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  #201  
Old 09-17-2019, 08:00 PM
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I think most Americans think the Dems lost the battle and probably won't be in love with the Dems trying a do over. I understand you wuz robbed, but I'm afraid it's over now unless you come up with something a lot more interesting than this.
  #202  
Old 09-17-2019, 08:13 PM
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The actual Keyser quote is "I don’t have any confidence in the story." (Ford's story, that is)
It’s quite possible that one of my friends may not believe my story of a guy in a MAGA hat masturbating in a coffee shop. Does that mean that I fabricated my story?
  #203  
Old 09-17-2019, 08:33 PM
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It’s quite possible that one of my friends may not believe my story of a guy in a MAGA hat masturbating in a coffee shop. Does that mean that I fabricated my story?
I don't believe you.

...no im not referring to your story. I don't believe that one of your friends wont believe you.
  #204  
Old 09-17-2019, 08:34 PM
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It’s quite possible that one of my friends may not believe my story of a guy in a MAGA hat masturbating in a coffee shop. Does that mean that I fabricated my story?
Would you give this friend's name as a witness to the masturbation incident? That's the only way your story becomes parallel with the Ford story.

Last edited by CarnalK; 09-17-2019 at 08:35 PM.
  #205  
Old 09-18-2019, 12:16 AM
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The bias here makes it impossible to parse through all this.

If he was impeached...it would be for perjury yes? What new info has come to light that would lead to that conclusion?

As far as I know...."I saw some dudes push his penis into a womans hand" isn't relative to his testimony a year ago. and if it is, please. Enlighten me. You know...fight my ignorance and all that. Because its IMPOSSIBLE nowadays to find an unbiased news source.

Even fucking Snopes these days says "Factually incorrect but morally correct"....jackasses.
Ok, so I actually read the transcript of what he said to Congress.

Here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ng-transcript/ <washington post>

MITCHELL: Prior to your nomination for Supreme Court, you’ve talked about all of the female clerks you’ve had, and the women that you’ve worked with. I’m not just talking about them; I’m talking about globally. Have you ever been accused, either formally or informally, of unwanted sexual behavior?

KAVANAUGH: No.

Unwanted sexual behavior would include dropping your pants in front of people who obviously don't all consent to such act if it's in some social gathering.

I notice a loophole here: apparently Kavanaugh could have engaged in all the unwanted sexual behavior he wanted, so long as no one has ever said anything to him about it. In fact, in the case of Dr. Ford, after he left her alone she never said anything to him after that per her own testimony.
  #206  
Old 09-18-2019, 08:55 AM
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Plus, they were given only a week to do it.

But not everyone was actually paying attention at the time, or wanted to, apparently.
  #207  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:09 AM
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It’s quite possible that one of my friends may not believe my story of a guy in a MAGA hat masturbating in a coffee shop. Does that mean that I fabricated my story?
If you told us "My friend was there too. He saw it." and he says "I don't remember that at all" then it starts to look that way.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-18-2019 at 09:12 AM.
  #208  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:33 AM
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If you told us "My friend was there too. He saw it." and he says "I don't remember that at all" then it starts to look that way.
There were probably 70 people in the store who didn't see it. So, Justice MAGA Masturbator shouldn't have his name sullied, eh?
  #209  
Old 09-18-2019, 09:43 AM
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https://www.newsweek.com/fox-busines...-phase-1459866

Some Fox hosts seem to accept the allegations as likely true, but argue that we shouldn't be firing people thirty years after teenage misbehavior.

That misses how this impacts the job of SCOTUS justice - he lied. Or at the very least, there's very good reason to suspect he lied, and there has been nothing close to a thorough investigation of whether he lied. A SCOTUS without integrity can't possibly function in the long term. If the population sees it as a corrupt institution, the country is in very serious trouble.
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  #210  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:33 AM
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I think most Americans think the Dems lost the battle and probably won't be in love with the Dems trying a do over. I understand you wuz robbed, but I'm afraid it's over now unless you come up with something a lot more interesting than this.
This seems like accurate punditry to me as far as it goes. But it also strikes me as weird to view this through the lens of some kind of partisan horse race reality show. Is that really the most salient angle on this to you?

Why not view this through the lens of a human concerned about our society giving one of its most honorable and prestigious positions to someone who may have repeatedly sexually assaulted women? Or through the lens of someone who thinks it is problematic to have a Supreme Court justice mislead the Senate in his confirmation? Or someone concerned that the FBI do an investigation that does not involve talking to people who told that the FBI that they had relevant information?

I don't think talking about or investigating this raises any possibility whatsoever of removing Kavanaugh from the bench. But surely you see that there are other reasons to do so, right?
  #211  
Old 09-18-2019, 10:48 AM
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... A big part of the Kavanaugh bombshell was that some 25 witnesses did, in fact, come forward to offer testimony to the FBI, and the FBI turned them away. ...
That's not what the articles in the OP say:

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Ms. Ramirez’s legal team gave the F.B.I. a list of at least 25 individuals who may have had corroborating evidence.
Ramirez gave the FBI 25 names. The deceitful authors claim that "many of these potential witnesses tried in vain to reach the F.B.I. on their own", but they've given us no reason to believe that and several reasons not to. What number is "many"? What method(s) did they use to reach out to the FBI? What testimony, if any, were they prepared to offer? Names, dates, and quotes would go a long ways to repairing the authors' damaged credibility here.

AFAIK, the list of named individuals who claim to have seen for themselves Ramirez touch Kavanaugh's dick remains at just one: Ramirez. I'm certainly open to correction, and I'd imagine a good number of you would be eager to do so if I'm wrong on this. Am I?
  #212  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:26 AM
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This seems like accurate punditry to me as far as it goes. But it also strikes me as weird to view this through the lens of some kind of partisan horse race reality show. Is that really the most salient angle on this to you?

Why not view this through the lens of a human concerned about our society giving one of its most honorable and prestigious positions to someone who may have repeatedly sexually assaulted women? Or through the lens of someone who thinks it is problematic to have a Supreme Court justice mislead the Senate in his confirmation? Or someone concerned that the FBI do an investigation that does not involve talking to people who told that the FBI that they had relevant information?

I don't think talking about or investigating this raises any possibility whatsoever of removing Kavanaugh from the bench. But surely you see that there are other reasons to do so, right?
I understand those concerns and if the allegations are true I wish he had faced some retribution. But no, even still I can't see a Congressional investigation into the exact events of a drunken teenage party from 30+ years ago doing any good now.

Last edited by CarnalK; 09-18-2019 at 11:27 AM.
  #213  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:30 AM
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What number is "many"? What method(s) did they use to reach out to the FBI? What testimony, if any, were they prepared to offer?
And what is a "penis," anyway? Where do I go to there? And who can say what a Brett Kavanaugh is? Who is Yale University? Why is touching your own "penis" okay but it isn't okay to make another person touch it? Does anyone actually know how to spell "sexual asssaulllt?"

Clearly, there are a lot of unanswered questions. Millions and millions.
  #214  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:41 AM
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And what is a "penis," anyway? Where do I go to there? And who can say what a Brett Kavanaugh is? Who is Yale University? Why is touching your own "penis" okay but it isn't okay to make another person touch it? Does anyone actually know how to spell "sexual asssaulllt?"

Clearly, there are a lot of unanswered questions. Millions and millions.
Should I take this as confirmation that the only person who thinks they saw Ramirez touch Kavanaugh is Ramirez herself?

And this:


Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-18-2019 at 11:42 AM.
  #215  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:49 AM
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AFAIK, the list of named individuals who claim to have seen for themselves Ramirez touch Kavanaugh's dick remains at just one: Ramirez. I'm certainly open to correction, and I'd imagine a good number of you would be eager to do so if I'm wrong on this. Am I?
I know. Let's open an investigation, to be conducted at length until we have a good idea of what may or may not have happened. People would be interviewed under oath and their credibility could be judged. And it would probably be a good idea not to set some sort of random time period for this to happen. The investigation would go on as long as needed, no more, no less. That way, it could be determined if perhaps Kavanaugh should be impeached, or we can consider his name cleared.

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  #216  
Old 09-18-2019, 11:57 AM
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Perhaps Max Stier would be a good person to start with.

And then maybe others.

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Though the FBI did interview Ramirez in September 2018, it did not interview some 25 individuals named by Ramirez as potentially having corroborating evidence of her allegations, according to The Times.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 09-18-2019 at 12:00 PM.
  #217  
Old 09-18-2019, 12:04 PM
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Perhaps Max Stier would be a good person to start with.

And then maybe others.
Do you realize that precisely NO ONE alleges that Max Stier was at the party where Ramirez thinks she might have touched Kavanaugh? Not Ramirez, not Max Stier, not the "officials who have communicated with Mr. Stier", not the woman whose friends say she doesn't have any recollection of the incident. Nobody.
  #218  
Old 09-18-2019, 01:11 PM
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I understand those concerns and if the allegations are true I wish he had faced some retribution. But no, even still I can't see a Congressional investigation into the exact events of a drunken teenage party from 30+ years ago doing any good now.
That seems overly narrow. Don't you want to know why the FBI didn't talk to these people? Don't you want to know if Kavanaugh lied (he denies that anything remotely like this occurred, after all)? Neither of those necessarily depend on finding the exact truth of what happened 30+ years ago.
  #219  
Old 09-18-2019, 02:23 PM
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Kavanaugh is what happens when Brock Turner goes unpunished.
  #220  
Old 09-18-2019, 02:30 PM
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Do you realize that precisely NO ONE alleges that Max Stier was at the party where Ramirez thinks she might have touched Kavanaugh? Not Ramirez, not Max Stier, not the "officials who have communicated with Mr. Stier", not the woman whose friends say she doesn't have any recollection of the incident. Nobody.
From my link:

Quote:
...Max Stier said he saw Kavanaugh at a drunken dorm party where his friends pushed his penis into a female student's hands. Kavanaugh was reportedly a freshman at the time of the incident.
I am saying this should perhaps be investigated. Thanks for pointing out to me the Ramirez details.

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  #221  
Old 09-18-2019, 02:52 PM
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... I am saying this should perhaps be investigated. ...
Who would you want to investigate that? The FBI? There's no federal crime there. The state / local police? There's no police report, even if the acts amounted to a crime, which it's not clear they did, and if the statute of limitations hasn't passed, which I'd be pretty surprised. The supposed victim apparently doesn't recall it. Max Stier doesn't want to discuss it. We don't even know who the anonymous "officials" are that the authors' claim as their source. You think it's a good use of the authority's time to investigate decades-old rumors of something that might not even be a crime from a drunken dorm party?
  #222  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:02 PM
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The cover-up "investigation" was by the FBI the last time.

You really weren't paying attention, were you?
  #223  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:09 PM
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The FBI? There's no federal crime there.
The FBI has investigated my background with respect to my suitability for a position of trust with the U.S. Government. I would generally expect that they should do a good and thorough job in that mission, even if it isn't for the purposes of prosecuting me for a crime.
  #224  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:37 PM
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The FBI has investigated my background with respect to my suitability for a position of trust with the U.S. Government. I would generally expect that they should do a good and thorough job in that mission, even if it isn't for the purposes of prosecuting me for a crime.
Sure, and they investigated Justice Kavanaugh for that same purpose. He's now been given that "position of trust" and is no longer under consideration for one. What purpose would another FBI investigation serve at this point?
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:42 PM
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That seems overly narrow. Don't you want to know why the FBI didn't talk to these people? Don't you want to know if Kavanaugh lied (he denies that anything remotely like this occurred, after all)? Neither of those necessarily depend on finding the exact truth of what happened 30+ years ago.
If you want to know why the FBI didn't interview them, can't we just ask them? Or do you want an investigation of the investigation?
  #226  
Old 09-18-2019, 03:44 PM
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Lying to congress is a federal crime. And not a 30 year old crime. Just under a year old.
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Old 09-18-2019, 03:58 PM
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From my link:



I am saying this should perhaps be investigated. Thanks for pointing out to me the Ramirez details.
If a crime was alleged to have been committed, then yes, it should be investigated. She should go file a police report with the college, or the town where they were at when the crime was committed.

But the FBI? What federal crime was committed?
  #228  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:05 PM
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Lying to congress is a federal crime.
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But the FBI? What federal crime was committed?
Looks like this question has been answered
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  #229  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:10 PM
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If you want to know why the FBI didn't interview them, can't we just ask them? Or do you want an investigation of the investigation?
The way "we just ask them" is to have our congressional representatives do so, no? I suppose I could call them up and ask for answers, but I doubt they'll put through my call.

That kind of inquiry by an appropriate committee certainly seems like a good place to start to me. Obviously, whether more would be needed on that front depends on their answers and how forthcoming they are. I rather suspect that they did such a cursory investigation for political reasons so as not to become entangled in a high-profile partisan fight. But I kinda doubt they will say that. So we might need to dig a little.

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  #230  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:19 PM
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Looks like this question has been answered
So the real question is about whether or not he lied to Congress? And whether or not that in itself is deserving of an FBI investigation.

I think we are now off the beaten path of trying to get justice for this poor woman and more along the path of it being a witch hunt for political gain. (Which is where I figured we'd end up …)
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:24 PM
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So the real question is about whether or not he lied to Congress? And whether or not that in itself is deserving of an FBI investigation.

I think we are now off the beaten path of trying to get justice for this poor woman and more along the path of it being a witch hunt for political gain. (Which is where I figured we'd end up …)
Whitewater
Benghazi
Her Emails

All of a sudden the Right is worried about witch hunts for political gain? That is quite a turnaround indeed! I'm glad the next Democratic administration will not have to worry about such things. A big relief, that is!
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  #232  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:31 PM
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So the real question is about whether or not he lied to Congress?
It certainly is a real question whether he lied to Congress, which you will agree is a federal crime?

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it being a witch hunt for political gain. (Which is where I figured we'd end up …)
I would think that if there’s strong evidence of someone having committed a serious federal crime, that crime should be investigated. It would be less of a witch hunt and more of a criminal investigation, which I would think would be the appropriate role of some sort of investigative agency.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:32 PM
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... if there’s strong evidence of someone having committed a serious federal crime...
But there's not.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:36 PM
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But there's not.

Indeed
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:36 PM
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But there's not.
But there is....
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:37 PM
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Who would you want to investigate that? The FBI? There's no federal crime there. The state / local police? There's no police report, even if the acts amounted to a crime, which it's not clear they did, and if the statute of limitations hasn't passed, which I'd be pretty surprised. The supposed victim apparently doesn't recall it. Max Stier doesn't want to discuss it. We don't even know who the anonymous "officials" are that the authors' claim as their source. You think it's a good use of the authority's time to investigate decades-old rumors of something that might not even be a crime from a drunken dorm party?
As I said:

"That way, it could be determined if perhaps Kavanaugh should be impeached..."

There doesn't have to be a federal crime needing investigation to start impeachment proceedings against Kavanaugh. So as to who I'd want to investigate something, why don't you tell me who is most appropriate. Makes no never mind to me, as long as it's thorough this time.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:37 PM
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Whitewater
Benghazi
Her Emails

All of a sudden the Right is worried about witch hunts for political gain? That is quite a turnaround indeed! I'm glad the next Democratic administration will not have to worry about such things. A big relief, that is!
I hate to say it, but with Benghazi, there was a mistake made. (failure to provide sufficient military support). There was a department responsible for the mistake. There were official federal documents and a communication chain and a chain of responsibility. It was pretty clear, in writing, who knew what when, and who was responsible for what. (as I recall Clinton was never party to this decision and was only theoretically responsible)

The emails were actual computer records that could be inspected.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:38 PM
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Indeed
Certainly if you ignore all the evidence there isn’t any evidence. Checkmate I guess.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:38 PM
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Whitewater
Benghazi
Her Emails

All of a sudden the Right is worried about witch hunts for political gain? That is quite a turnaround indeed! I'm glad the next Democratic administration will not have to worry about such things. A big relief, that is!
And here I thought this was about justice for the poor sexually assaulted woman

Relief indeed!
  #240  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:38 PM
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But there is....
What, in your mind, is the "strong evidence" that Justice Kavanaugh lied to Congress?
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:39 PM
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Certainly if you ignore all the evidence there isn’t any evidence. Checkmate I guess.
This has been asked before but I'll try again, what evidence?
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:40 PM
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... start impeachment proceedings ...
Ahhh, the Left's favorite new buzzphrase, trying so hard to appease the radicals and not scare the moderates. I suspect it fails on both counts.

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  #243  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:43 PM
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Sure, and they investigated Justice Kavanaugh for that same purpose.
I don't know for sure, but its possible that my background investigation was more through. I don't think the FBI just said, "Hey, we tried to reach someone for all of a couple days but didn't connect, so case closed!"

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He's now been given that "position of trust" and is no longer under consideration for one. What purpose would another FBI investigation serve at this point?
Well, I certainly can guess why you DON'T want an investigation done.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:44 PM
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What, in your mind, is the "strong evidence" that Justice Kavanaugh lied to Congress?
I’ve told you that repeatedly, in multiple threads. Not sure I can fight “willful”.
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:45 PM
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... Well, I certainly can guess why you DON'T want an investigation done.
And I can guess why you and your colleagues do. Is that the game we're going to play now: Guessing at each other's motives?
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:45 PM
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Ahhh, the Left's favorite new buzzphrase, trying so hard to appease their radicals and not scare their moderates.
I have no idea what this means. How does the whole of the "Left" appease various factions within it? Anyway, since you didn't address what I said, do you agree then that should impeachment proceedings begin, there should be a thorough investigation this time?
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Old 09-18-2019, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
This has been asked before but I'll try again, what evidence?
And it’s been answered before. The water’s right there, buddy, for whenever you choose to drink.
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According to the Anti-Defamation League, "In 2018, domestic extremists killed at least 50 people in the US, a sharp increase from the 37 extremist-related murders documented in 2017....every single extremist killing — from Pittsburgh to Parkland — had a link to right-wing extremism."
  #248  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:46 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by Evil Economist View Post
I’ve told you that repeatedly, in multiple threads. Not sure I can fight “willful”.
LOL! Precisely the evasion I expected, and right on cue. Good show, good sir.
  #249  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:50 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
I have no idea what this means. How does the whole of the "Left" appease various factions within it? Anyway, since you didn't address what I said, do you agree then that should impeachment proceedings begin, there should be a thorough investigation this time?
In case my position wasn't clear, I think there have already been several investigations of Kavanaugh's background. He might well be the most thoroughly-investigated SCOTUS justice we've ever had.

If the dems in the House decide to "begin impeachment proceedings" against Justice Kavanaugh I suppose they can do it however they like. It appears, thus far at least, they've chosen not to. Maybe you should write your Congresscritter about that.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-18-2019 at 04:52 PM.
  #250  
Old 09-18-2019, 04:53 PM
Evil Economist is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
LOL! Precisely the evasion I expected, and right on cue. Good show, good sir.
Let’s make a bet. I bet that I can link to an existing thread where I have provided an answer to this question for you. You, based on your claim that this is an evasion, will presumably bet that I cannot. Now let’s decide what humiliating thing you have to do if I win the bet.
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According to the Anti-Defamation League, "In 2018, domestic extremists killed at least 50 people in the US, a sharp increase from the 37 extremist-related murders documented in 2017....every single extremist killing — from Pittsburgh to Parkland — had a link to right-wing extremism."
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