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  #51  
Old 10-24-2019, 11:32 PM
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Someone once told me that the JWs have a database and that if you tell them that you don't want them on your property, they won't bother you. I used to get them on at least a monthly basis, and I told them to never come back, and now they really rarely show up.
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Old 10-24-2019, 11:43 PM
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Someone once told me that the JWs have a database and that if you tell them that you don't want them on your property, they won't bother you. I used to get them on at least a monthly basis, and I told them to never come back, and now they really rarely show up.
From what I understand, it only works for six months, after which they'll try again. And only if you specifically ask them not to come back--if you just make them feel unwelcome, they'll come back again and again.

Assuming this is true, then it fits what I said in my previous paragraph. Someone politely saying no doesn't feed the persecution fantasy, but someone being rude to them would--despite the rude ones being the ones who are least receptive to the message.

I have also always been polite, but more because I feel sorry for them. I tell them "Thanks, but I'm already a Christian and know what beliefs are." I've even offered them a drink before, simply to copy what the Bible said about how you'll be blessed if you offer a drink to preachers of the Good News.

Last edited by BigT; 10-24-2019 at 11:45 PM.
  #53  
Old 10-25-2019, 07:42 AM
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I used to have a holiday home in Italy, and a lovely Italian neighbour used to keep an eye on the place, her son taking charge of gardening duties. Whenever I was there, she'd come over for a coffee or a beer.

Then one day, instead of walking through the gate and knocking on the front door as she normally would, she stood at the end of my driveway just outside the gate. With a friend I'd never seen before. And dressed really weirdly - light makeup, straightened hair, twinset, sensible skirt length. She rang the bell and I went out to her.

Hi Eleanor, is everything ok? At which point she whips out a leaflet and starts talking to me about Jesus. My wife sidled up and did that haughty 'I'm Catholic and this teaching is blasphemous' thing, that Catholics do when faced with a 'lesser' church. And they left.

Next day I saw her as usual, in scruffy jeans and dropping by for a coffee and a chat about the olive trees. Nothing about her JW escapade was mentioned then, or ever again.
  #54  
Old 10-25-2019, 11:10 AM
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I don't get worked up about this. But that's just my opinion, so please carry on.

I usually invite them in and have a chat. We have a good conversation, I bring up points of doctrine where our beliefs differ and they provide some support for their beliefs.
It's always a friendly encounter and I don't see them again for a year or two.

It's my humble opinion that at worst they are just doing a job, working to earn their place in heaven, while at best they truly and completely believe in their heart that they are helping a fellow human being in the best possible way.

That's a whole lot more than can be said for the random guys from Comcast or Cablevision who come to my door and try to sell me new Internet service. I never let them in, and I tell them my reasons for keeping my current service, but they just don't leave. I have occasionally had to say "Please leave my property"
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Old 10-25-2019, 12:39 PM
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I have a special hate for religious vultures who regard the death of someone's friend or loved one as an opportunity for an advertisement. Some years ago, I attended the funeral of a friend who had been murdered. The preacher knew that some of her friends who were in attendance weren't Christian, and decided that the middle of her eulogy would be a great time to insult their beliefs and declare that they needed to convert to his church to find comfort. It still pisses me off every time I think about it.

I don't believe we've ever even exchanged words before, GreysonCarlisle, but I'm sorry for your loss and furious on your behalf at the scum trying to take advantage of a grieving family.
Back when my father died, in 2014, a communication from a legal firm showed up by FedEx. I will include here the post I made on the Dope at the time. Many and varied were the ideas we were given on how to return the book we were sent.

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Okay, now I'm officially pissed.

I was at my mother's house today, and a FedEx truck pulls up. The package delivered said "legal documents" so we opened it.

Huh, it was from a firm of personal injury lawyers, a book of theirs on "Winning a lawsuit with dignity" Yeah, right. My dad hasn't even been dead for a frakking week, and the vultures send her something like this. Probably got his name out of the newspaper articles, or from the television news story.

My inclination is to burn the book and mail them the ashes, but Mom wouldn't like it. However, I think my Dad may have appreciated it. I won't do it of course, but just thinking about it makes me feel better.
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Old 10-25-2019, 02:05 PM
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Back when my father died, in 2014, a communication from a legal firm showed up by FedEx. I will include here the post I made on the Dope at the time. Many and varied were the ideas we were given on how to return the book we were sent.
Vultures is apt. Scum would also fit.
  #57  
Old 10-27-2019, 06:19 PM
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When the first set of JWs came to my door, I told them that this was a devout atheist household and they left quickly.
The second time, years later, a woman came with a little girl, I guess so that she wouldn't get yelled at. I smiled and started quizzing her on creationism. I, like any Doper, was able to rip apart her flimsy arguments, right in front of the impressionable kid. They've never been back. I figure that if you yell at them they can feel righteous, but if you take apart their belief structure they might possibly start to think.
The only thing I' do differently would be to offer them some water to be really polite.
  #58  
Old 10-27-2019, 06:28 PM
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Jehovas Witnesses and their fake bullshit need to die off. My condolences to you, OP. At least Mormons aren't too annoying.
  #59  
Old 10-27-2019, 07:03 PM
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I have also always been polite, but more because I feel sorry for them. I tell them "Thanks, but I'm already a Christian and know what beliefs are."
I may lose a few Jesus Points for suggesting this, but anyone could use this line. A friend of mine says that as soon as they hear "I'm a Born-Again Christian"*, they put you on the Stay Away From list.

*Not sure I could utter that without a Southern "bless your li'l heart" accent...
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Old 10-28-2019, 01:43 AM
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When the first set of JWs came to my door, I told them that this was a devout atheist household and they left quickly.
The second time, years later, a woman came with a little girl, I guess so that she wouldn't get yelled at. I smiled and started quizzing her on creationism. I, like any Doper, was able to rip apart her flimsy arguments, right in front of the impressionable kid. They've never been back. I figure that if you yell at them they can feel righteous, but if you take apart their belief structure they might possibly start to think.
The only thing I' do differently would be to offer them some water to be really polite.
My first longtime roommate in college did something similar with the Mormon missionaries. He scheduled a time for them to come in and make their pitch, and, after they did, he asked if he could use their visual aids to show his beliefs, too. They made excuses and left, and didn't come back.

Both of my longtime roommates in college were a bit weird in the religion department. One almost became confirmed as a Catholic for a girl, but dropped it after they broke up, but still went to Catholic mass and kept a Catholic Bible. Not too weird, but unusual. The other was really strange, basically starting his own denomination with one friend who had had a near death experience. He didn't believe he could trust any church, so he just kept his tithe in a separate funding for his own missionary trips he did on his own, riding a bike back home 30 miles every other Friday, and then going out on Saturday. He believed it was the only work he was allowed to do on the Sabbath (after sundown Friday). He also believed that any fiction that had magic in it was wrong, though he would play video games with magic in them--as long as he could avoid using magic himself, and punish all the magic users with his brute strength.

Both were quite kind, though, and neither proselytized to me. Despite the magic thing, the other guy was otherwise rather "live and let live," and his belief that sex and marriage were the same thing and that polygamy was okay (since it was in the Bible) meant that he wasn't judgmental in the most common way the Christians in the area were. And both were heavily into charity. The second guy has a lot of funds saved back from his tithing. which he could only use by giving to others in need (or to help with his missionary work on Saturday).

I bring this up because I think they are a big reason I have a soft spot for Christians with unusual beliefs. I got to know them, that they were good people beneath it all, but just plagued either by organized religion or very scrupulous thought processes. Of course, not all aren't hateful, but it does lead me to feel sorry for those who are good people.
  #61  
Old 10-28-2019, 03:02 AM
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BigT: Do you know if the guy who tithed his money away for himself just kept it at home (as in a mattress "bank") or if he banked it (Parable of the Talents)?
  #62  
Old 10-28-2019, 09:42 AM
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Many posters here have labeled the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult. All religions are cults goddamnit! That some cults have more adherents than others makes them no less of a cult.

All you Christian/Islamic/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist cultists, please keep this in mind.
  #63  
Old 10-28-2019, 09:53 AM
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Some cults are more of a cult then others. When anyone says they believe to the world's only true religion, think cult.

Twice I've had serious run-ins with the JW's and you couldn't pay me enough to join them. They claim I allowed my sister to be sentenced to hell (which in their belief is eternity in the grave) because I let her have the blood transfusions that saved her life. You know, my sister the radical feminist lesbian. And a co-worker who was a JW was beaten so badly by her husband he put her in the hospital. The cult told her not to press charges,, as they would take care of it, and it was her fault for being a "bad wife."

I told her to press charges and leave the husband and the cult. She did.
  #64  
Old 10-28-2019, 01:17 PM
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justanothermike. Here's his excellent ask a former Jehovah's witness thread, where he posts all the details.
When I read the OP, I assumed that JWs were targeting those who suffered recent losses because they were vulnerable and being reminded of mortality may open them up to religious influences. Then this quote seemed to confirm my assumption:

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As to JW funerals, you will often notice that it is just a generic sales pitch for the religion. You will hear very little about the deceased other than that they did this or that in the JW religion, had x amount of sons or daughters or a wife or whatever. It is about pitching the religion to any in attendance because they know that many there aren't JWs and that death makes people vulnerable and search for answers. They have a script for the entire process. They don't care to make it about that person's life or whatever, it's all about the JWs.
To hell with them. My brother, who has struggled with mental illness, crime, and drug addiction, was sucked into their fold for a time. They are vultures.
  #65  
Old 10-28-2019, 01:23 PM
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Many posters here have labeled the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult. All religions are cults goddamnit! That some cults have more adherents than others makes them no less of a cult.

All you Christian/Islamic/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist cultists, please keep this in mind.
Political parties as well.
  #66  
Old 10-28-2019, 10:39 PM
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It's my humble opinion that at worst they are just doing a job, working to earn their place in heaven, while at best they truly and completely believe in their heart that they are helping a fellow human being in the best possible way.
But they don't know jack about that fellow human being, whether the doorbell they're ringing is the home of a Father/Imam/Preacher/Rabbi/Reverend who leads a congregation, or someone who attends regularly; all they know is that that house doesn't have one of them therefore the occupants aren't 'right'. If I express interest, then come talk to me, but to interrupt me & try to 'sell' me your shit; well, the OP is right - fuck 'em.
  #67  
Old 10-30-2019, 02:11 PM
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Many posters here have labeled the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult. All religions are cults goddamnit! That some cults have more adherents than others makes them no less of a cult.

All you Christian/Islamic/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist cultists, please keep this in mind.
Your post gave me heresy!
  #68  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:32 AM
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BigT: Do you know if the guy who tithed his money away for himself just kept it at home (as in a mattress "bank") or if he banked it (Parable of the Talents)?
Yes. He kept it as a wad of cash. While it never came up, it wouldn't surprise me if he believed that getting interest was wrong.

That said, I wouldn't apply that parable as he wasn't squirreling it away. He actively used it in his ministry, with most of it spent by the end of the year. And he didn't give to churches only because he had not found one that he didn't think was not actually preaching the proper gospel. When he told me about it, he actually said he regretted that, but that he couldn't see how it was any different than a pastor tithing to his own church.

I don't really think any legalistic approach was appropriate for him, as that was his underlying problem. He had been clinically depressed and his scrupulosity is how he brought himself out of it. We did catch up a few years later, and he seemed to have mellowed out a lot, after having found a community where he fit in.
  #69  
Old 10-31-2019, 07:58 AM
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I've never had a problem with them. Maybe once a year (or two years) they knock on my door and ask if I'm busy. I say, "As a matter of fact, I am," and they offer to leave a pamphlet.

I say, "No thanks, I belong to a different church. But you have a good weekend."

They thank me and tell me to have a good weekend as well and off they go.
  #70  
Old 10-31-2019, 08:03 AM
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Many posters here have labeled the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult. All religions are cults goddamnit! That some cults have more adherents than others makes them no less of a cult.

All you Christian/Islamic/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist cultists, please keep this in mind.
I do not agree. That's not how the term is used, and usage defines meaning. A cult will attempt to isolate you from non-believers, and teaches you not to question your beliefs. Simply being part of a group of people with common beliefs who meet together does not a cult make.

If it did, then rationalism, secular humanism, political parties, hobby groups, etc. would all be cults.

There is also an alternate definition of cult used in some Christian circles, which is just a synonym for a heretical group. I do not like that definition, as it is just a term of derision. Similarly, when an atheist uses it for all religions, I feel they are doing the same thing.

Mormonism I'm on the fence about. I might argue it used to be more like a cult than it is today. But Jehovah's Witness, with the tactics I've seen firsthand, are definitely cult-like. I'll also throw in the isolationist subset of Fundamentalists and Pentecostals who try to pull their kids out of schools and such.

But Christianity or religion in general? No. Calling all that "cult" removes the meaning behind the term. If religion and cult mean the same thing, then there is no reason for both terms to exist. I don't want it watered down to "cult is just a negative term for religion."
  #71  
Old 10-31-2019, 08:05 AM
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This is yet another example of how people interpret the Bible to suit their own agenda. Their behavior centers on witnessing their faith, which they interpret as hard line recruiting and incessant harassment. The original intent of the mandate as we interpret it is to witness one's faith through Christian behavior, through being an example of what you believe.
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  #72  
Old 10-31-2019, 12:32 PM
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A fine example of how Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to question the cult's beliefs:

They said Jesus would return in 1975.
Jesus did not return in 1975.
They deny saying this.

Read all about it here
  #73  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:23 PM
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A fine example of how Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to question the cult's beliefs:

They said Jesus would return in 1975.
Jesus did not return in 1975.
They deny saying this.

Read all about it here
I was born in 1975.

Just sayin'.
  #74  
Old 10-31-2019, 02:27 PM
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This is yet another example of how people interpret the Bible to suit their own agenda. Their behavior centers on witnessing their faith, which they interpret as hard line recruiting and incessant harassment. The original intent of the mandate as we interpret it is to witness one's faith through Christian behavior, through being an example of what you believe.
But that takes effort and self sacrifice. Holy shit.

Far easier to judge and fuck with everyone else's lives. Does it surprise you that some of the most heinous disgusting scandals usually involve "holier than thou" tighty righty "evangelical" dominionist types?

They want to control YOU, not THEMSELVES.
  #75  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:14 PM
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I've never had a problem with Jehovah's Witnesses. They come to the door, I tell them; "Sorry, I'm happy with my current savior, but leave a card and if my needs in a Messiah should change I'll give you a call." They say "Thank you" and leave. The whole interaction takes less than a minute.
  #76  
Old 10-31-2019, 04:22 PM
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Many posters here have labeled the Jehovah's Witnesses a cult. All religions are cults goddamnit!
Those that aggressively proselytize have a special place in hell, or at least belong on the Katy Freeway at the height of rush hour.
  #77  
Old 11-02-2019, 12:44 AM
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My first longtime roommate in college did something similar with the Mormon missionaries. He scheduled a time for them to come in and make their pitch, and, after they did, he asked if he could use their visual aids to show his beliefs, too. They made excuses and left, and didn't come back.
We bought our house from Mormons, so they never come - I think there is lamb's blood on the doorpost or something. Nice people with lots of kids and presumably great parents. Except for the time the SWAT team came for their son while we were living here.

My daughter had lots of Mormon friends until they got all culty and withdrew in their last years of high school, preparing to go to one BYU or another.
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Old 11-05-2019, 06:07 PM
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Several days ago, I was at a gas station putting up a flyer for my library's upcoming book sale, and saw a JW brochure, which I took with me and put in the recycling bin.

  #79  
Old 11-06-2019, 12:34 PM
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When I find those tracts in our City's little free lending library box, I immediately take them out and put them i the garbage.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:43 PM
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My mentally-ill uncle was sucked into the JWs in the 1980s. When my grandma passed away, mum was shocked to discover that uncle had coerced her into leaving her tiny estate to the JWs too.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:46 PM
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Danielle probably learned it as a child.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:44 PM
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When I find those tracts in our City's little free lending library box, I immediately take them out and put them i the garbage.
At least I've never seen a JW tract in our hospital men's room (representatives of some Christian sects apparently think we need to be exposed to the Gospel while at the urinal).
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:04 PM
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FYR: an “ask me anything” thread by a former JW which provides disturbing insights into what the cult is like.
  #84  
Old 11-07-2019, 11:12 PM
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At least I've never seen a JW tract in our hospital men's room (representatives of some Christian sects apparently think we need to be exposed to the Gospel while at the urinal).
What, you never heard of "Piss Christ"?

:flees:
  #85  
Old 11-08-2019, 12:07 AM
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Another one came the other day and asked who was responsible for the suffering of the world.
Easy, I said. Nature. We're a fluke of the universe.
He was nonplussed. I would have spoken to him more but his English wasn't nearly good enough, so it would have been pointless.
Also, no little girls to corrupt into the evils of evolution.
  #86  
Old 11-08-2019, 07:45 AM
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That's an easy question: God, right? If He wants the credit He gets the blame.

Last edited by DesertDog; 11-08-2019 at 07:45 AM.
  #87  
Old 11-08-2019, 08:00 AM
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That's an easy question: God, right? If He wants the credit He gets the blame.
says so right there in Isaiah 45:7, I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the lord do all these things.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:44 AM
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The JWs reject holiday observances. In particular, they eschew Halloween, apparently because they are uncomfortable with the idea of strangers showing up at their door.
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:07 PM
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The JWs reject holiday observances. In particular, they eschew Halloween, apparently because they are uncomfortable with the idea of strangers showing up at their door.
:snort:
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