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  #101  
Old 12-10-2018, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WOOKINPANUB View Post
The only feeling of rage this song ever brought me was all the nosy ass people that were up in this poor girl's business. She obviously wants to stay (if you can't see that, well, I don't know what to tell you)but can't because god forbid, "what will everyone think"? What a shame to have this lovely tune taken off the air. Of course, that's what Spotify is for.
Well, that's exactly the sort of response I'd expect from someone looking for love in all the wrong places.
  #102  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:45 AM
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The only feeling of rage this song ever brought me was all the nosy ass people that were up in this poor girl's business. She obviously wants to stay (if you can't see that, well, I don't know what to tell you)but can't because god forbid, "what will everyone think"? What a shame to have this lovely tune taken off the air. Of course, that's what Spotify is for.
Well, then she should quit whining and stay already. No one cares! This isn't the past, or present - we're living in the future. And it's OK for women to like sex.
  #103  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:46 AM
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I'm beginning to believe this whole thing is yet another right-wing manufactured outrage along the lines of the "War On Christmas!!!!". There are a bunch of fake news stories out there(along with matching petitions) on Facebook about how the song is being banned by all the radio stations.
  #104  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:03 AM
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I'm beginning to believe this whole thing is yet another right-wing manufactured outrage along the lines of the "War On Christmas!!!!". There are a bunch of fake news stories out there(along with matching petitions) on Facebook about how the song is being banned by all the radio stations.
The link mentioned upthread mentions a few stations either removing it or considering it. And one running a poll about it where over 90% want it kept in rotation.

I haven't seen claims that it's being banned by "all the stations" but Facebook being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see anyone saying it either. Most popular memes (or what passes for a meme these days) are a back-and-forth argument ending with some version of "It's not that great of a song anyway!".
  #105  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:19 AM
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The link mentioned upthread mentions a few stations either removing it or considering it. And one running a poll about it where over 90% want it kept in rotation.

I haven't seen claims that it's being banned by "all the stations" but Facebook being what it is, I wouldn't be surprised to see anyone saying it either. Most popular memes (or what passes for a meme these days) are a back-and-forth argument ending with some version of "It's not that great of a song anyway!".
One station removed it, and other stations are discussing it because it is a hot button topic that increases the listenership. There is no censorship problem going on here, just hyped up manufactured rage for the sake of ratings.
  #106  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:21 AM
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I'm not calling it censorship. I'm saying that the "stations are 'banning' it" thing isn't made of whole cloth.

Honestly, the "Date Rape!" argument sounds just as much like recreational outrage to me as the "War on Christmas!" argument so I can see why the "Gah, everyone shut up" meme is winning on my Facebook feed.
  #107  
Old 12-10-2018, 11:52 AM
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I'm not calling it censorship. I'm saying that the "stations are 'banning' it" thing isn't made of whole cloth.

Honestly, the "Date Rape!" argument sounds just as much like recreational outrage to me as the "War on Christmas!" argument so I can see why the "Gah, everyone shut up" meme is winning on my Facebook feed.
"Stations"? What stations have actually banned it?
  #108  
Old 12-10-2018, 12:37 PM
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"Stations"? What stations have actually banned it?
From the article linked previously:
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All this over the San Francisco radio station's decision to pull "Baby It's Cold Outside" from its rotation after roughly 100 complaints got the attention of program director Brian Figula. Just days before, a Cleveland radio station found itself in the crosshairs for doing the same.
Stations. Sheesh.
  #109  
Old 12-10-2018, 12:58 PM
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This song is from an era when it was harder for women in America to own their sexuality, it's still too hard for a lot of people. The song is a play on the kind of dance people had to go to in order to have sex. This song is from a time when women who enjoyed sex were sluts, when Jews couldn't join country clubs and when black people couldn't sit where they wanted on a bus. America was a fucked up place and because it was so fucked up, men used the fact that women couldn't expressly state their sexual desires to take advantage of them and then later claim that "she wanted it." The woman in the song may want to stay over, but it's much better to live in a time when adults can just fuck when they want to fuck.

Some radio stations decided that this song from a fucked up time in America is no longer relevant to their listeners and decided not to play it any more. Other people are outraged by that fact, why I'm not sure.

Last edited by madmonk28; 12-10-2018 at 12:59 PM.
  #110  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:01 PM
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From the article linked previously:
Stations. Sheesh.
2 whole stations? Wow!
There are 11, 341 commercial radio station is the U.S., which means we are talking about 0.017% percent of the radio stations that have stopped(or temporarily stopped) playing this one song. Of course I haven't filtered out news stations and the like...but if you could, through various filters, get the number of effected stations up to a whopping 0.1% I would be surprised. When you throw in the number of stations that have added the song or played it more often just to make headlines, then I daresay this has actually turned from an incredibly minuscule problem to to an actual plus as far as that song is concerned.

Last edited by Czarcasm; 12-10-2018 at 01:01 PM.
  #111  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:16 PM
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Some radio stations decided that this song from a fucked up time in America is no longer relevant to their listeners and decided not to play it any more.

They better go after Jingle Bells next--after all, how are one-horse open sleighs relevant to modern listeners?
  #112  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:34 PM
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They better go after Jingle Bells next--after all, how are one-horse open sleighs relevant to modern listeners?
You mean the same two radio stations that stopped playing Baby It's Cold Outside? I think we'll survive.

Last edited by madmonk28; 12-10-2018 at 01:34 PM.
  #113  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:37 PM
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2 whole stations? Wow!
Who cares? I said "stations" and you went on some pedantic "Oh, stations, huh?" like you were going to get me on there only being the one in Cleveland. There was more than one -- so you put an "s" at the end. That's how plurals work. I also put "banning" in quotes because I don't think that's really the appropriate word for it. Yes, people going nuts over it being off the air from some.. two.. one.. whatever stations is dumb. So is going ape irate over how it must be a rape song because people don't grasp history or context. So it goes -- give people a reason to whine and bitch and they'll grab and defend it.

Last edited by Jophiel; 12-10-2018 at 01:37 PM.
  #114  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:53 PM
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...So is going ape irate over how it must be a rape song because people don't grasp history or context. So it goes -- give people a reason to whine and bitch and they'll grab and defend it.
I would argue that the people not grasping history and context are the ones defending the song. They seem to be incapable of grasping that context changes and that we view history in a different light now and that a song where a woman can't express her sexual desire is fucked up. Also, I think that the defenders of the song are the ones who are looking for a reason to whine and bitch.
  #115  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:18 PM
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  #116  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:19 PM
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a song where a woman can't express her sexual desire is fucked up.
Oh, I think the Mouse expresses desire pretty damn plainly.

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Also, I think that the defenders of the song are the ones who are looking for a reason to whine and bitch.
Or just point and snicker.
  #117  
Old 12-10-2018, 02:36 PM
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One station removed it, and other stations are discussing it because it is a hot button topic that increases the listenership. There is no censorship problem going on here, just hyped up manufactured rage for the sake of ratings.
Like I said, a publicity stunt.
  #118  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:29 PM
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They seem to be incapable of grasping that context changes
No, the whole point of context is that it doesn't change and thus allows you a view into what something is actually about by looking at the surrounding circumstances.
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Also, I think that the defenders of the song are the ones who are looking for a reason to whine and bitch.
You have two groups of people ("Date rape!" "War on Christmas!") trying desperately to make a major thing out of a rather minor thing and picking it apart for any "evidence" to fit their agenda even if those things don't actually hold up to examination.
  #119  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:39 PM
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Now I've got relatives posting versions of the stupid song with the tag "Come on, post it! I dare you!!!" How brave![not enough in the whole fucking world for this shit].
  #120  
Old 12-10-2018, 03:56 PM
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I don't care about the rape. I just don't like the song.
  #121  
Old 12-10-2018, 04:02 PM
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No, the whole point of context is that it doesn't change and thus allows you a view into what something is actually about by looking at the surrounding circumstances.

You have two groups of people ("Date rape!" "War on Christmas!") trying desperately to make a major thing out of a rather minor thing and picking it apart for any "evidence" to fit their agenda even if those things don't actually hold up to examination.
One side greatly outnumbers(and outshouts) the other, and when met with little to no resistance shouts all the louder.
  #122  
Old 12-10-2018, 05:16 PM
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Some radio stations decided that this song from a fucked up time in America is no longer relevant to their listeners and decided not to play it any more. Other people are outraged by that fact, why I'm not sure.
Censorship?
  #123  
Old 12-10-2018, 05:20 PM
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I've read hundreds of classic mysteries from the 30s and 40s, and everybody drinks all the time in them. Men and women. Wives drink the same thing as their husbands (if not, that's a sign of a no-good marriage). In these books are countless references to drinks being extraordinarily, oddly, mysteriously, gaspingly, eye-poppingly potent. Those are always throwaway lines for humor and I can't give you an example (I'll bet there's one in the Jake Justus mysteries by Craig Rice because any of her (yes, her) books has more drinking than all the Thin Man movies combined.
During the last couple of years i've re-watched the Thin Man movies, and the one thing that really stood out to me (when it's a familiar movie I notice the details a lot more) was the size of the glasses.

There's one scene where Nick is sitting at the bar with six or seven cocktails lined up in front of him. The glasses are tiny. The equivalent amount of alcohol today would maybe stretch to two glasses. Now, I check it out when watching movies of that vintage, and it's the same thing. Compared to today, the drink portions were very small. One or two gulps (five sips?) max.
  #124  
Old 12-10-2018, 05:27 PM
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This song is from an era when it was harder for women in America to own their sexuality, it's still too hard for a lot of people. The song is a play on the kind of dance people had to go to in order to have sex. This song is from a time when women who enjoyed sex were sluts, when Jews couldn't join country clubs and when black people couldn't sit where they wanted on a bus. America was a fucked up place and because it was so fucked up, men used the fact that women couldn't expressly state their sexual desires to take advantage of them and then later claim that "she wanted it." The woman in the song may want to stay over, but it's much better to live in a time when adults can just fuck when they want to fuck.

Some radio stations decided that this song from a fucked up time in America is no longer relevant to their listeners and decided not to play it any more. Other people are outraged by that fact, why I'm not sure.
I completely agree with your first paragraph. There were repercussions way beyond just having busy bodies up in your business back then. Birth control (pre-pill) was pretty fraught and negative effects were all on the woman.

Your second paragraph? Eh. I don't care if people still play it or not. It's a fairly silly little nothing of a song. I like a lot of Frank Loesser's songs, but this one is not one of his best.
  #125  
Old 12-10-2018, 05:31 PM
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One side greatly outnumbers(and outshouts) the other, and when met with little to no resistance shouts all the louder.
That doesn't make this a hill to fight over. "Happy Holidays", sure, acknowledge various cultures. Not putting up religious displays on public land, sure. Trying to make this song into a paean for date rape or lack of agency? Nope. One side might be louder but both sides are stupid.
  #126  
Old 12-11-2018, 07:11 AM
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I completely agree with your first paragraph. There were repercussions way beyond just having busy bodies up in your business back then. Birth control (pre-pill) was pretty fraught and negative effects were all on the woman.

Your second paragraph? Eh. I don't care if people still play it or not. It's a fairly silly little nothing of a song. I like a lot of Frank Loesser's songs, but this one is not one of his best.
Good to know.
  #127  
Old 12-11-2018, 07:58 AM
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Of course, we all understand that a few radio stations deciding not air a song is not censorship.
  #128  
Old 12-11-2018, 10:35 AM
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Private companies, of course, can do whatever they want. But should they? Should public readings of Huck Finn be allowed?

Last edited by Skywatcher; 12-11-2018 at 10:38 AM.
  #129  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:06 AM
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Private companies, of course, can do whatever they want. But should they? Should public readings of Huck Finn be allowed?
By whom?
  #130  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:41 AM
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Radio stations decide whether or not to play "Baby, It's Cold Outside": https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/07/enter...ide/index.html

Interesting story. That programming director sounds like kind of a cool guy.

I thought the point about hip hop was well stated. Itís not even comparable, how much worse the gender politics is in many rap songs.


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During the last couple of years i've re-watched the Thin Man movies, and the one thing that really stood out to me (when it's a familiar movie I notice the details a lot more) was the size of the glasses.

There's one scene where Nick is sitting at the bar with six or seven cocktails lined up in front of him. The glasses are tiny. The equivalent amount of alcohol today would maybe stretch to two glasses. Now, I check it out when watching movies of that vintage, and it's the same thing. Compared to today, the drink portions were very small. One or two gulps (five sips?) max.

Huh, interesting. Do you think those drinks were maybe stronger?
  #131  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:52 AM
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2 whole stations? Wow!
There are 11, 341 commercial radio station is the U.S., which means we are talking about 0.017% percent of the radio stations that have stopped(or temporarily stopped) playing this one song. Of course I haven't filtered out news stations and the like...but if you could, through various filters, get the number of effected stations up to a whopping 0.1% I would be surprised. When you throw in the number of stations that have added the song or played it more often just to make headlines, then I daresay this has actually turned from an incredibly minuscule problem to to an actual plus as far as that song is concerned.
Then filter out stations that would never play it anyways. In Canada a bunch of big names have pulled it from their Christmas stations/playlists.
Quote:
On Tuesday, a handful of all-Christmas music stations owned by Canadian broadcasters, including Corus Entertainment, Bell Media, Rogers and CBC Radio, said the 1940s song will not be played during its holiday programming.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4731417/b...-radio-canada/

Those are all big players in the Canadian market.
  #132  
Old 12-11-2018, 11:56 AM
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Then filter out stations that would never play it anyways. In Canada a bunch of big names have pulled it from their Christmas stations/playlists.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4731417/b...-radio-canada/

Those are all big players in the Canadian market.
How do I filter out Canadian stations from the list of commercial U.S. stations I mentioned?
  #133  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:03 PM
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You don't. I'm merely pointing out that it's happening at more than the 2 stations you're scoffing at.
  #134  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:06 PM
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You don't. I'm merely pointing out that it's happening at more than the 2 stations you're scoffing at.
I specifically mentioned U.S. stations, which was reinforced by the statistics concerning U.S. stations that I posted. Once again, please tell me how I filter out Canadian stations from a list of U.S. stations.
  #135  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:23 PM
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It sucks because there is no other way to hear a song than on broadcasts over the airwaves. It's not like you could download and play it, or go to some magical Pandora's Box of music and request it. Anyone not currently humming, singing or playing the song right this minute is engaged in censorship of the worst kind.
  #136  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:24 PM
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Once again, please tell me how I filter out Canadian stations from a list of U.S. stations.
If the call letters start with C, they're Canadian. K or W, American.

Don't mention it.
  #137  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:27 PM
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If the call letters start with C, they're Canadian. K or W, American.

Don't mention it.
I check my list of U.S. Stations, and apparently all the ones starting with the letter "C" have already been filtered out, and therefore have no bearing at all with that list.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:35 PM
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Chillax dude. Sorry if it was confusing but I was making two different points. A bunch of Canadian stations are dropping the song. Also, you can't just filter out news and sports stations because alt rock and hip hop stations were also never going to play the song. A number of stations go all-Christmas this time of year; how many of them have dropped the song would be a good number to know.
  #139  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:39 PM
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The phrase "what's in this drink?" at the time was more or less code for, "Holy shit! Did I just say that out loud?"
  #140  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:48 PM
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They better go after Jingle Bells next--after all, how are one-horse open sleighs relevant to modern listeners?
Jingle Bells promotes animal cruelty, the way the riders make that poor horse dash through the snow while they laugh and sing.

(I just made that up, nobody tell PETA)
  #141  
Old 12-11-2018, 12:48 PM
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Chillax dude. Sorry if it was confusing but I was making two different points. A bunch of Canadian stations are dropping the song. Also, you can't just filter out news and sports stations because alt rock and hip hop stations were also never going to play the song. A number of stations go all-Christmas this time of year; how many of them have dropped the song would be a good number to know.
Would have been a lot less confusing if you hadn't quoted the U.S. statistics I posted, then asked me to filter out Canadian stations from those stats.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:54 PM
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I didn't ask you to filter out Canadian stations. Yes, I guess I should have done a couple one sentence paragraphs.
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:05 PM
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Make that one U.S. station-San Francisco station KOIT has reversed the ban.
Translation for those following the story on Facebook: "HALF THE RADIO STATIONS ARE BANNING THIS SONG!!!!!"

Last edited by Czarcasm; 12-11-2018 at 01:08 PM.
  #144  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:08 PM
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Czarcasm, you are being awfully nitpicky and tendentious. The point is, it’s not just some myth that stations are pulling the song. Why shouldn’t Canadian stations count?

ETA: Not sure if I posed this question last year, but: why is this even a Christmas song at all? Most of the coldest time of year is in January and February.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 12-11-2018 at 01:11 PM.
  #145  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:12 PM
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Czarcasm, you are being awfully nitpicky and tendentious. The point is, itís not just some myth that stations are pulling the song. Why shouldnít Canadian stations count?
Since I am not a resident of Canada, I have no opinion on that.
Any residents of Canada care to weigh in on this part of the story?
  #146  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:13 PM
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Czarcasm, you are being awfully nitpicky and tendentious. The point is, itís not just some myth that stations are pulling the song. Why shouldnít Canadian stations count?
Are you joking with this? Even if 5 or 10 stations pulled the song, so what? Aren't there 1000s of stations? .01% of a group doing something is not 'OMG! IT'S CENSORSHIP AND THE WORST THING EVER!"

  #147  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:18 PM
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ETA: Not sure if I posed this question last year, but: why is this even a Christmas song at all? Most of the coldest time of year is in January and February.
Because it's a Winter song. Jingle Bells also has no mention of Christmas. Btw, it was -4F (-20C) here in Ottawa last week.

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Since I am not a resident of Canada, I have no opinion on that.
Any residents of Canada care to weigh in on this part of the story?
I am Canadian and this "ban" seems a lot more pervasive here. I think it's crap because I always took the playful banter interpretation of the song. The Dean Martin version is my wife's favorite Christmas song.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-11-2018 at 01:19 PM.
  #148  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
I am Canadian and this "ban" seems a lot more pervasive here. I think it's crap because I always took the playful banter interpretation of the song. The Dean Martin version is my wife's favorite Christmas song.
Since the ban is(or will be) wide-spread there, is there any great media uproar to match the hullabaloo that has taken place from only a couple of stations banning it in the U.S.?
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Old 12-11-2018, 01:30 PM
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Well, I'm not big on Facebook but from people I've talked it's mostly a "wtf? That's stupid". The CBC itself was carrying it as a news story for a couple days but no, I haven't seen much hullabaloo.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-11-2018 at 01:31 PM.
  #150  
Old 12-11-2018, 02:32 PM
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Yeah, the whole "But how MANY stations" is some bizarre argument by proxy versus stupid Facebook memes. I don't think anyone here is insisting that there's a nationwide banking going on or anything. If you want to argue with Facebook memes, that's best done on Facebook.
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