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  #151  
Old 12-11-2018, 04:30 PM
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Huh, interesting. Do you think those drinks were maybe stronger?
No idea. The only thing I found with cursory googling is that home distilled alcohol was much stronger during Prohibition than commercial varieties. However, the Thin Man movies (and most I've watched with this in mind) were made after Prohibition was repealed. So, I'd guess that Nick was not drinking anything stronger than today.
  #152  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:13 PM
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By whom?
I'm trying to see how far you're willing to take your argument from post 109. If all you have is pointless division and fake outrage, so be it.
  #153  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:36 PM
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I'm trying to see how far you're willing to take your argument from post 109. If all you have is pointless division and fake outrage, so be it.
Supposed test aside, how about answering the question: Prohibited by whom?
  #154  
Old 12-11-2018, 05:42 PM
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I'm trying to see how far you're willing to take your argument from post 109. If all you have is pointless division and fake outrage, so be it.
Are you of the opinion that people not agreeing with you on the value of a work of art is akin to censorship? That’s not how it works.

ETA: and it’s a fairly narcissistic view of reality.

Last edited by madmonk28; 12-11-2018 at 05:43 PM.
  #155  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:07 AM
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Are you joking with this? Even if 5 or 10 stations pulled the song, so what? Aren't there 1000s of stations? .01% of a group doing something is not 'OMG! IT'S CENSORSHIP AND THE WORST THING EVER!"


You are the one guilty of hyperbole in search of a strawman. No one here that I’ve seen has called it “the worst thing ever”, certainly I have not. I started the thread to defend the song because it was taking a lot of heat (including in a pointed satire on SNL). That doesn’t mean I think it’s the great issue of our times, so simmer down now.


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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
Yeah, the whole "But how MANY stations" is some bizarre argument by proxy versus stupid Facebook memes. I don't think anyone here is insisting that there's a nationwide banking going on or anything. If you want to argue with Facebook memes, that's best done on Facebook.

Yes. It’s strange that if we defend the song against criticism, that means we suddenly have to take responsibility for every outraged reaction on Facebook (none of which I have seen BTW).


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Originally Posted by carrps View Post
No idea. The only thing I found with cursory googling is that home distilled alcohol was much stronger during Prohibition than commercial varieties. However, the Thin Man movies (and most I've watched with this in mind) were made after Prohibition was repealed. So, I'd guess that Nick was not drinking anything stronger than today.

I wasn’t thinking of the liquor being stronger, but that maybe they used less mixer.
  #156  
Old 12-12-2018, 05:38 AM
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Jingle Bells promotes animal cruelty, the way the riders make that poor horse dash through the snow while they laugh and sing.

(I just made that up, nobody tell PETA)
You're closer than you think. There are more verses - the second one gives us:

The horse was lean and lank
Misfortune seemed his lot
He got into a drifted bank
And then we got upsot
[sic]

And in the last verse:

Just get a bobtailed bay
Two forty as his speed[b]
Hitch him to an open sleigh
And crack! you'll take the lead.


So one horse gets stuck in a "drifted bank" and has the sleigh he's tied to overturned, and another gets whipped. Horse cruelty all over the place.

But at least no one is trying to get the horse drunk and seduce it.
  #157  
Old 12-12-2018, 05:54 AM
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Well, for this season Baby It's Cold Outside is safe. Had a big boost in sales.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/people....ntroversy/amp/
I'm sure the Snowflake generation will be back next year attacking our holiday traditions again.

I'm not sure poor Rudolph and Charlie Brown's Thanksgiving will get aired next year. I sure hope so.

Charlie Brown Christmas airs Dec 20. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Last edited by aceplace57; 12-12-2018 at 05:58 AM.
  #158  
Old 12-12-2018, 06:05 AM
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A reversal at CBC:

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...ack-on-the-air
Quote:
The “overwhelming” desire of CBC Music listeners to be able to hear Baby It’s Cold Outside has prompted the public broadcaster to resume playing the song after a week’s hiatus.
  #159  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
Well, for this season Baby It's Cold Outside is safe. Had a big boost in sales.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/people....ntroversy/amp/
I'm sure the Snowflake generation will be back next year attacking our holiday traditions again...
Wouldn't the snowflakes be the people who freak out because other people don't like a particular song? And as for the snowflake generation, my vote is on white baby boomers. They've been pandered to by all aspects of culture for over fifty years and now that their stranglehold on what is and is not allowed is starting to finally loosen, they lose their shit.
  #160  
Old 12-12-2018, 08:49 AM
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Yeah, I guess there was more hullabaloo than I realized.
  #161  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:09 AM
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But at least no one is trying to get the horse drunk and seduce it.

I will go so far as to say there’s nothing wrong with trying to get a lady friend drunk to lower her inhibitions, and then to try to seduce her—so long as she knows you are offering alcohol and is free to refuse it, and she never gets so drunk she loses consciousness or is unable to understand what is going on around her.
  #162  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:29 AM
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Wouldn't the snowflakes be the people who freak out because other people don't like a particular song?
I doubt anyone gives a shit if someone "doesn't like" a song. It's the whole erroneously slapping the "OMG Date Rape Song!" label on it and trying to get it removed from airplay that people object to.

It's like someone crusading against "Puff the Magic Dragon" because they've convinced themselves that it's all about weed. It's not that I'm deeply invested in the song playing on the radio, but I'm not the one at fault for calling out someone else being wrong and then acting on their misconceptions.
  #163  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:35 AM
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Wait: “Puff the Magic Dragon” is NOT about weed? The devil, you say!
  #164  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:36 AM
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Wait: “Puff the Magic Dragon” is NOT about weed? The devil, you say!
That's right! It's about the devil!
  #165  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:42 AM
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And just how do you interpret the line "What's the sense in hurting my pride?" His pride will be broken if she leaves? If I were the woman in that sign and a man used that excuseto try to make me stay, I'd be tempted to hurt a lot more than his pride.
  #166  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:43 AM
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You are the one guilty of hyperbole in search of a strawman. No one here that I’ve seen has called it “the worst thing ever”, certainly I have not. I started the thread to defend the song because it was taking a lot of heat (including in a pointed satire on SNL). That doesn’t mean I think it’s the great issue of our times, so simmer down now.
But it's NOT taking a lot of heat. That's the point. It's a made up outrage that you seem to have fallen for.
  #167  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:56 AM
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The “overwhelming” desire of CBC Music listeners to be able to hear Baby It’s Cold Outside has prompted the public broadcaster to resume playing the song after a week’s hiatus.
Shows that it's all a stunt. Station pulls song, listeners divide into two camps, national debate ensues. Add revenues go up. Ban is lifted.

Maybe the next step is to make a station that ONLY plays BICO. Every version by everyone that sang it, and nothing else.

This is why I have my own Christmas playlist. No crappy songs like this one to make my season unbright.
  #168  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:58 AM
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The CBC most definitely did not do it to "pull a stunt". They're not a commercial radio station.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-12-2018 at 09:59 AM.
  #169  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:02 AM
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But it's NOT taking a lot of heat. That's the point. It's a made up outrage that you seem to have fallen for.
I hadn’t heard about this Facebook movement until I read it here. Then one of my FB friends mentioned it today, saying he has seen dozens of posts about it over the past week or two. I have yet to see a single one.

I started this thread because of the SNL sketch (is that made up too?, and people online expressing similar opinions. It was never about censorship. Why is it okay for other people to criticize the song, but not for me to defend it?
  #170  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:06 AM
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A Colorado radio station had also pulled the song and then restored it following a listener poll
Quote:
“Baby, It’s Cold Outside” lives on at Colorado’s Christmas radio station KOSI 101.1 despite originally being yanked off the air.
[...]
The online poll generated more than 15,000 responses, and 95 percent of them voted to keep the tune rolling, KOSI 101.1 Program Director Jim Lawson wrote in a statement posted on the station’s website.

“We value the opinion of all our listeners and appreciate the feedback we received,” Lawson said. “While we are sensitive to those who may be upset by some of the lyrics, the majority of our listeners have expressed their interpretation of the song to be non-offensive.”
  #171  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:15 AM
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I hadn’t heard about this Facebook movement until I read it here. Then one of my FB friends mentioned it today, saying he has seen dozens of posts about it over the past week or two. I have yet to see a single one.

I started this thread because of the SNL sketch (is that made up too?, and people online expressing similar opinions. It was never about censorship. Why is it okay for other people to criticize the song, but not for me to defend it?
It's okay for you to defend it, sure.

What I'm saying is you, and your FB friend apparently, think "dozens" of posts over a week is outrage. The original radio station pulled the song after ONE listener called in. There are 350 million people in this country. "Dozens" of posts doesn't mean there is a national outrage that you need to defend.

It similar to various posts I see that say "Dems are OUTRAGED over something!" when the "outrage" is 3 people on Twitter saying it.
  #172  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:20 AM
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If the radio stations wanted to take the song off-air, they should have done so quietly and discreetly. Making a big hullabaloo about it simply triggered the Streisand Effect.
  #173  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:22 AM
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If the radio stations wanted to take the song off-air, they should have done so quietly and discreetly. Making a big hullabaloo about it simply triggered the Streisand Effect.
It was a stunt, and it worked.
  #174  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:13 AM
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It's okay for you to defend it, sure.

What I'm saying is you, and your FB friend apparently, think "dozens" of posts over a week is outrage. The original radio station pulled the song after ONE listener called in. There are 350 million people in this country. "Dozens" of posts doesn't mean there is a national outrage that you need to defend.

It seems you’re still not getting it. I created this thread in 2017, long before this current cultural moment. It was to defend the song, not to defend any “outrage”.

You also seem not to understand how Facebook differs from something like Twitter. If my friend is seeing “seemingly dozens of posts a DAY” (probably exaggeration, but apparently it’s a lot) that means those are only from the people in his social group. Not from among 350 million people.

If people on here are reporting seeing a lot of these posts, and my friend from a (presumably) different social circle is reporting seeing a lot of them, it starts to seem likely it’s a pretty sizable trend—although, as I noted, I have yet to see such a post myself. But then, most of the people I have told Facebook to show me posts from are liberals under 50.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 12-12-2018 at 11:14 AM.
  #175  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:23 AM
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But the vast majority of those that are outraged on Facebook support the song-they fell for the hype and are ready to take up arms against a mostly nonexistent monster.
  #176  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:33 AM
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You're closer than you think. There are more verses - the second one gives us:

The horse was lean and lank
Misfortune seemed his lot
He got into a drifted bank
And then we got upsot
[sic]

And in the last verse:

Just get a bobtailed bay
Two forty as his speed[b]
Hitch him to an open sleigh
And crack! you'll take the lead.


So one horse gets stuck in a "drifted bank" and has the sleigh he's tied to overturned, and another gets whipped. Horse cruelty all over the place.

But at least no one is trying to get the horse drunk and seduce it.
Next verse (usually omitted).
  #177  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:37 AM
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It seems you’re still not getting it. I created this thread in 2017, long before this current cultural moment. It was to defend the song, not to defend any “outrage”.
Well, you got me on that. I didn't realize this thread was from 2017.

Quote:
You also seem not to understand how Facebook differs from something like Twitter. If my friend is seeing “seemingly dozens of posts a DAY” (probably exaggeration, but apparently it’s a lot) that means those are only from the people in his social group. Not from among 350 million people
I do understand how Facebook works. And if 12 of my friends were "outraged" about something, I wouldn't come here and defend whatever they were outraged about. (Again, less appropriate due to the start date of this thread) But in general, I don't let my friend's "outrage" about something lead me to believe it is a great thing that needs defending to anyone but those friends.
  #178  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:38 AM
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But the vast majority of those that are outraged on Facebook support the song-they fell for the hype and are ready to take up arms against a mostly nonexistent monster.
Well, there is that one person who called the radio station. Can we take up arms against him/her?
  #179  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:59 AM
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BTW, has there been any mention of which version of BICO is under discussion?

[Anecdote]My wife and I drove to my sister’s home about 250 miles away last weekend, and we had a holiday music channel on the satellite station for both legs of the trip. We heard the song being sung by James Taylor/Natalie Cole; Dean Martin/Golddiggers; Lady Antebellum; Dean Martin/Martina McBride; Blake Shelton/Gwen Stefani; Seth MacFarlane/Sara Bareilles; Rod Stewart/Dolly Parton and Brett Eldridge/Meghan Trainor (I think they left out Michael Buble/Idina Menzel because they thought it would be overkill).[/Anecdote]
  #180  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:00 PM
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But the vast majority of those that are outraged on Facebook support the song

Yes, I’m quite aware of that, and have been all along (which is to say, when I read the mentions of the FB outrage here, and then when I read my friend’s post about them). This is why when I said I hadn’t actually seen any of these posts, it’s probably because I don’t have older conservatives in my timeline. I’m aware that those are the cohort most likely to get their dander up about this kind of thing, even though I’m sort of generally on their side (until they start ranting and raving about “snowflakes” or whatever). If you interpreted my comments as meaning something different, you may want to go back and reread them with that understanding.


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Well, you got me on that. I didn't realize this thread was from 2017.

Ahhhh...okay, that explains a lot.

Last edited by SlackerInc; 12-12-2018 at 01:03 PM.
  #181  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:04 PM
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2016
  #182  
Old 12-12-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
2016
I was just about to come back and note that correction! How the time flies.

Just now was the first time I had read the OP this year. One thing I enjoyed about it in its original iteration was that we generally focused more on my complaint that no one performs the song correctly (or more specifically, that there are a couple women who do it right and one man—Seth McFarlane—who nails it, but never both in the same version).
  #183  
Old 12-12-2018, 02:31 PM
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I've always found talky songs difficult to pull off.

It's different from singing. You have to talk, but still stay on pitch. Staying in rhythm is tricky.

I've seen Baby It's Cold done at various holiday parties. It's not quite the same as the record.

I remember an old gf wanted me to sing it with her. We quickly picked another song for the party.

Last edited by aceplace57; 12-12-2018 at 02:35 PM.
  #184  
Old 12-12-2018, 02:56 PM
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How would you say it comes across at parties? I have never seen this, but I know that is how it started.
  #185  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:07 PM
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Party versions are hard to describe. I remember more regular speech instead of the sing/talk you hear Dean Martin use. Depends on how much everyone's had to drink.

Dean's version is my favorite. The woman's part sounds like a blend of several singers. This is the version I keep in my Christmas playlist.

https://youtu.be/crFQpOCDfEc

Last edited by aceplace57; 12-12-2018 at 03:09 PM.
  #186  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:16 PM
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The CBC most definitely did not do it to "pull a stunt". They're not a commercial radio station.
They still need listeners. And donations.
  #187  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:24 PM
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They still need listeners. And donations.
No, they don't. They are government funded. The television side has ads, which requires viewers, but the the radio side is ad free and doesn't get donations. It's not like NPR.
  #188  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:24 PM
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Doesn't Dean's version seem less awkward than the original? It seems more playful and silly.

I rarely hear the original version and I've never seen the movie. I watched the YouTube video. It's certainly very dated by today's values.

That's true of a lot of the old movies. Relationships were depicted from a masculine view that seem so odd compared to today. It's a reminder of how much society has changed.

Last edited by aceplace57; 12-12-2018 at 03:27 PM.
  #189  
Old 12-12-2018, 03:44 PM
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Not a fan of Dean-o’s version. As I said (somewhat ungrammatically) in the OP, it’s too “uptempo and unvarying a swing, and having the female part be a chorus makes no sense.”

I would say few people alive have heard the original version, as it was a sort of party trick the songwriter and his wife would perform at parties. I suspect it was better than the versions I’m complaining about, but who knows.
  #190  
Old 12-12-2018, 04:05 PM
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The original in the movie can look bad, because it's a little physical. In my impression, they are basically doing a dance but it can definitely be interpreted as way too pushy. It's funny because with all the people hoping for a gender flip, that happens in the original movie with similar physicality.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fRGZULIkfwE
(both versions from Neptune's Daughter)

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-12-2018 at 04:08 PM.
  #191  
Old 12-12-2018, 05:35 PM
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I was just about to come back and note that correction! How the time flies.

Just now was the first time I had read the OP this year. One thing I enjoyed about it in its original iteration was that we generally focused more on my complaint that no one performs the song correctly (or more specifically, that there are a couple women who do it right and one man—Seth McFarlane—who nails it, but never both in the same version).
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I've always found talky songs difficult to pull off.

It's different from singing. You have to talk, but still stay on pitch. Staying in rhythm is tricky.

I've seen Baby It's Cold done at various holiday parties. It's not quite the same as the record.

I remember an old gf wanted me to sing it with her. We quickly picked another song for the party.
BICO outside has a special quality. It's a performance song. The woman isn't talking to the man: she's talking to the audience, goosing them about society's ridiculous morals and sanctions. The man is there only to balance the performance. The song could be done by a woman talking to an offstage man whose lines are never heard and it would still work. The audience would get the point just as well.
  #192  
Old 12-13-2018, 09:25 AM
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In a similar vein, a story about a high school student play featuring KKK costumes blew up here. While lots of students may well be shocked (I would be) there was only one parent who complained.

In any event, the KKK members in The Foreigner were ridiculed.
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Originally Posted by Wiki
Owen finds Charlie alone and threatens him, saying that when the Ku Klux Klan is in power, they will kill all the foreigners. Charlie cheerfully babbles some words, then sets out to frighten Owen:

Charlie: (Same voice.) Hello! Good-bye! One-two-three. (Owen snorts, looks away. Pause. Different tone.) I look tru your bones. (Owen looks at him, startled by this. Charlie looks back with ancient eyes and the ghost of a smile.)
Owen: (Finally.) You say what?
Charlie: Yes. Me see. Moon get beeg. You sleep—sleep out, out. All you skin—bye-bye. I come. I look tru your bones.
Owen: What you talkin' about, mister?
Charlie: (His eyes close.) Round an' round, and in de town— . (His eyes open slightly, still looking at Owen.) Gonna look into your bones, when de bees come down.
...
Through the window they see headlights and torches as some Klan members approach.
...
Charlie sends Catherine and Ellard upstairs, and he and Betty face five men wearing sheets over their heads. Owen says that they will kill Charlie and destroy the house with the munitions in the van outside, and that Betty, Catherine and Ellard will disappear. Charlie, recalling the science fiction he has read, alarms Owen with more "Hoodoo talk":

You—dare—to—affront—me? I, who have lain in wait, lo, these many centuries for such a night as this! ... I, child of Hrothgar and of Moloch! I, whom the Old Ones have given suck, to rise now from the forest mold and smite thee! Klatu! Barada! Nikto! ... You dare to sneer at me! You—puny earthling![7]

With the help of the trap-door to the cellar, Charlie appears to disintegrate a Klansman, and the rest run away in terror.
  #193  
Old 12-13-2018, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase View Post
BICO outside has a special quality. It's a performance song. The woman isn't talking to the man: she's talking to the audience, goosing them about society's ridiculous morals and sanctions. The man is there only to balance the performance. The song could be done by a woman talking to an offstage man whose lines are never heard and it would still work. The audience would get the point just as well.
Who would have thought a song knocked out to encourage people to go home because the party was over had such deep nuance and actually meant the exact opposite?
  #194  
Old 12-18-2018, 10:09 AM
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Radio statton plays 2 hour Baby It's Cold Outside marathon

Pooh on the ones who ban it.
  #195  
Old 12-18-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kaylasdad99 View Post
...My wife and I drove to my sister’s home about 250 miles away last weekend, and we had a holiday music channel on the satellite station for both legs of the trip. We heard the song being sung by James Taylor/Natalie Cole; Dean Martin/Golddiggers; Lady Antebellum; Dean Martin/Martina McBride; Blake Shelton/Gwen Stefani; Seth MacFarlane/Sara Bareilles; Rod Stewart/Dolly Parton and Brett Eldridge/Meghan Trainor (I think they left out Michael Buble/Idina Menzel because they thought it would be overkill)....
Well, I'm glad they didn't play it too much.

Last edited by Elendil's Heir; 12-18-2018 at 11:08 AM.
  #196  
Old 12-18-2018, 11:22 AM
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Even though I started the thread to defend the song, hearing it covered by various people for hours on end sounds like effective psychological warfare.
  #197  
Old 12-18-2018, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by SlackerInc View Post
Even though I started the thread to defend the song, hearing it covered by various people for hours on end sounds like effective psychological warfare.
Could be worse, could be Santa Baby for hours.....
  #198  
Old 12-18-2018, 05:00 PM
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I think the best defense is it's a 74 year old song, written by and for people that don't think like we do in a lot of ways. So are a lot of books. Shall we have a nice book burning next?

Has Peta tried to ban Pepe Le Pew reruns, for him sexually assaulting cats in a children's show yet? Surely that must be offensive to somebody.
  #199  
Old 12-18-2018, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
I think the best defense is it's a 74 year old song, written by and for people that don't think like we do in a lot of ways. So are a lot of books. Shall we have a nice book burning next?

Has Peta tried to ban Pepe Le Pew reruns, for him sexually assaulting cats in a children's show yet? Surely that must be offensive to somebody.
Cite for anyone advocating erasing the song from history?
  #200  
Old 12-19-2018, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by madmonk28 View Post
Cite for anyone advocating erasing the song from history?
It's not about erasing, it's about censorship.
Reply

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