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  #101  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
Think about what, exactly? He's not entitled to smear my child, disabled folks, and other people's children because "white people".

Is anyone assaulting Huey's race? Just because we think he's bawbag, it doesn't mean that we are attacking him on the basis of race. We're calling him a racist, because he posts hateful screeds about anyone with even a drop of white blood. The argument that "those guys did it first" isn't an excuse. How about if none of us do it, to the extent possible?
Who was it who said "why hate people based on their race when there's a lot of better reasons to hate them?" (I want to say it was Denis Leary, but I can't seem to find it)

Last edited by Guinastasia; 01-11-2019 at 10:39 PM.
  #102  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Rushgeekgirl View Post
You are wrong about autism and empathy. Your cite is wrong about autism and empathy. Autistic people may have trouble expressing empathy but we certainly feel it.

But what the fuck do we know, right?
But you see, when you say that, what you are saying doesn't matter, because what Huey is hearing is:

"The n****** is being uppity and the white folks can't stand it"

Which proves that Huey is right about autism, and you are a racist. Apparently.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-11-2019 at 10:43 PM.
  #103  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:08 PM
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Steve King and Huey Freeman are both racists. Why should we condemn one and condone the other?
Oh Jesus Fucking Christ!

It should be obvious that there is a major difference between someone who actually has the power to abuse and harm people with his racism, and someone who is "racist" because he's fucking pissed to live in a society where even 53 years after the Civil Rights Acts, this country is blithely carrying on in a country that is being governed by a White Supremacist organization. And has the audacity to spout off on a message board.

Major - fucking - difference.

Do I like Huey Freeman's rhetoric? Maybe not.

Would we have much to say if I sat next to him in a bar? Maybe not.

But whether you realize it or not, you're proving him right. And he's right because you all have an idea of what a "productive" social justice warrior should be. That's all well and fine, but considering you're not actually, you know, the one who actually has to experience driving while black, I guess he's telling you he just doesn't give a fuck what you think.

Sorry, but not every black guy whose had the experience of being shit on by white supremacist America is going to protest like a polite gentleman. We can debate which approach is more or less effective, but if someone wants to go Malcolm X, who the fuck are you to complain about it. Again, it's not your fight..."brotha".

Last edited by asahi; 01-11-2019 at 11:10 PM.
  #104  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:17 PM
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Farzle.
  #105  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:28 PM
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Farzle.
I doesn't bear imagining what Huey hears inside his head when you say that.
  #106  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:40 PM
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Oh Jesus Fucking Christ!

It should be obvious that there is a major difference between someone who actually has the power to abuse and harm people with his racism, and someone who is "racist" because he's fucking pissed to live in a society where even 53 years after the Civil Rights Acts, this country is blithely carrying on in a country that is being governed by a White Supremacist organization. And has the audacity to spout off on a message board.

Major - fucking - difference.

Do I like Huey Freeman's rhetoric? Maybe not.

Would we have much to say if I sat next to him in a bar? Maybe not.

But whether you realize it or not, you're proving him right. And he's right because you all have an idea of what a "productive" social justice warrior should be. That's all well and fine, but considering you're not actually, you know, the one who actually has to experience driving while black, I guess he's telling you he just doesn't give a fuck what you think.

Sorry, but not every black guy whose had the experience of being shit on by white supremacist America is going to protest like a polite gentleman. We can debate which approach is more or less effective, but if someone wants to go Malcolm X, who the fuck are you to complain about it. Again, it's not your fight..."brotha".

So, for the sake of argument, black people are allowed to be antisemites, homophobes, they can use slurs against Asians, Native Americans, Latinos, etc?

You know your argument also applies to people like Fenris and Alessan, correct? You don't think Jews, of all people, aren't allowed to be pissed off and bitter?


Seriously, you have no idea how patronizing that is.



(Again, I don't care how Huey feels about white people. I do, however, think going after peoples' kids is fucked up. Shodan may be white. His daughter, however, is not.)
  #107  
Old 01-11-2019, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
...But whether you realize it or not, you're proving him right. And he's right because you all have an idea of what a "productive" social justice warrior should be. That's all well and fine, but considering you're not actually, you know, the one who actually has to experience driving while black, I guess he's telling you he just doesn't give a fuck what you think.

Sorry, but not every black guy whose had the experience of being shit on by white supremacist America is going to protest like a polite gentleman. We can debate which approach is more or less effective, but if someone wants to go Malcolm X, who the fuck are you to complain about it. Again, it's not your fight..."brotha".
Okay, I'll stop taking the piss for a moment and see if you can convince me that you/he have some point here. When you say "proving him right", what do you mean? Proving what, exactly?

If it's not our fight, and he's doesn't give a fuck what we think, then why is he here? Is there any intended productive purpose, or is he just venting?

I mean, you can go on all day about how he has a right to be angry and embittered. Fine. But what's the point in living a life that seems to consist of: I'm pissed off, so I'm going to abuse white people to show them how pissed off I am, and don't ever tell me I don't have a right to be abusive!

Or is he completely different in real life, and he imagines that this online toxic racially abusive performance art is going to lead us to some kind of epiphany about our nature as "white folk"? I mean, he claims that he doesn't just hang out with black people, but I don't believe he has any white friends if this is the way he acts IRL.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-11-2019 at 11:50 PM.
  #108  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:03 AM
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Okay, I'll stop taking the piss for a moment and see if you can convince me that you/he have some point here. When you say "proving him right", what do you mean? Proving what, exactly?
You're proving him right in the sense that you are trying to establish the rules of conduct for how black victims can speak to their white abusers. It's like trying to tell victims of sexual assault what's a valid claim of assault and how they should and should not feel about it.

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If it's not our fight, and he's doesn't give a fuck what we think, then why is he here? Is there any intended productive purpose, or is he just venting?
He wants you to understand how he feels. He doesn't give a fuck how you feel, because he's the one who's experienced racism, not as some meaningless academic or online debate, but as part of his reality and everyday experience. Talking about experiencing racial discrimination, and living its consequences since the day you're born...those are two different things.

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I mean, you can go on all day about how he has a right to be angry and embittered. Fine. But what's the point in living a life that seems to consist of: I'm pissed off, so I'm going to abuse white people to show them how pissed off I am, and don't ever tell me I don't have a right to be abusive!
Do you really feel abused by Huey? Really? He's some anonymous guy on the internet who apparently has ideas you don't like. But is that abuse?

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Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
Or is he completely different in real life, and he imagines that this online toxic racially abusive performance art is going to lead us to some kind of epiphany about our nature as "white folk"? I mean, he claims that he doesn't just hang out with black people, but I don't believe he has any white friends if this is the way he acts IRL.
This is a place where he can truly say what he wants.
  #109  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:07 AM
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So, for the sake of argument, black people are allowed to be antisemites, homophobes, they can use slurs against Asians, Native Americans, Latinos, etc?
No, not necessarily.

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You know your argument also applies to people like Fenris and Alessan, correct? You don't think Jews, of all people, aren't allowed to be pissed off and bitter?
Sure, to a degree. But they did get their holy land.

Do blacks have a holy land? They did have a black wall street once, but...it got burnt to the ground in one of America's worst race riots.

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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
(Again, I don't care how Huey feels about white people. I do, however, think going after peoples' kids is fucked up. Shodan may be white. His daughter, however, is not.)
I didn't see his comments as racist. I think it was a low-blow, but it wasn't racist per se.
  #110  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:25 AM
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[I'm quoting you out of order, to put the part I somewhat agree with first...]

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He wants you to understand how he feels. He doesn't give a fuck how you feel, because he's the one who's experienced racism, not as some meaningless academic or online debate, but as part of his reality and everyday experience. Talking about experiencing racial discrimination, and living its consequences since the day you're born...those are two different things....
Yes. As I said early in this thread, the first thing every person who grew up with privilege should do is shut up and listen, even if it makes us uncomfortable - especially if it makes us uncomfortable. I listened patiently to Huey for a long while in his first "Living While Black" thread before I eventually got sick of his nonsense at post #491 of that thread.

But there are two facets to listening. One is to try to appreciate what it's like to walk a mile in someone's shoes. That's something I'll try to have almost indefinite uncritical patience to try to hear. The other is to listen to their ideas. Context is still important of course, but ideas have objective value and merit. So you're not going to tell me that I shouldn't engage my critical faculties when a person from a marginalized group expresses an idea. I'm not going to apply a lower patronizing uncritical standard (a racist double standard), as though a history of marginalization handicaps someone's intellect. If Huey's is expressing his lived experience, that's one thing. But I'm going to engage and debate the ideas that originate in Huey's mind on their merits. Do you really think he'd prefer otherwise?

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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
You're proving him right in the sense that you are trying to establish the rules of conduct for how black victims can speak to their white abusers. It's like trying to tell victims of sexual assault what's a valid claim of assault and how they should and should not feel about it.
Huey is not being "proven right" - because I never claimed the opposite. I certainly never said that I'd grant him a pass and suck up any awful way he might behave toward me or others, just because he's black. Voicing your anger is one thing, but I'm not ever going to give anyone a pass on a sustained barrage of toxic bigoted rhetoric just because they belong to one particular marginalized group.

It's so easy to reduce this kind of identity-based double standard to absurdity. I mean, you basically have to put every human being into a monotonic hierarchy of victimhood in order to establish who is allowed to be how much of an asshole to whom. In the real world, a decent society requires baseline standards that must apply to everyone, and if he doesn't like that - well so far as I'm concerned he's welcome to fuck off, and I won't be wringing my hands that I'm not woke enough.

And here again, if you think otherwise, I think you're applying a patronizing (and frankly racist) lower standard of social ethics and morality to black people or other marginalized groups.

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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Do you really feel abused by Huey?
No, of course not. That's not what's at stake here - the fact that his language is abusive does not really concern me nearly so much as his toxic bigotry.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-12-2019 at 01:29 AM.
  #111  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:54 AM
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(Disclaimer: I'm a straight white guy)

Here's the basic problem:

When black people act in a fashion that white people are comfortable with, nothing fucking happens.

Only by violating the comfort boundaries of white people do black people ever get recognized or listened to.

MLK wasn't a popular figure before he was murdered. A majority of the country disapproved of what he was doing. Naturally not supporting his cause (as it's understood in various circles) is basically unthinkable to modern liberals (another disclaimer: I'm pretty liberal).

The Black Panthers also suffered for their actions, but they helped create a space for other, less extreme activists to move into the space that they created and foster lasting change. There's actually a pretty good movie about it called "The Black Panthers: Vanguard of the Revolution". Everyone should watch it, especially white people who think they're "woke". If the BPP hadn't been so extreme, and instead had acted "respectful" and hadn't been "uppity" and hadn't made white people feel "uncomfortable", then they wouldn't have accomplished much. When black people openly carried guns around the California statehouse suddenly white conservatives, including Saint Reagan himself, started thinking that gun control was desperately important. Wait, what? Look up the Mulford Act, AKA "wait, shit, black people are allowed to own guns and carry them around in public!?"

I don't speak for Huey Freeman, but I'm willing to listen to what he has to say.

I suspect that what he says that comes across as hyperbole is more an expression of frustration than anything else. But not just frustration, there's some truth in there. He isn't trolling, people just aren't fucking listening.

I suspect that every time a white person responds to a black person's complaints with "well, not me..." it comes across as at best a little ridiculous. Myself included.

Few of us want to imagine ourselves as being racist, but benefiting from a racist system without trying to do anything to change it is, by itself, at best ignorant and at worst racist.

I'll never claim to understand what non-white people go through, or non-male/non-straight people for that matter. But I'll try to listen and understand. Maybe other people should, too.
  #112  
Old 01-12-2019, 02:00 AM
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...
So have you read the "Living While Black" thread? Because you seem to be making generic points about white people and black people that are not responsive to any of the actual problems that people have expressed with Huey.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-12-2019 at 02:01 AM.
  #113  
Old 01-12-2019, 02:23 AM
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Oh, they got their HOLY LAND back! Well, then it's all okay! Everything's all sunshine and roses for the Jews now!

The reason I don't like Huey has fuck all to do with his anger about racism. He's got plenty of valid complaints there. It's the fact that he's an asshole and uses "but but but RACISM!!!!" as an excuse. Attacking peoples kids is being an asshole. Period. Claiming, "but I'm an oppressed person!" isn't a valid excuse. He doesn't want to be nice? Fine. But then don't expect anyone else to play nice either. Don't call people racial slurs, and then claim it's okay, because you're a minority, so you get a free pass. (His comments about "imported children", whatever it was he called Bricker, comments about kids with autism, etc) THAT is being an asshole.
If someone shoves someone down the stairs, they're being an asshole. I don't care what their race/religion/age/sexual orientation is, they're an asshole. If someone insults a family member of mine, for no reason, they're an asshole.

His claims that we're attacking him because he's black would make about as much sense as me saying you're attacking me because I'm a woman.


Do you have any idea how incredibly patronizing your attitude is? Black people can't HELP being emotional -- they're so oppressed and fed up, they have no other way of acting. It's so insane.

The reason people believe he's a troll, (not a racist), is because a.) he only posts about one subject and one subject only and b.) he posts only in the Pit. Those are usually big signs that someone's a troll, no matter WHAT they're posting about.


There are no winners in the Oppression Olympics.


(I listened to what he had to say. I dropped out a long time ago)
  #114  
Old 01-12-2019, 02:53 AM
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So have you read the "Living While Black" thread? Because you seem to be making generic points about white people and black people that are not responsive to any of the actual problems that people have expressed with Huey.
I skimmed it, especially paying attention to the last few pages. I read both these threads and spent some time formulating my post above. My main take-away was that people hijacked the shit out of a thread about the suffering of black people to try to alleviate their guilt about their own inaction, along the lines of "but I can't possibly be racist..." At the very least we should make an effort to learn and attempt to understand, though understanding will probably elude us.

And accusing Huey or being racist? Well, tough shit. Everyone's racist. It's up to us how much we're willing to recognize and act on it.

If someone says "white people are racist" and the response is basically "no, you're racist!" Well, that's hypocritical as shit as far as I'm concerned. Black people are perfectly justified in being angry at how things have gone for them in the US, and I don't think it's my place to judge.

And basically my point is that if Huey wasn't provocative then this thread wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation. He's confrontational because he has to be, or else he gets ignored, and the very real problems that he's trying to address get ignored.

Is he offensive? From a white perspective, even a baseline liberal white perspective, yes. But is he wrong? Not my call. I'm not fit to judge his experiences in this country. Are you assuming that you are? Mighty fucking white of you.
  #115  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:03 AM
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...I don't speak for Huey Freeman, but I'm willing to listen to what he has to say...
But I'll try to listen and understand. Maybe other people should, too.
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Originally Posted by Discordian View Post
I skimmed it...
So your handing out patronizing lectures on how we should all listen and understand like you do. But you haven't actually bothered to read the thread.

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...I'm not fit to judge his experiences in this country. Are you assuming that you are? Mighty fucking white of you.
And I've never "assumed" anything remotely like this. I've emphasize several times the diametric opposite - that the first thing we must always do is shut up and listen - and you seem to know nothing about the actual complaints against Huey's behavior. So obviously you haven't bothered to read this thread either.

Fuck off, you patronizing idiot.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-12-2019 at 03:08 AM.
  #116  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:03 AM
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There is a difference between listening to what people have to say and accepting their bigotry.

I fucking tried when he first got here. I tried to help him. Hell, it was my idea to push for a "Living while Black" thread rather than his that sounded accusatory. And, for a short while, it seemed he was trying not to offend people.

But that went out the window. And even then I tried to help. But the Bricker situation is exactly when I gave up on him. I decided that, if a white racist had said that shit, they'd be on my ignore list, and so I treated him equally.

I still question if he's real, because assholes like him are exactly the right wing stereotype. I also question it because of that post where he sees how many times he can slip in the n-word. There was no fucking reason for it.

I can't say I have a lot of black real-life friends, but I've discussed racial issues with black people all the time, and at most they would use the word once, when discussing the word itself.
  #117  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:17 AM
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patronizing
The deflection is strong in this one.
  #118  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:21 AM
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I can't say I have a lot of black real-life friends, but I've discussed racial issues with black people all the time, and at most they would use the word once, when discussing the word itself.
And you still don't comprehend that this is the equivalent of "some of my best friends are black..."?

Discussing race is not the same as understanding the experiences of someone from another race.
  #119  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:23 AM
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The deflection is strong in this one.
Oh, I see you went to the Huey school of rhetoric (earlier reincarnated as asahi's "struck a nerve"). When faced with criticism, ignore the substance of the criticism and accuse the person of being "fragile". If someone gets pissed off at you, you must have fearlessly spoken the truth, because it's not as though other things such as acting like a supercilious hypocritical wanker ever gets a reaction out of people.

You two would probably get along just great - you could tell people that one of your friends is black.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-12-2019 at 03:28 AM.
  #120  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:32 AM
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Discussing race is not the same as understanding the experiences of someone from another race.
If you want people to take any of your dickish patronizing comments seriously, at least have the respect to go and read the fucking threads that you're commenting on, rather than projecting/manufacturing what faux pas you imagine we have probably committed and telling us where we went wrong.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-12-2019 at 03:33 AM.
  #121  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:45 AM
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If you want people to take any of your dickish patronizing comments seriously, at least have the respect to go and read the fucking threads that you're commenting on, rather than projecting/manufacturing what faux pas you imagine we have probably committed and telling us where we went wrong.
You don't need any help manufacturing faux pas. Just keep talking.
  #122  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:51 AM
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And I'm going to bed, but have a good night.
  #123  
Old 01-12-2019, 08:21 AM
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Oh, they got their HOLY LAND back! Well, then it's all okay! Everything's all sunshine and roses for the Jews now!

The reason I don't like Huey has fuck all to do with his anger about racism. He's got plenty of valid complaints there. It's the fact that he's an asshole and uses "but but but RACISM!!!!" as an excuse. Attacking peoples kids is being an asshole. Period. Claiming, "but I'm an oppressed person!" isn't a valid excuse. He doesn't want to be nice? Fine. But then don't expect anyone else to play nice either. Don't call people racial slurs, and then claim it's okay, because you're a minority, so you get a free pass. (His comments about "imported children", whatever it was he called Bricker, comments about kids with autism, etc) THAT is being an asshole.
If someone shoves someone down the stairs, they're being an asshole. I don't care what their race/religion/age/sexual orientation is, they're an asshole. If someone insults a family member of mine, for no reason, they're an asshole.
Here's what I meant to point out earlier.

I pointed out that Huey's "imported" child comments were in response to Shodan's remarks about black perpetrators. Even if Shodan weren't intending to load racism into his comments - and I concede in retrospect that that's possible - Shodan has a history here. Anyone remember this gem?

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...6&postcount=58

Quote:
Yes, I share Chris Rock's opinion that there is, or can be, a difference between being a nigger and being a black person.

And some of the point of the monologue is that it is not the case that "all you have to do to be called it is to be black". Chris Rock is not calling all black people niggers. And I thought he made the distinction rather clear.

Regards,
Shodan
So basically, Shodan is a white guy who seems comfortable using the word, and he further seems to be claiming to be an authority on differentiating regular black folk from n-----s. I somehow doubt that escaped Huey's attention when he made that remark about Shodan's "imported" child. It didn't take me long to find that comment, either. All topped off with that stupid smug "Regards, Shodan" signature to boot. And here you all are rushing to defend him. It's as if the resident "progressives" on SDMB have this obsession with liberals who make other liberals look bad. I'm sure that Huey has dealt with this before. I guess Huey is the black guy who makes other black guys look bad, right?

I don't think he gives a fuck whether you think he makes X people look bad, because he's living his life in spite of your hypocritical and invalid judgment. You're not his Sunday school teacher, and he ain't your boy. So deal with it.

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Do you have any idea how incredibly patronizing your attitude is? Black people can't HELP being emotional -- they're so oppressed and fed up, they have no other way of acting. It's so insane.
No, that's not it. There's individual variation among black people as to how they choose to address the fact that they were born into a society that was founded on white supremacy, and to be specific, white supremacy over black subjects. We still use the same constitution that enshrined an economic system that was inherently exploitative. Black people born in America have inherited all of that legacy. Immigrants, though they are indeed often the targets of discrimination, have inherited absolutely none of it. It's not the same.

It's up to the individual black person how they wish to address that. The conventional wisdom among fair-minded, moderate white progressives is that whites have changed, and that the best way to achieve progress is to trust that whites will be less racist going forward. Whites also point out that people like Huey are "polarizing" and "counter-productive." And politically, maybe they're right. I would find it hard to disagree that Martin Luther King was successful in large part because he chose non-violent protest and he operated in the spirit of integration and tolerance towards whites.

But what you don't understand -what you'll never understand - is that it's a burden that black people carry with them - every day. Jackie Robinson had people try to run him over in the base paths and call him the 'n' word during games. And he was told from day one that he couldn't fight back, even if someone pushed him to the edge. Barack Obama had the burden of being not just president, but being a model for black Americans. When Obama said "The officer acted stupidly" and "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin," much of white America lost its mind and called him a 'race-baiter.' Black people have the burden to be gentlemanly in the eyes of whites, even when whites in this society are held to a much lower standard in return. "Oh, I'm not really a racist, I just, I don't know...had a bad day and the word 'n----er' slipped out. I said I was sorry, right?"

So I can understand it if people like Huey say something like:

"Fuck that, I refuse to be burdened by your expectations of me, especially when I know you hold yourself to a lower standard. Whether you realize you do or not is none of my concern. My life experience and knowledge of American history is my guide here, not your words, and certainly not your attempt to saddle me with a guilt trip and lecture about the experiences of other groups of people you whites have marginalized over the years."

I think it's also good for whites to realize that there are Huey's out there, not just Martin Luther Kings, Jackie Robinsons, and Chris Rocks. I don't think the Hueys of the world are going to lead any kind of constructive inter-racial dialogue, but I think it's important to know that people like him exist. If I walk up to random guys on the street and say "Hey, guess what? I banged your mother." Most would probably stop just short of punching me in the face, but eventually, I'd find one who would. It's important to know that people like that exist, that you can't always count on people to be at their best, and how people choose to handle offense is up to the individual.

Whites need to understand that not every black person is interested in being Martin Luther King or Ghandi. Not everyone agrees that turning the other cheek is the best way to deal with racial oppression. It's important for whites to know that a system that is racist inevitably leads to racial tension, and some people are going to respond to that tension with militarism and hatred.
  #124  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:39 AM
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octopus octopus is offline
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Here's what I meant to point out earlier.

I pointed out that Huey's "imported" child comments were in response to Shodan's remarks about black perpetrators. Even if Shodan weren't intending to load racism into his comments - and I concede in retrospect that that's possible - Shodan has a history here. Anyone remember this gem?

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...6&postcount=58



So basically, Shodan is a white guy who seems comfortable using the word, and he further seems to be claiming to be an authority on differentiating regular black folk from n-----s. I somehow doubt that escaped Huey's attention when he made that remark about Shodan's "imported" child. It didn't take me long to find that comment, either. All topped off with that stupid smug "Regards, Shodan" signature to boot. And here you all are rushing to defend him. It's as if the resident "progressives" on SDMB have this obsession with liberals who make other liberals look bad. I'm sure that Huey has dealt with this before. I guess Huey is the black guy who makes other black guys look bad, right?

I don't think he gives a fuck whether you think he makes X people look bad, because he's living his life in spite of your hypocritical and invalid judgment. You're not his Sunday school teacher, and he ain't your boy. So deal with it.



No, that's not it. There's individual variation among black people as to how they choose to address the fact that they were born into a society that was founded on white supremacy, and to be specific, white supremacy over black subjects. We still use the same constitution that enshrined an economic system that was inherently exploitative. Black people born in America have inherited all of that legacy. Immigrants, though they are indeed often the targets of discrimination, have inherited absolutely none of it. It's not the same.

It's up to the individual black person how they wish to address that. The conventional wisdom among fair-minded, moderate white progressives is that whites have changed, and that the best way to achieve progress is to trust that whites will be less racist going forward. Whites also point out that people like Huey are "polarizing" and "counter-productive." And politically, maybe they're right. I would find it hard to disagree that Martin Luther King was successful in large part because he chose non-violent protest and he operated in the spirit of integration and tolerance towards whites.

But what you don't understand -what you'll never understand - is that it's a burden that black people carry with them - every day. Jackie Robinson had people try to run him over in the base paths and call him the 'n' word during games. And he was told from day one that he couldn't fight back, even if someone pushed him to the edge. Barack Obama had the burden of being not just president, but being a model for black Americans. When Obama said "The officer acted stupidly" and "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin," much of white America lost its mind and called him a 'race-baiter.' Black people have the burden to be gentlemanly in the eyes of whites, even when whites in this society are held to a much lower standard in return. "Oh, I'm not really a racist, I just, I don't know...had a bad day and the word 'n----er' slipped out. I said I was sorry, right?"

So I can understand it if people like Huey say something like:

"Fuck that, I refuse to be burdened by your expectations of me, especially when I know you hold yourself to a lower standard. Whether you realize you do or not is none of my concern. My life experience and knowledge of American history is my guide here, not your words, and certainly not your attempt to saddle me with a guilt trip and lecture about the experiences of other groups of people you whites have marginalized over the years."

I think it's also good for whites to realize that there are Huey's out there, not just Martin Luther Kings, Jackie Robinsons, and Chris Rocks. I don't think the Hueys of the world are going to lead any kind of constructive inter-racial dialogue, but I think it's important to know that people like him exist. If I walk up to random guys on the street and say "Hey, guess what? I banged your mother." Most would probably stop just short of punching me in the face, but eventually, I'd find one who would. It's important to know that people like that exist, that you can't always count on people to be at their best, and how people choose to handle offense is up to the individual.

Whites need to understand that not every black person is interested in being Martin Luther King or Ghandi. Not everyone agrees that turning the other cheek is the best way to deal with racial oppression. It's important for whites to know that a system that is racist inevitably leads to racial tension, and some people are going to respond to that tension with militarism and hatred.
It doesn’t take a dissertation to say hypocrisy is not helpful. Unfortunately, many people are far too stupid or dishonest to help themselves.
  #125  
Old 01-12-2019, 10:47 AM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
He uses autism as a pejorative routinely. I struggle to name how many levels of wrong this is. It's also ignorant as fuck, because he can't be arsed to actually understand the term and everything it entails.
I've noticed this is a trend with Twitter edgelords. They use 'autist' and 'autistic' as synonyms for 'idiot' and 'stupid' because they know it offends people.

This OP seems to be a slightly different strain, in that there's some (wrong) theory around it.

I suspect Huey Freeman is just another emotionally damaged, basement-dwelling edgelord just having a go with us.
  #126  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:08 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Oh Jesus Fucking Christ!

It should be obvious that there is a major difference between someone who actually has the power to abuse and harm people with his racism, and someone who is "racist" because he's fucking pissed to live in a society where even 53 years after the Civil Rights Acts, this country is blithely carrying on in a country that is being governed by a White Supremacist organization. And has the audacity to spout off on a message board.

Major - fucking - difference.

Do I like Huey Freeman's rhetoric? Maybe not.

Would we have much to say if I sat next to him in a bar? Maybe not.

But whether you realize it or not, you're proving him right. And he's right because you all have an idea of what a "productive" social justice warrior should be. That's all well and fine, but considering you're not actually, you know, the one who actually has to experience driving while black, I guess he's telling you he just doesn't give a fuck what you think.

Sorry, but not every black guy whose had the experience of being shit on by white supremacist America is going to protest like a polite gentleman. We can debate which approach is more or less effective, but if someone wants to go Malcolm X, who the fuck are you to complain about it. Again, it's not your fight..."brotha".
Huey's a racist. And you're hysterical.
  #127  
Old 01-12-2019, 12:31 PM
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Riemann Riemann is offline
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...So basically, Shodan is...And here you all are rushing to defend him...
Utter bullshit. You're just making this up to manufacture a false narrative. Nobody rushed to defend Shodans views or values. It was Huey's nasty attack on Shodan's child that people objected to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
...It's as if the resident "progressives" on SDMB have this obsession with liberals who make other liberals look bad. I'm sure that Huey has dealt with this before. I guess Huey is the black guy who makes other black guys look bad, right?...
Again, bullshit. You're projecting. Huey is a toxic racist who makes only himself look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
...There's individual variation among black people as to how they choose to address the fact that they were born into a society that was founded on white supremacy...It's important for whites to know that a system that is racist inevitably leads to racial tension, and some people are going to respond to that tension with militarism and hatred.
As for the rest of what you wrote - of course, black people will choose to react differently to their life experiences. And we agree that we must listen to this. But I don't hear anyone telling Huey that he can't be angry or militant, that he has no right to have hatred in his heart. That's a straw man. It's his racism and other apparent bigotry that people objected to.

You seem to object to white people having anything less than complete acceptance any way a black person chooses to behave. How far are you prepared to take that? If Huey advocated murdering all Jews, would you still be standing wokely shoulder-to-shoulder with him?

I presume not. So then, you're ultimately just as prepared to use your critical faculties to judge Huey's views as anyone else. We're just disputing where the line is. You think toxic bigotry from him is something we should suck up because of his identity, other people don't.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-12-2019 at 12:33 PM.
  #128  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:10 PM
andros andros is offline
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Last edited by andros; 01-12-2019 at 01:11 PM.
  #129  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:47 PM
Razncain Razncain is offline
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Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
Here's an example of Huey-speak where he defends his claim that autism is caused by inbreeding. Oh yeah, also white people are evil. He even gets around to the "one drop" rule, but doesn't seem to realize that he is arguing the same thing. If there's one drop of white blood, well then autism it is!
Umm, how shall we break this to Huey?

Quote:
Exactly How "Black" Are Black Americans?

* According to Ancestry.com, the average African American is 65 percent sub-Saharan African, 29 percent European and 2 percent Native American.

* According to 23andme.com, the average African American is 75 percent sub-Saharan African, 22 percent European and only 0.6 percent Native American.

* According to Family Tree DNA.com, the average African American is 72.95 percent sub-Saharan African, 22.83 percent European and 1.7 percent Native American.

* According to National Geographic's Genographic Project, the average African American is 80 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 1 percent Native American.

* According to AfricanDNA, in which I am a partner with Family Tree DNA, the average African American is 79 percent sub-Saharan African, 19 percent European and 2 percent Native American.
  #130  
Old 01-12-2019, 01:50 PM
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Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Here's what I meant to point out earlier.

I pointed out that Huey's "imported" child comments were in response to Shodan's remarks about black perpetrators. Even if Shodan weren't intending to load racism into his comments - and I concede in retrospect that that's possible - Shodan has a history here. Anyone remember this gem?

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...6&postcount=58
Indeed I do. Yes, Shodan's a douchebag, I agree. His daughter, however, should be off limits. 1.) she doesn't post here, and 2.) she's a goddamned child. And calling foreign adoptees "imported" is absolutely disgusting, not to mention racist as all fucking hell. Huey doesn't get a pass on that because of what blacks have suffered. Nope, sorry. Depending on where Shodan's daughter is from (did he say), her people may have suffered quite a bit too.

Quote:
I don't think he gives a fuck whether you think he makes X people look bad, because he's living his life in spite of your hypocritical and invalid judgment. You're not his Sunday school teacher, and he ain't your boy. So deal with it.
Where did I say he makes anybody look bad, other than himself?


Quote:
No, that's not it. There's individual variation among black people as to how they choose to address the fact that they were born into a society that was founded on white supremacy, and to be specific, white supremacy over black subjects. We still use the same constitution that enshrined an economic system that was inherently exploitative. Black people born in America have inherited all of that legacy. Immigrants, though they are indeed often the targets of discrimination, have inherited absolutely none of it. It's not the same.



It's up to the individual black person how they wish to address that. The conventional wisdom among fair-minded, moderate white progressives is that whites have changed, and that the best way to achieve progress is to trust that whites will be less racist going forward. Whites also point out that people like Huey are "polarizing" and "counter-productive." And politically, maybe they're right. I would find it hard to disagree that Martin Luther King was successful in large part because he chose non-violent protest and he operated in the spirit of integration and tolerance towards whites.
It has nothing to do with being "counter-productive", or "polarizing". It's being a dick. Nobody said he had to be Gandhi, or at least, I didn't.

Quote:
But what you don't understand -what you'll never understand - is that it's a burden that black people carry with them - every day. Jackie Robinson had people try to run him over in the base paths and call him the 'n' word during games. And he was told from day one that he couldn't fight back, even if someone pushed him to the edge. Barack Obama had the burden of being not just president, but being a model for black Americans. When Obama said "The officer acted stupidly" and "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon Martin," much of white America lost its mind and called him a 'race-baiter.' Black people have the burden to be gentlemanly in the eyes of whites, even when whites in this society are held to a much lower standard in return. "Oh, I'm not really a racist, I just, I don't know...had a bad day and the word 'n----er' slipped out. I said I was sorry, right?"
And that fucking sucks. But not everyone goes around saying the n-word, or is automatically a racist, just because they happen to be white either.

Quote:
So I can understand it if people like Huey say something like:

"Fuck that, I refuse to be burdened by your expectations of me, especially when I know you hold yourself to a lower standard. Whether you realize you do or not is none of my concern. My life experience and knowledge of American history is my guide here, not your words, and certainly not your attempt to saddle me with a guilt trip and lecture about the experiences of other groups of people you whites have marginalized over the years."
The only "expectation" I have of him, was not to be a douchbag. Just like everyone else around here. If he's going to use slurs (against other minorities, which he has), then he can't turn around and act like an innocent victim.

Quote:
I think it's also good for whites to realize that there are Huey's out there, not just Martin Luther Kings, Jackie Robinsons, and Chris Rocks. I don't think the Hueys of the world are going to lead any kind of constructive inter-racial dialogue, but I think it's important to know that people like him exist. If I walk up to random guys on the street and say "Hey, guess what? I banged your mother." Most would probably stop just short of punching me in the face, but eventually, I'd find one who would. It's important to know that people like that exist, that you can't always count on people to be at their best, and how people choose to handle offense is up to the individual.
I don't think he has to be Martin Luther King. (He's definitely no Malcolm X, though. THAT idea is a joke)

Quote:
Whites need to understand that not every black person is interested in being Martin Luther King or Ghandi. Not everyone agrees that turning the other cheek is the best way to deal with racial oppression. It's important for whites to know that a system that is racist inevitably leads to racial tension, and some people are going to respond to that tension with militarism and hatred.

It's not a choice between "turn the other cheek" and "go on the attack". Not to mention, not all of the attacks at Huey have been about race. So quit turning it to that. People were pissed that he was mocking their kids or about autism, for example.


YOU, however, want to turn this into a pissing contest into "who had it worse than others".
  #131  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:08 PM
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Huey Freeman Huey Freeman is offline
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Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
You've linked to a bunch of papers that use inbred strains as autism models. In animal model experiments, an "inbred strain" just means a mouse line with a known and consistent genetic background, so that all experimental mice are genetically identical. That's required when you wish to perform rigorous controlled experiments without being confounded by naturally-arising genetic diversity.

So none of those papers show what you think they show. None of those papers suggests (or even remotely implies) that inbreeding per se is causing the autistic symptoms in these mouse models.

Inbreeding may contribute to a high incidence of autism in a human subpopulation if there are specific recessive loci associated with autism with high frequency in that subpopulation. None of those papers addresses that question.
First, I love that you sidestepped part regarding Somalians. This is expected. Here, Somalians practice inbreeding due to religious reasons and have one of the highest rates of autism in the country. The white counterargument is that people of color have less autism diagnoses due to being poor and having less access to healthcare; however, reality shows the reverse is true: Somalians have less access to healthcare and an increased incidence of autism. Second, I agree that inbred strains are used to reduce genetic drift increase the reproducibility of scientific experiments. That isn’t in dispute. The question/observation is why is that so many inbred strains used in autism research? These inbred strains weren't made for autism research yet are serendipitously excellent models for autism research. Lastly, your last paragraph hits it on the head. That’s what I think is happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post

So I can understand it if people like Huey say something like:

"Fuck that, I refuse to be burdened by your expectations of me, especially when I know you hold yourself to a lower standard. Whether you realize you do or not is none of my concern. My life experience and knowledge of American history is my guide here, not your words, and certainly not your attempt to saddle me with a guilt trip and lecture about the experiences of other groups of people you whites have marginalized over the years."

I think it's also good for whites to realize that there are Huey's out there, not just Martin Luther Kings, Jackie Robinsons, and Chris Rocks. I don't think the Hueys of the world are going to lead any kind of constructive inter-racial dialogue, but I think it's important to know that people like him exist. If I walk up to random guys on the street and say "Hey, guess what? I banged your mother." Most would probably stop just short of punching me in the face, but eventually, I'd find one who would. It's important to know that people like that exist, that you can't always count on people to be at their best, and how people choose to handle offense is up to the individual.

Whites need to understand that not every black person is interested in being Martin Luther King or Ghandi. Not everyone agrees that turning the other cheek is the best way to deal with racial oppression. It's important for whites to know that a system that is racist inevitably leads to racial tension, and some people are going to respond to that tension with militarism and hatred.
This sums it up. I would add the following.

Discussion is pointless because we’re operating in different universes. In the white world, racism has a simple, ethnocentric definition “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.” This means that if a person of color were to say “White folks lack empathy and compassion”, it would be racist because it antagonizes white folks. In my world, the definition doesn’t wash. There are a few reasons. The first is that I am not a black supremacist, I don’t think myself superior to white folks, I am your equals. Second, I have no power. Not even a little bit . Power is integral to racism. And, let me be clear, I understand that white folks struggle and/or reject this definition because white folks don’t individually view themselves as having prejudice or power. So, discussion is pointless.

If, for example, I thought the SDMB was racist against people of color, no one take my point-of-view seriously; however, if I were white woman who thought misgonystic comments were getting out of hand, my concerns would be heard. You can see it in politics. Black folks have been marching since 20th century for “Jobs, Justice, and Peace” and decades later white folks still ain’t did shit; in contrast, a ragtag team of educated white women marched for a few weeks and the legislature of West Virginia, Arizona, and Oklahoma all capitulated. If these were black folks who were marching, they’d be ignored at best or, more likely, openly denigrated as shiftless, unappreciative, and lazy. Hell, these black marchers could’ve been conceivably shot by law enforcement for doing the same thing these white women were doing in West Virginia.

The point is that we are operating in different universes, thus making discussion pointless. The best thing I can suggest moving forward for the haters to bring your concerns to the moderator(s). If the moderators decide that they’d prefer me to leave, they can ask politely or ban me, either way I’d stop posting on your message board. Far as I’m concerned, it would be a win-win. It would be a win for the people here because they don’t have to be disabused by my words; it would be a win for me because I would be more productive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
Oh, they got their HOLY LAND back! Well, then it's all okay! Everything's all sunshine and roses for the Jews now!

The reason I don't like Huey has fuck all to do with his anger about racism. He's got plenty of valid complaints there. It's the fact that he's an asshole and uses "but but but RACISM!!!!" as an excuse. Attacking peoples kids is being an asshole. Period. Claiming, "but I'm an oppressed person!" isn't a valid excuse. He doesn't want to be nice? Fine. But then don't expect anyone else to play nice either. Don't call people racial slurs, and then claim it's okay, because you're a minority, so you get a free pass. (His comments about "imported children", whatever it was he called Bricker, comments about kids with autism, etc) THAT is being an asshole.
If someone shoves someone down the stairs, they're being an asshole. I don't care what their race/religion/age/sexual orientation is, they're an asshole. If someone insults a family member of mine, for no reason, they're an asshole.

His claims that we're attacking him because he's black would make about as much sense as me saying you're attacking me because I'm a woman.


Do you have any idea how incredibly patronizing your attitude is? Black people can't HELP being emotional -- they're so oppressed and fed up, they have no other way of acting. It's so insane.

The reason people believe he's a troll, (not a racist), is because a.) he only posts about one subject and one subject only and b.) he posts only in the Pit. Those are usually big signs that someone's a troll, no matter WHAT they're posting about.


There are no winners in the Oppression Olympics.


(I listened to what he had to say. I dropped out a long time ago)

And you're a white liberal who can't take a smidge of criticism. You truly believe your shit doesn't stink. You're the idiot who attempted to dismiss my criticism of the message board with the accusation that I'm some white guy trying to pull a fast one. It was very white of you. You didn't even try to give a counterargument. White folks routinely dismiss the experiences of color with these types of accusations. Accusations that people of color are liars, schemers, criminals and hustlers. And, if you manage just an ounce of self-reflection, realize that you have other white supremacists - right in this thread - who have also accused me of being a white man. Keep in mind, these accusations keep coming in even after I fucking posted a picture of myself. I could tell you I didn't post very much because I attended a convention in Las Vegas this week and you idiots would accuse me of scheming and lying; if I posted a picture of myself with the lanyard, I'd be accused of paying a person of color for the sole purpose of deceiving white folks. So, in reality, it doesn't matter what I say or do. So, I do nothing. Believe what you want to believe. Lastly, I don't post in the other folders for two reasons. The first is that one of the moderators referred to one of my posts as "anti-white". This declaration was followed by a warning regarding behavior that another poster wasn't warned for. I took that coded language as a hint to leave. You see, when a white man says get off his lawn. I get the fuck off his lawn. The second is that rules aren't as much corrective as they are a tool for shaming and embarrassment.
  #132  
Old 01-12-2019, 03:09 PM
Derleth Derleth is offline
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Huey Freeman isn't Black.

Huey Freeman isn't White.

Huey Freeman isn't anything because it's a goddamned fictional character, a role someone is playing on a message board.

All we have of that character are texts someone wrote in-character and whatever other faked-up pseudo-evidence gets created to further that character.

(Heck, ascribing this character to one person is merely a least hypothesis, but I fear this will be lost on most.)

This isn't some kind of radical skepticism. It's baseline "I can tell fiction from fact" skepticism we expect all adults to possess.

And it is... get this... wait for it... wait for it... wait for it... impossible to be racist against a fictional character which doesn't have a race! Huey Freeman is text on a screen! It isn't a movie character, or a TV character, or a stage character, so it cannot have skin, facial features, hair, hair color, or anything else used to demarcate race. It coincidentally shares the name of a (fictional) cartoon character, which is drawn to be Black, but, unless we're in the presence of a Licensed Product, it isn't the same character.

Huey Freeman is a troll. Accusations of racism are invalid.
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  #133  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:07 PM
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octopus octopus is offline
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Originally Posted by Huey Freeman View Post
First, I love that you sidestepped part regarding Somalians. This is expected. Here, Somalians practice inbreeding due to religious reasons and have one of the highest rates of autism in the country. The white counterargument is that people of color have less autism diagnoses due to being poor and having less access to healthcare; however, reality shows the reverse is true: Somalians have less access to healthcare and an increased incidence of autism. Second, I agree that inbred strains are used to reduce genetic drift increase the reproducibility of scientific experiments. That isn’t in dispute. The question/observation is why is that so many inbred strains used in autism research? These inbred strains weren't made for autism research yet are serendipitously excellent models for autism research. Lastly, your last paragraph hits it on the head. That’s what I think is happening.


This sums it up. I would add the following.

Discussion is pointless because we’re operating in different universes. In the white world, racism has a simple, ethnocentric definition “prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.” This means that if a person of color were to say “White folks lack empathy and compassion”, it would be racist because it antagonizes white folks. In my world, the definition doesn’t wash. There are a few reasons. The first is that I am not a black supremacist, I don’t think myself superior to white folks, I am your equals. Second, I have no power. Not even a little bit . Power is integral to racism. And, let me be clear, I understand that white folks struggle and/or reject this definition because white folks don’t individually view themselves as having prejudice or power. So, discussion is pointless.

If, for example, I thought the SDMB was racist against people of color, no one take my point-of-view seriously; however, if I were white woman who thought misgonystic comments were getting out of hand, my concerns would be heard. You can see it in politics. Black folks have been marching since 20th century for “Jobs, Justice, and Peace” and decades later white folks still ain’t did shit; in contrast, a ragtag team of educated white women marched for a few weeks and the legislature of West Virginia, Arizona, and Oklahoma all capitulated. If these were black folks who were marching, they’d be ignored at best or, more likely, openly denigrated as shiftless, unappreciative, and lazy. Hell, these black marchers could’ve been conceivably shot by law enforcement for doing the same thing these white women were doing in West Virginia.

The point is that we are operating in different universes, thus making discussion pointless. The best thing I can suggest moving forward for the haters to bring your concerns to the moderator(s). If the moderators decide that they’d prefer me to leave, they can ask politely or ban me, either way I’d stop posting on your message board. Far as I’m concerned, it would be a win-win. It would be a win for the people here because they don’t have to be disabused by my words; it would be a win for me because I would be more productive.





And you're a white liberal who can't take a smidge of criticism. You truly believe your shit doesn't stink. You're the idiot who attempted to dismiss my criticism of the message board with the accusation that I'm some white guy trying to pull a fast one. It was very white of you. You didn't even try to give a counterargument. White folks routinely dismiss the experiences of color with these types of accusations. Accusations that people of color are liars, schemers, criminals and hustlers. And, if you manage just an ounce of self-reflection, realize that you have other white supremacists - right in this thread - who have also accused me of being a white man. Keep in mind, these accusations keep coming in even after I fucking posted a picture of myself. I could tell you I didn't post very much because I attended a convention in Las Vegas this week and you idiots would accuse me of scheming and lying; if I posted a picture of myself with the lanyard, I'd be accused of paying a person of color for the sole purpose of deceiving white folks. So, in reality, it doesn't matter what I say or do. So, I do nothing. Believe what you want to believe. Lastly, I don't post in the other folders for two reasons. The first is that one of the moderators referred to one of my posts as "anti-white". This declaration was followed by a warning regarding behavior that another poster wasn't warned for. I took that coded language as a hint to leave. You see, when a white man says get off his lawn. I get the fuck off his lawn. The second is that rules aren't as much corrective as they are a tool for shaming and embarrassment.
Well, octopus believes you're sincere. I even think you believe that nonsensical definition of racism you posted. Now answer this, if you honestly believe wypipo are so racist and devoid of empathy how is it that wars of extermination are not being waged today?

Last edited by octopus; 01-12-2019 at 06:07 PM.
  #134  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:28 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Here, Somalians practice inbreeding due to religious reasons and have one of the highest rates of autism in the country.
What is perhaps the most comprehensive study of Somali immigrants and autism (in the Minneapolis area) found very similar rates of autism prevalence in both the Somali and white community (prevalence among Somalis was significantly higher than in non-Somali black children).

There's a problem with making guesses (i.e. "inbreeding") that don't have evidentiary backing. Here's a thoughtful article which discusses theories about why autism seems to cluster in some immigrant communities. Notably absent are remarks about "inbreeding" - instead, explanations getting serious interest include vitamin D deficiency and stresses associated with migration.

There's also potential difficulty with inadequate surveys (the Minneapolis one has been questioned over small size; prevalence might actually be lower, or even higher among Somalis). As to claims that autism is rare to nonexistent in the homelands of immigrants such as those from Somalia, I found this passage provocative:

When the autism diagnosis came, Gboro knew what it meant in his community. Some Congolese people, even those who have been in the U.S. for years, refer to autism as a ‘curse.’ Some are even more fatalistic. “They say, ‘It’s just a disease that God gives you and you cannot do anything about it,’” Gboro says. Social ostracism often follows, isolating families with a child on the spectrum. As a result, he says, many Congolese children on the spectrum are never screened or diagnosed and miss out on early intervention—the only thing known to help."

You wonder how often autism exists in parents' native lands, where they are too embarrassed or fearful of ostracism to seek help - if effective diagnosis and intervention even exist.

Last edited by Jackmannii; 01-12-2019 at 06:29 PM.
  #135  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:29 PM
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Riemann Riemann is offline
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....I agree that inbred strains are used to reduce genetic drift increase the reproducibility of scientific experiments. That isn’t in dispute. The question/observation is why is that so many inbred strains used in autism research? These inbred strains weren't made for autism research yet are serendipitously excellent models for autism research....
Inbred strains are used for autism research because inbred strains are used for almost all research. The fact that these experiments are conducted with inbred mice is a technical issue, and simply does not have the significance that you think it does. The purpose of inbreeding mouse lines is to produce isogenic mice - where all mice are exactly the same. That's usually what you want for controlled experiments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbred_strain

Look at the papers you linked to more carefully, and you will see that the control mice that do not exhibit autistic traits in these experiments are also inbred strains. From your first link:

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0003067

Quote:
We previously reported on an inbred strain of mice, BTBR T+tf/J (BTBR), that displays several traits relevant to autism, including reduced social approach in adults, reduced reciprocal social interactions in juveniles and adults, decreased social transmission of food preference, and high repetitive self grooming when compared to C57BL/6J (B6), a standard inbred strain commonly used in behavioral genetics
The BTBR mice described here have an autistic phenotype because of their specific genotype, not because they are inbred.

Last edited by Riemann; 01-12-2019 at 06:32 PM.
  #136  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:36 PM
Covfefe Covfefe is offline
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First, I love that you sidestepped part regarding Somalians. This is expected. Here, Somalians practice inbreeding due to religious reasons and have one of the highest rates of autism in the country. The white counterargument is that people of color have less autism diagnoses due to being poor and having less access to healthcare; however, reality shows the reverse is true: Somalians have less access to healthcare and an increased incidence of autism.
You just aren't aware of the complexity of researching autism and how much work has been done on that front in the last two decades without yielding much in the way of tangible answers. This line of argument is marginally more impressive than Donald Trump, you notice a few things and then spout off like he did with autism and vaccines.

There are plenty of Somalians who breed with outside populations. You haven't begun to delve into those statistics and variables like that and other environmental possibilities that could affect the health of a fetus. Also: Jackmanii's post.

I've imagined this to be trolling because this is a handful of times you've brought up the Somalians without giving any commentary, just the same points. It serves no purpose other than serving as a cover to bookend your inbreeding theory. I think you might be black because I found the thread where you posted a picture of you holding up a piece of writing. You display no concern for your black brothers and sisters, the Somalians who vaccinate their children at lower rates due to unfounded fears they have of them and because of the stigma that could come with an autistic child. https://i0.wp.com/midnimo.com/wp-con...pg?w=660&ssl=1 Some of their traditional ways are an obstacle for dealing with the stigma. Hopefully professionals are equipped to work together with families to increase education while you exponentially turn your back on and stigmatize the brothers and sisters of yours you can't begin to understand. Shodan attacks people who do commit harmful acts using language some find insensitive and overboard. You attack people your most vulnerable brother and sisters.

Here is why you are allowed to post here.
  #137  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:41 PM
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Riemann Riemann is offline
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That's brilliant. I must have missed that when Bone posted it. It's a tad harsh for dear Huey, but still deserves quoting in full:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Unfortunately for the rest of us, this is obvious. You are a cancer on this board, making everything around you sick with your disgusting vileness.

It's only by the grace of principles that you are tolerated. You're like the Westboro Baptist Church. Decent people know the Westboro Baptist Church is a hateful terrible awful organization and would prefer they just go away. However, as long as they are around, the folks like the ACLU's will support the Westboro Baptist Church's free speech right out of principle.

That's why you're here, you small, petty, little person. You are the ornament we can use to demonstrate our commitment to our principles. But you don't have to be. You can fuck right off anytime you wish. Because you're a fucking cancer.
  #138  
Old 01-12-2019, 06:57 PM
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Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
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Originally Posted by Riemann View Post
...The BTBR mice described here have an autistic phenotype because of their specific genotype, not because they are inbred.
I would guess that the information you posted here will be rejected, because "specific genotype" is much less effective as an insult than "inbred."

It's possible that the person posting the "Huey Freeman" account is an American black man, having all the traits and life-experiences claimed, and sincerely holding the opinions expressed.

But it's worth noting that the "Huey Freeman" account consistently contains themes and messages that are prioritized by online work-groups paid (ultimately) by the Kremlin. Among the most important missions of these groups, such as the Internet Research Agency headquartered in St. Petersburg, is to foment dissension and division among various parts of the political left.

One of the most effective ways to plant barriers between whites and people of color is to tell white people that they cannot get this right. Familiar themes include:
  • white people CANNOT understand people of color---no matter what efforts they make to do so
  • white people may believe they aren't racist but they, by definition, are racist
  • white people CANNOT rectify wrongs perpetrated in the past
  • white people are all alike (invariably in some uncomplimentary way, such as 'being
    without empathy')
  • white people may believe they have acted in ways that will be helpful to black people, such as voting black people into political office--but that action is, somehow, harmful to people of color
  • white people are simply incapable of being anything other than unfair and unjust

...and so on.

This works to divide left-leaning white people and people of color by implanting in white people the suspicion that people of color have fixed prejudices about them and nothing will change their minds---and implanting in people of color the exact same view of white people. Thus, groups of the left are less likely to work together effectively, and individuals who might otherwise make useful contributions toward leftist goals, will be too dispirited, angry or otherwise preoccupied to do so.

A recent new initiative expands the Kremlin online presence:

Quote:
... A website called usareally.com appeared on the internet May 17 and called on Americans to rally in front of the White House June 14 to celebrate President Donald Trump’s birthday, which is also Flag Day.
FireEye, a Milpitas, Calif., cybersecurity company, said Thursday that USA Really is a Russian-operated website that carries content designed to foment racial division, harden feelings over immigration, gun control and police brutality, and undermine social cohesion.

The website’s operators once worked out of the same office building in St. Petersburg, Russia, where the Kremlin-linked Internet Research Agency had its headquarters, said Lee Foster, manager of information operations analysis for FireEye iSIGHT Intelligence.

... Russians involved in the website work for the Federal News Agency, which is known by its Russian acronym FAN and closely follows the Kremlin line on international issues. Ownership of the agency is not publicly known.
The new website may be part of a pending broader campaign, Foster said. ...
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nat...212299529.html

Postings such as those by "Huey Freeman" (and "Asahi," for that matter), whether written by persons who are actually Americans holding the views expressed, or by paid workers who are writing to order, are extremely helpful in promoting division and discord on the left.
  #139  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:18 PM
excavating (for a mind) excavating (for a mind) is offline
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Originally Posted by Derleth View Post
Huey Freeman isn't Black.

Huey Freeman isn't White.

Huey Freeman isn't anything because it's a goddamned fictional character, a role someone is playing on a message board.

All we have of that character are texts someone wrote in-character and whatever other faked-up pseudo-evidence gets created to further that character.

(Heck, ascribing this character to one person is merely a least hypothesis, but I fear this will be lost on most.)

This isn't some kind of radical skepticism. It's baseline "I can tell fiction from fact" skepticism we expect all adults to possess.

And it is... get this... wait for it... wait for it... wait for it... impossible to be racist against a fictional character which doesn't have a race! Huey Freeman is text on a screen! It isn't a movie character, or a TV character, or a stage character, so it cannot have skin, facial features, hair, hair color, or anything else used to demarcate race. It coincidentally shares the name of a (fictional) cartoon character, which is drawn to be Black, but, unless we're in the presence of a Licensed Product, it isn't the same character.

Huey Freeman is a troll. Accusations of racism are invalid.
This. It is easy to get confused because most of the other posters on this board are humans; many behind a nom de plume, but individuals regardless. Derleth is a real person, although Derleth may or may not be his real name.

Huey Freeman, on the other hand, is not a real person. He is a character. He does not espouse his personal beliefs (or anyone else's, for that matter), but those of a fictional character who has developed into a troll. The character doesn't care about equality, a level playing field, or even fairness in human interaction. The character only cares about making his point that the entire world is against his aspirations and, it's not his fault, but the fault of everyone else.

That's my problem with Huey Freeman's persona. While he tries to expose injustice in human relationships, failings in his own persona are ignored, and when you try to point them out, you are labeled a racist.
  #140  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:21 PM
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Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Originally Posted by Huey Freeman View Post
And you're a white liberal who can't take a smidge of criticism. You truly believe your shit doesn't stink. You're the idiot who attempted to dismiss my criticism of the message board with the accusation that I'm some white guy trying to pull a fast one. It was very white of you. You didn't even try to give a counterargument. White folks routinely dismiss the experiences of color with these types of accusations. Accusations that people of color are liars, schemers, criminals and hustlers. And, if you manage just an ounce of self-reflection, realize that you have other white supremacists - right in this thread - who have also accused me of being a white man. Keep in mind, these accusations keep coming in even after I fucking posted a picture of myself. I could tell you I didn't post very much because I attended a convention in Las Vegas this week and you idiots would accuse me of scheming and lying; if I posted a picture of myself with the lanyard, I'd be accused of paying a person of color for the sole purpose of deceiving white folks. So, in reality, it doesn't matter what I say or do. So, I do nothing. Believe what you want to believe. Lastly, I don't post in the other folders for two reasons. The first is that one of the moderators referred to one of my posts as "anti-white". This declaration was followed by a warning regarding behavior that another poster wasn't warned for. I took that coded language as a hint to leave. You see, when a white man says get off his lawn. I get the fuck off his lawn. The second is that rules aren't as much corrective as they are a tool for shaming and embarrassment.
NONE of which excuses your attacks on peoples' children. None whatsoever. THAT is on you, and "but white people!!!" isn't an excuse. You claim you're equal to white people? Well, then you don't try and claim people are being racist when they get pissed about that. I'm sure you'd get equally angry if someone went after your family.


And I'm going to say this once and for all:

The reason I accused you of being a white conservative troll has fuck all to do with race. It has to do with the facts that you happen to share several common traits with past trolls:
1.) Posting about one subject, and one subject only. (And usually incredibly passionate)
2.) Only posting in one forum (usually the Pit or Great Debates)
3.) Automatically accusing anyone who disagrees of being an enemy.

We've had numerous people who've done that over the years. And half the time, they weren't who and/or what they said they were. The subject didn't matter (race, politics, religion, conspiracy theories, etc). Hell, it doesn't just happen here, it happens all over the fucking internet. You can't tell me you've never heard of people doing this kind of shit. You know the phrase, "on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog?"
So you showed your picture and you're actually black. Okay, I was wrong there. Other people may have missed that post, considering what a long thread it is. Fucking chill.

I never claimed that "my shit doesn't stink". Your "criticisms" of said message board IIRC, were basically that it was just a bunch of white surpremacists, who were clueless about race relations. (I believe one comment was about white people offering their opinions on O.J. Simpson, or some bullshit like that?)


You came here, seeing exactly what you wanted to see. As you just said -- "I posted X in another forum, was warned, and saw that obviously they didn't want me there because I was black!" Well, I'd have to see said warning, but I have a feeling that, once again, it's simply projection. If only because I've been here a lot longer than you have.

And as I stated, it's only about one subject -- you don't seem to care about sports, movies, pets, etc. That's another red light that you're a troll. Again, past experience. Blame the other people who've come before.

THAT is why people are dismissing you. You jumped in, feet first, and immediately started accusing people, guilty until proven innocent, and as I said before, the perfect Kafka trap: "aha -- only those who were guilty would deny it!"

I don't dismiss black people of being liars, thieves, criminals, etc.* That's bullshit. YOU'RE the one making accusations about white people in general.


FINALLY, a good many of the people who disagree with you? They aren't white. Many of them are also minorities, who've suffered from bigotry. (I mentioned two Jewish posters, one of whom is the son of a Holocaust survivor) You know what they say about people who assume?


*Well, depending on what sports team you root for. As anyone who posts here can tell you, I'm pretty hard core there. Now I have a hockey game to watch.

Last edited by Guinastasia; 01-12-2019 at 09:24 PM.
  #141  
Old 01-12-2019, 09:26 PM
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Huey Freeman Huey Freeman is offline
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
I would guess that the information you posted here will be rejected, because "specific genotype" is much less effective as an insult than "inbred."

It's possible that the person posting the "Huey Freeman" account is an American black man, having all the traits and life-experiences claimed, and sincerely holding the opinions expressed.

But it's worth noting that the "Huey Freeman" account consistently contains themes and messages that are prioritized by online work-groups paid (ultimately) by the Kremlin. Among the most important missions of these groups, such as the Internet Research Agency headquartered in St. Petersburg, is to foment dissension and division among various parts of the political left.

One of the most effective ways to plant barriers between whites and people of color is to tell white people that they cannot get this right. Familiar themes include:
  • white people CANNOT understand people of color---no matter what efforts they make to do so
  • white people may believe they aren't racist but they, by definition, are racist
  • white people CANNOT rectify wrongs perpetrated in the past
  • white people are all alike (invariably in some uncomplimentary way, such as 'being
    without empathy')
  • white people may believe they have acted in ways that will be helpful to black people, such as voting black people into political office--but that action is, somehow, harmful to people of color
  • white people are simply incapable of being anything other than unfair and unjust

...and so on.

This works to divide left-leaning white people and people of color by implanting in white people the suspicion that people of color have fixed prejudices about them and nothing will change their minds---and implanting in people of color the exact same view of white people. Thus, groups of the left are less likely to work together effectively, and individuals who might otherwise make useful contributions toward leftist goals, will be too dispirited, angry or otherwise preoccupied to do so.

A recent new initiative expands the Kremlin online presence:

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nat...212299529.html

Postings such as those by "Huey Freeman" (and "Asahi," for that matter), whether written by persons who are actually Americans holding the views expressed, or by paid workers who are writing to order, are extremely helpful in promoting division and discord on the left.

It goes to show you how both ridiculous and deep white supremacy goes. When a person of color speaks, he or she is assumed to be a liar and a schemer. I've been accused of being a white man, an old man, a young man, an undergraduate. Literally everything except the identity I ascribed myself. Now, I'm being accused of crowdsharing my account with other people and being an agent of a hostile government attempting to foment dissent in the United States? Really? Is that where we're going? What's next? Let me let it be clear. If you (or anyone else) believe I am an agent of the Russian Federation or any other government, you should immediately inform the FBI. It is also your patriotic duty to immediately inform the moderators of your belief as well as contacting the owner of this message board and inform him or her of your suspicion that their message board could be (maybe is now?) being infiltrated by a hostile government.

Last edited by Huey Freeman; 01-12-2019 at 09:31 PM.
  #142  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:02 PM
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asahi asahi is offline
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Postings such as those by "Huey Freeman" (and "Asahi," for that matter), whether written by persons who are actually Americans holding the views expressed, or by paid workers who are writing to order, are extremely helpful in promoting division and discord on the left.
You really are fucking thick. I think what you should do is stop posting. Read all the posts on this thread, take some deep breaths, and think about them in their proper context. Your thinking is really fuzzy. Just fuzzy, fuzzy thinking on your part.

Last edited by asahi; 01-12-2019 at 11:03 PM.
  #143  
Old 01-12-2019, 11:28 PM
Discordian Discordian is offline
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Originally Posted by Derleth View Post
Huey Freeman isn't anything because it's a goddamned fictional character
"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players"

Huey argues a certain viewpoint, more or less a legitimate viewpoint. Does he seem extreme at times? Certainly, but as I pointed out, he would be ignored otherwise.

Try to understand the real message. Try to understand that someone who has been fucked over repeatedly might engage in certain levels of sarcasm and insult, and that there are differing cultural standards for when and how that's appropriate.

Maybe, just maybe, you don't understand. And neither do I, but I'm trying at least.

Ignoring the real-world hardships of other people by dismissing them as trolls is simply pathetic.

Why would someone go to that much trouble, over the course of months and years, unless there is something that they're genuinely aggrieved about?
  #144  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:01 AM
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Guinastasia Guinastasia is offline
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Here's another thing for Huey to stop and think about. A lot of our posters here are black (and non-white). Yet I don't know of any who has drawn the kind of reaction he has -- even posters who are more than willing to engage in controversial discussions of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. Nor is anyone all "nicey-nice" about it, either.

So perhaps it might not be about black vs white, after all. Maybe there's something else there.

Last edited by Guinastasia; 01-13-2019 at 12:02 AM.
  #145  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:51 AM
Derleth Derleth is offline
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Originally Posted by Discordian View Post
"All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players"
Derleth isn't a character in the same way Huey Freeman is because I, the unseen author, haven't put enough personal details into what I post here. For example, it is central to the Huey Freeman character that the character is Black, in the American racial sense of the term. That's something added to the bare text of the posts which are the only things we can actually see. I don't rely on anything similar when I make my posts; my ethos, to the extent I rely on ethos in my rhetoric, is my post history itself.

Quote:
Huey argues a certain viewpoint, more or less a legitimate viewpoint. Does he seem extreme at times? Certainly, but as I pointed out, he would be ignored otherwise.
Good attention and bad attention, Discordian, and I'll note that monstro is Black and she isn't the subject of threads similar to this one.

Quote:
Try to understand the real message. Try to understand that someone who has been fucked over repeatedly might engage in certain levels of sarcasm and insult, and that there are differing cultural standards for when and how that's appropriate.

Maybe, just maybe, you don't understand. And neither do I, but I'm trying at least.

Ignoring the real-world hardships of other people by dismissing them as trolls is simply pathetic.
Try to understand that I'm not going to blur the lines between lonelygirl15 The Huey Freeman Show and reality.

Quote:
Why would someone go to that much trouble, over the course of months and years, unless there is something that they're genuinely aggrieved about?
Because some people find it amusing.

Oh, and others have gone to much more trouble in the past. What the poster or posters operating Huey Freeman have done so far isn't even remotely strenuous.
  #146  
Old 01-13-2019, 11:34 AM
Isosleepy Isosleepy is offline
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I strongly doubt Asahi or Huey are Russian, their syntax and word-choice are too American. They are native or very long-time English speakers at least. If they are part of a Kremlin strategy to sow discord, it isn’t working. They managed to unite all but 4 or 5 of the board in rejecting Huey’s particular strain of assholery. I know I’ve found myself agreeing multiple times in these threads with people I don’t ever otherwise agree with. If Huey (and Asahi, for that matter) are in fact employed so, I hope this doesn’t screw with their continued employment. I think, however, they are just people with trollish tendencies. Short of them going full blown troll, though, that is no reason to ban them. The above quoted statement by Bone perfectly, yes perfectly, argues why.
  #147  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:15 PM
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Riemann Riemann is offline
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Originally Posted by Isosleepy View Post
...They managed to unite all but 4 or 5 of the board in rejecting Huey’s particular strain of assholery. I know I’ve found myself agreeing multiple times in these threads with people I don’t ever otherwise agree with...
Although I think that's probably because the SDMB skews older, so most people on here are traditional rights-based liberals. More generally there are many in the modern Left who would not agree, and who would align with the Huey Freeman Show. You can see the roots of the conflict between traditional liberalism and identity politics described at the Wiki page on Critical Race Theory:

Quote:
CRT recognizes that racism is engrained in the fabric and system of the American society. The individual racist need not exist to note that institutional racism is pervasive in the dominant culture. This is the analytical lens that CRT uses in examining existing power structures. CRT identifies that these power structures are based on white privilege and white supremacy, which perpetuates the marginalization of people of color.
Quote:
CRT scholars favor a more aggressive approach to social transformation as opposed to liberalism's more cautious approach, favor a race-conscious approach to transformation rather than liberalism's embrace of color blindness, and favor an approach that relies more on political organizing, in contrast to liberalism's reliance on rights-based remedies.
So far so good. But then:

Quote:
Revisionist interpretations of American civil rights law and progress—criticizing civil rights scholarship and anti-discrimination law. An example is Brown v. Board of Education. Derrick Bell, one of CRT's founders, argued that civil rights advances for blacks coincided with the self-interest of white elitists.
Some quotes from the critiques section:

Quote:
What is most arresting about critical race theory is that...it turns its back on the Western tradition of rational inquiry, forswearing analysis for narrative. Rather than marshal logical arguments and empirical data, critical race theorists tell stories — fictional, science-fictional, quasi-fictional, autobiographical, anecdotal—designed to expose the pervasive and debilitating racism of America today. By repudiating reasoned argumentation, the storytellers reinforce stereotypes about the intellectual capacities of nonwhites.
Quote:
Critical race theorists attack the very foundations of the [classical] liberal legal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism and neutral principles of constitutional law. These liberal values, they allege, have no enduring basis in principle, but are mere social constructs calculated to legitimate white supremacy. The rule of law, according to critical race theorists, is a false promise of principled government, and they have lost patience with false promises.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

Last edited by Riemann; 01-13-2019 at 12:19 PM.
  #148  
Old 01-13-2019, 12:16 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
So perhaps it might not be about black vs white, after all. Maybe there's something else there.
If you take Huey at face value (and not a troll), his schtick might just be an updated, Internet version of what Tom Wolfe called "mau-mauing the flak catchers".

In that lesser-known companion piece to "Radical Chic", Wolfe describes a group of young men (various ethnic groups including black and Samoan) who go down to a government poverty agency office to confront the Man about the impending loss of funding for a jobs program. It quickly degenerates into a verbal assault on the loser of a bureaucrat* who meets with them but has no power whatsoever to grant their demands. Despite the futility of this tactic, the group gets satisfaction of a sort.

"When black people first started using the confrontation tactic, they made a secret discovery. There was an extra dividend to this tactic. There was a creamy dessert. It wasn't just that you registered your protest and showed the white man that you meant business and weakened his resolve to keep up the walls of oppression. It wasn't just that you got poverty money and influence. There was something sweet that happened right there on the spot. You made the white man quake. You brought fear into his face...
So for the black man mau-mauing was a beautiful trip. It not only stood to bring you certain practical gains like money and power. It also energized your batteries. It recharged your masculinity. You no longer had to play it cool and go in for pseudo-ignorant malingering and put your head into that Ofay Pig Latin catacomb code style of protest. Mau-mauing brought you respect in its cash forms: namely, fear and envy."


The problem is that Dope posters (who have no use for racist bullshit whatever its source) have been rejecting their assigned role of Oppressors and tossing the flak right back at ol' Huey, which if he's for real, must be highly frustrating for him.

*worst of all, this bureaucrat dresses badly (the greatest of all sins in the Tom Wolfe ethos), wearing a button-down shirt, cheap slacks and Hush Puppies.
  #149  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
If you take Huey at face value (and not a troll), his schtick might just be an updated, Internet version of what Tom Wolfe called "mau-mauing the flak catchers".

In that lesser-known companion piece to "Radical Chic", Wolfe describes a group of young men (various ethnic groups including black and Samoan) who go down to a government poverty agency office to confront the Man about the impending loss of funding for a jobs program. It quickly degenerates into a verbal assault on the loser of a bureaucrat* who meets with them but has no power whatsoever to grant their demands. Despite the futility of this tactic, the group gets satisfaction of a sort.

"When black people first started using the confrontation tactic, they made a secret discovery. There was an extra dividend to this tactic. There was a creamy dessert. It wasn't just that you registered your protest and showed the white man that you meant business and weakened his resolve to keep up the walls of oppression. It wasn't just that you got poverty money and influence. There was something sweet that happened right there on the spot. You made the white man quake. You brought fear into his face...
So for the black man mau-mauing was a beautiful trip. It not only stood to bring you certain practical gains like money and power. It also energized your batteries. It recharged your masculinity. You no longer had to play it cool and go in for pseudo-ignorant malingering and put your head into that Ofay Pig Latin catacomb code style of protest. Mau-mauing brought you respect in its cash forms: namely, fear and envy."


The problem is that Dope posters (who have no use for racist bullshit whatever its source) have been rejecting their assigned role of Oppressors and tossing the flak right back at ol' Huey, which if he's for real, must be highly frustrating for him.

*worst of all, this bureaucrat dresses badly (the greatest of all sins in the Tom Wolfe ethos), wearing a button-down shirt, cheap slacks and Hush Puppies.
That’s fascinating. However, in my mind a hostile, unproductive, and belligerent beggar is still a beggar.
  #150  
Old 01-13-2019, 05:20 PM
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Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
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Originally Posted by Isosleepy View Post
... If Huey (and Asahi, for that matter) are in fact employed so, I hope this doesn’t screw with their continued employment. I think, however, they are just people with trollish tendencies....
Yes, as I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
...It's possible that the person posting the "Huey Freeman" account is an American black man, having all the traits and life-experiences claimed, and sincerely holding the opinions expressed.

...Postings such as those by "Huey Freeman" (and "Asahi," for that matter), whether written by persons who are actually Americans holding the views expressed, or by paid workers who are writing to order, are extremely helpful in promoting division and discord on the left.
Promoting discord and division is something some people are paid to do, and other people do for free, because it makes them feel powerful. It's a rather sad sort of 'power,' of course. But I suppose it's better than nothing.

The responses are fairly typical, and adhere to the evergreen principle insults are a hell of a lot easier to write than coherent arguments:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Huey Freeman View Post
It goes to show you how both ridiculous and deep white supremacy goes. When a person of color speaks, he or she is assumed to be a liar and a schemer. I've been accused of being a white man, an old man, a young man, an undergraduate. Literally everything except the identity I ascribed myself. Now, I'm being accused of crowdsharing my account with other people and being an agent of a hostile government attempting to foment dissent in the United States? Really? Is that where we're going? What's next? Let me let it be clear. If you (or anyone else) believe I am an agent of the Russian Federation or any other government, you should immediately inform the FBI. It is also your patriotic duty to immediately inform the moderators of your belief as well as contacting the owner of this message board and inform him or her of your suspicion that their message board could be (maybe is now?) being infiltrated by a hostile government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
You really are fucking thick. I think what you should do is stop posting. Read all the posts on this thread, take some deep breaths, and think about them in their proper context. Your thinking is really fuzzy. Just fuzzy, fuzzy thinking on your part.
Disappointing. Neither response actually references any of the points made in the post to which they reply. Of course that would have entailed some actual work---like reading the post, for starters.

The responses seem canned---pre-constructed screeds that, perhaps, those writing on these accounts pull out whenever someone says something they perceive as being criticism.

Anyway, for me the bottom line with these posters is that their message is nihilism.

Actual radicals or progressives can easily come up with long lists of problems with the status quo---and they may be, to varying degrees, pessimistic about change happening. But they don't say change is impossible.

Both these accounts consistently do say that change is impossible: HF that white people are all racists who are focused on efforts to oppress people of color and determined that people of color can never succeed; A that democracy is doomed because everyone but A is too stupid to see that democracy is doomed, etc.




(Both messages, as previously noted, are heavily pushed by Putin's Kremlin; that these accounts push the messages too may be related or unrelated to that fact. Authoritarians always push messages intended to foment division, discord, and contempt for democracy; these writers may or may not be interested in the fortunes of Mr. P, but by coincidence or not, their message coincides with his.)

These writers have every right to express nihilist views. But it's a fact that arguing with nihilists is rarely productive; you know in advance that they are going to reject each and every point anyone might make.

Meh.
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