Straight Dope Message Board

[Evil Economist]

I get up every morning and read the news with glee. Watching those corrupt assholes go down will make it all worth while. Now I know how the hippies felt in 1974. 6801

[El_Kabong]

Originally Posted by Evil Economist

I get up every morning and read the news with glee. Watching those corrupt assholes go down will make it all worth while. Now I know how the hippies felt in 1974.

Not until you fire up a joint, you won't. 6802

[Defensive Indifference]

Originally Posted by Channing Idaho Banks

They're going up the ladder.

And. who is "up the ladder" from the CFO? 6803

[j666]

Originally Posted by Malleus, Incus, Stapes!

Call me crazy, but maybe- just hear me out- maybe he's only finding wrongdoing on one side because that's the side that's doing the wrong.

Oh, I doubt that, but I will defend risk-based investigations and prosecutions, and we are at greater risk from crimes committed the "side" that is currently running the government.

And stop using "side", dammit, this isn't a football game; we are talking about political parties, only one of which has admitted that the Party is more important than the country. (That directed at news organizations, not you) 6804

[andros]

"Rudy, it's Don. I've decided to flip. That gets me immunity, right? Then we can go back to talking about my electrical college win, right?" 6805

[elucidator]

Originally Posted by Evil Economist

I get up every morning and read the news with glee. Watching those corrupt assholes go down will make it all worth while. Now I know how the hippies felt in 1974.

Tired, depressed, and exhausted. If you had gangrene in one of your toes and had to hack it off with an ax, would you celebrate? 6806

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by elucidator

Tired, depressed, and exhausted. If you had gangrene in one of your toes and had to hack it off with an ax, would you celebrate?

To be honest (and possibly too graphic) my late husband did, in fact, have gangrene in his big toe (it was black as a lump of coal right before the surgery), and by the time the doc amputated it, we were indeed celebrating. (A year later that leg was amputated-- not exactly cause for celebration, but it had to happen to save his life.)

Didn't hack it off with an axe, however.

So, yeah, I'm celebrating. 6807

[running coach]

Originally Posted by elucidator

Tired, depressed, and exhausted. If you had gangrene in one of your toes and had to hack it off with an ax, would you celebrate?

Sure would. Because no more gangrene.
Though I doubt I'd be dancing. 6808

[Derleth]

Originally Posted by elucidator

Tired, depressed, and exhausted. If you had gangrene in one of your toes and had to hack it off with an ax, would you celebrate?

I'd be happy that the infection hadn't become septic and spread irreversibly to all of my systems.

On a lighter note, a little ditty has been running (ha!) through my head:

And now they're flipping, flipping, faster than lightning.
That is, you see, the smart strategy!
And all the flippers gonna give testimony
Give information, on their crime boss!

6809

[j666]

Originally Posted by j666

I have five dollars cash American that says Cohen turns back and says the "candidate for federal office" was Pence.

Well, that's weird.

Vice President Pence Now Being Investigated For Campaign Fraud
Fair warning, there is no substance to this blog post, little but speculation and unsupported statements, but still.

Originally Posted by friedo

None of this makes the least bit of sense. Read the criminal information on Cohen. The crimes he is accused of (aside from the tax evasion and bank fraud) are all related to the Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal payoffs, and those payoffs were directed by and reimbursed by Donald Trump.

You are arguing that something in this administration is not likely because it does not make sense?
Really?

Not to push a joke too far, but do we have any evidence other than Cohen's less than reliable or unambiguous word that Trump directed the payoff? The contents of the safe might shed light on this, or might only establish that he was aware of it. 6810

[simster]

Originally Posted by j666

Well, that's weird.

Vice President Pence Now Being Investigated For Campaign Fraud
Fair warning, there is no substance to this blog post, little but speculation and unsupported statements, but still.

You are arguing that something in this administration is not likely because it does not make sense?
Really?

Not to push a joke too far, but do we have any evidence other than Cohen's less than reliable or unambiguous word that Trump directed the payoff? The contents of the safe might shed light on this, or might only establish that he was aware of it.

I thought later in the document they clarified that 'candidate for federal office' then became president.

Secondly - Pence was never a 'candidate'. 6811

[Ike Witt]

Originally Posted by Defensive Indifference

And. who is "up the ladder" from the CFO?

CEO. _{then presumably the CDO, CCO, CBO and finally CAO.} 6812

[JohnT]

All right, that earned a chuckle. Good job! 6813

[asahi]

Originally Posted by andros

"Rudy, it's Don. I've decided to flip. That gets me immunity, right? Then we can go back to talking about my electrical college win, right?"

No, Don, I think we should stick with truth isn't truth. 6814

[SteveG1]

Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves

Not enough. She voted to convict on 8 counts.

The silver lining is, when there is a mistrial (as opposed to acquittal or conviction) the STAES can retry cases for the same or very similar crimes. So this Trumpy juror may well have given the states all the rope they will use to hang the crooked fucker.

Example: California could prosecute the separate act of conspiracy bank fraud because Manafort has never been prosecuted and convicted or acquitted of that charge.

There was also a hung jury on the four bank fraud charges for his dealings with the Federal Savings Bank in Illinois. The state’s double jeopardy law also allows a second state prosecution after a mistrial.

If Trump pardons Manafort on the charges from this month’s federal case alone, then he would still face prosecution in New York, Illinois, California Virginia.



And now, Grassley and Graham are making noises that they will support Trum in firng Sessions and appointing a more obedient stooge who would in turn fire Meuller ... BUT they want to wait until AFTER the "mid terms". 6815

[andros]

Originally Posted by asahi

No, Don, I think we should stick with truth isn't truth.

"Yeah, that's good. That's deep. All my haters won't be smart enough to understand that, of course. Because they're haters." 6816

[j666]

Originally Posted by simster

I thought later in the document they clarified that 'candidate for federal office' then became president.

Secondly - Pence was never a 'candidate'.

Cohen used the phrase "candidate for federal office"; the legal filing used a phrase something like "Individual-1, who later became the president of the United States".

There are two elected federal offices, president and vice-president. They run on the same ticket - against the expressed intent of the founding fathers, btw - but they are separate offices and I will argue that both people on the ticket are candidates.

The phrase "a candidate for federal office" - again, not part of the legal document - is somewhat odd, and can apply to Pence as well as Trump.

Pence never made sense as a running mate; people who like Pence certainly weren't going to vote for HRC or Bernie.

Pence is exactly the type of person most susceptible to threats and blackmail - he would care about his reputation, and that reputation depends on traditional morality that politicians seem to have such trouble maintaining.

Pence is clearly morally compromised - he ran on the ticket with a known philanderer* and sexual predator.
(*I can, and have, looked past that, but Pence should not have been able to.)

So, Mannafort selected Pence as running mate specifically to blackmail him into performing dirty-tricks and/or set him up as a fall guy should the need arise, and Cohen signalled that that he will return that serve, if he is paid half a million dollars. [Imagine me wildly circling Venn diagrams at this point.]

Now, if you will excuse me, I have come up with a theory to explain what is going on with Sessions. It's almost as if this tweet storm isn't intended to distract us from something worse. 6817

[JohnT]

Dude, it's Trump. Why are you wasting bandwidth in this attempt to convince yourself it's not? 6818

[Sunny Daze]

Well, don't stop there - what's the theory!

ETA: Is that what he's doing? It's not working. Dude - it's Trump. 6819

[tripthicket]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Dude, it's Trump.

Originally Posted by Sunny Daze

Dude - it's Trump.

The new shorthand for explaining the latest hourly example of modern political insanity? 'Cause a calming mantra it ain't. 6820

[j666]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Dude, it's Trump. Why are you wasting bandwidth in this attempt to convince yourself it's not?

I want to win, or lose, five dollars?

As for Sessions, I loathe that miserable elf so much that my reality cannot accommodate honorable behavior, such as standiing up to a bully and respecting the rule of law, on his part.

Oh, dear heavens, Pence advised relying on rumor and gossip for news. 6821

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by j666

As for Sessions, I loathe that miserable elf so much that my reality cannot accommodate honorable behavior, such as standiing up to a bully and respecting the rule of law, on his part.

Personally, I suspect that he's one of the sources that the FBI had against Trump, from when they opened their investigation.

I'll grant that, if he had any part to play in the policy to arrest people who made lawful asylum requests, he's still a criminal. But it seems to be limited to specific topics, and in other areas he's still a "by-the-book" law keeper. 6822

[China Guy]

When all of these Russian contacts started hitting the press with Manafort 2 years ago, Pence was really quick to try distance himself. My WAG is Pence had some contact that was not reported and/or was privy in some way to getting Russian dirt on Hillary without flagging it to the FBI. It sure would be a two-fer to take down both Trump and Pence, and the Presidency passes to the Democratic speaker of the house post mid-terms. Of course, the partisan Republicans out there will fight this tooth and nail. It's one thing to have Pence replace The Donald, it's another thing entirely if the torch passes outside the party. 6823

[steatopygia]

Originally Posted by China Guy

When all of these Russian contacts started hitting the press with Manafort 2 years ago, Pence was really quick to try distance himself. My WAG is Pence had some contact that was not reported and/or was privy in some way to getting Russian dirt on Hillary without flagging it to the FBI. It sure would be a two-fer to take down both Trump and Pence, and the Presidency passes to the Democratic speaker of the house post mid-terms. Of course, the partisan Republicans out there will fight this tooth and nail. It's one thing to have Pence replace The Donald, it's another thing entirely if the torch passes outside the party.

From day one, it has seemed to me that they have Pence on the sidelines, quiet and protected, for the inevitable removal of Trump.

The only weird thing about that, is the puppy dog eyes Pence makes at Trump. I would have thought the instructions were to appear independent. 6824

[Toxgoddess]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Personally, I suspect that he's one of the sources that the FBI had against Trump, from when they opened their investigation.

I'll grant that, if he had any part to play in the policy to arrest people who made lawful asylum requests, he's still a criminal. But it seems to be limited to specific topics, and in other areas he's still a "by-the-book" law keeper.

Sessions is the Severus Snape of the Trump Administration. Kind of an asshole, with a loathesome personal philosophy, a taste for cruelty, and an initial alliance with evil. But in the ongoing fight against He Who Must Not Be Named, he's on the side of the good guys. Probably for the wrong reasons, but he's got more guts than a lot of them and he's doing his part. 6825

[Ann Hedonia]

Originally Posted by j666

I want to win, or lose, five dollars?

As for Sessions, I loathe that miserable elf so much that my reality cannot accommodate honorable behavior, such as standiing up to a bully and respecting the rule of law, on his part.

I totally get that. It's like stumbling on a few minutes of redeeming social value in a snuff film, isn't it? 6826

[enipla]

Originally Posted by steatopygia

From day one, it has seemed to me that they have Pence on the sidelines, quiet and protected, for the inevitable removal of Trump.

The only weird thing about that, is the puppy dog eyes Pence makes at Trump. I would have thought the instructions were to appear independent.

Uh. The House and Senate has had PLENTY of ammo to remove Trump and install Pence. If that was their plan.

If that was their plan, I suspect they might be as surprised as the rest of us that Trump supporters would gladly drag them out in the middle of the night and lynch them from the nearest lamp post. 6827

[Fiveyearlurker]

An aide to Roger Stone has been granted immunity. 6828

[running coach]

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker

An aide to Roger Stone has been granted immunity.

I'm starting to understand why the Howling Yam is an anti-vaxxer. 6829

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess

Sessions is the Severus Snape of the Trump Administration. Kind of an asshole, with a loathesome personal philosophy, a taste for cruelty, and an initial alliance with evil. But in the ongoing fight against He Who Must Not Be Named, he's on the side of the good guys. Probably for the wrong reasons, but he's got more guts than a lot of them and he's doing his part.

I think you nailed it. 6830

[Fiveyearlurker]

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess

Sessions is the Severus Snape of the Trump Administration. Kind of an asshole, with a loathesome personal philosophy, a taste for cruelty, and an initial alliance with evil. But in the ongoing fight against He Who Must Not Be Named, he's on the side of the good guys. Probably for the wrong reasons, but he's got more guts than a lot of them and he's doing his part.

There does have to be some reason this dude has stayed on in the face of all reason. 6831

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker

There does have to be some reason this dude has stayed on in the face of all reason.

Sessions has his own agenda: he wants to do away with civil rights for minorities. He is of the Old South, and he is on a mission. That's why he'll never resign. He won't let thump or anyone stop him. 6832

[steatopygia]

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker

There does have to be some reason this dude has stayed on in the face of all reason.

Well there is this whole very likely to get to be president thing. 6833

[Aspenglow]

Originally Posted by steatopygia

Well there is this whole very likely to get to be president thing.

He's on a mission. From God. 6834

[j666]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

Personally, I suspect that he's one of the sources that the FBI had against Trump, from when they opened their investigation.

Ah, thank you; that's low and self-righteous enough, and now it looks like his efforts are coming to fruition. He's not standing up now because bullying and subverting the rule of law are wrong, he's doing it because he can get away with it.

Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia

I totally get that. It's like stumbling on a few minutes of redeeming social value in a snuff film, isn't it?

Worse.

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess

Sessions is the Severus Snape of the Trump Administration. Kind of an asshole, with a loathesome personal philosophy, a taste for cruelty, and an initial alliance with evil. But in the ongoing fight against He Who Must Not Be Named, he's on the side of the good guys. Probably for the wrong reasons, but he's got more guts than a lot of them and he's doing his part.

You wrong Snape.

"An aide to Roger Stone has been granted immunity. "
We're gonna run out of popcorn. 6835

[ThelmaLou]

Originally Posted by Toxgoddess

Sessions is the Severus Snape of the Trump Administration. Kind of an asshole, with a loathesome personal philosophy, a taste for cruelty, and an initial alliance with evil. But in the ongoing fight against He Who Must Not Be Named, he's on the side of the good guys. Probably for the wrong reasons, but he's got more guts than a lot of them and he's doing his part.

Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker

There does have to be some reason this dude has stayed on in the face of all reason.

Toxgoddess was talking about Sessions. The following two replies seem to be about Pence.

Originally Posted by steatopygia

Well there is this whole very likely to get to be president thing.

Originally Posted by Aspenglow

He's on a mission. From God.

Although both Sessions and Pence are on missions from God. 6836

[steatopygia]

Originally Posted by ThelmaLou

Toxgoddess was talking about Sessions. The following two replies seem to be about Pence.



Although both Sessions and Pence are on missions from God.

You are right, I was talking about Pence.

I need a daily program. 6837

[JohnT]

Ex-Trump World Tower doorman releases 'catch-and-kill' contract about alleged Trump affair

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/24/polit...ami/index.html

Guy was signed to a contract which prevented him from telling his knowledge of a Trump love child. Because of Peckers cooperation, he has been released from the agreement. 6838

[Voyager]

Originally Posted by running coach

I'm starting to understand why the Howling Yam is an anti-vaxxer.

This made my day. 6839

[davidm]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Ex-Trump World Tower doorman releases 'catch-and-kill' contract about alleged Trump affair

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/24/polit...ami/index.html

Guy was signed to a contract which prevented him from telling his knowledge of a Trump love child. Because of Peckers cooperation, he has been released from the agreement.

When it rains it pours. 6840

[Buck Godot]

Since Tuesday, we have the Manafort verdict, the Cohen plea, New York starting an investigation into the Trump foundation, Pecker, Weisselberg, and Andrew Miller granted immunity. This is way to much happening simultaneously at once for it just to be a coincidence.

I wonder if they had all of these held in reserve and were just waiting for the Manafort verdict to trigger it. If so there may be more coming next week. Buckle your seatbelts. 6841

[Happy Lendervedder]

Originally Posted by Buck Godot

Since Tuesday, we have the Manafort verdict, the Cohen plea, New York starting an investigation into the Trump foundation, Pecker, Weisselberg, and Andrew Miller granted immunity. This is way to much happening simultaneously at once for it just to be a coincidence.

I wonder if they had all of these held in reserve and were just waiting for the Manafort verdict to trigger it. If so there may be more coming next week. Buckle your seatbelts.

It's gotten so that I actually look forward to rolling over and checking my phone in the mornings now. 6842

[friedo]

Originally Posted by Buck Godot

Since Tuesday, we have the Manafort verdict, the Cohen plea, New York starting an investigation into the Trump foundation, Pecker, Weisselberg, and Andrew Miller granted immunity

New York has actually been investigating the Trump Foundation since 2016, and sued the Foundation, Trump, and the foundation's directors (who coincidentally also have the surname Trump) alleging unlawful political conduct, self-dealing, and tax issues. That case is ongoing.

The recent news is that New York is now also investigating the Trump Organization company over accounting issues, in particular how it accounted for its payments to Cohen regarding the hush money deals with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal. And probably a lot of other transactions. 6843

[elucidator]

Originally Posted by JohnT

Ex-Trump World Tower doorman releases 'catch-and-kill' contract about alleged Trump affair

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/24/polit...ami/index.html

Guy was signed to a contract which prevented him from telling his knowledge of a Trump love child. Because of Peckers cooperation, he has been released from the agreement.

Does he get to keep the money? 6844

[kaylasdad99]

Originally Posted by elucidator

Does he get to keep the money?

He probably does get to keep the money, as the agreement does not likely contain a provision calling for him to refund his $30,000 in the event that AMI walks away from the (amended) contract. He also doesn’t have to pay AMI a million dollars for telling the story to anyone else. 6845

[j666]

Why is a story involving consensual sex between adults worth more than one involving an extramarital child? 6846

[Vinyl Turnip]

Originally Posted by running coach

I'm starting to understand why the Howling Yam is an anti-vaxxer.

And hates dolphins. 6847

[Ruken]

This is the first I've encountered the term. I'm assuming it refers to paying for a story and for silence, then not publishing the story? 6848

[Celidin]

Originally Posted by j666

Why is a story involving consensual sex between adults worth more than one involving an extramarital child?

Maybe that's where Trump gets his "reputation" as a "great negotiator"? 6849

[Folacin]

Originally Posted by j666

Why is a story involving consensual sex between adults worth more than one involving an extramarital child?

Because the doorman agreed to a lesser amount.

Probably offered them both $10,000 to start and just kept raising it until they said 'OK'.

There is no Kelly Blue Book for standard hush money payoffs, after all. To many variables - how damaging, how much money do you have, how poor is the recipient, just a nightmare. 6850