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  #101  
Old 03-25-2019, 04:29 AM
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Didn't a large chunk of Bernie bros vote for Trump in retaliation for the DNC snubbing Sanders for Clinton?
  #102  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:07 AM
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A large chunk of people identifying as "Bernie bros" didn't vote for anyone, by virtue of being citizens of Russia, rather than the US. Another large chunk of them would have voted for Trump anyway, regardless of who the Democratic nominee was (including Sanders). But the vast majority of Americans who actually supported Sanders voted for Clinton over Trump.
  #103  
Old 03-25-2019, 02:23 PM
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A good find, and certainly provides further support for Slackerinc's contention that Sanders and his people are very, very worried about O'Rourke.
No, I don't think it does. I don't see any reason for the Sanders' campaign to be worried about Beto's campaign. The polls still show Bernie way ahead.

The Sirota article was written in Dec. 2018, before any of the Presidential candidates announced their candidacy. It was written long before Sirota was added to Sanders' staff.

If anything, The Atlantic article was trying to bash Sanders because that was written this month. Someone from The Atlantic pulled that article from Dec. 2018 to try to make a point.

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Originally Posted by Ulf the Unwashed View Post
It's interesting to me that Sanders's negative efforts are being focused on O'Rourke. I guess they see him as the candidate at present most likely to cut into Sanders's base of younger white men...Anyway, I'm not seeing anything like this leveled by Sanders supporters at Elizabeth Warren, say, or Kamala Harris, or Amy Klobuchar, just O'Rourke. Maybe I'm wrong.
Sirota wouldn't have written the article about anyone else because no one else (except possibly Klobuchar) was close to Beto's record of voting with Trump. But Klobuchar has been pretty open about being a moderate, so it wouldn't probably surprise anyone if her score was high. At the time, Beto was claiming to be more of a Progressive, so that score was more surprising. Since then, he's changed positions on a few things.

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Originally Posted by Ulf the Unwashed View Post
That being said, does the thrust of the Sirota article strike anyone else as...odd? It's fine for one candidate to complain that another doesn't toe the party line as often as he should ("voting against his own party's positions"). But when the candidate making the charges is someone who is proud to say he is not a member of that party--well, that's a peculiar complaint to make. Or maybe it's just me.
Sirota wasn't writing the article on behalf of Sanders. Even then, Sanders' record is less than half of Beto's.

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Originally Posted by Ulf the Unwashed View Post
I'm sure that Sanders is a pretty reliable voter for the sorts of things that Schumer and Co. want him to vote for, by the way. I wonder what the overall "spread" among candidates is, though. If we're talking about most-votes-opposing-Trump, then I believe the "winner" among presidential candidates in the Senate is Gillibrand--but by how much, I have no idea.
You can check it out for yourself. The link goes to Beto O'Rourke's record, but you can put any legislator's name in the search box in the top right and you can find their career record with the last two sessions broken out. Then there are some stats on the side to help determine the expected rate, but I'm not sure how those work.

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Originally Posted by Ulf the Unwashed View Post
I also wonder about the value of an aggregate figure such as "30%," which may simply reflect genuine regional/demographic differences even among party loyalists. Sanders's record on guns, for example, has not been especially in line with the rest of the Democratic party, and that's at least in part a result of representing a state with a high rate of gun ownership. That he is perhaps more Ted Cruz than Elizabeth Warren where guns are concerned may just indicate that Democrats in Vermont do not hold the same views on guns as Democrats in many other areas of the country. Blue state/red state doesn't mean lockstep; there are other considerations too.
I was curious about some of the Presidential candidates, so I did a quick search on them. These are their career totals. In his research, Sirota accounted for the regional differences and determined that the 30% was high for the level of blue in Beto's area. Of the Presidential candidates, no one except perhaps Amy Klobuchar comes close to Beto's record for voting with Trump.

Beto O'Rourke 30.1%
Amy Klobuchar 29.8% (only 10% in 116th Congress)
Kirsten Gillibrand 11.7%
Elizabeth Warren 12.8%
Kamala Harris 17.0%
Cory Booker 14.9%
Bernie Sanders 14.0%
  #104  
Old 03-25-2019, 02:30 PM
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Tbh, not worried that a Texas Democrat voted more with conservative initiatives than non-Texas Democrats did. Even if he did so more than what one would "expect" for his district... so? It's fuckin' Texas, guys and gals.

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  #105  
Old 03-25-2019, 03:12 PM
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Tbh, not worried that a Texas Democrat voted more with conservative initiatives than non-Texas Democrats did. Even if he did so more than what one would "expect" for his district... so? It's fuckin' Texas, guys and gals.
Beto O'Rourke 30.1%
Al Green (D-Tx) 15%
Joacquin Castro (D-Tx) 16.2%
Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tx) 14.3%
Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-Tx) 15.2%
Marc Veasey (D-Tx) 19.1%
Filemon Vela (D-Tx) 20.4%
Lloyd Doggett (D-Tx) 13.4%
Vicente Gonzalez (D-Tx) 29.5%
Henry Cuellar (D-Tx) 58.4%


There's only one Democrat in Texas who voted more with Trump than Beto O'Rourke, according to that site and that statistic. The Justice Democrats have already committed to primary Henry Cuellar, the Democrat who voted most with Trump from Texas. The other Texas Democrats are more in line with other Democrats.
  #106  
Old 03-25-2019, 03:33 PM
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No, I don't think it does. I don't see any reason for the Sanders' campaign to be worried about Beto's campaign. The polls still show Bernie way ahead.

The Sirota article was written in Dec. 2018, before any of the Presidential candidates announced their candidacy. It was written long before Sirota was added to Sanders' staff.

If anything, The Atlantic article was trying to bash Sanders because that was written this month. Someone from The Atlantic pulled that article from Dec. 2018 to try to make a point.



Sirota wouldn't have written the article about anyone else because no one else (except possibly Klobuchar) was close to Beto's record of voting with Trump. But Klobuchar has been pretty open about being a moderate, so it wouldn't probably surprise anyone if her score was high. At the time, Beto was claiming to be more of a Progressive, so that score was more surprising. Since then, he's changed positions on a few things.



Sirota wasn't writing the article on behalf of Sanders. Even then, Sanders' record is less than half of Beto's.

...
Thanks for the stats. Interesting that Gillibrand does seem to have the lowest percentage, just as her campaign claims.

Regarding Sirota--I would suggest reading the electoral-vote blurb on him I linked to earlier, if you haven't already. The link again: https://www.electoral-vote.com//evp2...21.html#item-6.

Anyway, one concern is that the "30%" article may have been written when Sirota actually WAS working for the Sanders campaign, though pretending not to be. It seems clear that Sirota actually joined the campaign at least a month before he "officially" did so, and quite possibly as early as last fall--that is, before this article was published. As my source says, "Sirota was producing content for some period of time that was presented as the work of a third-party outsider, but was actually the work of a campaign insider. That's somewhat unethical."

Bottom line to me: together with the anti-O'Rourke statements we're seeing here on this board from people who seem to be backing Sanders ("incels," really??) and the reports of other posters of similar behavior from supposed Sanders backers on social media, an anti-O'Rourke article by Sirota suggests that the campaign really is trying to attack O'Rourke above all other current candidates. Obviously, your mileage varies, and that's fine. I'd just ask that you not be too quick to assume that an article by Sirota published last December is entirely independent of the concerns of the Sanders campaign.

Last edited by Ulf the Unwashed; 03-25-2019 at 03:36 PM.
  #107  
Old 03-25-2019, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Heffalump and Roo View Post
Beto O'Rourke 30.1%
Al Green (D-Tx) 15%
Joacquin Castro (D-Tx) 16.2%
Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Tx) 14.3%
Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-Tx) 15.2%
Marc Veasey (D-Tx) 19.1%
Filemon Vela (D-Tx) 20.4%
Lloyd Doggett (D-Tx) 13.4%
Vicente Gonzalez (D-Tx) 29.5%
Henry Cuellar (D-Tx) 58.4%


There's only one Democrat in Texas who voted more with Trump than Beto O'Rourke, according to that site and that statistic. The Justice Democrats have already committed to primary Henry Cuellar, the Democrat who voted most with Trump from Texas. The other Texas Democrats are more in line with other Democrats.
Yawn. I live in Castro's district and he could shoot somebody on Guadelupe Avenue and his seat would be safe.

"Beto is more 'conservative' than other Texas Democrats" adds to his appeal as a national candidate - it doesn't detract from it.

A voting record which aligns with your party 70% of the time is a non-issue. Stop trying to make it one.
  #108  
Old 03-25-2019, 04:01 PM
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"Beto is more 'conservative' than other Texas Democrats" adds to his appeal as a national candidate - it doesn't detract from it.

A voting record which aligns with your party 70% of the time is a non-issue. Stop trying to make it one.
I wasn't trying to make it an issue. When you posted that Texas Democrats vote more conservative than non-Texas Democrats, I got curious about the voting record of Texas Democrats, so I looked it up.

Whether voting more with Trump than other Democrats adds to his appeal, I'll leave up to the elections.
  #109  
Old 03-25-2019, 05:43 PM
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I am getting so fed up with Bernie backers I encounter on social media. They constantly drag Beto and the DNC (and STILL, for some reason, Hillary Clinton) with unabashedly excoriating verbiage. Fans of other candidates should toughen up and not be so sensitive about insults like "corporatist" and "empty suit", but it's high dudgeon time if Bernie is insulted. "Bernie derangement syndrome", they call it.

When I confront them on this double standard, they never have a response. The only conclusion I can draw is that Bernie followers really do feel, when it comes down to it, that their guy is pure as the driven snow, that unlike the "empty suit" corporatists, he is Good and Right and Speaking the Truth, while the others are dodgy, corrupt, typical politicians. So of course it's okay to disparage them! They are trying to sleaze their typical politician way to the nomination, which might jeopardize Bernie's chances. So they Must Be Destroyed. Scorched earth!

But My Goodness, if you are a True Progressive, how could you possibly THINK of saying anything negative about our Dear Leader? How could you set back The Cause this way?


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"Beto is more 'conservative' than other Texas Democrats" adds to his appeal as a national candidate - it doesn't detract from it.

A voting record which aligns with your party 70% of the time is a non-issue. Stop trying to make it one.

Cosigned. One of these Bernie-loving Beto bashers posted an anti-Beto hit piece on my timeline and pulled a quote about how Beto is a "masterful politician". This was intended as an insult! Goodness gracious, we certainly wouldn't want to nominate a "masterful politician" to attempt to oust an incumbent president when gas prices and the unemployment rate are low. Another accusation was that Beto might hold different positions in private than he expresses in public! Oh, the horror.
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  #110  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:08 PM
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Is it true this guy served dirt and feces to his wife? Also he was live-streaming a dentist visit? Is this what’s hot in the streets nowadays?

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  #111  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:46 PM
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FTR, that "livestreaming his dental cleaning" trope about Beto is basically fake news. He showed his mouth for context for maybe a second or two, and then the whole point was interviewing his hygienist, a Latina immigrant, about border issues.
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  #112  
Old 03-26-2019, 12:53 PM
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Political purity tests are so goddamn nauseating.
  #113  
Old 03-27-2019, 10:55 AM
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Nate's numbers
O’Rourke’s bump in the Morning Consult poll was decidedly meh: He went from 7 percent in the poll the week before his March 14 announcement to 8 percent in the poll the week after. Other polls, however, showed larger gains … Overall, it appears as though O’Rourke has gotten a smaller bump than Sanders and Kamala Harris, but larger than that of other candidates. However, a pair of The Economist/YouGov polls … had disappointing news: O’Rourke’s net favorability rating … among Democrats fell from +45 points before his announcement to +40 after it, although the changes were within the margin of error.
  #114  
Old 04-02-2019, 09:11 AM
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There's some dispute as to how all in he was on that.
IMO Bernie Sanders is one of the reasons why Trump won. Sanders polarized his voters against Clinton for too long so there wasn't enough time for the Dems to recognize that with this infight, they were shooting their own foot and allow the other party's candidate to win the electoral vote.

Yes I am aware that Hillary is not a likeable person for many. But what did they get?
  #115  
Old 04-02-2019, 11:51 AM
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Also, six years in Congress, under both Obama and Trump, doesn't strike me as "no experience".
Cory Booker was Mayor of Newark (New Jersey's largest city) where he enjoyed great success. Amy Klobuchar was County Attorney of Minnesota's largest county. Kamala Harris was District Attorney of the City and County of San Francisco and then the California Attorney General. Even Bernie Sanders was Mayor of his state's largest city. All four of these are members of the United States Senate, the U.S.'s Upper House.

Beto O'Rourke was city councilman for El Paso's District 8, with a population less than South Bend, Indiana. His claim to fame was rich and connected parents who let him fail at several "careers" before settling on lower-house Representative from a District which has chosen a Democrat in every election but one since its creation 117 years ago.


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Is it true this guy served dirt and feces to his wife? Also he was live-streaming a dentist visit?
Is yours just some kind of joke?
  #116  
Old 04-02-2019, 12:04 PM
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Beto O'Rourke was city councilman for El Paso's District 8, with a population less than South Bend, Indiana. His claim to fame was rich and connected parents who let him fail at several "careers" before settling on lower-house Representative from a District which has chosen a Democrat in every election but one since its creation 117 years ago.
His wiki says his mom owned a furniture store and his dad was a county judge. Maybe connected but doesn't sound particularly rich.
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Old 04-02-2019, 12:34 PM
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Cory Booker was Mayor of Newark (New Jersey's largest city) where he enjoyed great success. Amy Klobuchar was County Attorney of Minnesota's largest county. Kamala Harris was District Attorney of the City and County of San Francisco and then the California Attorney General. Even Bernie Sanders was Mayor of his state's largest city. All four of these are members of the United States Senate, the U.S.'s Upper House.

Beto O'Rourke was city councilman for El Paso's District 8, with a population less than South Bend, Indiana. His claim to fame was rich and connected parents who let him fail at several "careers" before settling on lower-house Representative from a District which has chosen a Democrat in every election but one since its creation 117 years ago.




Is yours just some kind of joke?
https://www.dailywire.com/news/44858...-ryan-saavedra
  #118  
Old 04-02-2019, 08:08 PM
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Beto O'Rourke was city councilman for El Paso's District 8, with a population less than South Bend, Indiana. His claim to fame was rich and connected parents who let him fail at several "careers" before settling on lower-house Representative from a District which has chosen a Democrat in every election but one since its creation 117 years ago.

He defeated an incumbent in the primary, no easy task and something AOC has been feted for in an even bluer district. And he came within 2.6 points of defeating a Republican incumbent in a Senate race, when other recent Senate races in Texas were double digit wins for the Republican candidate.
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  #119  
Old 04-03-2019, 01:52 AM
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Frankly I do NOT understand the fascination with Beto. Is it all just some "guy with the boyish grin" thing?

Obviously Beto has achieved some celebrity status (though I'd feel better about that if he'd defeated the widely-despised Cruz). I'm afraid that if he's the nominee, pundits will wake up and say "Hey! This guy is unqualified; he has essentially no leadership experience." He was on only two (2) House committees (Armed Services and Veterans), wasn't even a subcommittee chair. He seems to be a flip-flopper: He opposed Obama's policy on DACA/DAPA but now wants "citizenship today for Dreamers."

He does NOT strike me as Presidential material, but that's irrelevant. If he's really The One who can beat Donald Trump, I'm happy to rally behind him. Is he? Or is he just a flash-in-the-pan Kardashian-wannabe?
  #120  
Old 04-03-2019, 02:21 AM
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Frankly I do NOT understand the fascination with Beto. Is it all just some "guy with the boyish grin" thing?

Obviously Beto has achieved some celebrity status (though I'd feel better about that if he'd defeated the widely-despised Cruz). I'm afraid that if he's the nominee, pundits will wake up and say "Hey! This guy is unqualified; he has essentially no leadership experience." He was on only two (2) House committees (Armed Services and Veterans), wasn't even a subcommittee chair. He seems to be a flip-flopper: He opposed Obama's policy on DACA/DAPA but now wants "citizenship today for Dreamers."

He does NOT strike me as Presidential material, but that's irrelevant. If he's really The One who can beat Donald Trump, I'm happy to rally behind him. Is he? Or is he just a flash-in-the-pan Kardashian-wannabe?
He's not the same Beto I remember in his senate race.

He's lost his edge, and he apologizes for things he doesn't need to apologize for. I hope he turns his shit around.
  #121  
Old 04-03-2019, 07:40 AM
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Frankly I do NOT understand the fascination with Beto. Is it all just some "guy with the boyish grin" thing?

Obviously Beto has achieved some celebrity status (though I'd feel better about that if he'd defeated the widely-despised Cruz). I'm afraid that if he's the nominee, pundits will wake up and say "Hey! This guy is unqualified; he has essentially no leadership experience." He was on only two (2) House committees (Armed Services and Veterans), wasn't even a subcommittee chair. He seems to be a flip-flopper: He opposed Obama's policy on DACA/DAPA but now wants "citizenship today for Dreamers."

He does NOT strike me as Presidential material, but that's irrelevant. If he's really The One who can beat Donald Trump, I'm happy to rally behind him. Is he? Or is he just a flash-in-the-pan Kardashian-wannabe?
He's a good campaigner, which is not the same thing as someone who will be a good president. But someone who would be a good president who isn't a good campaigner will never get to demonstrate how good a president they would be.

And I agree he seems to have lost some of his fire this time around. I wonder if he really wanted to run or if he was just told that it was now or never.
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:07 PM
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I thought that he was a great candidate to run against Cruz, and I would have been overjoyed if he had won.

But he didn't. And "lost a race for Senate" is not exactly a great qualification for a Presidential run.
  #123  
Old 04-03-2019, 04:39 PM
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If he can inspire people to vote, raise a buttload of dough, craft a winning message and create a movement that extends to the industrial midwest, I'm all in for him. Whether he can do anything beyond raising the buttload of dough at this point is debatable.

Quote:
And "lost a race for Senate" is not exactly a great qualification for a Presidential run.
He's still got more public service experience than the current WH occupant (which, I know, is a very low bar). But in addition, he doesn't appear to be suffering from any of the following: dementia, narcissistic behavior, a complete lack of empathy, unrelenting greed, possible influence from foreign entities, an inability to effectively write or read, a complete disregard for cultural and political norms, an absolute lack of curiosity.

Even if Beto only suffered from half of those "impairments," he'd be Abraham Lincoln compared to Trump.

There's a lot to be said for decency and the ability to inspire, and being smart enough to surround yourself with the right people. If that ends up what Beto is about, I've got no problem with his relative lack of experience. On the other hand, he could prove to be an absolutely joke of a candidate. Who can tell at this point? But based on what I've seen, I haven't written him off.
  #124  
Old 04-03-2019, 05:12 PM
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And "lost a race for Senate" is not exactly a great qualification for a Presidential run.

I hear this from people all the time, and I don't understand it. How can people not see that coming within two and a half points of defeating a Republican incumbent in Texas is actually more impressive than winning by double digits in Massachusetts? Talk about what poker players call "results-based thinking"!

ETA: What was Abraham Lincoln's CV? One term in the House, and a failed run for Senate.
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  #125  
Old 04-03-2019, 07:11 PM
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ETA: What was Abraham Lincoln's CV? One term in the House, and a failed run for Senate.
Abe also served 8 years as a state legislator, was a successful self-taught lawyer, a Militia Captain, a leader of leaders — not just a charismatic campaigner — and has several other CV bullets. For example, Abe Lincoln is the only U.S. President to hold a U.S. Patent as inventor. And he was a mature and experienced 51 years of age when he ran for President.

Lincoln is one of the very greatest American orators. (And he wrote his own speeches.) Does Beto have speeches for comparison? When I Google "Beto O'Rourke speech" I have to add "transcript" or all I get is YouTubes. What's the "best" paragraph in this speech?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beto O'Rourke
The challenges before us are the greatest of our lifetimes. An economy that works too well for too few and not at all for too many more. A healthcare system where millions are unable to see a doctor or be well enough to live to their full potential, and the last best hope of averting the catastrophe that will follow additional climate change fading before our very inaction. We must overcome these challenges, but we must first ask ourselves how this, the wealthiest, the most powerful country on the face of the planet, the most powerful country that world history has ever known, has found itself in such a perilous position.
OK, maybe, but I'm not impressed. If he's really The One, I recommend he find a better speechwriter.

Last edited by septimus; 04-03-2019 at 07:12 PM.
  #126  
Old 04-05-2019, 01:49 PM
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This out of Politico yesterday bugs me: Beto's driving himself around Iowa. Again.

Now I get that Beto's a bit of a punk, a rogue, does things his own way, and I know this is a relatively minor thing (relatively speaking), but I'm looking for a couple of things in the candidate I'm gonna get behind:
1. Can win the industrial midwest back from Trump.
2. Is smart and humble enough to know when to take advice from the people around him.

The first speaks to his/her electability. The second speaks his/her ability to effectively govern.

I hope Beto doesn't run his presidential campaign the same way he ran his Senate campaign. He needs to defer to those around him on things he's less knowledgeable about. He's never won a state-wide race, let alone 51 of them. I hope he is able to look to others for guidance and advice-- and actually take it, even on small things like not driving from campaign stop to campaign stop. Otherwise I'll get on board with someone else in the primary.
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Old 04-06-2019, 08:02 AM
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I think he should be careful not to get too "managed". His instincts may well be better than those of high-priced political consultants. Texas is such a big state, what he did there is more major than most of the candidates in this race have achieved. None of them have had to compete in a huge state where they were an underdog, or even where they were only a slight favorite in the general election.
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  #128  
Old 04-06-2019, 10:00 PM
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He's driving himself in a minivan. All the downsides of driving yourself, without any of the benefits of attention or street cred that driving a cooler vehicle would get you. He should be driving some kind of idiosyncratic vehicle like a biodiesel jeep, if he's going to keep doing that.
  #129  
Old 04-24-2019, 05:43 PM
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Most Americans, even the old ones , don't know who Hawkwind is. (I recall a few Dopers- smapti, Dropzone, making Hawkwind references.) Anyway, Dave Brock sends his regards to Beto.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-brock-n998111

“From one Psychedelic Warlord to another, Dave sends Beto his best wishes and hopes he finds Utopia for the American people,” Brock’s spokesperson said in an email from England.

(Psycedelic Warlord and Utopia are both Hawkwind songs.)
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:55 PM
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He's driving himself in a minivan.
But I did hear that it has paddle shifters. And that he replaced the cigarette lighter with a rechargeable flashlight.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:56 PM
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A friend forwarded me a story today about Beto trying to leave the scene of the wreck he caused while DUI. That's not good. I'm definitely reconsidering my support.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:16 PM
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link?
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:17 PM
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A friend forwarded me a story today about Beto trying to leave the scene of the wreck he caused while DUI. That's not good. I'm definitely reconsidering my support.
Yes, in 1998, though he disputes the claim that he tried to leave the scene. I thought it was common knowledge.

Last edited by scr4; 04-24-2019 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:24 PM
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A friend forwarded me a story today about Beto trying to leave the scene of the wreck he caused while DUI. That's not good. I'm definitely reconsidering my support.
The DWI accident happened in 1998, when he was 26. He was drunk, driving way too fast, and the accident was totally his fault. My impression is that you'd have to go back there with a time machine to determine whether he was trying to leave the scene, or was just stumbling around, drunk and confused.

Whoever the Dem nominee is, I'll crawl across broken glass to vote for him/her, including Sanders and Biden, neither of whom I'm too keen about. But I'd like to see guys like Beto and Buttigieg to put up some policy positions on their websites, and maybe a particular program or two that would be a high priority of theirs if they got elected. Right now, they both seem to be running on "I'm a smart, charismatic (Beto) / likable (Pete) guy." When I think of them, Mondale's "where's the beef?" line comes to mind.

ETA: Ninja'd by scr4 about the accident.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 04-24-2019 at 06:25 PM.
  #135  
Old 04-24-2019, 09:59 PM
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Whether it's Beto or someone else, I want a Democrat to visit Texas. I want a Democrat to compete in Texas. I want a Democrat to visit Houston, to visit Austin, to visit El Paso, to visit Dallas, Arlington, Ft Worth, Temple, San Antonio, Galveston. God damn, Democrats just give up this state, and I think that for the right Democrat, it's there to be taken.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:31 PM
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Right now, they both seem to be running on "I'm a smart, charismatic (Beto) / likable (Pete) guy." When I think of them, Mondale's "where's the beef?" line comes to mind.

As I say, I don’t know if I can support Beto anymore after learning about these DWIs. But just for the record, I don’t believe the “where’s the beef” criticism of Beto is at all remotely fair. I have watched a couple of his town halls on Facebook and he is impressively knowledgeable and specific in his responses and proposals. This is just some weird stereotype people have tagged him with (perhaps because of his looks?), which really does not apply in actuality.
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:36 PM
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A friend forwarded me a story today about Beto trying to leave the scene of the wreck he caused while DUI. That's not good. I'm definitely reconsidering my support.
Well, people do say he's "Kennedyesque"...
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Old 04-24-2019, 11:48 PM
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As I say, I don’t know if I can support Beto anymore after learning about these DWIs. But just for the record, I don’t believe the “where’s the beef” criticism of Beto is at all remotely fair. I have watched a couple of his town halls on Facebook and he is impressively knowledgeable and specific in his responses and proposals. This is just some weird stereotype people have tagged him with (perhaps because of his looks?), which really does not apply in actuality.
I've heard him talk about this several times. He was with a date, he says he never tried to leave, and says his conduct was inexcusable. Since he hasn't had a repeat since 1998, I'll assume he learned his lesson. BTW, what do you mean "these DWIs?" Unless I'm mistaken, there was only one.
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Old 04-25-2019, 12:07 AM
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Well, people do say he's "Kennedyesque"...
!

Well played, sir!

Last edited by JohnT; 04-25-2019 at 12:08 AM.
  #140  
Old 04-25-2019, 12:16 AM
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Thanks. Seriously, the chance that I will vote for Beto in the primary is very low, but this isolated incident that happened when he was 26 won’t lower that chance one iota.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:24 PM
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I've heard him talk about this several times. He was with a date, he says he never tried to leave, and says his conduct was inexcusable. Since he hasn't had a repeat since 1998, I'll assume he learned his lesson. BTW, what do you mean "these DWIs?" Unless I'm mistaken, there was only one.

Huh, my friend (who is a college professor and pays closer attention to political minutae than anyone I know) said there were two.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:35 PM
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I went back to the email from my friend and I now realize I misinterpreted a sentence:

"By privilege I mean twice he ran from police and didn't face consequences."

I hadn't known about the fence-jumping thing (which I don't see as serious). Now that I do, I can see that's what he was referring to as the other case.
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Old 04-25-2019, 03:48 PM
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Googling it, I see he's been arrested twice, for the DUI in 1998 and for burglary in 1995. His explanation of the burglary charge, which was dropped, was that he was trespassing on the UTEP campus, and it was charged as burglary because he hopped a fence in order to do so. The few official records that have been located don't contradict his account. I'm not seeing that anyone is claiming he fled from police on that occasion, though.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:33 PM
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Though the burglary charge is all but inconsequential, the opposition would be keen to soundbite it into “BURGLARY!!!1!1!! which is a problem for him. They have a habit of pounding on non-issues in a way that sometimes makes them resonate.

It might be noted that he was never actually convicted of anything, and put some effort into making good, but in the big theater, the noise often drowns out the signal.
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Old 04-25-2019, 04:38 PM
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Well, obviously his opponents have brought it up in every race he's ever run, and he's done OK so far. And he was not only not convicted of anything, he was never even tried.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:12 PM
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My friend characterizes that last point as a knock on him: basically that he benefited from privilege.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:06 PM
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Arguably a fair point. We would need data on whether blacks in similar situations at that time and place were more likely than whites to be tried, but I would be very surprised if it turned out they weren’t.

Still, I think that’s a dangerous argument. It’s one thing to say that privilege is bad, it’s another entirely to say that people who have been born into privileged groups are bad. What would your friend have had him do, call the DA and demand to be tried and convicted?
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:30 AM
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Pretty sure Beto has done the same math.

And, sadly, ladies and gentlemen, I am loathe to be the bearer of bad news, but God made us a cruel world, a harsh world, and we can no longer deny the truth, but submit to the honesty of the whispers I keep reading on the blackest websites deep within the Dark Web: that our man, Beto, this week just.... just.... just killed the ever-loving shit out of Joaquin Castro.

RIP Joaquin2020. Oh, we will still see you around... I don't even know if you have admitted to yourself the seriousness of this wound, but it is mortal. Please, Joaquin, just don't go broke. Make it to a few debates, I know you want to get to Texas, so... yeah. Just don't go broke.
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*Julian
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Case in point.

RIP Julian.

And I even went to his announcement!
Mea Culpa. Wrong, wrong, and wrong again!
  #149  
Old 11-04-2019, 06:09 AM
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Yes, out goes Beto.

One of my friends is Beto-mad and has been ranting about how the media were so unfair to O'Rourke and how he was the most electable Democrat and how the Republicans are now rejoicing at his withdrawal from the race. The rest of us have been trying to talk him off the rhetorical ledge, in part by pointing out that someone consistently polling at 4% was never going to be "the most electable Democrat", even if one acknowledged his positive contribution to the wider policy discussions.
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Old 11-04-2019, 04:03 PM
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Perhaps O'Rourke should have listened to Joy Behar: "They should not tell everything they’re going to do. If you're going to take people’s guns away, wait until you get elected -- then take the guns away. Don’t tell them ahead of time."
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