Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-28-2019, 06:28 AM
davidm's Avatar
davidm is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Near Philadelphia PA, USA
Posts: 12,550
Well, that's disappointing.
__________________
Check out my t-shirt designs in Marketplace. https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...php?p=21131885
  #52  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:28 PM
TruCelt's Avatar
TruCelt is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 11,575
The last I checked, The Nazis were in favor only of Caucasian people, and would not be supporting a band of Mongolians. I do think this is a misinterpretation of the symbol.
  #53  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:14 AM
DinoR is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machine Elf View Post
The ring on the biker's finger (see pic at top of imgr link above) is rotated 45 degrees, like the Nazi swastika.
Except it's not a swastika. It is a cross pattée. The swastika has cross members at right angles to the four arms unlike the cross pattée.

The cross pattée does have some mental association with the Third Reich. The Iron Cross had a history as a Prussian later German military award. It also had other historical uses such as by the Knights Templar. Under the Nazis they redesigned the medal to include a swastika at the center of the cross used for the medal. After a break because of the association, and not having a military, a cross pattée became the identification symbol for the Bundeswehr in 1956. You can see it here on the Bundeswehr's homepage in the top left corner. It took a little longer to see an award based on the cross pattée to be reintroduced. That was not until 1980. The highest military award in the Bundeswehr looks like this. Like the Iron Cross before it the Cross of Honour has multiple orders all using the cross pattée as the base. Germany is not doing a very good job of implementing their laws against overt Nazi symbols if what is on that ring is one.

Then there is the Anti Defamation League take on the iron cross.
Quote:
In the United States, however, the Iron Cross also became one of several Nazi-era symbols adopted by outlaw bikers, more to signify rebellion or to shock than for any white supremacist ideology. By the early 2000s, this other use of the Iron Cross had spread from bikers to skateboarders and many extreme sports enthusiasts and became part of the logo of several different companies producing equipment and clothing for this audience. Consequently, the use of the Iron Cross in a non-racist context has greatly proliferated in the United States, to the point that an Iron Cross in isolation (i.e., without a superimposed swastika or without other accompanying hate symbols) cannot be determined to be a hate symbol. Care must therefore be used to correctly interpret this symbol in whatever context in which it may be found.
I'd suggest we not apply a more stringent test than the ADL uses to identify Nazis. Otherwise we get a lot of false positives. Those false positives would include labeling Angela Merkel a Nazi for being Chancellor of a country actively using the cross pattée.

So for context we have a motorcycle club involved in filming the video. Enlarging the shot of the ring I can read "choppers" written on it in English. That suggests a link to US non-racist uses of the imagery. In the absence of "other accompanying hate symbols," IMO we shouldn't jump to any conclusions. Maybe they just asked the band to show off their motorcycle club ring in return for participating in the video. Maybe they wanted to highlight the rebellious, not hate inspired, meaning sometimes attached to the Iron Cross.
  #54  
Old 11-05-2019, 05:51 AM
Terminus Est's Avatar
Terminus Est is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: The tropics
Posts: 7,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinoR View Post
Except it's not a swastika. It is a cross pattée. The swastika has cross members at right angles to the four arms unlike the cross pattée.
I don't know WTF you're looking at, but this: https://imgur.com/VLx8cyJ is most definitely a swastika
  #55  
Old 11-05-2019, 08:29 AM
davidm's Avatar
davidm is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Near Philadelphia PA, USA
Posts: 12,550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminus Est View Post
I don't know WTF you're looking at, but this: https://imgur.com/VLx8cyJ is most definitely a swastika
Exactly. There's no resemblance to an iron cross.
__________________
Check out my t-shirt designs in Marketplace. https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...php?p=21131885
  #56  
Old 11-05-2019, 08:41 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil's Avatar
FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Land of Cheese Coneys
Posts: 18,081
Well, the Hu do have that "Yuve Yuve" song smashing up the internet and satellite radio right now, so....
__________________
Posting From Above The Browns
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017