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  #2601  
Old 03-21-2017, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
On April 5-6, there will be a meeting of NATO foreign ministers in Brussels.

The US Secretary of State will not be attending.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id..._medium=Social

Yeah, who needs to hang out with those NATO dorks? Instead, Tillerson will stay in the US to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping at Mar-a-Lago. Later in the month, Tillerson will make time to meet with Vladimir Putin in Russia. Because we want to show NATO that we care.

I don't have a link handy, and I don't have the physical or emotional strength to find it again on my phone, but earlier today I read that after meeting Xi today, Tillerson publicly stated that he shared Xi's goal of "mutual respect". This phrase is evidently a Big Deal in China, where it is taken to mean that the US and China stay out of each other's way. AIUI, China sees "mutual respect" as including the US not meddling in China-Taiwan issues, among other issues. Chinese media reported that Tillerson's use of this phrase signaled a diplomatic victory for China.

So, whaddya think? Tillerson went to China and let them get the upper hand (terrible deal!)? Or he didn't understand the importance of this phrase and stumbled into an apparent capitulation? Either way, this is maybe one of those times where having the advice of foreign service professionals would have helped.

Remember when Trump told us all how tough he'd be on China? Man, he was gonna show those Chinese who's boss! Maybe he was using air quotes around the word "tough", cuz handing Xi a diplomatic victory then skipping a NATO summit to meet with him sounds a little less tough than I imagined.
Man, Stevie Wonder has a better grasp of the optics of all this more than these turkeys.
  #2602  
Old 03-21-2017, 10:38 AM
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If Mike Pence doesn't get dragged down by this as well. Which he very well may be.
Pence is doing his level best to tacitly demonstrate distance from the Trumperfuck Amanglation without actually making any open statements against Trump. I don't like Pence and think that in his own way he might be an even worse chief executive than the short-fingered vulgarian currently occupying the office (figuratively if not literally), but aside from the revelation of using an AOL email account (seriously?) to conduct state business, he really hasn't had any major missteps or gaffs. And while using a private email account is irregular, he claims to have followed the letter of the law in making all communications using the account available for public record, and so sidestepping the worst part of the Hillarymail blunder by giving both the appearance and reality of being obstructive. I think Pence would be happy to take over, clear house of everybody with the taint of Trump on them, and fill them back up with the ranks of hyperconservative reactionary professional political advisors who are ostensibly qualified and willing to fall fully in line with the neoconservative GOP agenda that is dominating Congress.

Stranger

Last edited by Stranger On A Train; 03-21-2017 at 10:39 AM.
  #2603  
Old 03-21-2017, 01:46 PM
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The list of undocumented aliens who are on Trump's list of "criminals" released from sanctuary cities includes one released by the Sacramento County Sheriff's office. The Sacramento County Sheriff is a right wing Republican and a strong Trumpista.
  #2604  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Bayard View Post
On April 5-6, there will be a meeting of NATO foreign ministers in Brussels.

The US Secretary of State will not be attending.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/id..._medium=Social

Yeah, who needs to hang out with those NATO dorks? Instead, Tillerson will stay in the US to meet Chinese President Xi Jinping at Mar-a-Lago. Later in the month, Tillerson will make time to meet with Vladimir Putin in Russia. Because we want to show NATO that we care.
To be fair, were I a responsible Secretary of State, I might very well be scared shitless of Trump meeting the Chinese president all alone while I'm off in Europe. Much as I might like to repair relationships with our allies in NATO, possibly preventing a disastrous trade war (or actual war) with China might take precedence.

Not that I particularly think that's what Tillerson is doing here, but it's certainly plausible.
  #2605  
Old 03-21-2017, 03:38 PM
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Oh I doubt it. Trump seems to subscribe to the idea of imperial spheres and has no time at all for an expanding liberalism grounded in a framework of laws. The US is the center of the most integrated global society ever and in his view that's a weakness.
  #2606  
Old 03-21-2017, 04:15 PM
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To be fair, were I a responsible Secretary of State, I might very well be scared shitless of Trump meeting the Chinese president all alone while I'm off in Europe. Much as I might like to repair relationships with our allies in NATO, possibly preventing a disastrous trade war (or actual war) with China might take precedence
I'd think the other way. I'd want plausible deniability when it comes to light that Trump has made a bunch of deals with China, giving them whatever they want in exchange for more favorable positions for Trump branded crap. I'd want to be able to say "wasn't at that meeting. See - here's me, in Brussels with NATO. No idea he was selling off the farm."
  #2607  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:06 PM
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Not that I particularly think that's what Tillerson is doing here, but it's certainly plausible.
Is it really implausible to think he's going to Russia to smooth over some troubles with ExxonMobil's projects there?
  #2608  
Old 03-21-2017, 11:11 PM
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Trump sicced his lawyers on a teenage girl whose website had images of kittens scratching a picture of Trump.
http://observer.com/2017/03/trump-ce...en-punch-site/
  #2609  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:24 AM
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Trump sicced his lawyers on a teenage girl whose website had images of kittens scratching a picture of Trump.
http://observer.com/2017/03/trump-ce...en-punch-site/
Judging from the article the lawsuit is over the unauthorized use of Trump's name and image. Does that have any possible legal merit? He's a public figure by any definition.

Is he going to send cease and desist letters to media outlets telling them they can't use his name or image in news reports he doesn't like?

Or is this just another example of Trump trying to crush somebody who annoyed him through legal costs even though he doesn't have a valid case?
  #2610  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:36 AM
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Or is this just another example of Trump trying to crush somebody who annoyed him through legal costs even though he doesn't have a valid case?
This, I think. In any case the Streisand effect from this is going to be yuge. Big league.

I give it a week before there are similar sites all over the web hosted on servers outside of the US.
  #2611  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:40 AM
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In any case the Streisand effect from this is going to be yuge. Big league.
Not really.

Given the amount of attention paid to every single thing that Trump says and does, i don't think the Streisand Effect is even relevant to this or any other situation that he's involved with.
  #2612  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:43 AM
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Not really.

Given the amount of attention paid to every single thing that Trump says and does, i don't think the Streisand Effect is even relevant to this or any other situation that he's involved with.
It will cause a lot of people who never would have thought about making a website where you can bat a picture of Trump around with kitten paws to think about doing it now. That is the Streisand effect.
  #2613  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:47 AM
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But the principle still doesn't work in Trump's case.

The whole Streisand Effect revolves around the idea that an attempt to suppress publicity ends up leading to massively increased publicity. Whether or not more people think about creating stupid little Trump-bashing websites, it is basically impossible for Trump to get any more publicity than he already has. Hence my argument that it makes no sense to talk about a Streisand Effect in this case.
  #2614  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:50 AM
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It's an extension of the term you pedantic twit. It has also come to mean any case where making a fuss about something causes you to get even more of what you're fussing about.
  #2615  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:54 AM
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Yeah, this will lead to heaps more people making fun of Trump, because no-one except this one girl from San Francisco was doing that before!

Last edited by mhendo; 03-22-2017 at 12:54 AM.
  #2616  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:55 AM
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No it will lead to heaps more people making websites where you can bat his image around with kitten paws.
  #2617  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:13 AM
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Trump sicced his lawyers on a teenage girl whose website had images of kittens scratching a picture of Trump.
http://observer.com/2017/03/trump-ce...en-punch-site/
Well, it is obvious that the kittens were Meowslim terrorists.
  #2618  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:50 AM
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Brigitte Gabriel, founder of anti-Muslim organization ACT for America, posted that she was going to be in a White House meeting, and asked her followers for topics she could discuss. When asked about it, the White House (heh, I accidentally typed "Shite") denied that they had any knowledge of her. Until she posted pictures of herself at the White House. At which point the White House commenting.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewir...-meeting-claim
  #2619  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:54 AM
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I'm beginning to enjoy this presidency now, just because it looks like it won't last long.
I mean, I know there aren't many ways for a term to end prematurely, but it's a shitstorm already with just self-inflicted wounds. What's going to happen when real events (dear boy) occur?

Hope this doesn't make me complacent though.

Last edited by Mijin; 03-22-2017 at 01:55 AM.
  #2620  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:55 AM
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Not really.

Given the amount of attention paid to every single thing that Trump says and does, i don't think the Streisand Effect is even relevant to this or any other situation that he's involved with.
Behold the Streisand effect

site's traffic explodes after Trump tries to shut it down

Quote:
Good job, Mr. Trump! It seems you were as successful convincing Lucy as you were threatening holdouts on the healthcare bill. After you met with them today, even more GOP congresscritters said they were a “no.”

Likewise, until you sent your attack dogs to threaten a young woman, her website had received fewer than 2,000 visits. But since news broke about your ham-handed approach, nearly 40,000 more people have had a blast batting your hateful mug around. Go Lucy!
  #2621  
Old 03-22-2017, 08:24 AM
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I'm beginning to enjoy this presidency now, just because it looks like it won't last long.

I mean, I know there aren't many ways for a term to end prematurely, but it's a shitstorm already with just self-inflicted wounds. What's going to happen when real events (dear boy) occur?
What's going to happen is things will get worse for most people and Donald Trump will still be President.

There is no indication whatsoever that the Republicans will entertain impeachment for any reason. Trump can screw up every week, he can literaly set fire to the Oval Office, whatever. At every step of the way the Republicans have made a few "tut-tut" noises and gone along with it.

If the GOP has any intent at all of doing the decent thing, please explain to me why they haven't already. They could impeach him tomorrow on the basis of the "emoluments clause," since he's still cheerfully doing business with foreign governments.
  #2622  
Old 03-22-2017, 08:53 AM
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What's going to happen is things will get worse for most people and Donald Trump will still be President.

There is no indication whatsoever that the Republicans will entertain impeachment for any reason. Trump can screw up every week, he can literaly set fire to the Oval Office, whatever. At every step of the way the Republicans have made a few "tut-tut" noises and gone along with it.

If the GOP has any intent at all of doing the decent thing, please explain to me why they haven't already. They could impeach him tomorrow on the basis of the "emoluments clause," since he's still cheerfully doing business with foreign governments.
Because he is currently working with them. He is willing to sign the bills they want him to sign, he nominated the SC justice they wanted him to nominate, he is signing EO's they want to have written.

Once that stops, once he balks at them, that's when the GOP will start to look into removing him, and replacing him with a more ideological ally in Pence.

Personally, I don't see it happening until Gorsuch is confirmed, as there is no way that a SC justice can be confirmed while the nominating president is under impeachment, but after that, it may be fair game on him.

If he doesn't sign the healthcare bill, or the budget, or some other piece of legislation that the GOp puts in front of him, they no longer have a use for him, and may very well push him out.
  #2623  
Old 03-22-2017, 09:49 AM
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Gee, suddenly I have an idea for a website. I can't divulge the details, but it involves a bunch of cute kittens and a litter box filled with pictures of Donald Trump....
  #2624  
Old 03-22-2017, 09:54 AM
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But the principle still doesn't work in Trump's case.

The whole Streisand Effect revolves around the idea that an attempt to suppress publicity ends up leading to massively increased publicity. Whether or not more people think about creating stupid little Trump-bashing websites, it is basically impossible for Trump to get any more publicity than he already has. Hence my argument that it makes no sense to talk about a Streisand Effect in this case.
That's why the principle is named after some hitherto-unknown woman who lived in absolute obscurity before the incident that inspired the term.
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  #2625  
Old 03-22-2017, 10:09 AM
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That's why the principle is named after some hitherto-unknown woman who lived in absolute obscurity before the incident that inspired the term.
Well, I for one had never even heard of Gail Streisand before seeing an aerial photo of her house...
  #2626  
Old 03-22-2017, 10:23 AM
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Well, well, well.

Quote:
Paul Manafort’s plan to ‘greatly benefit Putin government’
Manafort proposed in a confidential strategy plan as early as June 2005 that he would influence politics, business dealings and news coverage inside the United States, Europe and the former Soviet republics to benefit the Putin government, even as U.S.-Russia relations under Republican President George W. Bush grew worse. Manafort pitched the plans to Russian aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska, a close Putin ally with whom Manafort eventually signed a $10 million annual contract beginning in 2006, according to interviews with several people familiar with payments to Manafort and business records obtained by the AP. Manafort and Deripaska maintained a business relationship until at least 2009, according to one person familiar with the work.

“We are now of the belief that this model can greatly benefit the Putin Government if employed at the correct levels with the appropriate commitment to success,” Manafort wrote in the 2005 memo to Deripaska. The effort, Manafort wrote, “will be offering a great service that can re-focus, both internally and externally, the policies of the Putin government.”

...

Manafort told Deripaska in 2005 that he was pushing policies as part of his work in Ukraine “at the highest levels of the U.S. government — the White House, Capitol Hill and the State Department,” according to the documents. He also said he had hired a “leading international law firm with close ties to President Bush to support our client’s interests,” but he did not identify the firm. Manafort also said he was employing unidentified legal experts for the effort at leading universities and think tanks, including Duke University, New York University and the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

Manafort did not disclose details about the lobbying work to the Justice Department during the period the contract was in place.

Under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, people who lobby in the U.S. on behalf of foreign political leaders or political parties must provide detailed reports about their actions to the department. Willfully failing to register is a felony and can result in up to five years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000...
So how many foreign agents (who have not disclosed their work to the US government) is that that Trump's had advising him in the past year?

ETA: It should also be noted that the Russian businessman for whom Manafort was working was accusing Manafort, last year, of fraud and threatening to sue him...until Trump secured the nomination.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 03-22-2017 at 10:27 AM.
  #2627  
Old 03-22-2017, 10:26 AM
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How many foreign agents who worked to destabilize the previous (Republican) President's foreign policy... is more accurate phrasing, I think.
  #2628  
Old 03-22-2017, 10:27 AM
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Well, well, well.



So how many foreign agents (who have not disclosed their work to the US government) is that that Trump's had advising him in the past year?
The GOP is in power. All is forgiven.
  #2629  
Old 03-22-2017, 10:30 AM
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I don't know if that link is causing problems for anyone else, but when I click on it now, I don't get the story.

Here's another link to the same story
.
  #2630  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:42 PM
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"Ah, Paul! Good timing, your bus will be here in a minute!"
"I'm taking a bus somewhere?"
"Well, not, exactly...."
  #2631  
Old 03-22-2017, 12:55 PM
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Is it really implausible to think he's going to Russia to smooth over some troubles with ExxonMobil's projects there?
Not at all, but that's tangential to what I wrote about.
  #2632  
Old 03-22-2017, 01:46 PM
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"Ah, Paul! Good timing, your bus will be here in a minute!"
"I'm taking a bus somewhere?"
"Well, not, exactly...."
I'm thinking Manafort shouldn't check the stability of his balcony railings any time in the near future.
  #2633  
Old 03-22-2017, 02:27 PM
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"Ah, Paul! Good timing, your bus will be here in a minute!"
"I'm taking a bus somewhere?"
"Well, not, exactly...."
In Putinist Russia, bus takes you!
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  #2634  
Old 03-22-2017, 02:34 PM
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Jeffrey Epstein is a former Big Deal on Wall Street. He managed people's portfolios, but only if the portfolio was worth at least a billion dollars. He was a big contributor to campaign funds. And he was a partier, who hosted parties where Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew, and Donald Trump were attendees. But Jeffrey Epstein is also a pedophile with a penchant for teenaged girls. Federal prosecutors had an 82-page prosecution memo and a 53-page indictment ready to go, but the federal prosecutor for Southern Florida declined to prosecute him in exchange for his pleading guilty to a single state charge that resulted in his serving 13 months in jail and registering as a sex offender. The former police chief for Palm Beach thinks that he got off too easily.

And who was the federal prosecutor who declined to file federal charges? Alexander Acosta. Trump's nominee for Secretary of Labor.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...321-story.html

Last edited by Rick Kitchen; 03-22-2017 at 02:35 PM.
  #2635  
Old 03-22-2017, 03:14 PM
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I love the recent editorial from the Wall Street Journal.

Prize quote from the article about Trumps asinine wiretapping claims:

Quote:
He has offered no evidence for his claim, and a parade of intelligence officials, senior Republicans and Democrats have since said they have seen no such evidence. Yet the President clings to his assertion like a drunk to an empty gin bottle, rolling out his press spokesman to make more dubious claims.
  #2636  
Old 03-22-2017, 06:39 PM
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I love the recent editorial from the Wall Street Journal.

Prize quote from the article about Trumps asinine wiretapping claims:
Now House Intelligence Committee Chairman Nunes is spilling the beans that Trump and his aides may have had their conversations monitored during normal eavesdropping of conversations with foreign officials.

Now, you and I know that this is not the same thing as wiretapping Trump Tower. But you can just bet that this will muddy the waters, and the WH and all Trump's minions will be crowing "See?! See!? Told ya!!!"

And I hate that the House Intelligence Committee is being run by a Trump ass-licking toady.
  #2637  
Old 03-22-2017, 06:59 PM
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Now, you and I know that this is not the same thing as wiretapping Trump Tower. But you can just bet that this will muddy the waters, and the WH and all Trump's minions will be crowing "See?! See!? Told ya!!!"
.
"The Government is wiretapping me!"

"No, the government is wiretapping foreign criminals, and they happened to catch you talking to one of them."

"See!! I told you so!!"


Does not really work for me. Probably will fool the Trumpsters though.
  #2638  
Old 03-22-2017, 07:03 PM
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As I posted elsewhere;

I would expect you would need to have all your forms filled out in quintuplicate, all your ducks in orderly rows, all your i's dotted and t's crossed before you spark a Constitutional Crisis by arresting the President of the United States and half his staff (and maybe a few members of Congress) for Treason.
  #2639  
Old 03-22-2017, 07:12 PM
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"The Government is wiretapping me!"

"No, the government is wiretapping foreign criminals, and they happened to catch you talking to one of them."

"See!! I told you so!!"


Does not really work for me. Probably will fool the Trumpsters though.
Yep.
  #2640  
Old 03-22-2017, 07:17 PM
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I love the recent editorial from the Wall Street Journal.
Charles Krauthammer and Cal Thomas have been writing editorials along those lines too. If he's lost the WSJ now too, it's all over except for Hannity.
  #2641  
Old 03-22-2017, 08:22 PM
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As I posted elsewhere;

I would expect you would need to have all your forms filled out in quintuplicate, all your ducks in orderly rows, all your i's dotted and t's crossed before you spark a Constitutional Crisis by arresting the President of the United States and half his staff (and maybe a few members of Congress) for Treason.
I'm starting to agree with Stephanie Miller: is there something stronger than treason we can charge them with?
  #2642  
Old 03-22-2017, 08:47 PM
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Junior tries to deflect attention from the short-fingered sociopathic by behaving even more stupidly than daddy.
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“You use a terrorist attack on our city to attack London’s Mayor for your own political gain. You’re a disgrace,” [M.P. Wes] Streeting wrote.
...
The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment. But later on Wednesday Trump Jr wrote in an email to the New York Times: “I’m not going to comment on every tweet I send.”
  #2643  
Old 03-22-2017, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
"The Government is wiretapping me!"

"No, the government is wiretapping foreign criminals, and they happened to catch you talking to one of them."

"See!! I told you so!!"


Does not really work for me. Probably will fool the Trumpsters though.
Hell, it fooled the Big Cheeto his ownself:
Quote:
...
Trump said he regarded Nunes’s disclosures as validation of his widely discredited claim that he was the illegal target of a wiretapping operation last fall ordered by President Barack Obama. Asked whether he felt vindicated, Trump said during a brief public appearance at the White House: “I somewhat do. I must tell you I somewhat do. I very much appreciated the fact that they found what they found.”
...
Cite

VINDICATED!!
  #2644  
Old 03-22-2017, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jsc1953 View Post
Now House Intelligence Committee Chairman Nunes is spilling the beans that Trump and his aides may have had their conversations monitored during normal eavesdropping of conversations with foreign officials.

Now, you and I know that this is not the same thing as wiretapping Trump Tower. But you can just bet that this will muddy the waters, and the WH and all Trump's minions will be crowing "See?! See!? Told ya!!!"

And I hate that the House Intelligence Committee is being run by a Trump ass-licking toady.
So is the Senate Intel Committee chair, Richard Burr, who was on the Trump campaign staff, as well.
  #2645  
Old 03-23-2017, 01:02 AM
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Tillerson said he couldn't attend the meeting of foreign ministers because he had a conflict in his schedule that required him to go to his master's master in Moscow.

So NATO said, "No biggie, we'll reschedule."

Your move, Trump.
  #2646  
Old 03-23-2017, 02:18 AM
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The GOP is in power. All is forgiven.
"Good Ol' Putin"?
  #2647  
Old 03-23-2017, 02:20 AM
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"Good Ol' Putin"?
Grabber Of Pussies.
  #2648  
Old 03-23-2017, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Tillerson said he couldn't attend the meeting of foreign ministers because he had a conflict in his schedule that required him to go to his master's master in Moscow.

So NATO said, "No biggie, we'll reschedule."

Your move, Trump.
Just for accuracy, Trump wants Tillerson around for a planned meeting with the Chinese President, which is due at the same time as the NATO meeting. And I could understand that. The Russian trip was planned for after the NATO meeting, and it was the 'eye' test (not going to NATO, but then seeing Russia before making a NATO visit) that made it a poor show.

Now if NATO reschedules about the time that Tillerson had planned to go to Russia...well, that would be interesting.

Press on.

Last edited by The Stainless Steel Rat; 03-23-2017 at 07:43 AM.
  #2649  
Old 03-23-2017, 01:16 PM
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So, it turns out this entire Trump presidency has actually been an brilliant practical joke pulled off with Chapelle-esque style and verve as a career comeback move by Chevy Chase looking to reclaim his chair on the "Weekend Update" desk from Colin Jost:

"Trump defends wild claims: 'I'm president, and you're not'".

Stranger
  #2650  
Old 03-23-2017, 01:33 PM
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So, it turns out this entire Trump presidency has actually been an brilliant practical joke pulled off with Chapelle-esque style and verve as a career comeback move by Chevy Chase looking to reclaim his chair on the "Weekend Update" desk from Colin Jost:

"Trump defends wild claims: 'I'm president, and you're not'".

Stranger
I can't wait for the part when Mike Pence says "KellyAnne, you ignorant slut." That gets me every time!
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