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Old 08-20-2019, 04:19 PM
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Classical music haters: Why?


Question for people who absolutely can't stand classical music: Why?
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:36 PM
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If I may... I love classical music, and not just the "lite" stuff but difficult works that take years to fully appreciate. I also love tough-to-parse, challenging things in general. Like coastal navigation and sailing. And advanced university degrees.

I've noticed a certain kind of hate directed at such things...like hate directed at sailors, by powerboaters, or classical music lovers, by classical music haters, and even Tesla drivers, by coal-rolling pickups.

Perhaps we might call this "defensive" hate? As in, such haters hate because they think we're "better" than them for having more "refined" tastes? Then this makes them mad?

I'd suggest, let your likes be a positive thing, rather than a reason to feel bad because your likes aren't the same as someone else's. Don't get mad at others for liking things you don't. That's just silly. It takes all types to make a world, after all.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:02 PM
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Ok, the most important thing first: I'm a rock'n'roll guy through and through and have been all my conscious life. That includes a broad range of styles, from punk to prog, from soul to country, from from electronic music to folk, you name it. Music in this broad spectrum is what I almost exclusively listen to, but I have deep respect for classical music and Jazz, but I'm afraid to step into these musical universes because I already can't handle everything I want to listen to in the pop/rock genre. I appreciate that most classical and Jazz is deep and sophisticated, and I even listen sometimes (but too rarely) to classical symphonies and classic Jazz albums. But there's one thing I can't stand, though I also appreciate that it's good music in a way, and that's opera. I just cannot stand the opera style of singing, it just grates on me, similarly like Bon Scott's or Ozzy Osbourne's voice will grate on many opera fans. But I acknowledge that those singers can sing, but it's JUST NOT MY STYLE.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:16 PM
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Ok, the most important thing first: I'm a rock'n'roll guy through and through and have been all my conscious life. That includes a broad range of styles, from punk to prog, from soul to country, from from electronic music to folk, you name it. Music in this broad spectrum is what I almost exclusively listen to, but I have deep respect for classical music and Jazz, but I'm afraid to step into these musical universes because I already can't handle everything I want to listen to in the pop/rock genre. I appreciate that most classical and Jazz is deep and sophisticated, and I even listen sometimes (but too rarely) to classical symphonies and classic Jazz albums. But there's one thing I can't stand, though I also appreciate that it's good music in a way, and that's opera. I just cannot stand the opera style of singing, it just grates on me, similarly like Bon Scott's or Ozzy Osbourne's voice will grate on many opera fans. But I acknowledge that those singers can sing, but it's JUST NOT MY STYLE.
EinsteinsHund put it very well. And to repeat what others said, I find classical music to be tedious, plodding, and boring. I like jangling guitars and a good drum beat, and music that gets my toes tapping and my head nodding. There's none of that in classical music. The closest thing to classical that I appreciate is Roll Over, Beethoven by the Electric Light Orchestra.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:45 PM
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EinsteinsHund put it very well. And to repeat what others said, I find classical music to be tedious, plodding, and boring. I like jangling guitars and a good drum beat, and music that gets my toes tapping and my head nodding. There's none of that in classical music. The closest thing to classical that I appreciate is Roll Over, Beethoven by the Electric Light Orchestra.
Yeah, that too! Classical music mostly has no beat, and I almost exclusively react to music I can (theoretically ) dance to. Or move my feet. Play air guitar or air drums.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:13 AM
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Classical music mostly has no beat
Erm.....

Beethoven was constantly playing with syncopation (5th symphony first and last movements), and any number of classical composers used the dance rhythms of their day in different pieces. The first names coming to my mind are Brahms and Dvorak, but Spanish dance rhythms had quite a vogue too

And try Stravinsky's Rite of Spring.

But if you mean, it isn't bound by the limitations of a fixed tempo for a roughly three-minute piece, then you're not wrong. But that's a feature, not a bug. It"s the whole point.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:39 AM
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I like jangling guitars and a good drum beat, and music that gets my toes tapping and my head nodding. There's none of that in classical music.
Well, of course there's none of that in classical music. If that's what classical music is, then we would just call it rock music.

Humor me: put on the 4th movement of Beethoven's 7th symphony, and crank it up pretty loud. It immediately starts with a highly "toe-tappable" beat. Toe-tap along with the music, but don't try to intellectualize it or "approach" it with any particular mindset. Just let the music wash over you. And here is the key: it may not do it for you at first. Me, over the years I've bought numerous albums in different genres that just didn't do it for me at first. Being that I spent hard-earned dollars though, I felt obligated to give them second and third chances, and often they grew on me to the extent that I fell in love with them. If you aren't familiar with classical music (a term so broad as to be a bit useless, quite frankly) you very well may not like it. But you like music, don't you?

I say this to all of you who "hate" classical music, especially if you've never really given it a chance. And while I'm on Beethoven's 7th, might I also say that it is a very good introduction to what classical music is all about. You can listen to it in 45 minutes. From the optimistic opening movement, through the dour and melancholy second, and on through the lively and energetic third and fourth movements, it runs the gamut of all human emotions, requires no knowledge of musical theory, and despite others here pointing out the importance of development and the like, which I agree can be quite interesting, you don't need to consider this at first. Don't set yourself up for something that you may not get at first, and when you don't, think you've "missed it" in some way.

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Old 08-21-2019, 11:43 AM
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...despite others here pointing out the importance of development and the like, which I agree can be quite interesting, you don't need to consider this at first. Don't set yourself up for something that you may not get at first, and when you don't, think you've "missed it" in some way.
... which is indeed what I did .

The enjoyment you get from Classical music is at least two-fold.

First, there's immediate, purely sensual pleasure of experiencing beautiful music. That's the most important and the place where everyone can start.

Then, comes wonder when you discover all the little surprises, references and Easter eggs that a composer has hidden in a work for us. It's what keeps centuries-old pieces fresh and fascinating after dozens of listenings. Add the multiple ways in which you can interpret the same work and a lifetime isn't enough to discover all that it has to offer. But you definitely don't need this to enjoy Classical music.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:57 PM
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EinsteinsHund put it very well. And to repeat what others said, I find classical music to be tedious, plodding, and boring. I like jangling guitars and a good drum beat, and music that gets my toes tapping and my head nodding. There's none of that in classical music. The closest thing to classical that I appreciate is Roll Over, Beethoven by the Electric Light Orchestra.
I find this revealing. I've heard many a person dislike classical for the reason of it not being "steady in rhythm"/ "not toetap inducing".

I'm the opposite: I dislike many pop songs because of the incessant unchanging rhythm. It's almost like being hypnotized driving on a straight desert highway.

There's also a lot of hate for prog music and I suspect it's rooted in the same reasoning of the person I've quoted; the rhythms change too much or change constantly.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:57 AM
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I appreciate that most classical and Jazz is deep and sophisticated, and I even listen sometimes (but too rarely) to classical symphonies and classic Jazz albums. But there's one thing I can't stand, though I also appreciate that it's good music in a way, and that's opera. I just cannot stand the opera style of singing, it just grates on me, similarly like Bon Scott's or Ozzy Osbourne's voice will grate on many opera fans. But I acknowledge that those singers can sing, but it's JUST NOT MY STYLE.
My first thought when I opened this thread is very similar. I actually like some classical music, but only the instrumental pieces and performances. Like you, I HATE opera singing. While I have some appreciation of the vocal talent, I can't stand to listen to it, and 10 seconds is more than enough. I can't imagine actually going to see an opera. Uggh.

I don't like most jazz, either. It just sounds like musicians noodling around, with little obvious melody or rhythm. Dixieland jazz, which I like, is the exception, and I don't even know if that is considered "real" jazz.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:07 AM
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My first thought when I opened this thread is very similar. I actually like some classical music, but only the instrumental pieces and performances. Like you, I HATE opera singing. While I have some appreciation of the vocal talent, I can't stand to listen to it, and 10 seconds is more than enough. I can't imagine actually going to see an opera. Uggh.

I don't like most jazz, either. It just sounds like musicians noodling around, with little obvious melody or rhythm. Dixieland jazz, which I like, is the exception, and I don't even know if that is considered "real" jazz.
Exactly what I feel, said better than I could have. I find it amusing that some people here seem to feel a need to persuade folk that they SHOULD enjoy classical music!

Like I said, my favorite is probably primitive old-timey banjo and fiddle music. Or rockabilly w/ a slapped bass and screaming guitar. But if YOU don't like it, that's fine with me.

Actually, I just realized. One thing I REALLY like abut old-time, folk, and bluegrass music is that it is very personal. "back porch" music. Really gives me the feel of regular people making music for their own enjoyment. Which is quite removed from the tux-and-tails environment of much classical music.

Boy, it would be tough for me to decide, if I HAD to go to EITHER an opera, OR a baseball game! Personal taste is fun, ain't it?
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:16 AM
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I find it amusing that some people here seem to feel a need to persuade folk that they SHOULD enjoy classical music!
Despite my earlier posts, which might not make this clear, I agree wholeheartedly with this. Musical tastes differ. I only hope to convince people who have never given classical music an real chance, as opposed to just writing it off as "elevator music", to do so.

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Like I said, my favorite is probably primitive old-timey banjo and fiddle music.
How about a great fiddle and banjo tune played in a setting usually associated with classical music, Carnegie Hall. Flatt and Scruggs "Fiddle and Banjo". Great stuff.

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Old 08-24-2019, 02:14 AM
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Overall, I like classical music, but my preferences are really narrow. I've had a seasonal subscription with the Detroit Symphony for 20+ years, but I am getting tired of it. I'm tired of concertos with soloists at every concert; I want to hear more of just the whole orchestra. And I hate the increasing emphasis on modern symphonic music; so much of it is atonal noise.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:27 AM
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If I may... I love classical music, and not just the "lite" stuff but difficult works that take years to fully appreciate.
I challenge the assertion that there is such a thing as "lite" or "difficult" music.

That in itself comes across as somewhat condescending. The implication being that those who don't share you appreciation of the latter are lacking the mental capability or application to realise that the latter is more worthy.

If that actually is the way you view people's musical tastes (I hope it isn't) then you shouldn't be surprised by the responses you get.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:49 AM
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I challenge the assertion that there is such a thing as "lite" or "difficult" music.
This is silly. If you have ever taken a course in musical appreciation, then you know that there are enormous ranges of complexity for melody, harmony, rhythm, and structure. Some composers deliberately put easter eggs or other opaque features in their pieces to reward those in the know (Bach and all his math fugue bullshit).

Complexity doesn't automatically make a piece better, but it's uncontroversial to say that some pieces are more complex and require more time, effort, and sophistication to appreciate.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:20 AM
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This is silly. If you have ever taken a course in musical appreciation.................
You just lost me. I don't need any musical education to know whether a piece moves me or not. The amount that a piece has moved me has never been dependent on how much I know about it. Same with painting, poetry, film or pretty much any art.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:55 AM
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You just lost me. I don't need any musical education to know whether a piece moves me or not. The amount that a piece has moved me has never been dependent on how much I know about it. Same with painting, poetry, film or pretty much any art.
Then it means that what you really enjoy is talking to yourself. Your first, visceral reaction to an artwork is everything. That's fine, just not the way I work.

I happen to appreciate some pieces even more when I am told or shown something new about them, something that I'd never have thought of be myself. It's more like a dialogue, really or at least an interaction.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:09 AM
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You just lost me. I don't need any musical education to know whether a piece moves me or not. The amount that a piece has moved me has never been dependent on how much I know about it. Same with painting, poetry, film or pretty much any art.
If emotional response is all that matters to you, that's your business. There's nothing wrong with that. But it's comically ignorant to suggest that just because you don't engage with more sophisticated aspects of music, that they don't exist at all.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:12 AM
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You just lost me. I don't need any musical education to know whether a piece moves me or not. The amount that a piece has moved me has never been dependent on how much I know about it. Same with painting, poetry, film or pretty much any art.
If this is really true, it means that you're equally moved by a simple four-line ditty or a dirty limerick as by a longer, more complex poem. It means you're equally moved by a poem written in a language that you don't understand as one written in English.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:25 AM
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You just lost me. I don't need any musical education to know whether a piece moves me or not. The amount that a piece has moved me has never been dependent on how much I know about it. Same with painting, poetry, film or pretty much any art.
You must really be missing a lot then.

With all great music, art, literature, poetry, movies, dance, etc. the more we understand the work in detail, the more we enjoy it, and the more we are moved by it.

An initial gut feeling, especially based on ignorance of the genre, may be completely misleading. We may be missing the point, or unfamiliar with the style. Knowing something about the context and the artist also adds to the enjoyment of the work.

With music, we have to learn to hear by careful attention and by knowing what to listen for. This is a physical thing - the brain gradually develops the ability to hear more refined and subtle detail. The brain gains familiarity with that style and begins to process it better. It doesn't happen instantaneously, it's an acquired taste, and a taste worth acquiring.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:32 AM
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I challenge the assertion that there is such a thing as "lite" or "difficult" music.

That in itself comes across as somewhat condescending. The implication being that those who don't share you appreciation of the latter are lacking the mental capability or application to realise that the latter is more worthy.

If that actually is the way you view people's musical tastes (I hope it isn't) then you shouldn't be surprised by the responses you get.

Clearly there is a difference in say, Pachelbel's Canon in D and a take-your-pick Schoenberg atonal piece, given that the term "atonal" and all it suggests is the defining characteristic of much of his music. And I suppose it may come across as condescending, but why such an accusatory post, before even giving Limmin a chance to explain what was meant? I see nothing in that post suggesting you need to be Einstein to appreciate certain works.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:04 PM
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Clearly there is a difference in say, Pachelbel's Canon in D and a take-your-pick Schoenberg atonal piece, given that the term "atonal" and all it suggests is the defining characteristic of much of his music. And I suppose it may come across as condescending, but why such an accusatory post, before even giving Limmin a chance to explain what was meant? I see nothing in that post suggesting you need to be Einstein to appreciate certain works.
I agree, it was an accusatory post because I did get a very poor impression from the first sentence they used i.e.

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not just the "lite" stuff but difficult works that take years to fully appreciate. I also love tough-to-parse, challenging things in general. Like coastal navigation and sailing. And advanced university degrees.
Sounds condescending to me. The term "lite" certainly seems to be used in a dismissive way and I can't think of any reason for mentioning "advanced university degrees" other then to make sure we know how they clever they are, it seems bordering on the snobby to me.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:14 PM
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I agree, it was an accusatory post because I did get a very poor impression from the first sentence they used i.e.

Sounds condescending to me. The term "lite" certainly seems to be used in a dismissive way and I can't think of any reason for mentioning "advanced university degrees" other then to make sure we know how they clever they are, it seems bordering on the snobby to me.
I'll just say that the term "lite" classical music has been very common for years, decades even, and that it does typically refer to pieces that are more accessible, if that's the right word. And as I said in my previous post, Schoenberg is by no means accessible the first time you hear him. So I don't think Limmin was necessarily being condescending. That's all.

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Old 08-20-2019, 05:05 PM
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As someone who played classical piano music for many years, much classical music is just dreadfully boring. It's a great deal of work for very little benefit, for the performers, and tedious for the audience.

I don't like rock, rap, hip-hop or most modern stuff either, but (most) classical is just a chore.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:12 PM
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As someone who played classical piano music for many years, much classical music is just dreadfully boring. It's a great deal of work for very little benefit, for the performers, and tedious for the audience.

I don't like rock, rap, hip-hop or most modern stuff either, but (most) classical is just a chore.
Is there any kind of music you do like?

I can understand why someone who didn't like/appreciate music at all (e.g. because they're tone deaf) wouldn't like classical music.

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Old 08-20-2019, 05:24 PM
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Is there any kind of music you do like?

I can understand why someone who didn't like/appreciate music at all (e.g. because they're tone deaf) wouldn't like classical music.
I generally like soundtracks (the more peaceful or innovative ones, not the loud bangy drums ones) and some jazz. Some computer-game soundtracks are great as well. But classical music often feels like the aural equivalent of opening up a 400-page volume of War and Peace, and rock and roll is just too loud.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:37 PM
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Is there any kind of music you do like?

I can understand why someone who didn't like/appreciate music at all (e.g. because they're tone deaf) wouldn't like classical music.
I'm tone deaf, and I love classical music though I realize there are nuances I don't get.
I like rock just fine, but I dare anyone to listen to the first movement of the Eroica or the fourth movement of Beethoven's Fifth Symphony or the first and third movements of the Fifth Piano Concerto and find them boring.

Before I started listening I was biased against classical movement, perhaps from listening to Roll Over Beethoven. But Beethoven was far more revolutionary than Chuck Berry - and some pieces are hilarious.

I'm not fond of opera, but that is from my deficiencies, not because opera is bad.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:27 PM
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As someone who played classical piano music for many years, much classical music is just dreadfully boring. It's a great deal of work for very little benefit, for the performers, and tedious for the audience.

I don't like rock, rap, hip-hop or most modern stuff either, but (most) classical is just a chore.
I agree with Velocity, much of old classical music is rather boring. The thing is, artists are still writing classical music that is more than very good. For a starter try Anthony Phillips' Seventh Heaven....classical, piano, medieval and 12 string guitar.
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:25 PM
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I agree with Velocity, much of old classical music is rather boring. The thing is, artists are still writing classical music that is more than very good. For a starter try Anthony Phillips' Seventh Heaven....classical, piano, medieval and 12 string guitar.
Yes, most people don't realize that "classical" or "serious" music is still being written and performed... a lot. And like anything else, it evolves into new territories.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:50 PM
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Classical music, like any other genre, is all over the map. I have a few CD's of various composers and some I like and others make me cringe.

I prefer something along the lines of Mozart because the music tends to be separated out so I can mentally track it. There can be a whole room full of musicians playing but structurally they are grouped so I can pick out specific melodies and beats.

I don't like music that ends up in some kind of individual competition for attention.

However, I HATE opera. Upper register opera even more. it all sounds like a cat kicking contest to me.
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Old 08-21-2019, 02:00 AM
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I agree with Velocity, much of old classical music is rather boring. The thing is, artists are still writing classical music that is more than very good. For a starter try Anthony Phillips' Seventh Heaven....classical, piano, medieval and 12 string guitar.
I've been listening to that on U Tube. It's a beautiful album. Thank you for recommending it.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:22 PM
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Question for people who absolutely can't stand classical music: Why?
Why do some people like vanilla and some people like chocolate?

I mean, I do have a preference for songs with words and strong beats, but it ultimately comes down to "Classical music just doesn't do it for me".
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:43 AM
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Why do some people like vanilla and some people like chocolate?

I mean, I do have a preference for songs with words and strong beats, but it ultimately comes down to "Classical music just doesn't do it for me".
Actually, no. Preferences are not this simple. People’s preferences are influenced by their environment—what were you exposed to and by whom and in what circumstances, what were the preferences of the people around you, what were the messages you were given by individuals and by mass media regarding the value and meaning of certain choices? People are taught to and learn to like and dislike certain things.
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:53 PM
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The people I know who hate “classical” music do so because they think people who like it are snobs. It’s a defense, like hating the well-educated if you haven’t attended college.

Kind of a shame, because they’re missing out on one of the pinnacles of Western culture. And it’s not all that hard to get into. Remember Moonstruck, with the baker character played by Nicolas Cage, who adored the opera?
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Old 08-20-2019, 09:57 PM
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Magiver: Plenty of boobs received an entree to opera (and classical music in general) by watching Amadeus.

Die Zauberflote is a simple fairy tale elevated by transcendent music. Just YouTube the two arias from the Queen of the Night. Or the overture, if you can’t take lyric sopranos.
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Old 08-20-2019, 10:24 PM
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Magiver: Plenty of boobs received an entree to opera (and classical music in general) by watching Amadeus.
and plenty of people who listen to a broad range of music thinks it SUCKS. It's flat out irritating to listen to.

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The people I know who hate “classical” music do so because they think people who like it are snobs.
well I think people who call other people boobs because they don't share the same musical taste would qualify as snobs. Maybe someone can write an opera about it so you could appreciate the irony.
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Old 08-21-2019, 02:54 PM
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well I think people who call other people boobs because they don't share the same musical taste would qualify as snobs. Maybe someone can write an opera about it so you could appreciate the irony.
I hear ya talkin,’ boob.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:06 AM
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No lyrics, no consistent melody, too many goddamned violins.
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Old 08-21-2019, 05:53 AM
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EinsteinsHund put it very well. And to repeat what others said,I find classical music to be tedious, plodding, and boring. I like jangling guitars and a good drum beat, and music that gets my toes tapping and my head nodding. There's none of that in classical music. The closest thing to classical that I appreciate is Roll Over, Beethoven by the Electric Light Orchestra.
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No lyrics, no consistent melody, too many goddamned violins.
(My bolding in cochrane's post.) My insights here may not be worth much: I'm next-door to tone-deaf, and lack physical co-ordination: the great majority of music, and dancing in any way or shape done by myself, are "closed books" to me. I get the impression though, that for very many preferrers of, shall we say, livelier musical stuff: classical music is plain boring, and very lacking in enjoyable and memorable tunes.

There are suggestions that the above, has held held good for many centuries. In Patrick O'Brian's novels, it's an ongoing thing that Aubrey and Maturin enjoy playing together, classical-type violin / cello duets. I recall in one of the books, that the two of them are going hard at it thus; "off-stage", Aubrey's devoted but surly servant, Killick, comments to the effect of: "tweedly-deedly, tweedly-deedly, all the damn time for hours on end -- it's enough to drive you mad".
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:37 AM
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There are suggestions that the above, has held held good for many centuries. In Patrick O'Brian's novels, it's an ongoing thing that Aubrey and Maturin enjoy playing together, classical-type violin / cello duets. I recall in one of the books, that the two of them are going hard at it thus; "off-stage", Aubrey's devoted but surly servant, Killick, comments to the effect of: "tweedly-deedly, tweedly-deedly, all the damn time for hours on end -- it's enough to drive you mad".
Don't confuse modern historical novels with actual history, or imagine that fiction authors don't make things up, no matter how much research they claim to have done. Don't mistake the opinions of one fictional character in a novel for a general historical truth.

There was certainly plenty of folk music in the 18th-19th centuries, and ballads were especially popular... but most people of all levels of society were also exposed to complex choral and organ church music from childhood.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:48 AM
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I think a lot of musical preference comes down to what we were exposed to in childhood.

The more we listen to any type of music, the more we understand and appreciate it. There's no doubt that classical music is more complex, so it probably needs more exposure and more knowledge of how it's put together.

Over time I find myself listening to more and more complex classical music. I'm thoroughly enjoying music now that I thought was slow and boring only a few years ago.

Last edited by GreenWyvern; 08-21-2019 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:58 AM
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Don't confuse modern historical novels with actual history, or imagine that fiction authors don't make things up, no matter how much research they claim to have done. Don't mistake the opinions of one fictional character in a novel for a general historical truth.

There was certainly plenty of folk music in the 18th-19th centuries, and ballads were especially popular... but most people of all levels of society were also exposed to complex choral and organ church music from childhood.
As I indicated in my post: people have described me in the past, as "musically dead" -- anything I have to say, touching on music, is likely to have about as much value as the opinions of a fish on the niceties of high-level flight .
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Old 08-21-2019, 09:07 AM
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When I was in grade school (Bach was two classes ahead of me) the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra did a regular radio series that was beamed into all the schools. That was high-level music appreciation, interspersed with pieces of classical music. The first album I ever bought was Grofé's Grand Canyon Suite.

That's also when I learned that classical music albums were very much like early rock albums. Early rock had one hit single surrounded by whatever sludge could be recorded in a day, bulk for the sake of justifying a higher price.

The Grand Canyon Suite was typical of what the RPO played us. It had one gloriously melodic section surrounded by tweedly-deedly. Whenever I heard the full album of the classical snippets fed to us I heard one hit single surrounded by sludge.

I know rock has a beat, but - more importantly, I think - it has a melody. You could hum to it. You had to: it stuck in your head forever. That's a big reason why classic rockers don't appreciate much of modern music; beat is emphasized over melody. Rock developed out of the tradition of of folk music, and folk musics, at least western ones, almost always centered on a hummable melody.

I'm sure classical lovers will now rise up to insist that those dull classical stretches have plenty of melody, along with all the other virtues claimed for them. No doubt. I just don't hear them, any more than I hear the virtues in a thousand rock albums that I can't stand but are worshipped by others.

The major difference is that rock has a mechanism for just playing the hit singles, while classical forces you to listen to the whole album. Metaphorically. On radio or in concert you don't get just the one good part, although you can do it at home. A good mix tape of classical probably would attract a lot of new fans. And alienate a lot of old ones.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:22 AM
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I can't find the source, but I saw an article which says that opera vocals sound the way they do because audience needs to hear it. It's a genre that never adopted to the invention of microphone.

I'm a rock a guy with an eclectic taste. I dislike operas and operettas. I don't mind occasional classical piece - and I don't mind the absence of the beat; I'm occasionally listening to electronic ambient music - but I dislike slow movements, predictable textures, too drastic jumps in dynamics, too few and far between rewards of majestic melody buried in between slow, washing, nearly dissonant harmonies.

Same for jazz. I don't mind melodic noodlings, but I do mind chords. Anything more complex than major/minor 7ths/9ths sound either dissonant or cheesy.

With that in mind, this is probably the most beautiful piece of classical music.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:49 PM
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...no consistent melody...
This is the key reason that fails for me for most classical pieces. Too many damn movements and journeys and meanderings, not enough hook. There are exceptions, like Ravel's Bolero or Bach's Bouree that are joys to listen to because they are built around nice tight hooks.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:59 PM
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This is the key reason that fails for me for most classical pieces. Too many damn movements and journeys and meanderings, not enough hook. There are exceptions, like Ravel's Bolero or Bach's Bouree that are joys to listen to because they are built around nice tight hooks.
Certainly that is the key thing for a lot of listeners. But then, that's why Handel, Vivaldi, Telemann, Bach, Scarlatti, Chopin, Purcell, and numerous others were invented. Plenty of classical music to go around for everyone! You know, if one is so inclined....
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:50 AM
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I can take it or leave it mostly. It's not something I go out of my way to listen to but I don't hate it.

There are a few pieces that I really like. I love Pachelbel's Cannon.

https://youtu.be/RWWfhzsvetg
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:05 AM
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I can take it or leave it mostly. It's not something I go out of my way to listen to but I don't hate it.

There are a few pieces that I really like. I love Pachelbel's Cannon.

https://youtu.be/RWWfhzsvetg
That should be "Canon" not "Cannon". My editing window ran out.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:25 AM
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Classical music is mostly not designed to be accessible enough where you can just pop it on the record player for a few minutes and say "ooh, that sounds nice". If nothing else, there's the time demand.

I mean, some of it is accessible like that, but much it requires some historical and evolutionary context, some musical familiarity or ability, access to good recordings/listening equipment if not live performance. And time. Plenty of time to listen to a long piece, more than once, to take it all in.

I don't hate it by a longshot, but I will say it demands more of the listener than most people find reasonable.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:38 PM
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That should be "Canon" not "Cannon". My editing window ran out.
It's a lot more entertaining with the cannon, as with the heavy ordnance towards the end of the 1812 Overture.

I spent a lot of years playing "classical" piano, then got into rock. I still listen to a lot of both. Never have liked vocal/choral music and find most everything written in the last century unlistenable.

Tastes vary. I'm not offended if others hate music I like.

Except for works by Gershwin, the all-time greatest American composer.
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