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  #2501  
Old 07-13-2013, 05:15 PM
Ethilrist is offline
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An Oregon man told police he was using his assault rifle as a crutch to help him get up from a couch at a friend's apartment
Quote:
Lori Nelson, who lives down the block, said she was startled by the noise of gunfire, and saw Meyer running down the driveway.
Something tells me he's making up the "crutch" part.
  #2502  
Old 07-13-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Enkel View Post
Man doesn't realize he owns a fully automatic rifle, tries to use it as a crutch to get off the couch, blasts little girl upstairs into heaven.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...07-12-19-07-44


DAMN! There goes that "no one has committed a crime with an automatic weapon since [pick date @ 100 years ago ]" mantra.
That's not a crime, it's collateral damage in the war against totalitarianism.
  #2503  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Enkel View Post
DAMN! There goes that "no one has committed a crime with an automatic weapon since [pick date @ 100 years ago ]" mantra.
Yeah, now that we're up to 3 crimes in the last century, it's just common sense to start building the concentration camps for gun owners.
  #2504  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by fumster View Post
That's not a crime, it's collateral damage in the war against totalitarianism.
Can Crafterman still play with his gunnie-wunnies? If he can still play with his gunnie-wunnies, this girl's death was worth it.
  #2505  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Condescending Robot View Post
Yeah, now that we're up to 3 crimes in the last century, it's just common sense to start building the concentration camps for gun owners.
Well, machine gun owners, sure.
  #2506  
Old 07-13-2013, 07:59 PM
Vinyl Turnip is online now
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If we had universal health care, he would've had a real crutch.
  #2507  
Old 07-13-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Vinyl Turnip View Post
If we had universal health care, he would've had a real crutch.
Yeah but that would mean, like Socialism or something and they don't like guns and stuff.
  #2508  
Old 07-13-2013, 09:28 PM
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http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/p...215267661.html

Wisconsin recently passed a concealed carry law.

Concealed carry shootout.

Two Milwaukee men — each with a state permit to carry a concealed weapon — traded dozens of shots in a rolling shootout through two sides of town and down a freeway, the kind of Wild West scenario concealed carry opponents warned would turn road rage incidents deadly.

No one was killed or injured in the June 26 incident, according to a criminal complaint that charges just one of the men, who says he feels like he's being punished for being a victim.
  #2509  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:08 PM
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That's not possible. CCW people are different than everyone else and do not commit crimes, let alone engage in unsafe gun practices.

Plus they follow four simple rules.

And they could have thrown swimming pools or alcohol at each other anyway.
  #2510  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:20 PM
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Concealed carry has been legalized in every state over the last 50 years, over which crime, violence, murder, and gun crime have consistently gone down.

I am not claiming a relationship. It is much more likely that factors such as the end to using lead paint, legalized abortion and contraception, a different view of child abuse, more stringent imprisonment such as three-strikes laws, and many other societal factors are responsible for the precipitous drop in violence crime. In fact, when looking at the data properly, the only rational conclusion is that gun laws and gun ownership have no relationship at all to any category of crime.

Please resume your regularly scheduled emotion-driven irrationality.
  #2511  
Old 07-13-2013, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Enkel View Post
Man doesn't realize he owns a fully automatic rifle, tries to use it as a crutch to get off the couch, blasts little girl upstairs into heaven.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...07-12-19-07-44


DAMN! There goes that "no one has committed a crime with an automatic weapon since [pick date @ 100 years ago ]" mantra.
Can't make an omelette without shooting a few little girls. Or something. She's a real patriot hero, dying for freedom like that.
  #2512  
Old 07-14-2013, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by fumster View Post
And what puzzles me is how anti gun control folks reach the opposite conclusion from that stat (if indeed it is true).
Have any of the anti-gun folks provided any cites?

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To me, the obvious conclusion is that all transfers of guns should require a background check and all guns should be registered. How else do we know if the felon turned in his guns?
The license is a de facto background check. You can't get a license without one.

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Originally Posted by Enkel View Post
DAMN! There goes that "no one has committed a crime with an automatic weapon since [pick date @ 100 years ago ]" mantra.
Accident /= crime. There is usually an intent requirement or something close to it.

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Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Yeah but that would mean, like Socialism or something and they don't like guns and stuff.
Socialists don't like guns?

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Originally Posted by Condescending Robot View Post
Concealed carry has been legalized in every state over the last 50 years, over which crime, violence, murder, and gun crime have consistently gone down.

I am not claiming a relationship. It is much more likely that factors such as the end to using lead paint, legalized abortion and contraception, a different view of child abuse, more stringent imprisonment such as three-strikes laws, and many other societal factors are responsible for the precipitous drop in violence crime. In fact, when looking at the data properly, the only rational conclusion is that gun laws and gun ownership have no relationship at all to any category of crime.

Please resume your regularly scheduled emotion-driven irrationality.
Irrationality is about as fundamental to the anti-gun folks as it is to the anti-nuclear power folks or anti-gay folks. They don't give a shit about the facts, they know the TRUTH!!!

Every expert on both sides of the debate that has opined on the subject of CCW has said that CCW presents no greater danger to the public than not having CCW. In fact they seem to think that CCWs are generally safer and less prone to crime than the general population.
  #2513  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Yeah but that would mean, like Socialism or something and they don't like guns and stuff.
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Socialists don't like guns?
Well according to my relatives, that describes Obama perfectly.
  #2514  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Well according to my relatives, that describes Obama perfectly.
Just because your relatives are stupid doesn't mean that you have to be too. Stupidity of that sort isn't genetic.
  #2515  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Irrationality is about as fundamental to the anti-gun folks as it is to the anti-nuclear power folks or anti-gay folks. They don't give a shit about the facts, they know the TRUTH!!!

Every expert on both sides of the debate that has opined on the subject of CCW has said that CCW presents no greater danger to the public than not having CCW. In fact they seem to think that CCWs are generally safer and less prone to crime than the general population.
Before you ran into the irrational emotional anti gun people on these boards, you were claiming that CCW people didn't engage in crime.

Yeah, you're eminently rational. Stupid bitch.
  #2516  
Old 07-14-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Just because your relatives are stupid doesn't mean that you have to be too. Stupidity of that sort isn't genetic.
Short on humor today, are we?
  #2517  
Old 07-14-2013, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Accident /= crime. There is usually an intent requirement or something close to it.
So, he's not going to be charged for a crime?
  #2518  
Old 07-14-2013, 04:27 PM
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No degree of stupidity and recklessness is enough to lose the title of Law-Abiding Citizen.

The little girl's family are no doubt proud of the knowledge that they've helped preserve the precious Second Amendment Right To Kill for a bit longer.
  #2519  
Old 07-14-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
Before you ran into the irrational emotional anti gun people on these boards, you were claiming that CCW people didn't engage in crime.

Yeah, you're eminently rational. Stupid bitch.
There's got to be a latin phrase for what you are doing here. So I make a statement, you ask for a cite and I immediately realize how stupid the statement is and retract it. Then you go on to bring it up several times to impeach me.

Is this why you have such a hard time admitting you are wrong on things you are so clearly wrong about?

I can't count the number of times you have asked for a cite, had it provided and then instead of admitting that you might be wrong, you just shut up about it from then on (at least you don't keep asking for the same cite over and over again like Elvis).

You're just butthurt that you are wrong on something you clearly feel strongly about.

All you have left at this point is digging up dead children to parade around and insults.

You're pathetic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethilrist View Post
So, he's not going to be charged for a crime?
I don't know but an accident /=crime. It could be some form of criminal negligence but just because someone dies (even if its a little girl) doesn't mean a crime has been committed.
  #2520  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
All you have left at this point is digging up dead children to parade around and insults.
You're pathetic.

I don't know but an accident /=crime. It could be some form of criminal negligence but just because someone dies (even if its a little girl) doesn't mean a crime has been committed.
Sorry hon, but dead, innocent, children are a travesty by anyone's (but yours) standards. And most likely having an automatic weapon in most states is illegal in and of itself. And using an automatic weapon as a crutch is ridiculous to every person in the free world except maybe you. Would you be saying the same thing if this dead child was you own? If you answer yes all I can reply is "YOU MONSTER", yeah stole it from GLADOS. Oh and we don't have to dig up dead children, you gun nuts are laying them out every damn day in plain site.
  #2521  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
And most likely having an automatic weapon in most states is illegal in and of itself. And using an automatic weapon as a crutch is ridiculous to every person in the free world except maybe you. Would you be saying the same thing if this dead child was you own? If you answer yes all I can reply is "YOU MONSTER", yeah stole it from GLADOS. Oh and we don't have to dig up dead children, you gun nuts are laying them out every damn day in plain site.
As the first child ever killed with an automatic weapon in the history of the United States, I'm sure this person will be the straw that breaks the camel's back on the issue.
  #2522  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Condescending Robot View Post
As the first child ever killed with an automatic weapon in the history of the United States, I'm sure this person will be the straw that breaks the camel's back on the issue.
Give us a fucking break. Gun nutters always brag about how easy and quick it is to modify their made-to-be-modified autos right back to auto. Don't be so stupid.
  #2523  
Old 07-14-2013, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
Sorry hon, but dead, innocent, children are a travesty by anyone's (but yours) standards. And most likely having an automatic weapon in most states is illegal in and of itself. And using an automatic weapon as a crutch is ridiculous to every person in the free world except maybe you.
I don't know why the hell Damuri is taking the line he is. In THIS gun nut's book, malfeasant discharge (fuck "negligent", using it as a goddamn crutch?) means you do the time for the crime your bullets committed, and you don't get to own weapons anymore after that, either.
  #2524  
Old 07-15-2013, 12:20 AM
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Did you hear the one about the gun nut and the abortion clinic doctor?

It really slays the kids.
  #2525  
Old 07-15-2013, 12:27 AM
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Give us a fucking break. Gun nutters always brag about how easy and quick it is to modify their made-to-be-modified autos right back to auto. Don't be so stupid.
Oh, so there's even MORE automatic weapons out there than the official statistics indicate, and still, this is the first time something like this has ever happened? You're making a great case.
  #2526  
Old 07-15-2013, 06:59 AM
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Sorry hon, but dead, innocent, children are a travesty by anyone's (but yours) standards.
That's right. He actually dismisses the importance of human life, children's included, as the price that must be paid to keep him supplied with guns to stroke. Apply some DSM-IV and he fits the symptoms of not only a fetishist but a psychopath, the kind he says should not be able to have guns, but who he'll support when there's legislation on the table. And he's proud to call himself one of the reasonable, moderate ones.

Because of people like him, the tragic string of useless killings continues.
  #2527  
Old 07-15-2013, 07:17 AM
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Damuri Ajashi, I've had to educate you on odds ratios, on causation, on the CDC, and several other key points.

Yes, you were fundamentally wrong on CCW people committing crimes as well, but it wasn't me who educated you on that.

Plain and simple, the gun douchebag side has been represented by fucking morons in this thread, whose rationality has not yet exceeded the standard of linking to you tube videos.

Please remind me where I've failed to provide a cite for you. I'll be happy to keep trying to help you.
  #2528  
Old 07-15-2013, 07:22 AM
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Haven't really followed this thread--is stupid gun reporting on point?

Blaring headline: Man with pellet gun, alcohol arrested after taking photos of John Kerry’s Beacon Hill home

Crazed right wing stalker? Loony leftie unsatisfied with the administration? Maniacal apolitical tourist with a vengeance? Who knows. At the heart of the story is some guy taking pictures of Kerry's mansion. Yes, he had an open container of the devil's juice. Oh, and the pellet gun? In his car. Sure sure, you can paint a menacing picture (see Globe, Boston), but really?
  #2529  
Old 07-15-2013, 10:19 AM
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Where can I buy some of this Devil's Juice™ ?
  #2530  
Old 07-15-2013, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
Sorry hon, but dead, innocent, children are a travesty by anyone's (but yours) standards. And most likely having an automatic weapon in most states is illegal in and of itself. And using an automatic weapon as a crutch is ridiculous to every person in the free world except maybe you. Would you be saying the same thing if this dead child was you own? If you answer yes all I can reply is "YOU MONSTER", yeah stole it from GLADOS. Oh and we don't have to dig up dead children, you gun nuts are laying them out every damn day in plain site.
Are you seriously trying to say that I think dead children are a good thing? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Having an automatic weapon is legal in the state where this guy was. His negligence could just as easily have killed a child with a hunting rifle (the sort of guns that anti-gun folks seem to be OK with).

Are you saying that I don't think there is anything wrong with using a gun as a crutch? Or that handling a gun in an unsafe manner is OK? What the fuck is wrong with you that you would read this into what I said? I say that an accident is not neccesarily a crime and you leap to baby killer and yosemite sam?

Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by levdrakon View Post
Give us a fucking break. Gun nutters always brag about how easy and quick it is to modify their made-to-be-modified autos right back to auto. Don't be so stupid.
Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeriel View Post
I don't know why the hell Damuri is taking the line he is. In THIS gun nut's book, malfeasant discharge (fuck "negligent", using it as a goddamn crutch?) means you do the time for the crime your bullets committed, and you don't get to own weapons anymore after that, either.
Because the original post regarding this incident said:

"DAMN! There goes that "no one has committed a crime with an automatic weapon since [pick date @ 100 years ago ]" mantra."

And subsequent posters proceeded to treat this as a crime simply because someone died, not in an attack on poor gun handling but an attack on gun ownership. Do you see the shit that posters like Sinjin wrote upthread, she acts like the guy wanted to kill that girl? Do YOU think that there is a crime every time someone dies? Sure, this guy is liable but I don't know if he goes to jail for murder or whatever.

Bullets don't commit crimes, people do and the state of mind is often an important element to a crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
That's right. He actually dismisses the importance of human life, children's included, as the price that must be paid to keep him supplied with guns to stroke. Apply some DSM-IV and he fits the symptoms of not only a fetishist but a psychopath, the kind he says should not be able to have guns, but who he'll support when there's legislation on the table. And he's proud to call himself one of the reasonable, moderate ones.

Because of people like him, the tragic string of useless killings continues.
You are an idiot. The people on your side of the argument all wish you would just shut the fuck up because you make them all look like idiots.

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Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
Damuri Ajashi, I've had to educate you on odds ratios, on causation, on the CDC, and several other key points.
Bullshit. The Author of the CDC report was making inferring causation from the correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths in the home. When confronted with his assumption, he replied by saying that any drug that had that sort of correlation with death would immediately be pulled from the shelves.

You live in a fairly fact free environment which makes your arguments so one sided that you always end up believing your own bullshit. You still don't acknowledge that guns have any sort of beneficial effect in society.

Quote:
Plain and simple, the gun douchebag side has been represented by fucking morons in this thread, whose rationality has not yet exceeded the standard of linking to you tube videos.
Is gun douchebag a euphamism for gungrabber? Because if you look through this thread, most of the fact free idiot posts have been from the gun grabber side. This thread just confirms what most people already know. Gun grabbers cannot think rationally when it comes to guns.

In fact the reason that this is the only live gun thread left is because you guys have had your asses handed to you in every other gun thread except the one that allow you to post when gun accidents kill people. It is a well established fact that ~700 people die from gun accidents every year, it is also a well established that there are at least 100,000 defensive gun uses every year. I don't know how many of those defensive gun uses prevented death but I'm gonna guess more than 0.7% of them.

Quote:
Please remind me where I've failed to provide a cite for you. I'll be happy to keep trying to help you.
Where did I accuse you of failing to provide cites?

Or are you confusing yourself for Elvis?

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 07-15-2013 at 06:14 PM.
  #2531  
Old 07-15-2013, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Bullshit. The Author of the CDC report was making inferring causation from the correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths in the home. When confronted with his assumption, he replied by saying that any drug that had that sort of correlation with death would immediately be pulled from the shelves.
What CDC report? You've forgotten what I tried to teach you about the difference between the CDC and the authors of the research studies. They are not the same, dummy.

So, what CDC report are you even talking about?
Quote:
You live in a fairly fact free environment which makes your arguments so one sided that you always end up believing your own bullshit.
No, I rely on empirical evidence. You don't even understand empirical evidence. You're too stupid to remember what others teach you about empirical evidence. You live in a world where you piss your pants with fear of the boogeyman, and have relied on guns and fantasy to fight your gnawing sense that you're a big pussy.
Quote:
You still don't acknowledge that guns have any sort of beneficial effect in society.
I've been clear that my concern is the NET impact. You're too stupid to have comprehended this.
Quote:
Is gun douchebag a euphamism for gungrabber? Because if you look through this thread, most of the fact free idiot posts have been from the gun grabber side. This thread just confirms what most people already know. Gun grabbers cannot think rationally when it comes to guns.
No, again, people arguing for gun control have been the only ones to rely on fact. I provided only a scant list of examples of things you've had to be informed about, and you have shown that in the short months since this all started, you've already forgotten.
Quote:
In fact the reason that this is the only live gun thread left is because you guys have had your asses handed to you in every other gun thread except the one that allow you to post when gun accidents kill people.
Pure fantasy. But you've proven adept at relying on fantasy to make yourself feel less impotent.
Quote:
It is a well established fact that ~700 people die from gun accidents every year
And? Relevance?
Quote:
, it is also a well established that there are at least 100,000 defensive gun uses every year.
Bullshit. I've explained repeatedly to you why no reliable estimate has been developed. I've quoted experts on the limitations of the available data in answering this question. There's no point in providing you with evidence if your brain is like a sieve.
Quote:
I don't know how many of those defensive gun uses prevented death but I'm gonna guess more than 0.7% of them.
Your an idiot. For example:
Quote:
Where did I accuse you of failing to provide cites?
Okay, dumbass, give me a fucking example of me not being able to rebut any cite you've given.
  #2532  
Old 07-15-2013, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Are you seriously trying to say that I think dead children are a good thing? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Having an automatic weapon is legal in the state where this guy was. His negligence could just as easily have killed a child with a hunting rifle (the sort of guns that anti-gun folks seem to be OK with).

Are you saying that I don't think there is anything wrong with using a gun as a crutch? Or that handling a gun in an unsafe manner is OK? What the fuck is wrong with you that you would read this into what I said? I say that an accident is not neccesarily a crime and you leap to baby killer and yosemite sam?

Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you?
DA: you are the asshole that was hand waving this whole thing off as an accident as if there was nothing possible that could have prevented it. Like maybe not have a loaded fully automatic weapon and using it as a fucking crutch. And oh, so sorry your kid is dead, but you know accidents happen. Spilling your milk is a fucking accident, using a loaded automatic weapon as a crutch is obscene.

And now your doing more hand waving saying that owning an automatic weapon is not a crime in Oregon, yeah, look away everyone no crime committed here, just an accident, nothing to see here. But in Oregon you need an FBI background check to legally own one. Want to take bets on whether the guy you are defending had one. Oh, wait he didn't even know it was an automatic weapon, right, the fuckers only cost thousands of dollars.

As to your hunting rifle question I think it's very likely the girl would have had a better chance of surviving a single bullet thru the ceiling vs multiple bullets. But I would still be pissed off even if she hadn't been hit at all. Wouldn't you? No you wouldn't because you're an asshole.
  #2533  
Old 07-16-2013, 02:00 AM
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Man accidentally shot by gun that dropped out of his holster


Of course, the story begins with "A man with a valid firearm carry permit..."

http://m.upi.com/story/UPI-95901373470856/


Luckily, this asshole only shot himself.
  #2534  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:08 AM
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Yanno. There is a chilling parallel. Just because you now are permitted to strap a hand cannon to your thigh doesn't mean everyone SHOULD. In a culture where you are not required to take proper training, stupid and lethal events will continue to rise.

The parallel? Russian drivers are notoriously wild and dangerous, and the profusion of dashboard cams makes it terribly clear how an irresponsible and poorly trained population of car owners are a real threat to the safety of all.

It is just dumb luck that the Wal Mart incident did not include " hey lady, get your baby's brains the fuck off my hood. I gotta get home before my ice cream sandwiches melt. "

  #2535  
Old 07-16-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Wolf333 View Post
Of course, the story begins with "A man with a valid firearm carry permit..."

http://m.upi.com/story/UPI-95901373470856/


Luckily, this asshole only shot himself.
This is not possible, as CCW people are preternaturally excellent, confident steely eyed gun hands. They can size up a scenario and drop a witty and apropos line at the same time.
  #2536  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:14 AM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
What CDC report? You've forgotten what I tried to teach you about the difference between the CDC and the authors of the research studies. They are not the same, dummy.
I know the butthurt of losing on all fronts stings (pro-tip, next time don't go for retarded shit like an AWB) but when we last had this "conversation" it was clear that by "CDC report" I was referring to the CDC funded report. Do you really want to argue over this detail?

Quote:
I've been clear that my concern is the NET impact. You're too stupid to have comprehended this.
Really? So where have you measured the negative impact of guns in society with the positive impact of guns? I don't recall you ever conceding that guns have any measurable positive effect.

Your entire argument relies on not having to argue against actual facts. You prefer to argue against facts you have manufactured to justify your extremist position.

Quote:
I've explained repeatedly to you why no reliable estimate has been developed.
And therefore you act as if guns have little or no positive impact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

Quote:
I've quoted experts on the limitations of the available data in answering this question. There's no point in providing you with evidence if your brain is like a sieve.
Yeah, and you pretend that there is no data.

Quote:
Your an idiot. For example:
So where did I accuse you of not providing cites? See this is just another example of the fantasy world you have created to make yourself right when it is clear to the whole world that you have stepped over the edge. Please come back, we have institutions where you'll be safe and well cared for.

Quote:
Okay, dumbass, give me a fucking example of me not being able to rebut any cite you've given.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_gun_use

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
DA: you are the asshole that was hand waving this whole thing off as an accident as if there was nothing possible that could have prevented it. Like maybe not have a loaded fully automatic weapon and using it as a fucking crutch. And oh, so sorry your kid is dead, but you know accidents happen. Spilling your milk is a fucking accident, using a loaded automatic weapon as a crutch is obscene.
Was intentional? No? Then it was an accident.

If this same guy had run over the little girl with a pickup, would it be any more of an accident? You are implying extra culpability for a firearms accident that you would not apply to a car accident. Sure maybe the guy goes to jail for running over the little girl but you immediately leap to criminalizing any accident that involves a gun.

Why do you think that an accident involving a firearm is automatically a crime?

I suspect its because you think merely owning a firearm should be a crime.

Quote:
As to your hunting rifle question I think it's very likely the girl would have had a better chance of surviving a single bullet thru the ceiling vs multiple bullets. But I would still be pissed off even if she hadn't been hit at all. Wouldn't you? No you wouldn't because you're an asshole.
I'm still upset at the guy's negligence and perhaps it is criminal negligence but you immediately jump to criminality ob facts that do not support criminality because a gun is involved.

@Zeriel Do yo see why I am pointing out the difference between crime and accident here? Its because posters like Sinjin impute criminality in accidents involving guns where they wouldn't impute an accident if it involved a car. I don't disagree that this guy is a shithead and should not be allowed to own guns anymore but posters like Sinjin seem ready to convict him based on the fact that a gun was involved in the death of a little girl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
This is not possible, as CCW people are preternaturally excellent, confident steely eyed gun hands. They can size up a scenario and drop a witty and apropos line at the same time.
Give it a rest. You do know that CCWs are safer than the general population, right?

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 07-16-2013 at 11:19 AM.
  #2537  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:20 AM
elucidator is offline
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Well, whatever were we worried about? "Safer than the general population", you say? Well, what a relief! I am part of that, and I'm totally cool and responsible. Unless DA says "AWB" one more fucking time, then I may go totally amok!
  #2538  
Old 07-16-2013, 12:23 PM
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And I see that DA has completely ignored the fact that a special FBI background check is necessary to own an AW in Oregon which this guy didn't seem to have bothered with. Not to mention the fact that the guy was charged with manslaughter over his little accident. I'm not going to address DA's little fantasy trip about how this is exactly the same as an unlicensed driver in an illegal car driving into a home barreling up the stairs and mowing down a child by accident.
  #2539  
Old 07-16-2013, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
Well, whatever were we worried about? "Safer than the general population", you say? Well, what a relief! I am part of that, and I'm totally cool and responsible. Unless DA says "AWB" one more fucking time, then I may go totally amok!
AWB

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinjin View Post
And I see that DA has completely ignored the fact that a special FBI background check is necessary to own an AW in Oregon which this guy didn't seem to have bothered with.
If your Special FBI background check any different than the regular federal FBI background check anyone who buys an NFA weapon in the USA has to pass?

Like I said, this guy could very well have committed a crime but we don't normally assume that anyone who is arrested and charged is guilty. That is unless you are a gun grabber and a gun is somehow involved.

Quote:
Not to mention the fact that the guy was charged with manslaughter over his little accident.
Well, at least you acknowledge it was an accident. Thats progress at least. Maybe now you can stop pretending that anyone who has a gun is secretly praying for little girls to get shot through the head.

Quote:
I'm not going to address DA's little fantasy trip about how this is exactly the same as an unlicensed driver in an illegal car driving into a home barreling up the stairs and mowing down a child by accident.
Thats about as stupid as when people say that pools don't shoot people.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 07-16-2013 at 02:18 PM.
  #2540  
Old 07-16-2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolf333 View Post
Of course, the story begins with "A man with a valid firearm carry permit..."

http://m.upi.com/story/UPI-95901373470856/


Luckily, this asshole only shot himself.
I feel like it's my job to fly the semi-reasonable gun nut flag here.

But yeah, I'd require properly secured locking holsters for CCW--minimal training is required to draw quickly from them, and they make it nigh-impossible to drop your gun or have it snatched out of your holster.

This guy? Again, IMHO, unless it's a provable manufacturer defect or it's stolen/lost and you report it PROMPTLY, you should always be 100% responsible for any bullets that leave a firearm that you own or is in your possession.
  #2541  
Old 07-16-2013, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
I know the butthurt of losing on all fronts stings (pro-tip, next time don't go for retarded shit like an AWB) but when we last had this "conversation" it was clear that by "CDC report" I was referring to the CDC funded report. Do you really want to argue over this detail?
The CDC funded report? God damn you're a dumbass. Do you think there's one CDC funded project? Do you think there is "the NIH report" or "the NIMH report"? These agencies fund many projects, which produce many papers. Their funding sources are identified, but they are not referred to as "the CDC" report.

So which fucking report are you talking about? Do you even know?
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Really? So where have you measured the negative impact of guns in society with the positive impact of guns? I don't recall you ever conceding that guns have any measurable positive effect.
When people actually defend themselves against harm, I'm quite happy.
Quote:
Your entire argument relies on not having to argue against actual facts. You prefer to argue against facts you have manufactured to justify your extremist position.
Eat shit. All you can do at this point is misrepresent and lie. You not only have no empirical evidence for your position, you don't even understand empirical evidence and you cannot recall that which has been patiently explained to you. You appear to be too stupid to know what you don't really understand.

And all in service of an effort to cover up your own personal feelings of inadequacy.

Quote:
Yeah, and you pretend that there is no data.
Again, I took pains to explain the varied surveys on the topic, to link you to papers that discussed the problems, and to provide examples to help you understand.

Your example of a time that I did not rebut a cite of yours is a link to Wikipedia? Is there some place on that Wikipedia page that documents this time that I failed to respond to your evidence? Goddamn, you're a fucking moron, and now you're adding being a lying weasel to that as well.

Quote:
Give it a rest. You do know that CCWs are safer than the general population, right?
Now they are safer? Got a cite for that?

Honestly, at this point, I think you're about as useful as Kable. You have no integrity, you misrepresent and lie, you conveniently forget what others have taught you, you simplistically accuse others of displaying all of your own limitations, and to top it off you hurl insults at people who can actually think through the matter.

I really don't know if your fear has caused you to be so cognitively impaired, but at this point it doesn't matter. You've got nothing. You're a scared little person who can only react emotionally from that position.
  #2542  
Old 07-17-2013, 02:03 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeriel View Post
This guy? Again, IMHO, unless it's a provable manufacturer defect or it's stolen/lost and you report it PROMPTLY, you should always be 100% responsible for any bullets that leave a firearm that you own or is in your possession.
Criminally or just civilly?

Also, I am pretty sure I can pull a gun from most non-serpa type holsters if you aren't paying attention.
  #2543  
Old 07-17-2013, 02:24 PM
Damuri Ajashi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian View Post
T..You appear to be too stupid to know what you don't really understand. ...And all in service of an effort to cover up your own personal feelings of inadequacy. ... Goddamn, you're a fucking moron, and now you're adding being a lying weasel to that as well....You have no integrity, you misrepresent and lie, you conveniently forget what others have taught you, you simplistically accuse others of displaying all of your own limitations, and to top it off you hurl insults at people who can actually think through the matter.
Yep, this is basically what your argument has come down to (well this and the whole "you approve of dead babies" rhetoric).

I understand. You're upset. You thought you were going to get some significant firearm legislation to make your irrational fear of inanimate objects (especially black rifles with pistol grips) go away and not only did you not get your retarded AWB you didn't even get a background check requirement at gun shows, a fucking slam dunk (and a sacrificial lamb proposede by Manchin Toomey that sounded laughably insufficient in January) because you lost all your credibility chasing an AWB.

Your side shot itself in the foot by going after that retarded AWB and you still can't get over all the butthurt you have from the failed AWB. Don't worry, you can bring it up again the next time there is national outrage over gun violence to sabotage the chances at any gun control with another push towards a reatarded AWB (although I suspect that the next time there qwon't be a push for an AWB just like noone pushes for handgun bans anymore).

Quote:
I really don't know if your fear has caused you to be so cognitively impaired, but at this point it doesn't matter. You've got nothing. You're a scared little person who can only react emotionally from that position.
What do I have to be afraid of. I live in a safe suburban community with a very low crime rate. I don't think urban rioting and violence will ever spill over into my community and I don't fear government tyranny in my lifetime.

90% of gun murder suspects are felons, domestic abusers, or subject to a restraining order. In (or near) large cities this percentage approaches 99%. These are all people who cannot legally own a gun (along with minors and the mentally ill). And yet you focus on restricting guns from the people who commit the slim minority of gun murders. Thats why my proposal for licensing and registration is much better than your retarded AWB. It imposes moderate inconvenience on legal gun owners and really significant restrictions on a felon's and wifebeater's ability to get a gun.

Keep fucking that chicken, maybe one day it will lay an AWB at your feet.

Last edited by Damuri Ajashi; 07-17-2013 at 02:25 PM.
  #2544  
Old 07-17-2013, 03:09 PM
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Just what is needed, a legal reason to fire more shots into the air - hunting licenses for drones...with a bounty if you down one!
  #2545  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damuri Ajashi View Post
Socialists don't like guns?
I'm a socialist and I like guns. Therefore, all socialists like guns.
  #2546  
Old 07-17-2013, 04:40 PM
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DA, you can claim all you want that you favor increased background checks etc. But when you celebrate the failure of efforts to actually implement them, gloating as crassly as you did in that last post, that shows what you really believe. When you show a willingness to accept the deaths of children, that too shows what you really believe.

When do you plan to stop lying to the man in the mirror?
  #2547  
Old 07-17-2013, 06:52 PM
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The current approach to long-term crime prevention in the United States has done an amazing job at lowering the death rate for children and everybody else. What are the real motives of people who would throw it all away in terms of a crusade about guns?
  #2548  
Old 07-17-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
When you show a willingness to accept the deaths of children, that too shows what you really believe.
Your first point may well be true (I cannot speak for the man) but this part is a disingenuous emotional appeal. Public policy is full of statistical risk analysis where that risk manifests in the real world as actual, concrete, horrible things happening to children and other innocent people. To suggest in any one of those cases that a person on either side of a particular analysis "accepts the deaths of children" is either mindless or dishonest; to harp on it on only one of your personal hot-button issues and not others is sheer hypocrisy to boot.
  #2549  
Old 07-17-2013, 07:45 PM
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Read his post 2519 and get back to us, willya? There's a good lad. Consider also our friend's absolute refusal to accept any preventive measures when they're on the table, and somehow blame their proponents for their having been filibustered.

Public policy, btw, is about the values we hold as a society, not just risk/reward numbers. Even if it were, what would you consider to an appropriate gun-to-child ratio to put in your analysis? What do you assess to be the benefit?

If you're going to dismiss arguments based on the principles of simple humanity and go for numerical ones instead, you had damn well better have something to offer instead. Or else the evidence is that you're just as sick a psychopath as he is.
  #2550  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
If you're going to dismiss arguments based on the principles of simple humanity and go for numerical ones instead, you had damn well better have something to offer instead. Or else the evidence is that you're just as sick a psychopath as he is.
So we can't use statistics and evidence to show what actually helps reduce deaths, and instead we have to use the "principles of simple humanity," which for some reason involve switching to a crime control regime that will cause more deaths, which is OK, because that will show how much we dislike deaths.

With arguments like this, it's no wonder the gun confiscation movement has been so successful!
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