Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-29-2019, 05:27 PM
Ukulele Ike is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 17,833
I started college in September, 1978.

Because the rock world was in the process of falling apart, my new friends and I had extremely diffuse tastes in music. There were the Brian Eno and Talking Heads people. The Bach and Handel crowd. Avant-garde art music fans. Taj Mahal was big with blues/funk/Caribbean types. There were lots of Deadheads and Little Feat and Hot Tuna folks. The beginning of the Reggae fad. The Kinks were about to do their first Big East Coast tour, so there was a resurgence of interest in old British Invasion bands.

The one thing that united us all was a loathing for disco.
__________________
Uke

Last edited by Ukulele Ike; 10-29-2019 at 05:30 PM.
  #52  
Old 10-29-2019, 05:38 PM
ISiddiqui is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Decatur, Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
You don't listen to 80s synthpop, eurodance, EDM or pop, do you?

Her music with Moroder was unquestionably gamechanging, and I'll happily bet money that more people worldwide would recognize (or enjoy) a Donna Summer tune than a Metallica one. Hell, most of them wouldn't know who "James Hetfield" is. Donna Summer is still being referenced in modern pop, by such names as Beyonce and Madonna. Do Eddie or James have a currently touring Broadway biographical musical on the go?
It's a strange statement considering that most modern pop seems to be far more influenced by Summer rather than the rock of van Halen or Metallica. The latter seem far less influential to me (though at the time in the late 80s/90s they seemed like they would be giants).

Last edited by ISiddiqui; 10-29-2019 at 05:39 PM.
  #53  
Old 10-29-2019, 05:48 PM
pulykamell is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: SW Side, Chicago
Posts: 48,098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike View Post
There were the Brian Eno and Talking Heads people.
Speaking of Eno, according to David Bowie, when Eno heard "I Feel Love," he described it as "the sound of the future." (And my understanding is in a positive way, not just a "look what these kids are up to" sort of way.)

Quote:
In the liner notes to his 'Sound And Vision' retrospective collection, Bowie explains, “One day in Berlin, Eno came running in and said, ‘I have heard the sound of the future’ … he puts on ‘I Feel Love’ by Donna Summer … He said, ‘This is it, look no further. This single is going to change the sound of club music for the next fifteen years.”

He was right -- the record would later influence acts like Depeche Mode and New Order. Even the Red Hot Chili Peppers covered the song on their 'Live In Hyde Park' album. Summer went on to have fourteen Top 10 hits, including four No. 1 records.
From here.

Last edited by pulykamell; 10-29-2019 at 05:48 PM.
  #54  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:07 PM
madsircool is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
You don't listen to 80s synthpop, eurodance, EDM or pop, do you?

Her music with Moroder was unquestionably gamechanging, and I'll happily bet money that more people worldwide would recognize (or enjoy) a Donna Summer tune than a Metallica one. Hell, most of them wouldn't know who "James Hetfield" is. Donna Summer is still being referenced in modern pop, by such names as Beyonce and Madonna. Do Eddie or James have a currently touring Broadway biographical musical on the go?
Do a fast YouTube search and Metallica plays stadiums around the world right now, in 2019 and has for the past 35 years. Eddie van Halen revolutionized how the guitar is played. I like Donna Summer and I enjoy her music but she could rise from the grave and put on a tour at midsized venues and not fill them, at the end of the day she was a niche artist. Now if you were talking about The Pet Shop Boys who are still recording and touring and have been for decades you would have a better argument. I would bet that you could show her pic, say her name and play her music to almost any 20 year old on the planet and they wont have a clue who she is. Her music never touched the same cross generational audience that hard rock has.
  #55  
Old 10-29-2019, 06:27 PM
madsircool is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,802
Quote:
Originally Posted by ISiddiqui View Post
It's a strange statement considering that most modern pop seems to be far more influenced by Summer rather than the rock of van Halen or Metallica. The latter seem far less influential to me (though at the time in the late 80s/90s they seemed like they would be giants).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgull...de_M%C3%A9xico

Three nights in Mexico City at a packed stadium

World release

Still filling stadiums to this day

Like I said, I like Donna Summer but she was a pop singer whose music was producer driven and niche. She was talented and popular but she was never a massive international star. People hare also have very short memories. Disco was massively unpopular with working class young people. Disco was hipster shit and co-opted more complex funk and r&b. George Clinton was massively more influential in the history of music than Summer, even if few recognizes his name. His music still reverberates through sampled bits in Hip Hop and rap.
  #56  
Old 10-29-2019, 07:36 PM
Yookeroo's Avatar
Yookeroo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Clemente, California
Posts: 5,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Greenback View Post
Who said anything about rap and hip-hop? Also, and somewhat crucially, the music was Georgio Moroder's. Donna was of course the perfect vocalist for it, a strange happenstance that they were both in the same part of Germany at just the right time.
Yeah, I'd say Moroder's production was the big influence. Yes, bigger than Van Halen and Metallica.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
But her music was never revolutionary and game changing like an Eddie van Halen and she never had the worldwide fame that Metallica has to this day.
I Feel Love was far more game changing than Van Halen and Metallica. Rock had become niche music. The influence of Moroder is everywhere in music today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulykamell View Post
"I Feel Love" is one of the most important and influential songs to come out of that era. It still sounds fresh to me today.
Yep. People like Moroder and Kraftwerk have been for more influential that Eddie van Halen. Really.
  #57  
Old 10-29-2019, 07:38 PM
Yookeroo's Avatar
Yookeroo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Clemente, California
Posts: 5,094
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
Like I said, I like Donna Summer but she was a pop singer whose music was producer driven and niche.
Rock music is the niche music nowadays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
Disco was massively unpopular with working class young people.
You're joking, right?
  #58  
Old 10-30-2019, 01:18 AM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 26,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDibble View Post
You don't listen to 80s synthpop, eurodance, EDM or pop, do you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgull...de_M%C3%A9xico

Three nights in Mexico City at a packed stadium

World release

Still filling stadiums to this day
10 years ago is not "to this day"

Right now, they ain't filling jack.
Quote:
Like I said, I like Donna Summer but she was a pop singer whose music was producer driven and niche.
How old are you, that you think disco was niche, or that Summer was a sideshow in disco? Disco was ubiquitous, not just in music but fashion and film. And Summer was a big star in it.
Quote:
She was talented and popular but she was never a massive international star.
Of all the disco divas, I'd argue she was by far the biggest international star.


Given how most of her big hits were produced in Europe, for one. Then there's all those Grammys and metallic records...
Quote:
People hare also have very short memories. Disco was massively unpopular with working class young people.
Bull Shit. Disco began with working class youth, and remained popular with them.

Even hard rock groups were desperate to get into the act, so how unpopular could it have been? Look at these fucking hipsters.
Quote:
Disco was hipster shit
What, exactly, are you using as your definition of "hipster"?
Quote:
and co-opted
Now there's a loaded term.
Quote:
George Clinton was massively more influential in the history of music than Summer, even if few recognizes his name.
Again you're using superlatives like "massively" without any substantiation. But even if so, it's irrelevant to whether Summer is herself influential.
Quote:
His music still reverberates through sampled bits in Hip Hop and rap.
You think Donna Summer isn't still sampled? Like, a lot. Including by people like Dr. Dre and Nas.

You seem stuck in some kind of rockist ghetto. You could just have answered "YES" to my question.

Last edited by MrDibble; 10-30-2019 at 01:22 AM.
  #59  
Old 11-04-2019, 09:50 AM
road_lobo is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossbreed View Post
It is now known as techno/electronica.
It is now known as EDM. Electronica was a marketing term. "Techno" is a shibboleth.
  #60  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:04 AM
TriPolar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 41,125
I'll try to emphasize the important points here:

1. Disco is not about the music, it's about dancing and hooking up and feeling good after an era of turmoil.

2. Donna Summer was a talented singer. She would have been in any music genre.
  #61  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:18 AM
Ukulele Ike is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 17,833
3. All that cocaine didn’t hurt, either.
__________________
Uke
  #62  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:46 AM
monstro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 20,797
Hip hop sprung out of disco.

So did house music.



Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
__________________
What the hell is a signature?
  #63  
Old 11-04-2019, 01:38 PM
sps49sd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
For young people disco was a way to meet the opposite sex....
I was too young for bars and disco, but I wish I'd realized sooner the good dancing would've done me. My issue was that disco took over the two radio stations available that weren't country, and I resented not having music to listen to for a while.
  #64  
Old 11-04-2019, 02:24 PM
ISiddiqui is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Decatur, Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
Three nights in Mexico City at a packed stadium

World release

Still filling stadiums to this day
That's fantastic for nostalgia filled people who want to see a concert. Shall we compare those sales to disco influenced albums and tracks today? Taylor Swift's "Lover" that just came out this year is heavily influenced by pop disco and electropop and I bet she is selling far more than Metallica is. Drake's work is also heavily influenced by electronica in hip-hop and released a big album this year. And then there is Billie Eilish who may be the most Moroder influenced big artist this year.

I'd say those artists had far more influence on 2019 than old farts like Metallica or Rolling Stones or whoever old bands who are making money on nostalgia.
  #65  
Old 11-04-2019, 05:46 PM
The Stafford Cripps is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by road_lobo View Post
It is now known as EDM. Electronica was a marketing term. "Techno" is a shibboleth.
Are you suggesting that twenty-somethings don't refer to music that they produce and dance to as "techno"? Because they do.
  #66  
Old 11-04-2019, 11:40 PM
glowacks is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by road_lobo View Post
It is now known as EDM. Electronica was a marketing term. "Techno" is a shibboleth.
A shibboleth that you're from Detroit?
  #67  
Old 11-07-2019, 02:09 PM
Kennedy1960 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio Hellpop View Post
Back in 1976, I had an art teacher who was in her 40s (I was in high school). A little old to be a Baby Boomer, but still kind of hip and with it. She liked the idea of kids wearing fancy clothes to go out and learning complicated dance steps, as a tonic to the hippie love-in t-shirts and denim of a couple years earlier.

My parents? WWII generation? They couldn't stand that shit.
Why did the WWII folks and middle aged people take on a lot of Disco/Hippie era aesthetics?

For example, my stepgrandfather wore poka dotted wide colored shirts with bell bottomed slacks as early as 72. He was 55. My grandpa has a Disco shirt on - collar huge and pointy - in 1975. His brother has a pink shirt with a massive color, gigantic white belt, and fuschia pants in 1973 and he was 53. My other grandpa who was always stuck in the 50s otherwise has sideburns going down to the end of his ear in a photo from 1980 I have.

My grandma wore frilly very 70s era blouses and whatnot in 1972 and she was 40 at this point.
  #68  
Old 11-07-2019, 04:49 PM
Moris is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mediterranean shores
Posts: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by madsircool View Post
Donna Summer had a respectable pop/r&b career that bled over into the disco revolution. She was never in the pantheon of great R&B singers like Aretha Franklin or Whitney Houston. She had a very nice career. But her music was never revolutionary and game changing like an Eddie van Halen and she never had the worldwide fame that Metallica has to this day.
It's not about Donna Summer. It's about arrangement. It's an electronic piece of disco music, hence electronic dance music. Before that electronic music was either avangarde/academic music, or in pop-rock context psychedelic/space rock, and ambient music was in its infancy. There was no "dance in the discotheque" electronic music save for "Popcorn" and some Kraftwerk.

Metallica's thrash metal was a huge influence on countless performers - but I'm afraid that house-->techno-->rave-->electronic dance music in general was (and still is) leaving much bigger impact on contemporary music. Besides, all the drum machines signature sounds - hi-hats, handclaps, cowbells - started in 80s on Japanese devices as poor imitations of disco sounds.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:10 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017