#1  
Old 12-13-2019, 09:41 AM
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Calling People Stupid


Is this appropriate moderation?
From this thread: https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...=634302&page=2

Post that received the warning (#75):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smid View Post
Google barely existed in 2001 when the film was released, and these people would certainly not have a geocities webpage. So who's the stupid one now?
Warning (#88):
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
[Moderating]
How about "the one who just earned a Warning for insulting another poster"?
I think itís bad form to warn a poster for calling someone else stupid while backhandedly calling them stupid.
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:44 AM
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Par for the course. (manhattan was a mod at the time)

That said, TPTB do tend go easier on newbies, which Smid is not.

Last edited by Skywatcher; 12-13-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 12-13-2019, 09:47 AM
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Don’t think I could get upset about this one even if there were money in it for me.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
Par for the course. (manhattan was a mod at the time)

That said, TPTB do tend go easier on newbies, which Smid is not.
Yeah, but it always seemed to me that that snarky style of modding had died out.

I agree it isn't particularly insulting, but I do think mods should be held to, at minimum, the same standards as posters. And I don't think a poster would be able to reply to a poster asking who was stupid by saying "you."

I'm fine with throwing a little snark into moderation occasionally. This isn't a "quit having fun guys" post. Just not a fan of mods calling people stupid.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:38 AM
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Am I reading this right? In 2011, morbo called some fictional characters stupid. In 2019, smid called him stupid. Chronos moderated this with a little snark.

I'm pretty okay with that moderation (although I probably would've done a note, not a warning).
  #6  
Old 12-13-2019, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Wrenching Spanners View Post
I think itís bad form to warn a poster for calling someone else stupid while backhandedly calling them stupid.
Mods can call posters for trolling even though it's forbidden for non-mods to do so.

As far back as I remember, mods have been allowed to say things out loud that the rest of us can only think. That includes saying that something is stupid.
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:18 AM
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There's nothing wrong with that moderation. It was good moderation.
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:41 AM
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I don't see anything wrong with the moderator there, give it a rest.
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Old 12-13-2019, 11:44 AM
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Yeah, I thought it was OK moderation, too. That's why people won't become mods. They get picked on for every little thing.
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Old 12-13-2019, 01:21 PM
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Looks Ok to me, sound moderation.
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Old 12-13-2019, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrenching Spanners View Post
{...} I think itís bad form to warn a poster for calling someone else stupid while backhandedly calling them stupid.
I concur, just straight-up call the warned poster stupid! They don't the mods various types of jackboots for nothing.

CMC fnord!
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Old 12-13-2019, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
Mods can call posters for trolling even though it's forbidden for non-mods to do so.

As far back as I remember, mods have been allowed to say things out loud that the rest of us can only think. That includes saying that something is stupid.
Vulgar things too? Violent ones even? Where do you draw the line?

Of course Smid deserved the warning but the way it was issued makes me feel the fight against ignorance made one step back here.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:12 PM
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My mama always said, stupid is as stupid does.
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Old 12-13-2019, 10:41 PM
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Looks like a good moderation to me, too.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrenching Spanners View Post
I think itís bad form to warn a poster for calling someone else stupid while backhandedly calling them stupid.
I'm sorry Wrenching Spanners, but I think this particular warning was quite tasteful.

~Max
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Old 12-14-2019, 08:28 AM
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Vigilantism may be popular in the West but I for one find it distasteful when mob justice is stirred and led by the sheriff himself.
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Old 12-14-2019, 10:49 AM
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Was the mod wrong? Probably. Was that last comment a bit extreme? Definitely.
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Old 12-14-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UY Scuti View Post
Vulgar things too? Violent ones even? Where do you draw the line?

Of course Smid deserved the warning but the way it was issued makes me feel the fight against ignorance made one step back here.
I don't know. Maybe the boards have changed since you joined. But nothing about that comment struck me as extreme or unusual. I've seen numerous mods call a poster stupid for being stupid. As I said, they can call a troll a troll and a jerk a jerk. Describing the offense has to be allowed.

Nor do I think that slippery slope arguments apply. In the eighteen years I've been reading mods I've never seen behavior go beyond describing the offense. No name calling, no abuse. The line has always been apparent, and this doesn't cross it.
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Old 12-14-2019, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UY Scuti View Post
Vigilantism may be popular in the West but I for one find it distasteful when mob justice is stirred and led by the sheriff himself.
This post should consider decaf.
  #20  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isosleepy View Post
Donít think I could get upset about this one even if there were money in it for me.
Even if it was me I would almost appreciate the snark and learn from it more than some sugar-coated just-the-facts-mam kind of response or note. I wouldn't want every moderation to be like this but in context and considering the players it may almost be picture perfect.
  #21  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:53 AM
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I may be too quick to react when witnessing lack of fairness, but a strong sense of justice has been acknowledged to be associated with reason rather than emotion (source).
  #22  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:59 AM
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I have no problem with the mod snark. It's like when an oncoming cop clocks someone at 10 over the limit, does a for you and me illegal u-turn, and drives 15 or 20 over the limit to catch up with the speeder. That's the way she goes.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:18 PM
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Scuti, it's not the quickness, but the extremity. This is not the wild west, there is no justice to be served. It was a mod decision, and the mods and admins will handle it.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
I've seen numerous mods call a poster stupid for being stupid.
Whether the users of this board receive this treatment occasionally or on a regular basis is irrelevant. Name calling is a form of verbal abuse.

Calling people stupid is not the same as calling them 'trolls' or 'jerks' because the latter situation implies breaking certain board rules whereas the former is mere name calling. There may be situations where moderators are entitled to believe some user manifests ignorance; in that case they should civilly (and firmly if necessary) educate him or her. But if moderators resort to name calling, the lesson learned is none other than "people in power always get away with abuse" and/or "abuse of power is not a crime."
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atimnie View Post
Scuti, it's not the quickness, but the extremity. This is not the wild west, there is no justice to be served. It was a mod decision, and the mods and admins will handle it.
Since extreme behavior is antisocial I don't think there is anything extreme in my post. I have simply made use of a metaphor to suggest that a moderator's actions should follow the rules everybody is required to observe. It is my conviction that even if a moderator's abuse of power is condoned by board users, his or her actions are still wrong, and if my statement is considered extreme and antisocial I must accept the fact what we have radically different opinions on right and wrong.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:17 PM
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I never said it was anti-social, but the comparison to the wild west, whether you'll admit it or not, was extreme and over the top.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UY Scuti View Post
Whether the users of this board receive this treatment occasionally or on a regular basis is irrelevant. Name calling is a form of verbal abuse.

Calling people stupid is not the same as calling them 'trolls' or 'jerks' because the latter situation implies breaking certain board rules whereas the former is mere name calling. There may be situations where moderators are entitled to believe some user manifests ignorance; in that case they should civilly (and firmly if necessary) educate him or her. But if moderators resort to name calling, the lesson learned is none other than "people in power always get away with abuse" and/or "abuse of power is not a crime."
Maybe that's the lesson you learned, but not me.
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by atimnie View Post
I never said it was anti-social, but the comparison to the wild west, whether you'll admit it or not, was extreme and over the top.
All right, now I understand. I agree my metaphor was an exaggeration; the overstatement was meant to lay stress on what I perceived as a wrong state of affairs. Since this over-emphasis can indeed be regarded as offensive, I want to point out that my intention was not to insult anyone. I wanted to express my disapproval to a moderator's name calling and to urge board users not to make allowances for such abuse of power.
  #29  
Old 12-14-2019, 01:47 PM
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Maybe that's the lesson you learned, but not me.
Although I speak in good faith, I know I may be wrong. I am willing to learn.
  #30  
Old 12-14-2019, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UY Scuti View Post
All right, now I understand. I agree my metaphor was an exaggeration; the overstatement was meant to lay stress on what I perceived as a wrong state of affairs. Since this over-emphasis can indeed be regarded as offensive, I want to point out that my intention was not to insult anyone. I wanted to express my disapproval to a moderator's name calling and to urge board users not to make allowances for such abuse of power.
As illustrated in the very first reply, that's like closing the barn door after all the animals have escaped.
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Old 12-14-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Skywatcher View Post
As illustrated in the very first reply, that's like closing the barn door after all the animals have escaped.
I am not in the mood to talk about cowboys and the like anymore.

Let's discuss name calling.
  #32  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UY Scuti View Post
Let's discuss name calling.
There never was any name calling. There is nothing to discuss.
  #33  
Old 12-14-2019, 04:31 PM
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Come on. Smid is making a comical reference to "how stupid" Cusacks's character in Serendipity is said to be. He even mentions geocities. Surely that confirms it isn't a serious conversation. It is hard to imagine anyone taking offence if it happened in real life. I don't think it required any modding at all.

However, in exactly the same manner that Smid saw what was posted as a setup, Chronos sees an obvious punchline present itself because of Smid's choice of words and the urge to post it can't be resisted. And in doing so Chronos commits the same error. And again, who cares? It doesn't require modding either. As if such a thing were possible.
  #34  
Old 12-14-2019, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
There never was any name calling. There is nothing to discuss.
The problem there is that Chronos and Smid performed the same action. Both used a rhetorical question to ask who was stupid, clearly implying it is the person they were replying to.

So, if Chronos didn't cross the line, neither did Smid and his Warning should be rescinded.

If, in fact, there "wasn't any name calling," there very much is something to discuss.
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Old 12-14-2019, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
I don't know. Maybe the boards have changed since you joined. But nothing about that comment struck me as extreme or unusual. I've seen numerous mods call a poster stupid for being stupid. As I said, they can call a troll a troll and a jerk a jerk. Describing the offense has to be allowed.
And that's exactly where you logic fails. Since they are against the rules, being able to call someone a jerk or troll is necessary. However, being stupid is not against the rules, and thus is not necessary.

I've not been here quite as long as you, but I have been here 11 years. I cannot recall a single other incident where a mod called another poster stupid. I thus will take advantage of a Doper tradition, and ask the following

Cite?
  #36  
Old 12-14-2019, 09:51 PM
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Cite?
That's a fair question. I can't answer it. It's is my memory as a thing, but I can't give a specific year or a mod who did so. You're free to discount it if you wish.

SPOILER:
Yeah, I know. That's a terrible answer because we now can't get into a 45-post slap fight over it. What a disappointment to all the lurkers.
  #37  
Old 12-14-2019, 11:52 PM
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My mama always said, stupid is as stupid does.
I believe today you're supposed to say "learning disabled" is as "learning disabled" does.
  #38  
Old 12-15-2019, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrenching Spanners View Post
Is this appropriate moderation?
From this thread: https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...=634302&page=2

Post that received the warning (#75):


Warning (#88):


I think itís bad form to warn a poster for calling someone else stupid while backhandedly calling them stupid.
I agree bad form. Smid's reply was a play on words that were already expressed. Who would take that as a jab or an insult? It's hardly a heat seeking missile of nasty word play and the mod's reply was an unneccessary escalation. Rise above the fracas don't join it, Chronos Be Best!
  #39  
Old 12-15-2019, 11:24 AM
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Chronos spotted an opportunity for a clever wisecrack and took it. I thought it was great.
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  #40  
Old 12-15-2019, 03:29 PM
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How about, in a spirit of reconciliation, mentioning one's cousin is a preacher and offering his services in presiding over the marriage of a poster's parents?
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  #41  
Old 12-16-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
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I believe today you're supposed to say "learning disabled" is as "learning disabled" does.
ďLearning Differently AbledĒ
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