the narrative of WikiLeaks being partisan hacks who only release things to attack the DNC is a lot of sour grapes from the 2016 election, and a gross oversimplification.

If anything, WikiLeaks should be the natural *ally* of the left because the things they tend to expose - war crimes, prisoner mistreatment, torture, mass surveillance programs, environmental disasters and toxic dumping, etc - all tend to be things the left is universally opposed to, and the right generally looks the other way on when they aren't tacitly in support of it.
What in the world does behavior back in 2008 have to do with the current issue? In 2016, they specifically leaked the DNC emails. Assange himself made it clear he was extremely anti-Clinton. Back in November of this year, we found that Assange was in contact with Trump Jr.

Wikileaks took a side in the 2016 election. They collaborated with Russia to try and stop Clinton from becoming president of the US. They specifically avoided anything that would hurt the other side.

Wikileaks became explicitly political, rather than remaining neutral. They did not merely leak all the information they had, but had an explicit agenda, as Assange made clear.
  #36148  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:15 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dung Beetle View Post
I want to believe you, but my childlike faith in the goodness of the universe has been shattered.
You are a fluke
Of the universe
You have no right to be here
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe
Is laughing
Behind your back


Give Up
  #36149  
Old 01-03-2018, 05:54 PM
digs's Avatar
digs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: West of Wauwatosa
Posts: 9,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
You are a fluke
Of the universe
You have no right to be here
And whether you can hear it or not
The universe
Is laughing
Behind your back


Give Up
Linkiness : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey6ugTmCYMk

(Late at night, I could hear an AM station that carried the "National Lampoon Radio Hour Half Hour"; this is so much more entertaining if you were already sick of "Desiderata"...)
  #36150  
Old 01-03-2018, 06:45 PM
smithsb is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: mid-Pacific
Posts: 2,960
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tr...tes-2018-01-03

Hot take from Agent Orange:

President Donald Trump dissolved his controversial voter-fraud commission late Wednesday, blaming states for not providing enough information. "Despite substantial evidence of voter fraud, many states have refused to provide the Presidential Advisory Commission on Election Integrity with basic information relevant to its inquiry," Trump said in a statement. "Rather than engage in endless legal battles at taxpayer expense, today I signed an executive order to dissolve the Commission."

Unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud - "Waaaa, Hillary did not beat me in popular vote."

States fault - or maybe protection of voter information.

Didn't give vice-Dotard information - or give to noted voter suppression champions such as "Kris Kobach, the Republican Secretary of State of Kansas, who is also now running for Kansas governor. Along with Kobach, three other commissioners have extensive backgrounds in voter suppression — Hans von Spakovsky of the Heritage Foundation, J. Christian Adams, president of the Public Interest Legal Foundation, and former Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell

Endless legal battles - The commission hasn’t turned over any documents to Dunlap, one of four Democrats on the 11-member commission. It hasn’t met since September, but it is was expected to issue a report early this year. Court ruled that the Republicans did indeed have to share information with democratic members.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017