Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 06-25-2017, 09:55 PM
Sam Lowry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
I thought the film was visually perfect, but it was emotionally dead. It somehow lost the heart of the story while trying to remain faithful.

One of the important missteps was making the "heroes" into superhuman fighters. Only Ozymandias should have been more than a humanly competent fighter. The jailbreak scene was particularly egregious showing Owlman and Silk Spectre displaying superhuman abilities.
I didn't think the movie was emotionally dead but I did feel like something was missing. And I do remember that fight scene and thinking that it was like that because this was a superhero movie and there needed to be something for the trailers, not because it fit well.

I liked the movie OK, thought it was nothing great but also not terrible. But even if the movie was great, I would be interested in a TV show, just because it can give more depth and go into more of the story and expand on it some.

Also the movie didn't have great casting across the board. Jeffrey Dean Morgan as The Comedian and Jackie Earle Haley as Rorshach were perfect. While Matthew Goode is a good actor who has been great in other things, but he wasn't the right choice for Ozymandias. And Malin Akerman is a good comedic actress in other things (I don't remember if I've seen her in any dramas), she wasn't good as Silk Spectre, though that also could be because of writing and directing.
  #52  
Old 06-26-2017, 08:52 AM
FlyingRat is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Lowry View Post
Also the movie didn't have great casting across the board. Jeffrey Dean Morgan as The Comedian and Jackie Earle Haley as Rorshach were perfect. While Matthew Goode is a good actor who has been great in other things, but he wasn't the right choice for Ozymandias. And Malin Akerman is a good comedic actress in other things (I don't remember if I've seen her in any dramas), she wasn't good as Silk Spectre, though that also could be because of writing and directing.
I agree with you on all of the above. I really liked Patrick Wilson as Nite Owl, too - he seemed to really get into the role (and I heard he was a huge fan of the character to start with).
  #53  
Old 06-26-2017, 02:52 PM
iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 12,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
What? Rorschach was the complete antithesis of moral relativism.

But moving beyond that (Seriously? Moral relativism?) I stand by what I wrote in March.
There's been a lot of comment on this that I think is mostly in agreement with my previous post, but, yes, moral relativism.

The Rorschach Test is about imposing personal meaning on meaninglessness. His mask is a shifting series of black and white shapes (but never shades of grey).

Quote:
That's the basis of nihilism. It says you should decide for yourself what is moral and what is immoral. You shouldn't think something is wrong just because you were told that God thinks it's wrong or your parents told you it's wrong or the government tells you it's wrong.
Yeah, I can see that point of view that Rorschach, the character, is a moral nihilist. But that statement is also pretty much a statement of moral relativism. There are morals, but they are individual interpretations, not inherent or universal. Either way, Rorschach is at a different end of at least one moral dimension than the Comedian, who clearly has no moral code whatsoever.

I'd again ask for specific things the filmmakers should have done differently. I mean, if the film just didn't hit you emotionally, that's one thing (hey, art is subjective, that's a valid opinion), but saying that the film didn't convey the themes of the original is more of an objective claim. What did it miss? How could it have done so?
  #54  
Old 06-26-2017, 05:03 PM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 59,367
There are two minor changes I'd make to the film:

1. Speed up the scene where the Comedian shoots his pregnant former girlfriend - there's a wholly unnecessary pause while he points his gun at her before he fires.

2. Trim down the love scene between Dan and Laurie in the Owlship. It went on waaaay too long and in my theatre, the audience was starting to chuckle.
  #55  
Old 06-27-2017, 11:55 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,816
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3= View Post
I'd again ask for specific things the filmmakers should have done differently. I mean, if the film just didn't hit you emotionally, that's one thing (hey, art is subjective, that's a valid opinion), but saying that the film didn't convey the themes of the original is more of an objective claim. What did it miss? How could it have done so?
In my opinion, part of it is just that they made it as a film instead of doing a version for TV: even though it's just 12 comic books, they pretty much had to pare away everything that didn't directly relate to the superhero plot to get it down to a runtime of, what, somewhere between two-and-a-half hours and three?

So, consider a specific: Dan breaking Rorschach out of prison. In the book, there's a set-up: he's visited by Steven Fine, an NYPD detective who (a) doesn't come out and say it, but (b) lets him know that, hey, based on what the reader has seen, I've put together that you're Nite Owl -- and, while I'm willing to look the other way when it comes to you rescuing those people from a burning building, don't make this a thing where I'm going to have to come back here and arrest you, okay?

And, well, that's pretty cool. I mean, we've seen Fine working multiple cases with his partner; and so it matters when we see his partner trying to talk him down later: when, despite being in hot water due to not acting on those suspicions, he's still out there on the street, trying to break up a fight, when he dies, and he matters to us.

And that warning from Fine has ramifications for Dan, too: he knows he's going to be a fugitive on the run, hiding out under a dye job and a new name, as a result of that prison break, and so it matters more when he does it anyway. And while he never seems to figure out that Hollis gets murdered as a result of that prison break, we see it play out and we see the effect that has on Dan likewise: we've seen more of Hollis, and we see how much he meant to the guy, and it's all meaningful.

And all of that Is cut from the movie to get it down to a still-a-little-long runtime, and so the prison break -- which, in the book, is just Dan punching one guy while Laurie knees one guy in the balls -- gets done as a wow-look-at-that action scene.

I could do that same kind of description for other examples: the 'backstory' stuff gets cut, and the almost-an-afterthought fight scene that's left in gets made -- well, more cinematic, if you see where I'm going with this.

(Though if you are committed to doing it as a three-hour movie, for heaven's sake don't make Veidt a chilly guy with a German accent. I mean, either you think he really is a warm and generous hero with a big heart, or at the very least you think he's pretty much the best in the world at faking it; that carries the whole story!)

Last edited by The Other Waldo Pepper; 06-27-2017 at 11:56 AM.
  #56  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:19 PM
Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 86,279
Bumped.

A new trailer is out. Check out the revised 51-star American flag at 1:02, and President Robert Redford on the classroom poster at 1:19: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yKq1PRvPJQ

Jeremy Irons is playing an older Adrian Veidt, it seems....
  #57  
Old 07-22-2019, 01:48 PM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 19,475
That trailer gave me a headache just trying to follow along.
  #58  
Old 07-23-2019, 05:21 AM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,975
The trailer looks...interesting. Clearly this is a "years later" sort of Watchmen. Could be good, could be "Doomsday Clock" awful.
  #59  
Old 07-23-2019, 09:33 AM
monstro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 20,797
I love Regina King so I am down for it. Even though I am not at all looped in about what Watchmen are all about.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
__________________
What the hell is a signature?
  #60  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:35 AM
DigitalC is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 11,181
That trailer looks awesome and I'm all in for this. I think a big part of what made the Watchmen movie feel "off" was that it was made during the height of the "wire-fu" style action sequences, and it always looks ridiculous outside of Japanese martial arts movies.
  #61  
Old 07-23-2019, 02:19 PM
DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
That trailer gave me a headache just trying to follow along.

That obnoxious sound overlay. ecch, when it on, I have to mute or FF, so I have only heard it once. HBO- making your previews obnoxious is not a way to gain viewers.
  #62  
Old 07-23-2019, 03:24 PM
BeagleJesus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstro View Post
I love Regina King so I am down for it...Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
+1

To me, she will always be Brenda from 227
  #63  
Old 07-26-2019, 10:37 AM
Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 86,279
Robert Redford will play... President Robert Redford: https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/07/26/...hbos-watchmen/

The series will be set in 1992. Will they digitally de-age him, as they did for Michael Douglas in Ant-Man and Samuel Jackson in Captain Marvel?
  #64  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:47 PM
Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 86,279
Bumped.

A new trailer is out, and the show will premiere Oct. 20: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-33JCGEGzwU
  #65  
Old 10-04-2019, 08:34 PM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,828
I saw a significant chunk of the first episode today at comicon. It has a very different feel from the movie or book (and I loved the book and rather liked the movie, actually), but I think it has potential as a show as long as you let the source material go. But, the fanboys are going to hate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Robert Redford will play... President Robert Redford: https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/07/26/...hbos-watchmen/

The series will be set in 1992. Will they digitally de-age him, as they did for Michael Douglas in Ant-Man and Samuel Jackson in Captain Marvel?
It's set in current day.
  #66  
Old 10-04-2019, 10:22 PM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,828
Oh, one other thing, they clearly extended it from the squid ending, not the movie ending.
  #67  
Old 10-04-2019, 11:39 PM
thelurkinghorror is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Venial Sin City
Posts: 13,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Robert Redford will play... President Robert Redford: https://comicbook.com/dc/2019/07/26/...hbos-watchmen/

The series will be set in 1992. Will they digitally de-age him, as they did for Michael Douglas in Ant-Man and Samuel Jackson in Captain Marvel?
It's set in now-ish, he's just been President for 27 years because apparently the 22nd Amendment has been removed.

Also:
Quote:
The choice of Redford -- his run for the Presidency was hinted at in a single panel of Watchmen #12 -- has always been a little bit ironic in that context, since one of Redford's career-definining roles was playing Bob Woodward in All the President's Men.
Yeah, I've seen you control big parts of the government, you're not fooling anyone, Robert. HAIL HYDRA.
  #68  
Old 10-05-2019, 12:18 AM
Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 86,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
...It's set in current day.
The next-to-last paragraph of that article says it's set in 1992.
  #69  
Old 10-05-2019, 06:27 AM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
The next-to-last paragraph of that article says it's set in 1992.
The article is incorrect.
  #70  
Old 10-07-2019, 05:27 AM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,975
The book suggests that the reason Moore chose Robert Redford was in order to make jokes about an old Hollywood actor with the initials RR becoming president.
  #71  
Old 10-07-2019, 09:09 AM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,828
The show makes clear that Redford has taken advantage of the lack of term limits put in place by Nixon in the universe. We didn't see him in the episode they showed, but multiple references to him. Even the small Jeremy Irons scene they showed was very odd and I'm not sure what they're doing with that character. The episode was more centered around Regina King's character, who appears to be the real star of the show.
  #72  
Old 10-07-2019, 09:19 AM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,516
ivism and nihilism for the minute, what I want to know is, what does Moore think about his characters? Rorschach is just this side of a Nazi (he reads that extreme right wing rag that openly mocks Jews and others), the Comedian murdered Woodward and Bernstein, and of course Veidt murdered millions of people for "the greater good" with the only person who could stop him deciding to take a powder (Manhattan). The ostensibly "good" superhero is literally and figuratively impotent.

Does the author agree with these characters? The "bad guys" win in the end *, as far as my interpretation goes.



*nothing ever really ends.
  #73  
Old 10-07-2019, 09:35 AM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
ivism and nihilism for the minute,
I have no idea where my beginning went. It should read:

Ignoring moral relativism and nihilism for the minute
  #74  
Old 10-07-2019, 10:27 AM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 36,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
what I want to know is, what does Moore think about his characters?
Alan Moore is kind of a weirdo who professes odd beliefs. I like a lot of his work, but I've learned to put my own interpretation on it rather than look to explanations from him.
  #75  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:43 PM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,828
At the panel, Lindeloff specifically said that Moore instructed him not to use his name, and he praised him namelessly.
  #76  
Old 10-07-2019, 02:54 PM
Stowed Bob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Even the small Jeremy Irons scene they showed was very odd and I'm not sure what they're doing with that character.
Jeremy Irons may be Ozymandias. Note him riding horseback past a skull and crossbones flag. It could be a callback to Tales of the Black Freighter pirate illustrated book from the comics, whose story was a parallel to Ozymandias. Also, Jeremy's attire is very aristrocratic, much like Veidt wore.

As for what they're doing with him, the Calvary (the people in Rorschach masks) may be working to expose the deception Ozymandias perpetrated in the movie.

Last edited by Stowed Bob; 10-07-2019 at 02:54 PM.
  #77  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:34 PM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,828
He’s definitely Ozymadias. They winked and nodded about that.
  #78  
Old 10-08-2019, 01:52 PM
DrDeth is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
Alan Moore is kind of a weirdo who professes odd beliefs. I like a lot of his work, but I've learned to put my own interpretation on it rather than look to explanations from him.
Yeah, one of his books is kiddie porn lite, so very much a weirdo.
  #79  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:06 PM
Just Asking Questions is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 7,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
Alan Moore is kind of a weirdo who professes odd beliefs.
I think he hates his audience, too. Not that would be a real hindrance to enjoying his work, just something to keep in mind. Especially if you start looking to the Comedian for moral guidance.
  #80  
Old 10-15-2019, 03:00 PM
Quimby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,471
Was going to start a new thread but will just add to this one. It is getting great reviews. One TV reviewer I follow on Twitter said it was the best show of the new season (and maybe one of the best all time they added).

Here is another positive one. I was cautiously optimistic but now I think I am excited. It helps that I just read Doomsday Clock (DC's Watchmen/DCU crossover) which was not bad.
  #81  
Old 10-15-2019, 06:51 PM
thelurkinghorror is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Venial Sin City
Posts: 13,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
Was going to start a new thread but will just add to this one. It is getting great reviews. One TV reviewer I follow on Twitter said it was the best show of the new season (and maybe one of the best all time they added).

Here is another positive one. I was cautiously optimistic but now I think I am excited. It helps that I just read Doomsday Clock (DC's Watchmen/DCU crossover) which was not bad.
The important question is whether Alan Moore will hate it or really hate it.
  #82  
Old 10-16-2019, 10:26 AM
Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 86,279
My money's on really really really hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand, no, a million suns.
  #83  
Old 10-16-2019, 12:40 PM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quimby View Post
Here is another positive one. I was cautiously optimistic but now I think I am excited. It helps that I just read Doomsday Clock (DC's Watchmen/DCU crossover) which was not bad.
I read the first issue and it looked awful. Did it get any better?
  #84  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:55 PM
Quimby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
I read the first issue and it looked awful. Did it get any better?
I only read the first six issues but I liked it and want to see how it ends.
  #85  
Old 10-20-2019, 10:06 PM
D_Odds is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Queens
Posts: 12,860
Watched the premiere. Good enough that I'll be back. Saw some reviews - seems the portrayal of the Rorschach crew (7th Cavalry) had upset a certain demographic. Lots of reviewers threatening to cancel HBO due to their 'agenda'.
__________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected
  #86  
Old 10-20-2019, 10:14 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 29,156
I saw it, not having read the source material, and didn't understand much of what was going on. I'll read recaps and watch the later episodes and perhaps it will start to make sense.
  #87  
Old 10-20-2019, 11:07 PM
D_Odds is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Queens
Posts: 12,860
I believe this is all-new, set in the movie Watchmen universe. So there might not be any other source material, though an understanding of the movie and its characters would probably help. They left lots of dangling hooks attempting to lure viewers, new and old, back for future episodes.

That said, knowing the movie/comic would probably help in understanding the list of Presidents (the comic took place during the first name's terms and the last was never mentioned) and the outcome of the Vietnam War, but the exposition filled in enough to follow along.
__________________
The problem with political jokes is that they get elected
  #88  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:18 AM
ISiddiqui is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Decatur, Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,765
It actually seems to be set in comic Watchmen universe, not movie Watchmen. Hence the squids (and the Redford presidency).

I thought it was fantastic. Starting with the Tulsa race riots was pretty intense and then picking up in alternate 2019 dealing with white supremacists was an inspired choice. I also get amused by those upset about the politics - it's a sequel to The Watchmen, a super political comic book.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
  #89  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:48 AM
Quimby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,471
Yeah I thought maybe I was reading it deeper than intended but I saw parallels in the way the comic tackled one of the largest anxieties of its era (the cold war) with how this is tackling one of our present's anxieties (race and white supremacy).

There were a lot of background Easter eggs but I would imagine someone who has no knowledge of the comic would be very very confused and probably put off. I liked it quite a bit but suspect it's numbers will go down a lot in episode 2.
  #90  
Old 10-21-2019, 09:51 AM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,380
It's interesting that 40 years after the superhero ban which was instigated by a police uprising, the superheroes now are the police. It seems pretty evident that the US is pretty much a police state at this point, and the cops are definitely fascists, and are only heroic by dint of the fact that the 7th Cavalry (who've followed after Rorschach, who was after all a right-wing conspiracy kook) are even worse fascists. I guess that's appropriate for a modern-day adaptation of an Alan Moore satire.

While the kids are reciting the names of the presidents near the end, I believe I heard them say that Gerald Ford still managed to get a run in after Nixon, which is amusing. I also noticed a copy of Under the Hood by Hollis Mason on the desk in the chief's office, which was a nice Easter egg, as well as the old bank poster with Dollar Bill on it (no cape, though). The cars running on Dr. Manhattan tech, and the cops having Nite Owl's ship (or at least a replica of it) were also nice touches.

This is very different than what I expected, but I'm interested in seeing where it goes.
  #91  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:16 AM
Quimby is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: NJ
Posts: 8,471
I got the impression the present in the show was supposed to be after decades of uncontested left wing rule like how the comic was set after decades of uncontested right wing rule (Nixon's multiple terms). The way that cops needed approval to draw weapons and the fact that at some point in the past there were reparations for slavery seem to suggest that.
  #92  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:24 AM
Smapti is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 16,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey Finn View Post
I saw it, not having read the source material, and didn't understand much of what was going on. I'll read recaps and watch the later episodes and perhaps it will start to make sense.


To briefly summarize the source material (SPOILERS FOLLOW);

In the 1930s, people started dressing up in costumes and fighting crime. It became a nationwide craze, especially during WWII when many of them contributed to the war effort. None of these people actually had super-powers - they all relied on their physical talents, their wit, or their knack for creating tools and gadgets.

Around 1960, however, there came to be one true superhero - Dr. Manhattan. A nuclear accident transformed an ordinary man into a godlike being whose abilities are essentially unlimited - he can grow or shrink, produce copies of himself, teleport people or objects at will across great distances, transmute matter, kill with a thought, and to boot he's omniscient - he exists in the past, present, and future all at once, and knows everything he's going to do before he even does it. At President Nixon's request, he personally intervenes in the Vietnam War, and not only wins the war for America within a matter of days, but subjugates the country to the point that it joins the US and receives statehood. Subsequently, the 22nd Amendment is repealed, nobody ever finds out about Watergate (because the Comedian, another hero working for the government, assassinated Woodward and Bernstein and Deep Throat), and America becomes completely energy-independent when fuel cells based on Dr. Manhattan's abilities render fossil fuels obsolete.

In the late '70s, the police stage a nationwide strike after getting fed up with superheroes running roughshod over their line of work, and Congress responds by making costumed vigilantism illegal except for those superheroes who agree to work exclusively for the government, primarily Dr. Manhattan and the Comedian. A handful of heroes continue to dispense their own brand of justice illegally, primarily Rorschach; a mentally-disturbed, right-wing conspiracy theorist who was motivated to become a hero by the murder of Kitty Genovese and is essentially a serial killer who targets those he considers undeserving of life.

In the year 1985, Nixon is still president and America is on the brink of war with the Soviet Union due to America's recent invasion of Afghanistan. Dr. Manhattan has become increasingly detached from his sense of humanity and can no longer perceive the future after a certain point mere weeks away, which he believes is because nuclear war is about to break out, and he abandons mankind and settles on Mars to be alone with his thoughts. Meanwhile, the Comedian is assassinated, and Rorschach begins investigating, eventually determining that he was murdered by another superhero, Ozymandias (Adrian Veidt, played by Irons on the show), who since the ban has gone into the tech industry and has been working on new technologies based on Dr. Manhattan's abilities.

In a climactic confrontation in Veidt's base at the South Pole, Rorschach and a few other heroes learn that Veidt assassinated the Comedian, and caused Dr. Manhattan's disattachment, to stop them from getting in the way of his plan to prevent war between the US and USSR. As it turns out, attempting to replicate Dr. Manhattan's teleportation abilities with a machine works fine on inanimate objects, but it kills living things. With this in mind, he genetically engineered a giant, telepathic squid and, hours before the bombs were to fly (and thirty-five minutes before the confrontation), he teleports it into the middle of NYC, where the psychic outburst caused by its death kills millions, convincing both nations that Earth is being threatened by an interstellar enemy and that they must make peace in order to defend themselves against a common threat. Rorschach intends to reveal the truth to the world, but Dr. Manhattan, having come to his senses, sides with Veidt and kills him, though he warns him, when he says he's ended the whole mess, that "nothing ever ends."

I'm leaving a LOT out of that synopsis for brevity's sake - there are several other major characters I haven't even mentioned, several subplots, a comic-within-a-comic that parallels the main plot, and snippets of books that elaborate on the alternate history. It's worth a read if you're planning to follow the series. The movie is a really good adaptation as well, though it also leaves a few things out and changes the nature of Veidt's master plan in a way some people dislike (though I'm OK with it).

Personally, I just hope that this series doesn't force me to go through my old social media and delete my old pictures of myself wearing a Rorschach Halloween costume because he's being identified with white supremacists now.

Last edited by Smapti; 10-21-2019 at 10:25 AM.
  #93  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:41 AM
MoonMoon's Avatar
MoonMoon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,179
Wow, thanks for that, Smapti.

I have only the basic Watchmen knowledge I've absorbed over the years by being nerd-adjacent. I still watched (HBO + Lindelof = win, for me), and really enjoyed it. I wasn't lost, but then again, I don't mind letting a show wash over me and being patient as things are revealed.

Slight side note for those who are wary of Lindelof: if you feel burned by Lost, please watch The Leftovers. He has completely redeemed himself with what is possibly the best television series ever. It's certainly number one in my top three. Side note to my side note: watch all of it. The first season is pretty brutal, but is essential (no matter what you hear) to the full emotional experience of the series as a whole.
  #94  
Old 10-21-2019, 10:46 AM
DigitalC is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 11,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
(and thirty-five minutes before the confrontation)
Truly one of the best panels in comic book history. After the heroes tell Veidt they won't let him do it he replies "Do it? Dan, I'm not a republic serial villain. Do you seriously think I'd explain my masterstroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting it's outcome? I did it 35 minutes ago". Great synopsis btw!
  #95  
Old 10-21-2019, 11:14 AM
ISiddiqui is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Decatur, Georgia, USA
Posts: 6,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
While the kids are reciting the names of the presidents near the end, I believe I heard them say that Gerald Ford still managed to get a run in after Nixon, which is amusing.
I wonder if Nixon died (or had to resign after Squid-gate or whatever suffix they use for a scandal in this universe) and Ford as his VP had to fill the rest of his term (after 1985) until the 1988 elections when Redford won?
  #96  
Old 10-21-2019, 01:33 PM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,975
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smapti View Post
convincing both nations that Earth is being threatened by an interstellar enemy and that they must make peace in order to defend themselves against a common threat.
Nitpick: interdimensional enemy. Otherwise, a superb summation of a ridiculously complex storyline.
  #97  
Old 10-21-2019, 02:29 PM
Dewey Finn is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 29,156
Thanks for the summary. Some of that was covered by the movie a few years ago (which I did see, but it's been a while) and I gather that the current series is set sometime after the events in the film. I was wondering about how the opening events with the Tulsa race riots tied into the later events. Like is the boy or the baby supposed to be Angela's father?

Last edited by Dewey Finn; 10-21-2019 at 02:30 PM.
  #98  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:28 PM
Awgrimm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Oak Park, IL
Posts: 55
I assumed Louis Gossett Jr was the boy, since he is shown with the "watch over this boy" note laying in his lap in the final scene of the episode. I didn't get the impression he was related to Angela.
  #99  
Old 10-21-2019, 03:29 PM
TriPolar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 41,125
Why does it rain squids?
  #100  
Old 10-21-2019, 05:03 PM
Fiveyearlurker is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
Why does it rain squids?
The inter dimensional threat mentioned above took the form of a giant alien squid (in the book). The movie went a different way with it. Hence the show seems to be set in the world of the book rather than the movie.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017