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  #151  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:26 AM
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I think that Veidt is on Mars, being held captive by Manhattan. He's testing homemade spacesuits so that he can confront him. Maybe the cloned servants are being provided by Manhattan? Because if Veidt could create them himself, what would he need a spacesuit for (or rather, why would he have difficulty creating one)?
No idea what is supposed to be happening here but Irons is making it work.
  #152  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:27 AM
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It also occurred to me that there are several people active in the thread who have stated they haven't read the comics. Any input on how y'all would prefer discussion about that to be handled, at least how it relates to stuff aired on the show? I don't think we need "Game of Thrones" level separation of the two, because this isn't an adaptation of the original work, it's a continuation.
  #153  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:32 AM
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It also occurred to me that there are several people active in the thread who have stated they haven't read the comics. Any input on how y'all would prefer discussion about that to be handled, at least how it relates to stuff aired on the show? I don't think we need "Game of Thrones" level separation of the two, because this isn't an adaptation of the original work, it's a continuation.
You might as well tell us if we need it to understand the show. Put it in spoiler tags if you like but there's been a lot revealed already. Anybody that really wants to see the book without being spoiled shouldn't be watching the series until they do that.
  #154  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:45 AM
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Technically they've left themselves a little bit of wiggle room with respect to Jeremy Irons' character. We now know that he believes himself to be Veidt, and the servants do as well. But they were clever in having the character direct Ms. Vickers to skip the salutation on the letter while reading it aloud; there's a possibility that the Game Warden addressed the letter differently. Of course, that could have been done just for dramatic timing reasons, so the big name reveal didn't occur until the right moment.

There are only nine episodes, and we're a third of the way through. So perhaps it's not appropriate to look for Westworld-level hijinks and misdirections. If it's what seems the most likely scenario though -- Dr. Manhattan keeping Veidt a prisoner on a compound on Mars, Veidt trying to escape using the materials available to him -- then I have no idea what Manhattan's motivation might be.

I also think it's very plausible that all of the Jeremy Irons scenes so far are taking place in the past, relative to the events in Tulsa. The cakes would seem to indicate that we're seeing one episode each year. Veidt was last seen in public in 2007, declared dead in 2012 (according to this site: https://www.hbo.com/content/dam/hbod...lared-dead.pdf) So that gives them either 12 or 7 years to play with.
  #155  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:47 AM
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I don't mind the book references, as they seem necessary for the story to make any sense.

BTW anyone else suspect Senator Keene of planning the suicide bomber/attempted kidnapping? It seemed designed to raise his profile.

And what happened to the servant in the suit of armor? I don't think the show made it clear.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 11-04-2019 at 10:47 AM.
  #156  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:09 AM
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BTW anyone else suspect Senator Keene of planning the suicide bomber/attempted kidnapping? It seemed designed to raise his profile.

And what happened to the servant in the suit of armor? I don't think the show made it clear.
I think it very likely that Senator Keene was in on the bombing scheme. He gave himself up pretty readily. It's also very evocative of a similar scene in the comic.

The servant in the makeshift spacesuit made from the suit of armor apparently froze to death, after being launched by trebuchet and then presumably retrieved by the rope tied around his waist. The assumption is that he was flung out past the boundaries of wherever Veidt is being kept and that the suit made for him was inadequate to protect him from the cold. The obvious possibility is that this is a compound on Mars and the servant was being exposed to the natural Martian weather, but I suppose there are other possibilities: Antarctica, for example.

It's not clear why the trebuchet was necessary; it implies that there are walls that need to be cleared as well as a hostile environment outside.
  #157  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:29 AM
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I think that Veidt is on Mars, being held captive by Manhattan. He's testing homemade spacesuits so that he can confront him. Maybe the cloned servants are being provided by Manhattan? Because if Veidt could create them himself, what would he need a spacesuit for (or rather, why would he have difficulty creating one)?
Oh damn! I think you may be right. I was wondering what the space suit and the "Greater Beyond" was about. Makes sense if he's being imprisoned on Mars.
  #158  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:38 AM
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Yeah Keene is definitely no good.

I would watch a Jean Smart as "Laurie Juspeczyk FBI" series set in this world and love it.

The idea that Veidt is on Mars is genius and probably right.

Last edited by Quimby; 11-04-2019 at 11:39 AM.
  #159  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:44 AM
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Absolutely loved Jean Smart as Laurie Blake / Silk Spectre!
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No idea what is supposed to be happening here but Irons is making it work.
I agree with both of these comments. I'm loving this show.
  #160  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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I think it very likely that Senator Keene was in on the bombing scheme. He gave himself up pretty readily. It's also very evocative of a similar scene in the comic.

The servant in the makeshift spacesuit made from the suit of armor apparently froze to death, after being launched by trebuchet and then presumably retrieved by the rope tied around his waist. The assumption is that he was flung out past the boundaries of wherever Veidt is being kept and that the suit made for him was inadequate to protect him from the cold. The obvious possibility is that this is a compound on Mars and the servant was being exposed to the natural Martian weather, but I suppose there are other possibilities: Antarctica, for example.

It's not clear why the trebuchet was necessary; it implies that there are walls that need to be cleared as well as a hostile environment outside.
Thanks for the explanation. I'm wondering if Veidt has an endless supply of servants he can sacrifice to experiments like this or even worse, letting one burn up during his stage play. Or has he been there so long, he's getting frustrated and is willing to sacrifice them to figure out a way out? (And if he is on Mars and a prisoner of Doctor Manhattan, was the play meant to appeal to Doctor Manhattan?)
  #161  
Old 11-04-2019, 12:30 PM
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I really liked this episode. I liked Blake's snarkiness and badass bitchness. I also like how Angela wasn't the least bit fazed by any of it (at least externally). Two badass bitches going toe-to-toe is my kind of show.

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  #162  
Old 11-04-2019, 12:56 PM
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It only just occurred to me that somewhere between the comic and the show Laurie took her father's name.
  #163  
Old 11-04-2019, 05:41 PM
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Just watched the first three eps. I've never seen or read anything of the source material for this, and it's got some odd things going on. But I mainly want to say that Jean Smart is still hot at 68.
  #164  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:04 PM
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Oh, and my love for Silk Spectre II is confirmed by her insistence on the distinction between “hanged” and “hung.”
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  #165  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:20 AM
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Oh, and my love for Silk Spectre II is confirmed by her insistence on the distinction between “hanged” and “hung.”
"I've seen a man who was hung. This is different."
  #166  
Old 11-05-2019, 06:40 AM
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I seem to recall that at the end of the book, Dan and Laurie were expecting a baby. So I wonder if Agent Blake has grown up children.
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  #167  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:42 AM
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Another good episode. [Spoilers for Episode 4]

Can a Mod change the title of this thread to say that is has show spoilers? It started as a speculation thread long before the show aired but has become the de facto discussion thread.

We had cheeky allusions to both Batman's and Superman's origins. They have essentially confirmed Veidt is in space (but is is the Moon or mars?) and that scene on the boat was creepy as hell.

We have a new rich weirdo (who I am pretty sure bought the landing site of Veidt after his eventual escape from prison in the beginning of the episode).

I have no idea where this is going but I am enjoying the heck out of it.

Last edited by Quimby; 11-11-2019 at 11:42 AM.
  #168  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:30 PM
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We have a new rich weirdo (who I am pretty sure bought the landing site of Veidt after his eventual escape from prison in the beginning of the episode).
So are you thinking that the scene with the farmhouse couple is a flash-forward to the (near) future, when Veidt is finally successful with his escape? I'm not sure I agree, although I don't have any guesses as to what fell from the sky. Whatever it was, she knew exactly when and where it would fall.
  #169  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:44 PM
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I saw speculation in a recap someplace that the guy in the lubed-up bodysuit was Petey, the young FBI agent with Laurie. But Petey hasn't been in Tulsa before, I don't think, and that guy knew exactly where to go to find a storm drain just large enough to slide into.

As for Veidt's experiments with the trebuchet, in this episode, did he finally locate a hole in the shield around his prison?
  #170  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:02 PM
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So are you thinking that the scene with the farmhouse couple is a flash-forward to the (near) future, when Veidt is finally successful with his escape? I'm not sure I agree, although I don't have any guesses as to what fell from the sky. Whatever it was, she knew exactly when and where it would fall.


I was thinking it was the car.

Speaking of which, looks like Will may have had the strength to hang Judd. Also alludes to something happening in 3 days that Angela isn't going to like at all.


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  #171  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:44 PM
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So are you thinking that the scene with the farmhouse couple is a flash-forward to the (near) future, when Veidt is finally successful with his escape? I'm not sure I agree, although I don't have any guesses as to what fell from the sky. Whatever it was, she knew exactly when and where it would fall.
I think the Veidt scenes are not taking place in the same time frame as everything else. He keeps eating anniversary cakes so either the date never changes where he is or his story is supposed to take place over years and years. I could see either be the case given how weird it is. The fireball coming down is the culmination of all his work.
  #172  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:52 PM
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I think Veidt explicitly said last night that he'd been there for four years.
  #173  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:58 PM
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...speculation spoilers again, based on rumours so they may have come from people who have seen later episodes (select critics have seen up to 8 of the episodes), so I'm spoilering: (About Veidt)

SPOILER:

There are rumours going around the net that each episode is showing Veidt a year later. He went missing in 2012, that was episode 1. We are now in episode 4, its four years later, and its 2016. Next week will be episode 5, we will see Veidt in year 5 and it will be 2017. So in episode 7 Veidt will catch up with the timeline and will be in present day, which will be when the storylines begin to converge.
  #174  
Old 11-11-2019, 10:57 PM
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So are you thinking that the scene with the farmhouse couple is a flash-forward to the (near) future, when Veidt is finally successful with his escape? I'm not sure I agree, although I don't have any guesses as to what fell from the sky. Whatever it was, she knew exactly when and where it would fall.
I was thinking it was the car.
I don't think it was the car. For one thing, Lady Trieu bought the farm just to own the land where that thing landed and we know the car landed on the street.
  #175  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:27 PM
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...

We had cheeky allusions to both Batman's and Superman's origins. They have essentially confirmed Veidt is in space (but is is the Moon or mars?) and that scene on the boat was creepy as hell.
....
I missed the allusions.

Yeah, really creepy. Especially him throwing some back in.
  #176  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:44 AM
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I missed the allusions.

Yeah, really creepy. Especially him throwing some back in.
A farm couple who wants a baby has something from space crash onto their farm.

Laurie's talk in the car about how trauma from childhood is what makes people wear a mask and fight crime.
  #177  
Old 11-12-2019, 11:31 PM
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If you haven't read the original graphic novel, or would like a refresher, this video gives a good overview.

If you've only seen the movie version, this video explains the differences between movie and graphic novel.
  #178  
Old 11-13-2019, 12:16 AM
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I think it very likely that the Ozy sequences are occurring before the present day shown in the rest of the show. The fireball from space could very well be Veidt finally making it to earth. The timing is still odd, though. In the scene with the Clarks (just to make the allusion even more on the nose), if Trieu was buying their farm just so she would own the land where the meteorite hit, then it's a bit odd that she waited until the last possible second. Maybe she just has a flair for the dramatic. But she had to have known at least a few months earlier where exactly the thing was going to touch down, so she could start growing the baby, right?

So can Trieu see into the future, like Doc Manhattan could? Is there only one possible escape arc from the prison Veidt is in, and it ends in Tulsa? That seems unlikely, but maybe within the bounds of comic book logic.

Also, if one of Trieu's hoverdrones picked up and dropped off the car, why was the dropoff so closely coordinated with Blake's call to Dr. Manhattan? Could be as simple as Trieu owning and monitoring conversations on the Doc-Phones. It would be a neat trick to set up so much speculation about what Manhattan is doing and where his is, and then find out at the end that he really was offscreen for the whole series, and things attributed to him all had other explanations.

I'm strongly leaning toward the theory, though, that Trieu is the one who captured Veidt and is holding him prisoner. The unflattering statue and the baby-growing are pretty good clues.
  #179  
Old 11-13-2019, 05:16 AM
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The Veidt scenes have taken place one year apart each (hence the birthday cake with increasing numbers of candles); 4 years so far.
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  #180  
Old 11-13-2019, 06:15 AM
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The Veidt scenes have taken place one year apart each (hence the birthday cake with increasing numbers of candles); 4 years so far.
You state this as fact. Is it because you have confirmation?

I was assuming that the servants were celebrating the anniversary on a daily basis.
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  #181  
Old 11-13-2019, 07:55 AM
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I'll quote myself.
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I think Veidt explicitly said last night that he'd been there for four years.
  #182  
Old 11-13-2019, 08:01 AM
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Yes. That doesn’t mean that the individual scenes are taking place over a period of four years. It’s possible but it’s not necessary.
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  #183  
Old 11-13-2019, 08:11 AM
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You state this as fact. Is it because you have confirmation?

I was assuming that the servants were celebrating the anniversary on a daily basis.
No, I don't have confirmation, but it seemed very clear to me, especially after the last episode when he mentions 4 years. He didn't build that catapult in a day.
  #184  
Old 11-13-2019, 09:26 AM
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Yes. That doesn’t mean that the individual scenes are taking place over a period of four years. It’s possible but it’s not necessary.
That seems possible but also unlikely.
  #185  
Old 11-13-2019, 10:52 AM
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Yes. That doesn’t mean that the individual scenes are taking place over a period of four years. It’s possible but it’s not necessary.
I think it does because in every(?) scene he has been eating his Anniversary cake.
  #186  
Old 11-13-2019, 12:10 PM
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I think it does because in every(?) scene he has been eating his Anniversary cake.
As I said, I assumed that his quirky servants were celebrating the anniversary daily. I'm not arguing for that interpretation, but only that I don't think we have a definitive answer yet one way or the other.
  #187  
Old 11-13-2019, 12:34 PM
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BTW, the first time we saw them serving cake to him, did he practically choke on how vile it was?

This was when they mentioned using the honeycomb he provided.

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 11-13-2019 at 12:35 PM.
  #188  
Old 11-13-2019, 01:24 PM
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As I said, I assumed that his quirky servants were celebrating the anniversary daily. I'm not arguing for that interpretation, but only that I don't think we have a definitive answer yet one way or the other.
If it's daily, then the show is screwing with us -- the anniversary cake and "4 years" quote clearly point to 1 episode = 1 year (for the Veidt storyline). I suppose it could be something else, but IMO that would be dishonest storytelling.
  #189  
Old 11-14-2019, 03:17 PM
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But she had to have known at least a few months earlier where exactly the thing was going to touch down, so she could start growing the baby, right?
Well, Veidt has the ability to rapidly accelerate the growth a human-like baby, why can't Trieu?

Quote:
Also, if one of Trieu's hoverdrones picked up and dropped off the car, why was the dropoff so closely coordinated with Blake's call to Dr. Manhattan? Could be as simple as Trieu owning and monitoring conversations on the Doc-Phones.
I'm leaning toward Manhattan being responsible. The timing is too tight for Trieu to get all that done in time for Blake's phone call. You could also say that it implicates Trieu too much, but it could be a decent reason to get Angela the info that Reeves is there.

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As I said, I assumed that his quirky servants were celebrating the anniversary daily. I'm not arguing for that interpretation, but only that I don't think we have a definitive answer yet one way or the other.
That's my assumption as well. Veidt reacts to the cakes as if he's given one every day.
  #190  
Old 11-14-2019, 05:01 PM
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If he is not on Earth we don't really know how long a year is to him.

But yeah, my take is they are not "real" yearly anniversaries as we would think of them. The bizarre, fawning behavior of his servants makes me think they might just be flattering him or it's a made up occasion or something.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:06 PM
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Besides, he kills off his servers so regularly (or so it seems), how do we expect them to remember when the anniversary is?


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Old 11-14-2019, 05:15 PM
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Fishing for clones in a pond. Interesting system Dr. Manhattan has devised.
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  #193  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:18 PM
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Absolutely loved Jean Smart as Laurie Blake / Silk Spectre! And the car landing just in front of her (like a brick?) 40 seconds after the call ended, lol!

Laurie Blake, daughter of Edward Blake AKA The Comedian. I just made that connection.


I'm with Acsenray. I think the "anniversary" is just something programmed into the clones and it happens on a more or less daily basis. Even though Veidt may have been where he is for 4 years, I didn't get a sense of 4 years worth of time progressing over the scenes.


My theory is Veidt is being held by Dr Manhattan (else why have the play?) but I can't decide if Trieu is part of it (i.e. "clones") or is trying to rescue Trieu and the big clock she's building is somehow related.

And of course, who knows what all of this has to do with the Chief and Angela/Sister Night's extended family?
  #194  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:25 PM
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One thing about the cakes hasn't been mentioned yet. The number of candles changes in each episode: Episode 1 = one candle, Episode 2 = two candles, Episode 3 = three candles. We didn't get to see how many candles were in the Episode 4 cake, but that's also when Veidt said he had been there for four years.
  #195  
Old 11-16-2019, 10:35 PM
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Writers don't put coincidences like the cakes, number of candles, and "4 years" line together unless it's intentional. So it's either 1 episode = 1 year for Veidt, or the writers want us to think 1 episode = 1 year.

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  #196  
Old Yesterday, 08:59 PM
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I was wrong about the Episode 4 cake. We do, in fact, see it in the dining room where the massacre of the clones had taken place. It has a slice taken out (the same one that Veidt was eating earlier) and, guess what, it has four candles.
  #197  
Old Yesterday, 10:12 PM
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Friends of Nemo, lol!

Fantastic episode! Got to see the squid attack and fill in some of the aftermath (the Wade story was amazing). Some answers as well: verified that the Senator and Judd are in the Kalvary. Though the Senator wants Wade to believe it is for somewhat benevolent reasons. Of course having a recording of Veidt's confession not leaking after being shown to every Senator seems a bit odd.

Veidt creating a "Save me" message for.. Dr Manhattan (looked like the next word started with a D?) meaning maybe someone else put him on the moon?

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  #198  
Old Today, 01:12 AM
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Wade has the ability to know if the Senator was lying and so was not expecting to be left alone after getting Angela out of the way. I’m wondering if Angela’s confession was staged.

Also like the raid on the compound ... really Wade? Why go in until the back up you think you’ve called for arrived?
  #199  
Old Today, 08:39 AM
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Veidt creating a "Save me" message for.. Dr Manhattan (looked like the next word started with a D?) meaning maybe someone else put him on the moon?
Veidt is on A moon, just not THE moon. What appeared to be Jupiter was filling the sky. Judging by the icy landscape, I'd say he's on Europa.
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Old Today, 09:53 AM
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Someone mentioned last night that the survivors of the squid landing on NYC suffered "psychic" trauma. Are they referring to PTSD from being at the site of an event that killed three million or is this something more? (I assume this was covered in the books.)
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