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Old 11-01-2019, 03:23 PM
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Cocktails with rye


One of my favorite bars announced a $5 cocktail special for Devilís River Rye Whiskey for November. $5 is a great price by Chicago standards.

I admit, Iím not an expert at all. What type of cocktails are commonly made with rye? This place has excellent burgers, so something that would complement a burger is ideal. Would I just get it mixed with coke like a Jack and Coke?
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Old 11-01-2019, 03:29 PM
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I have been told that rye is the proper whiskey to use in a Manhattan. To me, rye is a mild form of bourbon, which I used to drink for reasons that now make no sense to me.
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Old 11-01-2019, 03:34 PM
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Yes, a Manhattan is the standard classic cocktail that should be made with rye.

This is the recipe that has been passed down in my family from father to son for 2 generations:

chill a martini glass, add maraschino cherry (Luxardo if you have them, add them to the shopping list if you don't)

Put

3 oz rye
3/4 oz sweet vermouth
2 dashes bitters
lots of ice

in a shaker, shake, strain into the glass.
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Old 11-01-2019, 03:38 PM
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I have been told that rye is the proper whiskey to use in a Manhattan. To me, rye is a mild form of bourbon, which I used to drink for reasons that now make no sense to me.
Mild form of bourbon? Rye is typically more spicy than bourbon, while bourbon is sweeter and smoother. I guess depending on what defines "mild" to you, rye might fit because of its drier taste. But most people would switch your description.
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Old 11-01-2019, 03:44 PM
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Mild form of bourbon? Rye is typically more spicy than bourbon, while bourbon is sweeter and smoother. I guess depending on what defines "mild" to you, rye might fit because of its drier taste. But most people would switch your description.
You're right, I should have called bourbon a sweeter form of rye. I was thinking of the sweetness being milder in rye, but that's not a good way to describe it.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:07 PM
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I only ever bother with two cocktails. One is an Old Fashioned, preferably with rye. An wise old bartender introduced me to the rye Old Fashioned over 20 years ago, and I have been forever grateful.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:14 PM
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Rye Sours can be delicious as well. But Manhattans are the standard. muldoonthief's recipe is a good one.

Others you might want to try include a Sazerac cocktail, a Ward Eight, or a Vieux Carre. All can be pretty good when you are in the right mood.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:17 PM
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Back in the '30s, rye was the most popular hard liquor (ads of the time mentioned it far more than anything else), but it faded by the 70s as Canadian Whiskey took its place and corn-based whiskeys were sold cheaper because of government subsidies. Rye pretty much vanished, though it's making a comeback.

Old Fashioneds and Manhattans were the major cocktails using it, but there were many others.
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Old 11-01-2019, 04:43 PM
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I only ever bother with two cocktails. One is an Old Fashioned, preferably with rye. An wise old bartender introduced me to the rye Old Fashioned over 20 years ago, and I have been forever grateful.
I second this. My go-to drink if I'm not drinking wine is a Rye Old-Fashioned.
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Old 11-01-2019, 05:11 PM
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I second this. My go-to drink if I'm not drinking wine is a Rye Old-Fashioned.
Don't the caraway seeds get stuck in your teeth?
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Old 11-01-2019, 06:51 PM
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In honor of this thread (and the fact that it's officially The Weekend) I just made a batch of Manhattans with Sagamore Spirit rye, Dolin sweet vermouth and Peychaud's bitters.

Tasty! Not as killer as one made with Pikesville, but 10% less alcohol will do that.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:14 PM
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Rye Sours can be delicious as well. But Manhattans are the standard. muldoonthief's recipe is a good one.

Others you might want to try include a Sazerac cocktail, a Ward Eight, or a Vieux Carre. All can be pretty good when you are in the right mood.
Came to say sazerac. Quality cocktail.
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Old 11-01-2019, 07:24 PM
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Rye and ginger ale is a Canadian classic.
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Old 11-01-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
One of my favorite bars announced a $5 cocktail special for Devilís River Rye Whiskey for November. $5 is a great price by Chicago standards.

I admit, Iím not an expert at all. What type of cocktails are commonly made with rye? This place has excellent burgers, so something that would complement a burger is ideal. Would I just get it mixed with coke like a Jack and Coke?
Holy Moses! Donít have yout cheeseburger with a COCKTAIL. That way madness and alcoholism lies.

Enjoy your rye cocktail first, then order your burger along with a foaming glass of good beer.

Everyone already answering is right. Rye Manhattan. Rye Old Fashioned. A Sazerac, although Iíve never had a proper one outside of New Orleans. I disagree with the rye and ginger ó although itís a classic ó because itís too sweet for me. Iíd rather have a plain rye and soda.
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Old 11-01-2019, 08:15 PM
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Came to say sazerac. Quality cocktail.
Just had one a couple of hours ago.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:16 PM
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So, for those of us who love Scotch, Irish Whisky and Bourbon, how is the taste of Rye different?

Need to know fast...
(before I concoct drinks for Thanksgiving, and take my new son-in-law booze shopping)
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:42 PM
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So, for those of us who love Scotch, Irish Whisky and Bourbon, how is the taste of Rye different?

Need to know fast...
(before I concoct drinks for Thanksgiving, and take my new son-in-law booze shopping)
It's kind of like if bourbon was less sweet. Not only is it dryer, it has certain notes that stand out more. If your liquor store does samples try a few. If not, find a better liquor store. Failing that, Bulleit makes a good one.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:50 PM
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It's kind of like if bourbon was less sweet. Not only is it dryer, it has certain notes that stand out more.
I think this is a good description. To me, bourbon is sweet but with a little bit of sour thrown in. Rye is drier, sort of cleaner I guess.

ETA: Templeton Rye is also quite nice.

Last edited by Defensive Indifference; 11-01-2019 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 11-01-2019, 09:54 PM
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The best way I can describe rye is spicier, a little more of a bite or tang than bourbon. In terms of mellowness, not taste, if you think of scotch as ranging from mellow Lowland to more aggressive Highland to smack-your-face Islay, rye in general is like a Highland. It just has a little more going on than bourbon, and is sharper than Irish whiskey.
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Old 11-01-2019, 10:21 PM
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Wow, great descriptions, gang. Thanks!

You've inspired me to run over to the local tavern and try a shot of Bulleit Bourbon and a shot of Bulleit Rye.


Though I really shouldn't tonight... getting up at 4am for rugby finals (it's in Tokyo: SA vs ENG).

Last edited by digs; 11-01-2019 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:09 PM
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Others you might want to try include a Sazerac cocktail, a Ward Eight, or a Vieux Carre. All can be pretty good when you are in the right mood.
I like both the Sazerac and the Vieux Carre. Quite nice.

The Old Fashioned (or better yet the Maple Old Fashioned) is a good drink too.
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:31 PM
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Though I really shouldn't tonight... getting up at 4am for rugby finals (it's in Tokyo: SA vs ENG).
Unless you're actually playing in the match, that's not an excuse. Taste away!
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:41 PM
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Wow, great descriptions, gang. Thanks!

You've inspired me to run over to the local tavern and try a shot of Bulleit Bourbon and a shot of Bulleit Rye.


Though I really shouldn't tonight... getting up at 4am for rugby finals (it's in Tokyo: SA vs ENG).
See if you can find a Rittenhouse or Pikesville rye. Bulliet rye (which I like) is a little idiosyncratic. They source it from Midwest Grain Products in southern Indiana (Bulleit has no distillery of their own) and MGP originally intended their particular recipe to be blended into Canadian whisky from when it was a Seagram's facility. As such, itís 95% rye and has some unique dill notes. Most ryes are more in the 50-70% rye range.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:28 AM
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See if you can find a Rittenhouse or Pikesville rye. Bulliet rye (which I like) is a little idiosyncratic...
Oh! Thanks!

ps: I've been swilling coffee, not rye, since 4 am. Exciting rugby match...
SPOILER:
South Africa not only held their own against England (who'd beaten the formidable All-Blacks to make the finals), but went on to win... 32-12!
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:51 AM
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Bulliet rye (which I like) is a little idiosyncratic.
I think I've bought a bottle of Bulleit rye a year or so ago from Trader Joe's. Recently, I thought I'd get another. I don't remember how much I paid for the first bottle, and I don't remember how much they are now; but it seemed to me that even at TJ's, Bulleit rye was a little expensive. I think it's less expensive than, say, Maker's Mark bourbon, but it's more expensive than a large bottle of vodka.

Anyway, I drank the Bulleit on the rocks.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:52 AM
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A Boulevardier is a delicious spin on a Negroni made with rye.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:23 AM
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The best way I can describe rye is spicier, a little more of a bite or tang than bourbon. In terms of mellowness, not taste, if you think of scotch as ranging from mellow Lowland to more aggressive Highland to smack-your-face Islay, rye in general is like a Highland. It just has a little more going on than bourbon, and is sharper than Irish whiskey.

Yes, spicy is right as you mentioned before and I agreed. I've never really understood the mellowness concept though. I didn't drink whiskey for long, and I ended up with Jim Beam because it was sweeter and less spicy than rye or scotch. I was looking for something to drink straight, and that spiciness and tang were what I was looking for. Luckily I found good vodka, nearly tasteless, and it didn't give me terrible hangovers like all whiskeys did.

So anyway, back to the subject matter, looking at the Rye Whiskey wiki I see that Canadian Rye may not have been made with rye. Canadian Club just seemed like scotch to me, but I may not be appreciating the nature of these whiskeys, Bourbon can have a lot of characteristics, but always seemed far sweeter to me than the other whiskeys.

ETA: Really wandering today I was wondering if there was some good way to describe what mellowness in whiskey is

Last edited by TriPolar; 11-02-2019 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:57 AM
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I think I've bought a bottle of Bulleit rye a year or so ago from Trader Joe's. Recently, I thought I'd get another. I don't remember how much I paid for the first bottle, and I don't remember how much they are now; but it seemed to me that even at TJ's, Bulleit rye was a little expensive. I think it's less expensive than, say, Maker's Mark bourbon, but it's more expensive than a large bottle of vodka.

Anyway, I drank the Bulleit on the rocks.
Around here, Bulleit Rye 750 mL is $25-30, depending on where you shop. Thatís what I would call about mid-range pricing, maybe on the low side of mid-range. About the same price as Makers, maybe a little lower, like you said, but I prefer it to Makers. Thatís more than a reasonable price, I think, for that quality.
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Old 11-02-2019, 12:36 PM
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Around here, Bulleit Rye 750 mL is $25-30, depending on where you shop. Thatís what I would call about mid-range pricing, maybe on the low side of mid-range. About the same price as Makers, maybe a little lower, like you said, but I prefer it to Makers. Thatís more than a reasonable price, I think, for that quality.
I had it in my head that I paid $9.99 for the first bottle, a couple of years ago. I agree with what you said, but I thought I'd paid less. (FWIW, there are some pretty high spirit taxes here in Washington.)
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:35 AM
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You're right, I should have called bourbon a sweeter form of rye. I was thinking of the sweetness being milder in rye, but that's not a good way to describe it.
They're entirely separate; bourbon is at its core, a corn whiskey that's been aged in new charred oak barrels. It usually has some proportion of barley included in the mash bill for enzymatic action, and usually a varying proportion of rye and wheat as well. Some are "high rye" bourbons, meaning that the remaining non-corn portion of the mash bill is primarily rye- think Jim Beam or Bulleit. Others are "wheated" bourbons- think Maker's Mark, Pappy Van Winkle and Weller. In general, rye has a distinctive flavor that's described as "spicy"- think of the way rye bread tastes. Wheated bourbons don't have nearly so much of that and are described as smoother, although to many high-rye fans, it's just bland.

Rye whiskey is a forerunner of bourbon, and its mashbill is predominantly rye. So the flavors that distinguish a high rye bourbon are front and center in rye whiskey. It's still aged in a more or less similar fashion, so it's similar to bourbon.

Rye was the main whiskey in the golden age of cocktails however; most of the original nineteenth century whiskey cocktails actually called for rye- the Manhattan, the Vieux Carre, the Old Fashioned, and the Sazerac are all cocktails that were originally rye. As a matter of fact, there aren't many old-time cocktails that are properly bourbon- pretty much all originated as rye, rum or cognac cocktails. Even the mint julep was originally made with rye whiskey and/or cognac, not bourbon. Bourbon was kind of considered trashy or lower-class for a long time- probably up to Prohibition, I'm guessing.

Canadian whiskey is typically high rye, but isn't actually "rye whiskey" as defined in the US.
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:46 AM
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Canadian whiskey is typically high rye, but isn't actually "rye whiskey" as defined in the US.
Definition aside, Crown Royal "Northern Harvest" clocks in at 90% rye and makes an excellent Manhattan.
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:59 AM
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They're entirely separate; bourbon is at its core, a corn whiskey that's been aged in new charred oak barrels.
I know my bourbon well. I used to drink Jim Beam straight because to me it was sweet compared to other whiskeys. The charred barrels add to the sweetness along with the high sugar content of the corn it's distilled from. That charring converts starches in the wood into sugars just for that flavor. And then the barrels are used once and then used to age scotch helping to sweeten that. The trouble is that all whiskeys give me a hangover, the full body and head type hangover. Luckily I found good vodka. Once upon a time it was hard to find anything besides Smirnoff and Fleischmann's, smooth as sand those two. I have a sensitive palate, something in grain whiskeys, something in poorly filtered vodka, something in a lot of grain based liquors just tastes to tangy to me, or call it spicy, whatever it is sure ain't sweet.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:35 PM
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While we're here: Has anybody heard "Bulleit" pronounced by someone who works there? I've heard "bullet" and I've heard "bull-e-it." Which does the company's marketing department say is correct?

Last edited by silenus; 11-04-2019 at 02:36 PM.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:57 PM
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I know my bourbon well. I used to drink Jim Beam straight because to me it was sweet compared to other whiskeys. The charred barrels add to the sweetness along with the high sugar content of the corn it's distilled from. That charring converts starches in the wood into sugars just for that flavor. And then the barrels are used once and then used to age scotch helping to sweeten that. The trouble is that all whiskeys give me a hangover, the full body and head type hangover. Luckily I found good vodka. Once upon a time it was hard to find anything besides Smirnoff and Fleischmann's, smooth as sand those two. I have a sensitive palate, something in grain whiskeys, something in poorly filtered vodka, something in a lot of grain based liquors just tastes to tangy to me, or call it spicy, whatever it is sure ain't sweet.
If you've not already done so, I recommend Barr Hill Vodka from Vermont. It's distilled with honey. On the pricey side for vodka at over $50 for a 750ml bottle. Another delicious vodka for far less and with an interesting light taste of honeysuckle is Cathead Vodka from Mississippi, at about $20 per bottle. Very smooth. Both are a great domestic alternative to Titos. Belveder Smogory Forest from Poland is a great vodka as well.

What do you recommend?
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 11-04-2019 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:12 PM
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No longer need we miss
A charming scene like this....

In some secluded place to lie
Where I am wishing I would die
From drinking too much scotch and ale
'Til I was pale, then cocktails with rye
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:50 PM
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While we're here: Has anybody heard "Bulleit" pronounced by someone who works there? I've heard "bullet" and I've heard "bull-e-it." Which does the company's marketing department say is correct?
Tom Bulleit, the founder, ought to be a good enough source. He says "bullet".
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Old 11-04-2019, 07:30 PM
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Tom Bulleit, the founder, ought to be a good enough source. He says "bullet".
That's good enough for me. Thanks!
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Old 11-04-2019, 07:45 PM
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I personally wouldn't shake a Manhattan.

I like to make a Brown Derby with the.

George Dickel has solid rye at a good price imo.
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Old 11-04-2019, 07:59 PM
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I'm not much of a whiskey drinker but I will occasionally get an Old Fashioned...with rye.
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:13 PM
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One of my favorite bars announced a $5 cocktail special for Devilís River Rye Whiskey for November. $5 is a great price by Chicago standards.
You never mentioned one important piece of information. Which bar in Chicago?
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Old 11-05-2019, 01:49 PM
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Sazerac and Manhattan are all you really need, but boulevardier is a nice change of pace.
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