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Old 06-25-2019, 12:34 PM
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Advice columnist: Trump raped me in a fitting room


E. Jean Carroll of Elle magazine’s “Ask E. Jean” told CNN that Donald Trump raped her in a fitting room at Bergdorf Goodman in the mid-1990s.

So what are we going to do about this? This is just life now, isn’t it?
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  #2  
Old 06-25-2019, 12:45 PM
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Article here: http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...ccusation.html

Most Republicans in office, and most Trump supporters, are probably going to do nothing. Those of us who actually care very much about fighting rape and sexual assault are going to use this as further fuel to the fire to fight against Trump (and the Republicans in general) in upcoming elections.

This is America. Powerful and wealthy men can rape, grope, and assault, generally with impunity. This has only begun to change very recently, and only slightly -- obviously, it still doesn't have any effect on the President, or most Republicans in general.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 06-25-2019 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:52 PM
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Well, he's denying it of course, saying she isn't his type. So I'm just curious what type of women he does like to sexually assault.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:00 PM
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Ah - the old "she's too ugly to rape" defense.

Unless someone presses charges for something, we're not going to see "no criminal charges" against the president tested in court. This leaves us with impeachment and voting the bastard out.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:05 PM
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Melania must surely be running out of WH staff to revenge fuck by now.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:25 AM
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The accuser has what appears to be an unusual reaction to the alleged rape. She says that she regrets not asking Trump for his tax returns, and that she doesn't want to press charges because it would be disrespectful to women being raped at the border.

She also believes that most people think rape is sexy, which I for one do not.

This could be the break the di Blasio/Ryan/Castro/Booker/Warren/O’Rourke/Klobuchar/Gabbard/Inslee/Delaney/Williamson/Hickenlooper/Yang/Buttigieg/Biden/Sanders/Harris/Gillibrand/Bennet/Swalwell campaign is looking for.

Regards,
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:37 AM
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If you believe that Donald Trump forcibly raped a woman in broad daylight in a public place and NO ONE noticed or mentioned it for 25 years, then you seriously need to take a look at yourself. I guess if someone claimed that he was actually a lizard alien from Alpha Centauri, you'd immediately buy that, too. You're no better than the people who bought into the "Pizzagate" idiocy.

For a place that prides itself on intelligence and "fighting ignorance", this board is certainly full of people who will swallow the most outrageous nonsense as long at it fits their political agenda.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:42 AM
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It's sort of like calling the detention camps "concentration camps": the saddest part is not that it is irrevocably and clearly true, but it should be clearly false.

There shouldn't be a doubt. This fits in with his blatantly professed character enough to take the possibility seriously.

Last edited by Ludovic; 06-26-2019 at 09:42 AM.
  #9  
Old 06-26-2019, 09:48 AM
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The accuser has what appears to be an unusual reaction to the alleged rape. She says that she regrets not asking Trump for his tax returns, and that she doesn't want to press charges because it would be disrespectful to women being raped at the border.

She also believes that most people think rape is sexy, which I for one do not.

This could be the break the di Blasio/Ryan/Castro/Booker/Warren/O’Rourke/Klobuchar/Gabbard/Inslee/Delaney/Williamson/Hickenlooper/Yang/Buttigieg/Biden/Sanders/Harris/Gillibrand/Bennet/Swalwell campaign is looking for.

Regards,
Shodan
More attacks on women for doing nothing more than coming forward and telling their stories. Par for the course, both for America and for conservatives in America, these days -- women must necessarily be attacked if there's even the slightest possibility of some negative political (or business, or career) damage to a prominent man.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:51 AM
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If you believe that Donald Trump forcibly raped a woman in broad daylight in a public place and NO ONE noticed or mentioned it for 25 years, then you seriously need to take a look at yourself. I guess if someone claimed that he was actually a lizard alien from Alpha Centauri, you'd immediately buy that, too. You're no better than the people who bought into the "Pizzagate" idiocy.

For a place that prides itself on intelligence and "fighting ignorance", this board is certainly full of people who will swallow the most outrageous nonsense as long at it fits their political agenda.
She didn't say she was raped "in broad daylight in a public place" -- it was in a dressing room.
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:01 AM
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If you believe that Donald Trump forcibly raped a woman in broad daylight in a public place and NO ONE noticed or mentioned it for 25 years, then you seriously need to take a look at yourself.
You got two key details completely wrong, but thats aid, the sort of thing Carroll actually described happens all the time.

Everyone knows Trump's a sexual assaulter, even if they won't openly admit it. Conservatives just don't care, that's all.
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:15 AM
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If you believe that Donald Trump forcibly raped a woman in broad daylight in a public place and NO ONE noticed or mentioned it for 25 years, then you seriously need to take a look at yourself.
Is that still true even when he brags about it?
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:18 AM
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You got two key details completely wrong, but thats aid, the sort of thing Carroll actually described happens all the time.
Hate crimes happen too, but Jussie Smollet is still a liar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJay
Everyone knows Trump's a sexual assaulter, even if they won't openly admit it. Conservatives just don't care, that's all.
Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it. Liberals just don't care, that's all.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:24 AM
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The thing I don't buy is that Trump stopped her and said "hey you're that advice lady"

Donald Trump reads Elle Magazine? Donald Trump reads?
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:30 AM
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Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it. Liberals just don't care, that's all.
Do we dare search for posts under your name mentioning "Kathleen Willey"?
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Old 06-26-2019, 10:32 AM
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The #MeToo philosophy doesn't demand that everyone believe any and every allegation. It demands that every allegation be taken seriously, and women who tell their stories must not be attacked or criticized for telling their stories without a damn good reason (i.e. proof that they're lying).

That's how decent people, and a decent society, should respond to allegations of sexual harassment, sexual assault, and rape, IMO -- with compassion and with seriousness. Take it seriously and don't attack someone for just telling their story. That's really not that hard to do, but much of America (certainly most prominent Republicans, and most Trump supporters in general) fails again and again. I'll note that most Democrats were failing this standard again and again until recently, but unlike Republicans and Trump supporters, there's actually been some positive movement from that side on this issue.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 06-26-2019 at 10:34 AM.
  #17  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:50 AM
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The #MeToo philosophy doesn't demand that everyone believe any and every allegation. It demands that every allegation be taken seriously...
"I regret not having asked my alleged rapist for his tax returns" is not a statement that can be taken all that seriously.

Regards,
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  #18  
Old 06-26-2019, 10:51 AM
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"I regret not having asked my alleged rapist for his tax returns" is not a statement that can be taken all that seriously.
It wasn't meant to be. Are you seriously unaware that many folks use humor to deal with past trauma?
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:01 AM
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It wasn't meant to be. Are you seriously unaware that many folks use humor to deal with past trauma?
I recommend Carroll's piece at The Cut (excerpted from her book); it is, besides describing all-too-common horrors, chock-a-block with jokes. It's obvious that humor is a coping strategy for her.
Quote:
Had I been an artist, I could have carried the front seat of the car the boy was driving wherever I went on Indiana University’s campus to protest his assault like Emma Sulkowicz carrying her mattress around Columbia University in the greatest art show of 2014, but I didn’t think of it. Perhaps hauling around just the gearshift would have sufficed. But, like many women who are attacked, when I had the most to say, I said the least.
Let’s just double-check my diary: Do I write that I went to the campus police and reported the boy? Do I say I went to the university health clinic and talked with a therapist? No. I say:

Quote:
BE IT KNOWN—

That from this day forth I will not except [sic] or go on any dates that are not of my choice — they must be boys who are to my liking [I can’t read what I crossed out here]. I have to [sic] many things to do — rather than waste my time with CREEPY BOYS.

(signed) Jeanie Carroll
Or:
Quote:
I am not a foodie. Give me a three-cheese foot-long with a mound of red onions on it or a couple of Amy’s organic black-bean burritos and I’m happy. But wild, half-witted, greener-than-green Jeanie Carroll, 50 years before #MeToo, 40 years before women even begin expecting things could be different Jeanie Carroll, who takes her licks and doesn’t look back, is not about to pass up a dinner in the goddamn Pump Room!

Last edited by snoe; 06-26-2019 at 11:04 AM.
  #20  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:13 AM
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Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it. Liberals just don't care, that's all.
Let's, for the sake of argument, say this woman's story turns out to be an exaggeration or even a complete lie.

She would certainly discredit herself.

What responsibility/blame do you think people who currently give her the benefit of the doubt bear for hearing her out? Are they in some way complicit for listening and taking her seriously? Do you believe they would blindly persist in their support if her story was exposed as a lie? Would her alleged falsehoods discredit all the other allegations against Trump?
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:20 AM
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So what are we going to do about this?
Same thing we did the previous fifteen times Trump has been accused of sexual assault.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:22 AM
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Occam's razor points to Trump being guilty of rape whether the accuser is of dubious credibility or has an impeccable character, and all of those in between.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:24 AM
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Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it.
That's the thing. This story doesn't sound fishy. It sounds like the kind of thing Trump would do. It's like a woman saying Bill Clinton had an affair with her.

Donald Trump is a rapist. And Republicans are okay with that.

Last edited by Little Nemo; 06-26-2019 at 11:25 AM.
  #24  
Old 06-26-2019, 11:39 AM
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E. Jean Carroll is a humorist and has some very funny books out. She's been a columnist, a television personality, a journalist, and a speaker. She is very well known in some circles and certainly had the type of celebrity visibility that would be immediately recognized by another person who swam in those exact same New York celebrity circles. The only thing truly unbelievable is that Donald Trump wouldn't have recognized her.

This is the context of the "rape is sexy" cherrypicking quote.

Quote:
Cooper: You don't feel like a victim.

Carroll: I was not thrown on the ground and ravished. Which... the word "rape" carries so many sexual connotations. This was not sexual. It hurt...

Cooper: But I think most people think of rape as a, I mean, it is a violent assault, it is not a--

Carroll: I think most people think of rape as being sexy.

Cooper: [pause] Let's take a short break--

Carroll: They think of the fantasies.
It should not be necessary to say that Carroll never claimed that rape itself is sexy or that her rape was sexy or that any woman's rape is sexy. Yet it has become necessary to do so, because of right-wing media. Can there be a greater indictment of right-wing media and those who spout its lies as reality?
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:40 AM
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"I regret not having asked my alleged rapist for his tax returns" is not a statement that can be taken all that seriously.

Regards,
Shodan
Care to defend your boy's "She's not my type" response to a rape allegation? I mean this sort of defense would be vile coming from a high school student, but yet it's ok when it comes from the head of the Republican Party and President of the United States? Actually, yeah, I guess that sounds about right these days.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:50 AM
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Perhaps he was using humor to deal with a painful situation.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:55 AM
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Perhaps he was using humor to deal with a painful situation.

Regards,
Shodan
Yes, Trump is well-known for his use of humor.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:04 PM
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Yep. He has the best jokes!

Stop him if you've heard this one: "3,000 minors are separated from their parents at the southern border..."
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:17 PM
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Perhaps he was using humor to deal with a painful situation.
We all laughed when he said "I am an extremely stable genius." In truth, few of us can stop laughing when we think of Trump.

But then he'll get accused of rape - yet again - and the smiles quickly droop into sadness.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:23 PM
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Two friends have acknowledged that she told them about the rape at the time and that she is telling the truth that one of them said "You were raped, you have to report this" and the other "Don't tell a soul, he would crush you and ruin your life". I for one believe them, but it's always easy to believe credible accusations against openly horrible people.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:35 PM
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If you believe that Donald Trump forcibly raped a woman in broad daylight in a public place and NO ONE noticed or mentioned it for 25 years, then you seriously need to take a look at yourself.
Someone mentioned it...

"I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything."
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:04 PM
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Melania must surely be running out of WH staff to revenge fuck by now.
She could try revenge fucking the female staffers, but Trump would probably like that too much.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:20 PM
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Hate crimes happen too, but Jussie Smollet is still a liar. Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it. Liberals just don't care, that's all.

Regards,
Shodan
Trump raping Jussie Smollet is worth a thread of its own.
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Old 06-26-2019, 01:37 PM
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Perhaps he was using humor to deal with a painful situation.

Regards,
Shodan
You find the most powerful man in the world punching down at a woman based on her looks and whether she's attractive enough for him to have raped her to be potentially humorous? If it was meant to be humor from Trump, can you fucking defend that?
  #35  
Old 06-26-2019, 02:03 PM
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Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it. Liberals just don't care, that's all.

Regards,
Shodan
So at this point, I have to ask: what would it take for you to believe a woman who said Trump raped her?

Nothing about her story strikes me as fishy. I’m sure if I looked hard enough, I could find a fishier sounding allegation that is nevertheless true. So what about it makes it fishy to you?

Do you have evidence that Carroll is the kind of person who would lie about rape? Perhaps you know something about her character and her trustworthiness that you could share with us, that would help explain why you doubt she’s being honest?

I get the feeling that there is no Trump-defending Republican alive who would believe any woman who said Trump raped her. Even if the woman herself was a card-carrying Republican. And it would be one thing if the guy hadn’t basically admitted to “I don’t even wait” when it comes to getting consent, but you know, he did admit that.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:17 PM
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Hate crimes happen too, but Jussie Smollet is still a liar. Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it. Liberals just don't care, that's all.

Regards,
Shodan
Boy, this is pretty low. Illogical and low. Maybe I should see your acknowledgement that hate crimes happen as a step forward, but since, as far as I can determine, you've never acknowledged in a thread about a particular hate crime that it was, in fact, a hate crime, even that small statement rings hollow.

But that's not what's important here. What's notable is that you throw hate crimes and rape into the same lot. In effect, you're saying, "All these Black/Jewish/Muslim/gay people and all these women coming forward about sexual assault are of a piece." And then you dismiss all.

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Perhaps he was using humor to deal with a painful situation.

Regards,
Shodan
And flippancy to boot. Because most accused criminals joke about their victims to deal with a painful situation.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:32 PM
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... She also believes that most people think rape is sexy, which I for one do not. ...
That was an extremely awkward segment for Anderson Cooper.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:36 PM
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Hate crimes happen too, but Jussie Smollet is still a liar. Everyone knows this woman's story is fishy, even if they won't openly admit it. Liberals just don't care, that's all.
But no part of it is fishy, as you well know. It is a believable account, by a seemingly sane person, against a man who is the subject of an unusual number of such accusations and who brags about doing it.

The weird and irrelevant comparison to Jussie Smollet is stupid. Smollet's story WAS fishy. Many, many "liberals" found it highly suspicious.
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Old 06-26-2019, 02:45 PM
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Cutting to commercial is awkward, but it happens all the time in capitalist countries.

EG: https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-cu...jewish-1407731

Last edited by snoe; 06-26-2019 at 02:47 PM.
  #40  
Old 06-26-2019, 05:30 PM
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Already quoted in post #24.

Although it seems that whenever a woman criticizes society's attitudes toward rape too many men want to shift the conversation elsewhere. Maybe if men shifted their fantasies that rape can be sexy first, the conversation would go a lot smoother.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:50 PM
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Already quoted in post #24. ...
Yeah, but mine included the video (and your post left out the "You're fascinating to talk to"), which is necessary to appreciate the total awkwardness of the situation.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:20 PM
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(i.e. proof that they're lying).
Hey, at least you finally declared your standard out loud.
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Old 06-26-2019, 06:31 PM
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Hey, at least you finally declared your standard out loud.
For my own part I don't demand proof that the woman is lying, but I feel that if an impartial assessment of the facts doesn't lend a fairly high level of doubt to the woman's claims, they should be taken seriously.

So far I haven't heard anything that reduces the credibility of this woman's claim. Certainly Trump's statements on this subject have no credibility whatsoever, given what we know about him.
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Old 06-26-2019, 09:06 PM
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The thing I don't buy is that Trump stopped her and said "hey you're that advice lady"

Donald Trump reads Elle Magazine? Donald Trump reads?
She also had a TV show at the time.
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Old 06-26-2019, 11:55 PM
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If you believe that Donald Trump forcibly raped a woman in broad daylight in a public place and NO ONE noticed or mentioned it for 25 years, then you seriously need to take a look at yourself. I guess if someone claimed that he was actually a lizard alien from Alpha Centauri, you'd immediately buy that, too. You're no better than the people who bought into the "Pizzagate" idiocy.

For a place that prides itself on intelligence and "fighting ignorance", this board is certainly full of people who will swallow the most outrageous nonsense as long at it fits their political agenda.
Get back to us when somebody produces a kid claiming to have been held prisoner in the basement of a pizza joint that doesn't even have a basement.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:17 AM
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But no part of it is fishy, as you well know. It is a believable account, by a seemingly sane person, against a man who is the subject of an unusual number of such accusations and who brags about doing it.
No, it is a fishy story, as you well know.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:24 AM
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The two women Carroll says she told about the attack at the time speak out and corroborate her story:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/p...interview.html

This probably won't mean anything to people who don't particularly value fighting against sexual assault and rape (or at least don't value it as much as fighting liberals), but I'm hopeful that I'm wrong about some of the posters in this thread and they're just posting without thinking.
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Old 06-27-2019, 08:47 AM
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I'm hopeful that I'm wrong about some of the posters in this thread and they're just posting without thinking.
Well, you know what Maya Angelou said, "when someone shows you who they are 39,000 times over the course of 19 years, believe them."
  #49  
Old 06-27-2019, 09:08 AM
spifflog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
For my own part I don't demand proof that the woman is lying, but I feel that if an impartial assessment of the facts doesn't lend a fairly high level of doubt to the woman's claims, they should be taken seriously.

So far I haven't heard anything that reduces the credibility of this woman's claim. Certainly Trump's statements on this subject have no credibility whatsoever, given what we know about him.
And at some point, you have to ask "why didn't this come out 20 years ago?"

Hell I think he's a pig. And I don't like the guy. But what took her 20 frick'n years to come forward? Why now? And why has this woman been assaulted by so many men?

No one is condoning rape or assault. But it's pretty f'ing hard to prove a negative, and it's really hard to prove a negative 20 years later. At some point, you've allowed your opportunity at outrage pass.

Last edited by spifflog; 06-27-2019 at 09:09 AM.
  #50  
Old 06-27-2019, 09:13 AM
QuickSilver is offline
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Originally Posted by spifflog View Post
And at some point, you have to ask "why didn't this come out 20 years ago?"

Hell I think he's a pig. And I don't like the guy. But what took her 20 frick'n years to come forward? Why now? And why has this woman been assaulted by so many men?

No one is condoning rape or assault. But it's pretty f'ing hard to prove a negative, and it's really hard to prove a negative 20 years later. At some point, you've allowed your opportunity at outrage pass.
Having horrible taste in men does not excuse or give men license to be horrible.
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