Straight Dope Message Board

[Lance Turbo]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

Let alone make some bonkers claim about precognitive right-wing trolls enrolling in 3-year Somali language courses.

As far as I can tell, no one has made this claim. The only one bringing this up is you. 251

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Lance Turbo

As far as I can tell, no one has made this claim. The only one bringing this up is you.

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

The alternative is that a few right-wing bloggers were able to falsify a fairly prodigious quantity of screenshots, learning Somali along the way, at a much higher level than their graphic abilities would seem to indicate.

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

If you're looking at a picture of text written in Somali and telling me that the image was faked, I don't give a rat's ass whether that image is proof of X, Y, or Z, there's a predicate issue that I'm talking to someone who thinks that a right wing idiot spent three years learning fucking Somali so that he could fake a conspiracy against a specific Congressperson.

No, they did not spend 3 years learning fucking Somali. Or, if you believe that they did, you need to show me some better evidence than simply telling me that "Omar is innocent ergo that's fake."

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

I haven't said the images are faked!
Let alone make some bonkers claim about precognitive right-wing trolls enrolling in 3-year Somali language courses.
I'm just curious why YOU think they're so pertinent to the accusation that Ilham Omar married her brother.

IOW, the only person making this claim is Sage Rat's strawman. 252

[Lance Turbo]

My apologies Not Carlson. I meant to post that the only one making any claims about anyone learning the Somali language was Sage Rat. I accidentally quoted your post when I meant to quote one of his. 253

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

Thank you, Kimtsu.
You have articulated my feelings much better than I could have.

Nevertheless, for my part, I am curious why Sage Rat thinks those social media posts and images are such a big deal. (Or if he doesn't, why he's spent so much time insisting that we give them especial consideration.)

Because denialism annoys me. As said, it doesn't matter if all they prove is that Omar has nasty feet - which doesn't even have anything to do with the topic - if the people that I'm talking to are telling me that the images are falsified and refuse to look at them.

I'm not going to explain this again. If you read the words that I write to mean, "I think that Omar is guilty of malfeasance" when I'm writing "Stop being mentally lazy" because you're inferring that I'm calling you lazy because you don't agree with me, then stop inferring. That's another level of you trying to convince yourself to be lazy. There is no subtext. I don't care whether Omar is guilty or innocent, has wonderful feet or nasty feet.

Trust that what I write exactly what I mean with no deeper nor malicious nor argumentative angle pro nor con of Ilhan Omar. We could be arguing about whether cheese is a good natural deodorizer and if you're refusing to investigate and refusing to consider even really crappy evidence, using bizarre and outlandish reasoning, I'm going to be just as much telling you that you need to see a neurologist.

The "bizarre and outlandish" is the issue, not the deodorizing qualities of cheese. Cheese just isn't something that excites me one way or the other. Widespread mental illness, on the other hand, is something that concerns me and worries me. 254

[Skywatcher]

What I'm seeing is the same thing I saw with 9/11 Twoofers: the piling up of a bunch of relatively innocuous grains of sand, pointing to the pile, and asking "What about all of this?"

Without solid evidence, it's a all just a pile of sand. 255

[Cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

We could be arguing about whether cheese is a good natural deodorizer and if you're refusing to investigate and refusing to consider even really crappy evidence, using bizarre and outlandish reasoning, I'm going to be just as much telling you that you need to see a neurologist.

The "bizarre and outlandish" is the issue, not the deodorizing qualities of cheese.

This is where your problem lies.

The deodorizing qualities of cheese is the claim. It's a shit claim. It has no credence, and no basis in reality. The fact that you have "crappy evidence" to support it does not generate a responsibility on my part to investigate your crappy evidence.

I am only required to consider your claim if you have "good evidence" to support it. Good evidence suggests there is something worthwhile to investigate, crappy evidence suggests nothing.

The only thing bizarre and outlandish is the expectation that people are going to take an anonymous claim about a public figure, provide no reliable evidence that it is correct, and demand that everyone else do the work to disprove it.

And, I'll repeat, we saw this whole thing play out before, with all the same assholes making claims, and no amount of evidence made a difference, because it was never about the claim, it was always about having a scandal to talk about. 256

[DrFidelius]

I certainly hope that this has been has been brought to the attention of the appropriate authorities, as this administration is notably lax and lenient on regards to immigration issues. 257

[Monty]

For someone who is so annoyed by denialism, he sure is into that very thing, isn't he? 258

[Monty]

Originally Posted by Cheesesteak

And, I'll repeat, we saw this whole thing play out before, with all the same assholes making claims, and no amount of evidence made a difference, because it was never about the claim, it was always about having a scandal to talk about.

It was always about having a scandal against a successful Black public figure to talk about. 259

[SlackerInc]

I am late to this thread, so can someone point me to the post that links to these photos and lays out the basic argument? 260

[SlackerInc]

Originally Posted by Monty

It was always about having a scandal against a successful Black public figure to talk about.

I think people are sometimes a little quick to jump to this specific conclusion. I am not fond of the “squad”, but I am very fond of black legislators like Jim Clyburn and William Lacy Clay. 261

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Lance Turbo

My apologies Not Carlson. I meant to post that the only one making any claims about anyone learning the Somali language was Sage Rat. I accidentally quoted your post when I meant to quote one of his.

It's cool. 262

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by SlackerInc

I am late to this thread, so can someone point me to the post that links to these photos and lays out the basic argument?

That would be nice.
(Though I suspect the content wouldn't be.) 263

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Because denialism annoys me. As said, it doesn't matter if all they prove is that Omar has nasty feet - which doesn't even have anything to do with the topic - if the people that I'm talking to are telling me that the images are falsified and refuse to look at them.

I'm not going to explain this again. If you read the words that I write to mean, "I think that Omar is guilty of malfeasance" when I'm writing "Stop being mentally lazy" because you're inferring that I'm calling you lazy because you don't agree with me, then stop inferring. ...

For God's sake, man! Stop inferring that I'm inferring that you're calling me lazy because I don't agree with you!
And let's not get sidetracked with feet and cheese and coastal lighthouses and other stuff that, to quote you, "doesn't even have anything to do with the topic."

The OP claimed "it really does seem like Omar married her brother to get him American citizenship, among other things."

In Post #6, Iiandiii responds "As far as I can tell, there's still no actual evidence (aside from a maybe-exists, maybe-it-doesn't supposed social media post about nieces/nephews that may or may not have been made by the person in question) that she married her brother. "

In Post #26, you respond to iiandyiii by presenting a not entirely implausible, but completely conjectural scenario in which Omar may have married her brother for his convenience. This is your first contribution to the thread.

#27 Andy retorts "Very interesting guesses. Perhaps you should write a short story? " To which you respond thus:

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

The alternative is that a few right-wing bloggers were able to falsify a fairly prodigious quantity of screenshots, learning Somali along the way, at a much higher level than their graphic abilities would seem to indicate. And then, for whatever reason, Omar decided that she didn't like the prospect of the free money that she could get by suing their assess.

You suggested that the only two explanations are either A) The accusations are true and Omar married her brother, or B) That right-wing bloggers studied Somali and faked a whole bunch of social media screenshots.

In this thread, it's only YOU who has presented this false dichotomy.

You keep telling people to "prove that the social media posts are faked. "
But has anyone on this thread even said that they are obviously faked? Did I miss that?

My question to YOU is, ASSUMING the posts and pics are real, not faked, what does that mean?
Does it mean Omar must have married her brother?
According to you, either she married her brother, or the screenshots were faked, right? (post #29)
If there are any particular such screenshots/pics that you consider to be evidence worthy of consideration, please provide us with links.

Several pages into the thread you admitted that there is currently no evidence to support the accusation that Omar married her brother, yet you still leave this vague suggestion that we're in denial of ... something.
Like you're saying "Well... I've just been asking questions. Ain't no harm in asking questions. Maybe y'all should be asking more questions."

Well, I have been asking questions. Why can't you give me a straight answer? 264

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

My question to YOU is, ASSUMING the posts and pics are real, not faked, what does that mean?

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...6&postcount=75
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...7&postcount=77 (picture referenced has since been deleted by Elmi)
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...2&postcount=79
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=105

It means that the accusation has credence but that there is a wide scope for everything from guilt to complete innocence, which I have said several times recently, so I fail to see what's unclear beyond an attempt to avoid moving to the next step, where the next step would be to do some work.

Do the work and then feel free to ask me anything. 265

[Cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Do the work and then feel free to ask me anything.

This "work" is a useless waste of time, so you should do it, and let us all know how it works out for you when you're done. 266

[Kimstu]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

It means that the accusation has credence but that there is a wide scope for everything from guilt to complete innocence

A "wide scope for everything from guilt to complete innocence" makes the concept of an accusation having "credence" a good deal less meaningful.

Heck, by that reasoning there's just as much "credence" for the accusation that I personally assassinated Jeffrey Epstein. You don't know that I didn't, so I might be guilty; on the other hand, you don't know that I did, so I might be completely innocent. Why don't you do some work on that and see if you can "reduce the spectrum of hypotheticals"?

That would be just as sensible as your contention that other people should "do the work" on attempting to discredit a mishmash of unsubstantiated speculation about Ilhan Omar that even the originators and promoters of those speculations can't manage to come up with factual evidence for. 267

[foolsguinea]

I've been away from this thread and just skimmed this page.

Did I read right that Wm Lacy Clay pretended to be Ilhan's brother to assassinate Epstein?

This is just the break Cori Bush is looking for!

Is it against the rules to hijack this thread to tell you to support Cori? She's a Justice Dem, like Ilhan, & it will annoy SlackerInc. 268

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...6&postcount=75
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...7&postcount=77 (picture referenced has since been deleted by Elmi)
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...2&postcount=79
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...&postcount=105

It means that the accusation has credence but that there is a wide scope for everything from guilt to complete innocence, which I have said several times recently, so I fail to see what's unclear beyond an attempt to avoid moving to the next step, where the next step would be to do some work.

Do the work and then feel free to ask me anything.

Thank you for providing the links. And I owe you an apology.
What you’ve linked to, while not strong evidence that Omar married her brother, is certainly not nothing.

I could wish that the information didn’t come from sources with titles that presuppose the truth of the accusation and clearly have a massive axe to grind,
but I guess sometimes the ax-grinders are the only ones willing to dig into a story.

I’ll wait to see how this plays out, remaining skeptical of the accusation, but open to the possibility that shenanigans have gone on.

Originally Posted by Kimstu

Heck, by that reasoning there's just as much "credence" for the accusation that I personally assassinated Jeffrey Epstein.

Dammit, Kimtsu! Stop giving me more work! 269

[foolsguinea]

Wow, that's a lot of work for a story that doesn't pass the initial bullshit test.

If Ilhan's father has US citizenship, Ilhan didn't need to marry her half-brother on her father's side to get him in. And the whole thing relies on saying that the brother/fake-husband was using his real name, while the father was using a fake name.

Some of us have seen this kind of trick before. It's recognizably a pile of carefully presented lies. 270

[Monty]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

Thank you for providing the links. And I owe you an apology.
What you’ve linked to, while not strong evidence that Omar married her brother, is certainly not nothing.

The only thing it is other than nothing is bullshit.

I’ll wait to see how this plays out, remaining skeptical of the accusation, but open to the possibility that shenanigans have gone on.

Why and what shenanigans (here, that reads: married her brother) do you have actual evidence for?

Originally Posted by foolsguinea

Wow, that's a lot of work for a story that doesn't pass the initial bullshit test.

If Ilhan's father has US citizenship, Ilhan didn't need to marry her half-brother on her father's side to get him in. And the whole thing relies on saying that the brother/fake-husband was using his real name, while the father was using a fake name.

Some of us have seen this kind of trick before. It's recognizably a pile of carefully presented lies.

Yeppers. 271

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Monty

Why and what shenanigans (here, that reads: married her brother) do you have actual evidence for?

I don't. That's why I'm choosing to remain highly skeptical of the accusation. 272

[DrFidelius]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

I don't. That's why I'm choosing to remain highly skeptical of the accusation.

"Highly skeptical" does not equal "recognize bullshit." 273

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by foolsguinea

Wow, that's a lot of work for a story that doesn't pass the initial bullshit test.

If Ilhan's father has US citizenship, Ilhan didn't need to marry her half-brother on her father's side to get him in. And the whole thing relies on saying that the brother/fake-husband was using his real name, while the father was using a fake name.

Some of us have seen this kind of trick before. It's recognizably a pile of carefully presented lies.

The evidence is that they're hiding something, that Elmi (likely) calls Omar's daughters his nieces, and that Omar lived with both of her husbands at the same time. Pigeonholing the "something" to "brother marriage" isn't a disproof, it's just pigeonholing.

Let's say for example that Omar's husband, Hirsi, is bisexual and polyamorous. He meets a handsome, British Somali lad online and tells Omar that he's debating to leave her and go to England. They talk it out and decide that she's okay with him having a boyfriend.

The most practical way for them to all be together, they decide, is for Omar to marry Elmi.

They bring Elmi into the US as Omar's husband and all start to live together. They call Elmi an 'Uncle' to their children and he calls them his nieces.

Pretty quickly, the family determines that this was all a bad idea and Elmi leaves to go live on his own. Eventually, he returns to England after he's done studying at University. Omar and him are still friendly, it's more the Hirsi/Elmi relationship that's off.

The social media links between Omar and Elmi, with him calling her kids "niece" and her dad (for whatever reason) going by a similar name to Elmi kicks off a brother/sister theory among the Somali community, which eventually leads to Omar being investigated and her tax history being discovered.

As a politician, she decides that the whole bisexual + polyamorous husband thing is a bridge too far for her to maintain her political base, regardless of whether they generally vote Democratic. As such, she scrubs all social media connection between herself and Elmi and denies having any relationship with him anymore.

Through this, she'll have generated some false testimony to USCIS during her marriage to Elmi and then further perjured herself during the divorce proceedings but, ultimately, this was all just a load of nonsense brought on by the father of her children and trying to keep their relationship going while the children are young. 274

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

The evidence is that they're hiding something

This appears to be based on the fact that they are refusing to provide further grist for the mills of conspiracy theorists looking to smear them. Just because someone tells you to go fuck yourself when you demand information from them you have no right to ask for doesn't mean they're "hiding something".

that Elmi (likely) calls Omar's daughters his nieces

We've already discussed the fact that calling someone "uncle/aunt/niece/nephew" in Somali and many other cultures is commonly used to refer to other family members and even family friends. It wouldn't ""kick off" anything in the Somali community. This isn't a piece of the jigsaw puzzle; this is a Wheat Thin you nibbled the corners off and are claiming is a puzzle piece.

and that Omar lived with both of her husbands at the same time.

"Both of her husbands".

Let's say for example that Omar's husband, Hirsi, is bisexual and polyamorous. He meets a handsome, British Somali lad online and tells Omar that he's debating to leave her and go to England. They talk it out and decide that she's okay with him having a boyfriend.

The most practical way for them to all be together, they decide, is for Omar to marry Elmi.

They bring Elmi into the US as Omar's husband and all start to live together. They call Elmi an 'Uncle' to their children and he calls them his nieces.

Pretty quickly, the family determines that this was all a bad idea and Elmi leaves to go live on his own. Eventually, he returns to England after he's done studying at University. Omar and him are still friendly, it's more the Hirsi/Elmi relationship that's off.

The social media links between Omar and Elmi, with him calling her kids "niece" and her dad (for whatever reason) going by a similar name to Elmi kicks off a brother/sister theory among the Somali community, which eventually leads to Omar being investigated and her tax history being discovered.

As a politician, she decides that the whole bisexual + polyamorous husband thing is a bridge too far for her to maintain her political base, regardless of whether they generally vote Democratic. As such, she scrubs all social media connection between herself and Elmi and denies having any relationship with him anymore.

Through this, she'll have generated some false testimony to USCIS during her marriage to Elmi and then further perjured herself during the divorce proceedings but, ultimately, this was all just a load of nonsense brought on by the father of her children and trying to keep their relationship going while the children are young.

Cool story, bro. 275

[Skywatcher]

And a nice pile of sand. 276

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

Cool story, bro.

Physical models of the universe are all just hypotheticals that match the known facts. Would you say that we should stick with relativity, because it was given to us from up on high by Albert Fuckin' Einstein, or continue to postulate other possibilities in the aim of finding things that we can test to prove/disprove some subset of the rainbow of possibilities?

Should a police officer pick their perp and simply charge them, 'cause their gut told them it was "this guy", or that they should do the same thing as the scientists and try to envision every single storyline that would explain the known facts and then use that to determine what evidence they would expect to exist for different ways the crime might have unfolded, and as undertaken by different suspects, so that they can go look for that evidence and narrow the options down?

Is it morally wrong for Garrett Lisi to detail his Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything? Should we stop people like him? Should we tell him, "You're only allowed to postulate one hypothesis and no more!"?

Are you aware of anything that works better by making a priori assumptions and telling people to not review the whole spectrum of possibilities? 277

[k9bfriender]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Physical models of the universe are all just hypotheticals that match the known facts. Would you say that we should stick with relativity, because it was given to us from up on high by Albert Fuckin' Einstein, or continue to postulate other possibilities in the aim of finding things that we can test to prove/disprove some subset of the rainbow of possibilities?

Are you saying that Omar marrying her brother has a similar amount of evidence towards it as the theory of relativity does?

Should a police officer pick their perp and simply charge them, 'cause their gut told them it was "this guy", or that they should do the same thing as the scientists and try to envision every single storyline that would explain the known facts and then use that to determine what evidence they would expect to exist for different ways the crime might have unfolded, and as undertaken by different suspects, so that they can go look for that evidence and narrow the options down?

No, they shouldn't. The ones that would would be the ones propagating this theory.

Is it morally wrong for Garrett Lisi to detail his Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything? Should we stop people like him? Should we tell him, "You're only allowed to postulate one hypothesis and no more!"?

No just because he's wrong doesn't make him morally wrong. But, if he were to tell me that I need to do the work to prove him wrong, when he hasn't done any of the work to prove himself right, then he'd be wrong on how the scientific method works as well.

Are you aware of anything that works better by making a priori assumptions and telling people to not review the whole spectrum of possibilities?

I heard the other day that you were a murderer. Rather than put any effort into gathering evidence for my proposition, I'm going to demand that you do the work of clearing yourself. 278

[Cheesesteak]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Physical models of the universe are all just hypotheticals that match the known facts.

How about you start with one fucking fact, like whether or not Elmi is her brother? 279

[Lance Turbo]

Originally Posted by k9bfriender

Are you saying that Omar marrying her brother has a similar amount of evidence towards it as the theory of relativity does?

Note that in his latest bisexual threeway theory Elmi and Omar are not siblings.

Crazy right? His conspiracy theory that 'fits the facts' does not even include the conspiracy that spawned this thread. It's a completely different conspiracy theory. 280

[Monty]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

I don't. That's why I'm choosing to remain highly skeptical of the accusation.

That's not exactly what you said. You said you are skeptical of it but you remain open to the possibility she's done something wrong. Let's try it this way:

EXACTLY WHAT THE FUCK HAS SHE DONE THAT MAKES YOU THINK SHE MIGHT HAVE DONE SOMETHING ILLEGAL LIKE MARRYING HER BROTHER? 281

[Smapti]

Originally Posted by Lance Turbo

Note that in his latest bisexual threeway theory Elmi and Omar are not siblings.

Crazy right? His conspiracy theory that 'fits the facts' does not even include the conspiracy that spawned this thread. It's a completely different conspiracy theory.

It's not even a theory, though.

It's fanfiction. 282

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by DrFidelius

"Highly skeptical" does not equal "recognize bullshit."

True. Maybe I’m a credulous skeptic.

Originally Posted by Monty

EXACTLY WHAT THE FUCK ... ?

Clearly there’s no room for fence-sitters in this conversation.
Or in this case, even just peering over the fence.
From where I stand, these accusations look and smell like bullshit, but I am rather shortsighted, so let me just take a closer look...
“Get the fuck away from the fence!” you say. “GET RIGHT THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE FENCE!!!”

So, to be clear, I dooooooooooon’t think Ilham Omar has done anything wrong.
I doooooooon’t think she’s hiding anything.

The only thing that makes me go “Hmmm...? is that, according to a clearly biased news source, someone who allegedly shares her ex-husband’s name has both claimed to be the person photographed with her and has denied knowing her. That’s it.

What it means, I don’t know. I’m happy to wait and see.
(Although less happy with sanctimonious finger-wagging from one side and angry shouting from the other.) 283

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Physical models of the universe are all just hypotheticals that match the known facts. ......
Are you aware of anything that works better by making a priori assumptions and telling people to not review the whole spectrum of possibilities?

So far you’ve hypothesized that Omar’s father may have been some kind of war criminal, that Omar may have married her bastard half brother to get him into college, and that Omar may have been in a polyamorous relationship with two bisexual men.
Now you’re bringing Einstein and universal theories of everything into the discussion? Are you Dirk Gently?

You're going way beyond Just Asking Questions. You're telling tales.

As Lance Turbo has pointed out, your polyamory hypothesis completely ditches the incestuous marriage hypothesis.
And yet it’s equally salacious.
OP: Ilham Omar married her brother.
Sage Rat: Yep, I reckon I can find some evidence for that. But how about this? Ilham Omar was in a polyamorous marriage!?

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

The evidence is that they're hiding something, that Elmi (likely) calls Omar's daughters his nieces, and that Omar lived with both of her husbands at the same time. Pigeonholing the "something" to "brother marriage" isn't a disproof, it's just pigeonholing.

Heck, both of my dad’s ex-wives still get together from time to time.
And I’m an ex-Mormon!
Now from just those two pieces of information you could hypothesize that my family is a polyamorous cult and that my mum and stepmum are lesbian lovers!
The actual facts are quite mundane and would completely negate such an outlandish idea.
But the actual facts are none of your business. So I guess I must be hiding something shameful or nefarious!

And you’re still hung up on the “niece” thing!
As others have repeatedly told you, Elmi doesn’t have to be Omar’s brother or the family’s gay “uncle” to call Omar’s child “niece”.
If the Elmi who posted that picture is the same man who was married to Omar for a time, isn’t that reason enough for him to consider Omar’s child (not his own) his “niece”? 284

[Monty]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

True. Maybe I’m a credulous skeptic.

Go find a dictionary. Look up those two words.

This

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

Clearly there’s no room for fence-sitters in this conversation.
Or in this case, even just peering over the fence.
From where I stand, these accusations look and smell like bullshit, but I am rather shortsighted, so let me just take a closer look...
“Get the fuck away from the fence!” you say. “GET RIGHT THE FUCK AWAY FROM THE FENCE!!!”

So, to be clear, I dooooooooooon’t think Ilham Omar has done anything wrong.
I doooooooon’t think she’s hiding anything.

does not mesh with this

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

The only thing that makes me go “Hmmm...? is that, according to a clearly biased news source, someone who allegedly shares her ex-husband’s name has both claimed to be the person photographed with her and has denied knowing her. That’s it.

What it means, I don’t know. I’m happy to wait and see.
(Although less happy with sanctimonious finger-wagging from one side and angry shouting from the other.)

You weasel. 285

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Monty

Go find a dictionary. Look up those two words.

That was meant to be a self-depreciating joke.

This... does not mesh with this

Saying I DON'T think Omar did anything wrong, but I DO wonder why [alleged] photo guy has [allegedly] denied knowing her doesn't mesh?
Is it OK if I say I'm 95% confident the allegations against Omar are bullshit?
Is it OK if I say if Alpha News [which DOES seem obscenely biased against Omar, and a blatantly right-wing agenda-pushing rag in general] has in fact talked with the guy in the photos [allegedly Omar's one-time husband Elmi], and if he actually made the statements that they claim he made, then that would present an apparent oddity, but would still not be evidence that Omar married her brother?
Because that's where I'm at right now.

You weasel.

That's harsh. Considering I've tried to make it clear that I still think the accusations against Omar are more than likely bullshit.
Have I crossed you somehow?
I am genuinely miffed.

Throughout this thread I've been pointing out how the OP's accusation and Sage Rat's JAQing off look and smell like bullshit.
Is 95% not good enough?
Call me a sucker if you must, but don't call me a weasel. 286

[orcenio]

First Obama's birth and then Ilhan Omar's marriage; now Trump seems to have heroically uncovered Representative Rashida Tlaib's questionable lineage too.

Or should I say: ' "Representative" "Rashida Tlaib"'s questionable "lineage" ' 287

[Monty]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

That was meant to be a self-depreciating joke.


Saying I DON'T think Omar did anything wrong, but I DO wonder why [alleged] photo guy has [allegedly] denied knowing her doesn't mesh?
Is it OK if I say I'm 95% confident the allegations against Omar are bullshit?
Is it OK if I say if Alpha News [which DOES seem obscenely biased against Omar, and a blatantly right-wing agenda-pushing rag in general] has in fact talked with the guy in the photos [allegedly Omar's one-time husband Elmi], and if he actually made the statements that they claim he made, then that would present an apparent oddity, but would still not be evidence that Omar married her brother?
Because that's where I'm at right now.


That's harsh. Considering I've tried to make it clear that I still think the accusations against Omar are more than likely bullshit.
Have I crossed you somehow?
I am genuinely miffed.

Throughout this thread I've been pointing out how the OP's accusation and Sage Rat's JAQing off look and smell like bullshit.
Is 95% not good enough?
Call me a sucker if you must, but don't call me a weasel.

What load of rubbish. The accusations are 100% bullshit.

Don't weasel, and I won't call you one. That's more than you're affording Ms. Omar. 288

[k9bfriender]

Originally Posted by Smapti

It's not even a theory, though.

It's fanfiction.

I don't think they are fans. 289

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by k9bfriender

I don't think they are fans.

Slashfiction? 290

[Not Carlson]

Originally Posted by Monty

What load of rubbish. The accusations are 100% bullshit.

Don't weasel, and I won't call you one. That's more than you're affording Ms. Omar.

Monty, are you perhaps interpreting my words in post #269 or #283 as deliberately implying or insinuating that Ilham Omar has done something wrong?
Because that is in no way my intention.
Did you perhaps skip over everything I wrote challenging the OP and Sage Rat in defense of Omar? Because that’s the only way I can see you interpreting my words that way.

I came to this thread to defend Ilham Omar because I think she’s an intelligent and honest person and the type of progressive leader that is very much needed in politics today. And because I see a lot of hateful and dishonest attacks being made on her.
But if you’re determined to see me as a weasel, then saying all this isn’t going to make a lick of difference, since you will probably assume that I’m lying. 291

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Not Carlson

Ilham Omar

Now that’s an unfortunate typo. 292

[Not Carlson]

And yet apparently not the most unfortunate blunder I've made in this thread.
(The biggest of which may have been joining it in the first place.) 293

[bobot]

Gotta hand it to the OP of this thread. Posted to this board one single time, and it's the first post in this thread. That's makin' em count. 294

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by bobot

Gotta hand it to the OP of this thread. Posted to this board one single time, and it's the first post in this thread. That's makin' em count.

That’s some professional trolling right there. 295

[Gyrate]

Originally Posted by k9bfriender

I heard the other day that you were a murderer. Rather than put any effort into gathering evidence for my proposition, I'm going to demand that you do the work of clearing yourself.

A more plausible theory is that Sage Rat's account has been hijacked by a professional right-wing troll who is using it to promulgate the coordinated smear campaign against Omar. For evidence, I present every single Sage Rat post in this thread. It's now up to Sage Rat to provide evidence that he's not a troll and that the mods shouldn't just shut his account down. Because my theory is just as plausible as the Theory of Relativity.

Because that's how this works.

Apparently. 296

[Omar Little]

Apparently her husband now wants a divorce: https://nypost.com/2019/09/03/rep-il...bshell-source/ 297

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by Gyrate

A more plausible theory is that Sage Rat's account has been hijacked by a professional right-wing troll who is using it to promulgate the coordinated smear campaign against Omar. For evidence, I present every single Sage Rat post in this thread. It's now up to Sage Rat to provide evidence that he's not a troll and that the mods shouldn't just shut his account down. Because my theory is just as plausible as the Theory of Relativity.

Because that's how this works.

Apparently.

If you genuinely care about Omar and you genuinely care about the truth, you can do these things and you are completely liable to completely demolish the right. If you would rather call me a troll than simply prove the right wrong, you should ask why you're doing the first and not the latter when, purportedly, you are a person who cares about Omar and the truth. Proving the right wrong helps her. Proving that I'm a troll or that a troll took over my account or whatever else doesn't accomplish jack shit in the world, so if that's what you're spending your time doing, then you're doing jack shit for the world when there's a very easy and straightforward way for you to be doing otherwise.

And let's also note, I have presented evidence and I have clearly stated that the evidence is not conclusive and is completely copacetic with eventualities where she is innocent. If you're writing that I have not presented evidence and that I've claimed that I know something about her, that I've claimed that she is certainly guilty, etc. you should ask how you came to that conclusion. How did you brain decide that something is true which can clearly be contradicted by quotable materials on this very message board and which, presumably, you have seen?

I'm sitting here telling you how to disprove the accusations and trying to push you to disprove them. If that's your definition of a right-wing troll, then you need to question how your brain is looking at the world in modern times. 298

[iiandyiiii]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

If you genuinely care about Omar and you genuinely care about the truth, you can do these things and you are completely liable to completely demolish the right. If you would rather call me a troll than simply prove the right wrong, you should ask why you're doing the first and not the latter when, purportedly, you are a person who cares about Omar and the truth. Proving the right wrong helps her. Proving that I'm a troll or that a troll took over my account or whatever else doesn't accomplish jack shit in the world, so if that's what you're spending your time doing, then you're doing jack shit for the world when there's a very easy and straightforward way for you to be doing otherwise.

And let's also note, I have presented evidence and I have clearly stated that the evidence is not conclusive and is completely copacetic with eventualities where she is innocent. If you're writing that I have not presented evidence and that I've claimed that I know something about her, that I've claimed that she is certainly guilty, etc. you should ask how you came to that conclusion. How did you brain decide that something is true which can clearly be contradicted by quotable materials on this very message board and which, presumably, you have seen?

I'm sitting here telling you how to disprove the accusations and trying to push you to disprove them. If that's your definition of a right-wing troll, then you need to question how your brain is looking at the world in modern times.

There is no actual evidence that she married her brother. All you showed was evidence consistent with one possible story that she married her brother. It's also consistent with a possible story that she married a space alien shape-changer. Or that she is a space alien shape-changer. Or a million other possibilities.

The way to combat this kind of silliness is to ignore it, barring actual evidence. This is bullshit conspiracy nonsense. There's no reasoning with those who believe bullshit conspiracy nonsense. 299

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by iiandyiiii

There is no actual evidence that she married her brother. All you showed was evidence consistent with one possible story that she married her brother.

Which, as noted, is my stance on the matter. And it is also consistent with innocence, with her husband being bisexual, and a hundred other things.

Congratulations, you've written what I wrote and believe what I believe. 300