Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #151  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:30 AM
John Mace's Avatar
John Mace is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Bay
Posts: 85,197
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenWyvern View Post
Trump himself used the word 'flip' a couple of days ago
And he used "rat". As one talking head said recently (paraphrased): That's right out of a 1950s James Cagney movie. Next, he's going to talk about some "dame".

Tax evasion. No chance Trump is going to fall prey to that charge, right? This whole "Russia thing" is nothing compared to what Trump might face for tax evasion charges. If I were Mueller, I'd wait until Trump is out of office so there is no chance he could pardon himself and screw up the works.

The Democrats really, really, REALLY need to win in 2020.
  #152  
Old 08-25-2018, 10:48 AM
El_Kabong's Avatar
El_Kabong is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle
Posts: 15,718
Hey, didn't Trump say repeatedly that he couldn't show his tax forms because they were being audited by the IRS? And surely if the IRS were auditing his forms so thoroughly that it took literally years to go through them, they would have noticed any shenanigans, right?

I suppose one alternative is that Trump was lying about the auditing...naw, that's impossible.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 08-25-2018 at 10:49 AM.
  #153  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:46 PM
Ann Hedonia's Avatar
Ann Hedonia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
Trump Organization CFO granted immunity. No indication of what he's doing to get it, so far as I can tell. But if it's just paying off women about affairs, I can't see the base or GOP Congress getting riled up about it, even if turned out have been done with campaign funds, etc.
Keep in mind that the grants of immunity can be a one-sided affair and it's not a clear cut indication that the witness has flipped.

Scenario- an accountant is questioned by the Feds regarding his client's bookkeeping. He invokes his 5th amendment rights against self-incrimination. The federal prosecutors respond with "We are giving you immunity. Tell us what you know." While this is an indication that the accountant made the decision not to lie on behalf of his client, it doesn't necessarily signal full cooperation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
No. There is no way republicans impeach Trump or hold him accountable no matter what crimes he committed.

Having said that, I would not be surprised if Mueller has Trump under sealed indictment, and once Trump steps down from president in 2021 or 2025 (yes, Americans are that stupid), then he may get prosecuted.
I think there might be a point where the cumulative weight of the evidence can't reasonably be ignored. I don't think we're close to that point yet, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Hey, didn't Trump say repeatedly that he couldn't show his tax forms because they were being audited by the IRS? And surely if the IRS were auditing his forms so thoroughly that it took literally years to go through them, they would have noticed any shenanigans, right?

I suppose one alternative is that Trump was lying about the auditing...naw, that's impossible.
Without inside information, an audit probably wouldn't have revealed the kind of tax fraud Trump and Cohen committed.

An audit might look at Trump's deductions for legal expenses. They may have asked for corroborating invoices. But in the absence of a reason to believe that the Cohen invoices were fraudulent - the invoices Cohen fabricated would probably have passed muster.

An audit can find expenses that were improperly classified. The auditors may even check the underlying proof of the expenses, especially if they were deemed excessive. But a routine audit isn't going to catch a well-executed fraud unless the auditor knows exactly what they are looking for and where to look. Which they do now.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 08-25-2018 at 03:46 PM.
  #154  
Old 08-25-2018, 04:52 PM
John Mace's Avatar
John Mace is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Bay
Posts: 85,197
If I had to choose between an IRS audit and an FBI investigation, I would need about a microsecond to pick the IRS audit.

Not that either one would cause me much trouble, personally, but you don't want the FBI investigating you.

Last edited by John Mace; 08-25-2018 at 04:54 PM.
  #155  
Old 08-25-2018, 04:54 PM
Leaper is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In my own little world...
Posts: 12,619
I have a feeling that whatever “brings him down,” it’ll be because he’s under so much stress that he finally alienates everyone in any real position to be a useful ally, other than a segment of voters.
  #156  
Old 08-25-2018, 05:45 PM
Siam Sam is offline
Elephant Whisperer
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 41,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
Hey, didn't Trump say repeatedly that he couldn't show his tax forms because they were being audited by the IRS? And surely if the IRS were auditing his forms so thoroughly that it took literally years to go through them, they would have noticed any shenanigans, right?

I suppose one alternative is that Trump was lying about the auditing...naw, that's impossible.
The closest the IRS would say that he was lying was that them auditing taxes would not be a reason not to disclose them, that there was no rule about that.
__________________
The two most interesting things in the world: Other people's sex lives and your own money.
  #157  
Old 08-25-2018, 11:17 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 82,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
If I were Mueller, I'd wait until Trump is out of office so there is no chance he could pardon himself and screw up the works.
I disagree. I see getting Trump out of power as a much higher priority than punishing him for any crimes he's committed. I'd be willing to give him a full pardon in exchange for his resignation. (Although Trump being Trump, I wouldn't give him the pardon until after the resignation was official.)
  #158  
Old 08-26-2018, 07:35 AM
running coach's Avatar
running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 37,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I disagree. I see getting Trump out of power as a much higher priority than punishing him for any crimes he's committed. I'd be willing to give him a full pardon in exchange for his resignation. (Although Trump being Trump, I wouldn't give him the pardon until after the resignation was official.)
And then renege on the pardon.
Other foot, meet shoe.

  #159  
Old 08-26-2018, 11:10 AM
k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 11,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
And then renege on the pardon.
Other foot, meet shoe.

Pardon him for federal crimes and turn all the evidence over to the states.
  #160  
Old 08-27-2018, 01:31 AM
davidm's Avatar
davidm is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Near Philadelphia PA, USA
Posts: 12,547
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Pardon him for federal crimes and turn all the evidence over to the states.
They need to be careful. New York state apparently has a law that says that once jeopardy has attached at the federal level the state cannot retry them at the state level for the same crime (the intent being to prevent double jeopardy). I'm not sure if that's for the same charge or the same act.

It's possible that other states may have similar laws.

I assume that Mueller is aware of all of that and knows what he's doing.
__________________
Check out my t-shirt designs in Marketplace. https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...php?p=21131885
  #161  
Old 08-27-2018, 07:59 AM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 16,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
...I assume that Mueller is aware of all of that and knows what he's doing.
That's the thing I like best about Mueller. It's reasonable to assume he knows what he's doing. He and his team might be the only people in Washington of whom that can be said.
__________________
"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out." --Václav Havel
  #162  
Old 08-27-2018, 10:14 AM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I disagree. I see getting Trump out of power as a much higher priority than punishing him for any crimes he's committed. I'd be willing to give him a full pardon in exchange for his resignation. (Although Trump being Trump, I wouldn't give him the pardon until after the resignation was official.)
Screw that. If Trump leaves office in, say, mid-2019, that gives Pence and other halfway-competent Republicans a year and a half to cement the "gains" and put a semi-professional gloss on what many on the right see as a successful administration.

This is not a successful administration. It's a dumpster fire on a train crashing into a radioactive cesspool. If Trump can be linked criminally to the crimes Mueller seems to be closing in on, he and every scumbag who helped put him in office deserves to suffer the full civil, financial, criminal and political consequences. The nation will survive.
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #163  
Old 08-27-2018, 11:44 AM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 82,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaj View Post
Screw that. If Trump leaves office in, say, mid-2019, that gives Pence and other halfway-competent Republicans a year and a half to cement the "gains" and put a semi-professional gloss on what many on the right see as a successful administration.

This is not a successful administration. It's a dumpster fire on a train crashing into a radioactive cesspool. If Trump can be linked criminally to the crimes Mueller seems to be closing in on, he and every scumbag who helped put him in office deserves to suffer the full civil, financial, criminal and political consequences. The nation will survive.
It's the survival of the nation I'm worried about. Pence would be a bad President but he wouldn't destroy the country. Trump might.
  #164  
Old 08-27-2018, 12:02 PM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
It's the survival of the nation I'm worried about. Pence would be a bad President but he wouldn't destroy the country. Trump might.
Fine. But he only gets the pardon if he confesses, under oath, to everything. And Hillary gets to piss on him.
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #165  
Old 08-27-2018, 12:05 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 16,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaj View Post
...It's a dumpster fire on a train crashing into a radioactive cesspool. ...
That is beautiful. Sir, you are a poet.
__________________
"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out." --Václav Havel
  #166  
Old 08-27-2018, 12:12 PM
drad dog is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 6,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
It's the survival of the nation I'm worried about. Pence would be a bad President but he wouldn't destroy the country. Trump might.
I think that Pence is so implicated in this situation that he is not going to be the efficacious right wing avenger we envision if he gets in. It will be a long mess. Lets face it: the last thing on his resume was this.
  #167  
Old 08-27-2018, 12:41 PM
JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 16,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
I think that Pence is so implicated in this situation that he is not going to be the efficacious right wing avenger we envision if he gets in. It will be a long mess. Lets face it: the last thing on his resume was this.


I can just imagine Donald twitter-threatening to withdraw his resignation if the caretaker does not have one of those round-the-table Praise Trump sessions before the pardon announcement... “So very disrespectful...”

But then again, no way he quits. He’s getting carried out of the WH on a stretcher, or dragged out by his succesor’s security detail.
  #168  
Old 08-27-2018, 01:51 PM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
I think that Pence is so implicated in this situation that he is not going to be the efficacious right wing avenger we envision if he gets in. It will be a long mess. Lets face it: the last thing on his resume was this.
And what if Trump and Pence both go down? President Paul Ryan? Three years ago, I might have thought that didn't sound so bad.
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #169  
Old 08-27-2018, 02:01 PM
ElvisL1ves is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
You misspelled "Pelosi".
  #170  
Old 08-27-2018, 02:40 PM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
You misspelled "Pelosi".
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #171  
Old 08-27-2018, 06:30 PM
Anny Middon is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidm View Post
They need to be careful. New York state apparently has a law that says that once jeopardy has attached at the federal level the state cannot retry them at the state level for the same crime (the intent being to prevent double jeopardy). I'm not sure if that's for the same charge or the same act.

It's possible that other states may have similar laws.

I assume that Mueller is aware of all of that and knows what he's doing.
Does jeopardy attach in the event of a pardon?

I read an article recently by someone who seemed to know what he was talking about that claimed that Manafort could be tried in New York on state charges essentially identical to the federal charges on which the jury was hung because jeopardy was not attached. This makes sense to me because he could be retried at the federal level on those counts.

I guess my question is: Would the state of New York consider that a pardon for a crime that was never tried on the federal level mean that the defendant had been legally in jeopardy for that crime?
  #172  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:32 AM
John_Stamos'_Left_Ear is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,822
How about now?
  #173  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:36 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Indeed. As I said in another thread, if House investigators are able to verify the Buzzfeed story, how can the House not impeach?

Last edited by RTFirefly; 01-18-2019 at 08:37 AM. Reason: Link.
  #174  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:43 AM
Snarky_Kong is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Indeed. As I said in another thread, if House investigators are able to verify the Buzzfeed story, how can the House not impeach?
Because Clinton!

And also, fuck you, make me!
  #175  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:49 AM
DCnDC's Avatar
DCnDC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Dueling Grounds
Posts: 12,905
At this point it's not getting the House to impeach, it's getting the Senate to convict, and the silence is deafening over there right now.
  #176  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:13 AM
ElvisL1ves is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
There has to be some official imprimatur, some inescapable conclusion from an official source, preferably the Mueller Report and even more preferably the bringing of an actual criminal indictment of Individual-1, to make the process inevitable and any other conclusion look irresponsible. But not Buzzfeed.

Anything short of that would look like impeachment is already decided as soon as a basis for it can be found or manufactured, as it was with Clinton. That only lets it all look like partisan spite, lets the Regressives and the Bothsidesers handwave it as such, and delegitimizes the gravest tool of statecraft in the Constitution.
  #177  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:54 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
There has to be some official imprimatur, some inescapable conclusion from an official source, preferably the Mueller Report and even more preferably the bringing of an actual criminal indictment of Individual-1, to make the process inevitable and any other conclusion look irresponsible. But not Buzzfeed.
Hence "if House investigators are able to verify the Buzzfeed story."
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
At this point it's not getting the House to impeach, it's getting the Senate to convict, and the silence is deafening over there right now.
Sure, the Senate's ultimately the real obstacle, but we still need to get the House past the "why bother to impeach, if nothing's going to happen in the Senate" mindset. If the evidence justifies serious charges, it's essential for the health of our democracy that the House impeach, regardless of what the Senate might or might not do. The House would have to put this baby on the Senate's doorstep; what the Senate would do then is on Mitch's head.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 01-18-2019 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Rearranged the emphasis.
  #178  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:12 AM
Happy Lendervedder's Avatar
Happy Lendervedder is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 15,225
Yes, put the evidence out there and let the Senate Republican either vote to remove, or force those Senators to go on record supporting criminal activity.

Sure, being impeached helped Clinton's numbers with the general public. But there is no way Trump's popularity will likewise be improved by an impeachment trial. Most of the country dislikes the guy, seeing all of the evidence laid out in front of them won't help.

I've been hesitant to support impeachment, but if this Buzzfeed article is true, that's criminal shit, and I suspect that's just the tip o' the iceberg.
  #179  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:19 AM
Folacin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North of the River
Posts: 3,692
I'm generally against impeachment unless there is fairly good evidence that the Senate will convict (or at least get close - so 10+ GOPers looking like patriots).

But I don't think the Clinton parallels are all that strong. He was fairly popular going in, and he was being impeached (in the pre-#METO era) for lying about what was apparently a consensual blowjob.

Trump is being chased for thing that are crimes on their own, and is not generally popular. It will probably prop him up with his base, but given good external evidence, I don't think he'll see a Clinton bump even if not convicted.
  #180  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:25 AM
ElvisL1ves is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Hence "if House investigators are able to verify the Buzzfeed story."
I get that. But it would still be House (Pelosi, Democratic) investigators doing it, and could still be dismissed as partisan by the deniers.
  #181  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:45 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
I get that. But it would still be House (Pelosi, Democratic) investigators doing it, and could still be dismissed as partisan by the deniers.
Look, if Jesus Christ Himself vouched for the evidence, they'd say he was a fake because he wasn't the True Republican Jesus. You can't win at that game.

The only way forward is to compile the evidence with a summary of how it all fits together, and then let it speak for itself from there.

The thing about the Buzzfeed story is that, if true, it dramatically simplifies the narrative: Trump sold out to the Russians when they dangled $300M in front of him. How do we know this? All these texts and emails, plus Michael Cohen's testimony. If anyone can connect the dots, nobody's imprimatur will be needed.
  #182  
Old 01-18-2019, 10:50 AM
carnivorousplant is offline
KB not found. Press any key
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Central Arkansas
Posts: 59,252
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Look, if Jesus Christ Himself vouched for the evidence, they'd say he was a fake because he wasn't the True Republican Jesus.
This is true.
  #183  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:19 AM
Vinyl Turnip is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 20,443
I don't know who that swarthy guy is, but it ain't Jesus. Jesus is white and has blond hair.
  #184  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:22 AM
ElvisL1ves is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 50,549
He speaks English, too, complete with thee and verily.

I'd rather not give up on them, even though some obviously are unreachable. They're still us, still human, even if that includes an extreme unwillingness to admit having been fooled or ripped off.
  #185  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:42 AM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
He speaks English, too, complete with thee and verily.

I'd rather not give up on them, even though some obviously are unreachable. They're still us, still human, even if that includes an extreme unwillingness to admit having been fooled or ripped off.
I'm not giving up on people; I'm disregarding the usefulness of someone's imprimatur in this situation as a means of persuading them.
  #186  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:48 AM
running coach's Avatar
running coach is offline
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 37,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
He speaks English, too, complete with thee and verily.

I'd rather not give up on them, even though some obviously are unreachable. They're still us, still human, even if that includes an extreme unwillingness to admit having been fooled or ripped off.
Objection! Facts not in evidence.
  #187  
Old 01-18-2019, 12:47 PM
Buck Godot's Avatar
Buck Godot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD outside DC
Posts: 6,093
My feeling is that you wait until the Mueller report comes out. Since you aren't going to be able to get the senate to remove him from office there is no particular time pressure, and since you only reasonably get one shot to make your impeachment case you may as well wait until you have as much evidence as you can against him, and can make your best case.

But if you can get a strong majority (not just plurality) of the total electorate in favor of it, I think you go for it. The problem with the Clinton Impeachment was that while there was strong support among Republicans in favor of it, the nation as a whole was against it.
  #188  
Old 01-18-2019, 12:55 PM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
My feeling is that you wait until the Mueller report comes out. Since you aren't going to be able to get the senate to remove him from office there is no particular time pressure, and since you only reasonably get one shot to make your impeachment case you may as well wait until you have as much evidence as you can against him, and can make your best case.
I think it should be done this year, though. Once we get into 2020, it's time to let the voters do the removing from office.
  #189  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:14 PM
Kolak of Twilo's Avatar
Kolak of Twilo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edgewater/Chicago
Posts: 3,954
Televised hearings will have an impact. Cohen offering testimony live on television, being questioned by Republicans as well as Democrats, will make this much more concrete and real for a lot of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
I think it should be done this year, though. Once we get into 2020, it's time to let the voters do the removing from office.
Predicting what McConnell will say, RT?
  #190  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:24 PM
Tamerlane is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 13,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Lendervedder View Post
But there is no way Trump's popularity will likewise be improved by an impeachment trial.
You are not anywhere near cynical enough IMHO. I'm not saying his popularity will be improved by an impeachment trial, but if you're not open to the possibility that it might you're setting yourself up for some pretty profound disillusionment.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 01-18-2019 at 01:26 PM.
  #191  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:36 PM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo View Post
Predicting what McConnell will say, RT?
I hardly think it'll be just Mitch, or just Trump's hardcore followers.
  #192  
Old 01-18-2019, 02:49 PM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,993
It's often said that to take down a popular politician, he has to be caught in bed with a young boy or a dead girl. Trump could be caught with a dead boy and video of the murder and he'd still have the Deplorable 35% on his side. And almost all the Republicans in Congress. The Deplorables skew old, so slowly demographics will improve.

Up-to-date quotes from prediction markets still show Trump as 65% to win the GOP nomination and 29% to win the grand prize in November 2020. (Harris and O'Rourke are tied for 2nd to be next Potus with 13% chance each. Biden is in 4th place.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enola Gay View Post
Be careful what you wish for....President Pence?
If two years of Trump don't make you vomit, contemplate ten years of Pence.

My own hope is that the dismal Trump show will inform Americans in their 20's and teens, and the Republican Party will become a spent force on the national scene, that the GOP will disintegrate as the Whigs did in the 1850's. To this worthy end, I celebrate every Trumpian crime, misstep and fart, as moving the country, eventually, to a better place.

Yes, the Trump is doing irreparable damage to American prestige, but, like an alcoholic, we may need to "hit bottom" before we can seek a cure.

As far as fear of nuclear war goes, Pence, the religious nut, might be more dangerous than Trump. Recall that it was the born-again Dubya who explained his Iraq misadventure to French President Jacques Chirac with "Gog and Magog are at work in the Middle East. . . . The biblical prophecies are being fulfilled. . . . This confrontation is willed by God, who wants to use this conflict to erase his people's enemies before a New Age begins."

Last edited by septimus; 01-18-2019 at 02:50 PM.
  #193  
Old 01-18-2019, 02:54 PM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
If two years of Trump don't make you vomit, contemplate ten years of Pence.
Why should we contemplate that?

Pence's approval ratings were in the toilet in deep red Indiana before he left the governorship, and needless to say, his brand of fundagelicalism will go over a lot less well with America as a whole than it did in Indiana.
  #194  
Old 01-18-2019, 05:40 PM
Akaj's Avatar
Akaj is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: In the vanishing middle
Posts: 817
The timing is so delicious, with Individual #1's approval ratings already sinking and the shutdown growing ranker by the day.

I'm not saying impeachment is around the corner, but the worse things look for Individual #1, the more likely he is to commit the catastrophic blunder that sinks this administration and the GOP for good.
__________________
I'm not expecting any surprises.
  #195  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:09 PM
ITR champion is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Indiana
Posts: 10,370
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
There has to be some official imprimatur, some inescapable conclusion from an official source, preferably the Mueller Report and even more preferably the bringing of an actual criminal indictment of Individual-1, to make the process inevitable and any other conclusion look irresponsible. But not Buzzfeed.
I agree. Not Buzzfeed.
  #196  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:34 PM
GIGObuster's Avatar
GIGObuster is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 29,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITR champion View Post
I agree. Not Buzzfeed.
FWIW and IIRC Woodward and Bernstein also did not see direct evidence either when they reported first on what Deepthroat and others told them about Watergate.

Point being that the same point would had been made then to W and B and we know how that ended.
  #197  
Old 01-18-2019, 07:46 PM
John_Stamos'_Left_Ear is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITR champion View Post
I agree. Not Buzzfeed.
#MAGAts on Twitter seem to think that means something. Except...
Quote:
The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents.
Emphasis mine.

So the Buzzfeed reporters didn't see the receipts. But there are receipts.
  #198  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:01 PM
CairoCarol is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 5,035
Er, what the hell is this ... Mueller's spokesman says Buzzfeed report is "not accurate.' WARNING - VIDEO!

I admit I'm surprised. And very curious to see how this plays out.
__________________
If I waited for memory to serve, I'd starve.

Last edited by CairoCarol; 01-18-2019 at 08:03 PM.
  #199  
Old 01-18-2019, 08:30 PM
Johnny L.A. is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: NoWA
Posts: 61,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by septimus View Post
It's often said that to take down a popular politician, he has to be caught in bed with a young boy or a dead girl.
'The only way I can lose this election is if I'm caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy' - Edwin Edwards
  #200  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:29 PM
Whack-a-Mole's Avatar
Whack-a-Mole is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 20,981
In a rare move, Mueller’s office denies BuzzFeed report that Trump told Cohen to lie about Moscow project

BuzzFeed should never be considered a reliable source IMO. They might get a scoop but they are all about clickbait and have little regard for journalistic standards. Anything they post should be considered dubious till proven by other sources.
__________________
"I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it." ~John Stuart Mill
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017