View Poll Results: How will the Trump presidency end?
Trump leaves on his own terms after serving either four or eight years in office, like normal presidents 92 50.55%
Trump is impeached and deposed from office by Congress 24 13.19%
Trump resigns (for whatever reason) 38 20.88%
Trump dies in office 11 6.04%
Other answer 17 9.34%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 10-04-2019, 07:07 PM
KarlGauss's Avatar
KarlGauss is online now
Entangled
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Between pole and tropic
Posts: 8,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
. . . I think he's going to be just like Nixon, hounded out and pressured out, maybe by his own party trying to salvage something out of this rat fuck.
Yup. Earlier I said that he'll be given a choice to be the second to resign or the first to be removed by impeachment, and choose resignation.

Now I wonder though whether being the "first and only" might actually appeal to him. Only uniqueness for the stable genius.
  #52  
Old 10-04-2019, 07:58 PM
mjmlabs's Avatar
mjmlabs is offline
A Rather Dubious Fellow Indeed
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: The Last Green Valley
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlGauss View Post
Yup. Earlier I said that he'll be given a choice to be the second to resign or the first to be removed by impeachment, and choose resignation.



Now I wonder though whether being the "first and only" might actually appeal to him. Only uniqueness for the stable genius.
He does seem more likely to pursue (figurative) martyrdom than to ever willingly surrender. I'm sure he'd rather spend the rest of his days whining about how unfair the whole thing was to poor widdle' him. Whether that's on Faux or on TrumpTV, he's not apt to go away quietly unless he goes upstate.

Sent from my SM-S727VL using Tapatalk
__________________
Take care of yourselves, and those around you. -- Margo Timmins
  #53  
Old 10-04-2019, 09:05 PM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,394
<other> When Ivanka is sworn in as the next Dear Leader in 2028 She got 99.5% of the vote!
  #54  
Old 10-05-2019, 06:03 AM
RioRico is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
^ if you guys truly believe this, and you are not now at this very moment either stockpiling weapons and emergency supplies for an insurgency against this future regime, or making arrangements to be able to escape the country for another one when the time comes, then you do not actually believe it.
Our passports are up to date. Is yours? I only regret not now living near a border. But if Tramp false-flag nukes San Francisco as pretext for emergency rule, fallout will get us.

Stockpiling weapons? To use against Tramp's stormtroopers as they pacify the cities? That'll go well.

Do I really BELIEVE Tramp will pull end-of-the-world shit? No, I can't twist myself that far. I'm in no position to do more than stay packed. But I do FEAR grotesque violence, much worse than what's now being incited. How far can we trust Tramp NOT to go?
  #55  
Old 10-05-2019, 11:27 AM
Euphonious Polemic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,394
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
Our passports are up to date. Is yours? I only regret not now living near a border. But if Tramp false-flag nukes San Francisco as pretext for emergency rule, fallout will get us.

Stockpiling weapons? To use against Tramp's stormtroopers as they pacify the cities? That'll go well.

Do I really BELIEVE Tramp will pull end-of-the-world shit? No, I can't twist myself that far. I'm in no position to do more than stay packed. But I do FEAR grotesque violence, much worse than what's now being incited. How far can we trust Tramp NOT to go?
I think it's almost a certainty that if/when Trump loses in 2020 he will CALL for violence. Probably in much more explicit ways than he's done so far.

But it's likely that apart from a few random nutters, most citizens will simply ignore him.
  #56  
Old 10-05-2019, 11:32 AM
Son of a Rich's Avatar
Son of a Rich is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Barsoom
Posts: 4,319
I think once he's voted out, or removed, most Republicans will be glad to see this embarrassment gone from their midst. The tax break went through, and that more than they ever expected from the asshole.
  #57  
Old 10-05-2019, 09:50 PM
Paul in Qatar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dammam, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 12,991
He looks ill so an unexpected death cannot be ruled out. (My the conspiracy people would have a field day.) All in all, between his age and his certain impeachment in the House, I could see him not running for a second term.


Can he keep the campaign money he is raising? That might be a factor.
__________________
800-237-5055
Shrine Hospitals for Children (North America)
Never any fee
Do you know a child in need?
  #58  
Old 10-05-2019, 11:38 PM
Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 86,251
Dies in office, I think. Terrible dietary habits, little exercise, frequent rages, high-stress job. But maybe some of it is wishful thinking on my part, too....
  #59  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:20 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,050
I lean toward dying in office due to heart attack, but he could work out a pardon deal with Pence and ensure that he and his family will be immunized against federal prosecution -- he'll probably pardon himself and his family just to be on the safe side before leaving.
  #60  
Old 10-06-2019, 11:13 AM
Velocity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 15,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Dies in office, I think. Terrible dietary habits, little exercise, frequent rages, high-stress job. But maybe some of it is wishful thinking on my part, too....
For him to die in office, it would either have to happen between now and January 2021, which is a pretty narrow sliver of time - or he would have to be reelected, which would be a pretty low possibility itself.
  #61  
Old 10-06-2019, 11:14 AM
Velocity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 15,654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
Can he keep the campaign money he is raising? That might be a factor.
I'm pretty sure he cannot keep the campaign money he's raised, and even if he did, it would amount to only a small fraction of his personal wealth, so it's not likely to be a motivation factor.
  #62  
Old 10-06-2019, 01:24 PM
Lamoral's Avatar
Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,902
I think the odds of Trump resigning are somewhere in the neighborhood of George Russell winning the next Formula One race. To put that in perspective, a $250 bet on that outcome would yield a payout of one million dollars. Trump is not the kind of person to ever admit even the most minor kind of failure. He does not defend, he attacks. He would never, ever, ever do something as chivalrous as resigning - that's what the act of resignation is, it's basically old-school chivalry, bowing out in a way that's supposed to save face. But Trump wouldn't see it as saving face. He'd see it as being a bitch. He would fight it out to the bitter end, kicking and screaming all the while. He'd have to be dragged out in chains. It would be something done TO him and not something done BY him, which means he can blame someone else for it - he's OK with that scenario.

Anyone assuming that Pence would easily be defeated in a presidential election is making a very specious assumption. As Trump's VP, he's possibly the only other person alive besides Trump who could keep Trumpism going as a viable movement, if for no other reason than that direct connection. Remember that it was largely Pence which made it possible for evangelical America to see their way clear to embracing Trump. Now they've fully embraced him, but people forget that there was a time when they really favored Cruz and weren't at all sold on Trump's fundamentally secular brand of lowbrow populism. Pence was Trump's ticket to winning that constituency.
  #63  
Old 10-06-2019, 03:06 PM
erysichthon's Avatar
erysichthon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,646
I went with "other answer." Trump will lose in 2020, and the next day he'll tweet about "massive voter fraud" and say that everything should be put on hold pending an investigation. He'll be talked out of it and leave peacefully, but it certainly won't be "on his own terms."
  #64  
Old 10-06-2019, 04:17 PM
Fentoine Lum is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlGauss View Post
Yup. Earlier I said that he'll be given a choice to be the second to resign or the first to be removed by impeachment, and choose resignation.

Now I wonder though whether being the "first and only" might actually appeal to him. Only uniqueness for the stable genius.
However Don leaves, it will be someone else's fault as per usual, and his departure will be "winning".
  #65  
Old 10-06-2019, 04:18 PM
Fentoine Lum is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
I'm pretty sure he cannot keep the campaign money he's raised, and even if he did, it would amount to only a small fraction of his personal wealth, so it's not likely to be a motivation factor.
Wtf knows what Don's "personal wealth" is?
  #66  
Old 10-06-2019, 05:38 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 82,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
Trump is not the kind of person to ever admit even the most minor kind of failure. He does not defend, he attacks. He would never, ever, ever do something as chivalrous as resigning - that's what the act of resignation is, it's basically old-school chivalry, bowing out in a way that's supposed to save face. But Trump wouldn't see it as saving face. He'd see it as being a bitch. He would fight it out to the bitter end, kicking and screaming all the while. He'd have to be dragged out in chains. It would be something done TO him and not something done BY him, which means he can blame someone else for it - he's OK with that scenario.
Maybe somebody will put it in terms Trump can accept; they should tell him that resignation is the political equivalent of declaring bankruptcy - things aren't going as well as you hoped so you cut your losses and move on.
  #67  
Old 10-06-2019, 05:42 PM
Fentoine Lum is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Maybe somebody will put it in terms Trump can accept; they should tell him that resignation is the political equivalent of declaring bankruptcy - things aren't going as well as you hoped so you cut your losses and move on.
And you'll still be able to cuddle with and fondle Ivanka while no one will force you to be photographed with Tiffany.
  #68  
Old 10-06-2019, 05:49 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 82,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul in Qatar View Post
Can he keep the campaign money he is raising? That might be a factor.
Not directly. He has to launder it.

Trump can't simply pocket donations that were made to his political campaign. Those are only supposed to be spent on expenses related to his campaign. If there's anything left over, it's supposed to be donated to other political causes. Trump's not legally allowed to pocket any of the money.

But there are ways around this. The law allows a pretty broad definition of what a campaign expense is. And there's no conflict of interest limitations. So Trump can schedule campaign events in properties he owns. And then Trump the candidate writes a check to Trump the property owner for the use of the property (and obviously, there's ample opportunity for collusion when Trump is negotiating prices with himself). The result of which is that Trump ends up pocketing money from his campaign funds. (This isn't hypothetical; Trump has actually been doing this.)
  #69  
Old 10-06-2019, 09:48 PM
guizot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: An East Hollywood dingbat
Posts: 8,781
This same thread/poll was done about three years ago (right after he was elected), and I said this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by me, three years ago
I think there's a good chance that Trump's presidency will end in disgrace.

He has surrounded himself with a band of Craven Sycophants, many of them them unprincipled, long-time political insider-opportunists with fading careers, who saw how easily he could manipulate ignorant voters, and were willing to roll the dice by jumping on his wagon.

They gambled and won. But like many gamblers, they won't know when to stop. They're very likely to start engaging in shameless, self-serving overreach, and eventually the media will expose it.

Trump has figured out how to manage his own media image, but he won't be be able to control the Crave Sycophants. In fact, he'll depend on them, because he doesn't give a shit enough to learn about things, and this dependency will give them a false sense of impunity.

Meanwhile, he won't, of course, be able to "make America white great" again, or create all those jobs, or stop ISIS, or whatever, and when the economy becomes worse, enough people will see that he was full of shit all along and not vote for him again.

This all seems very likely to me.
The only thing I'd change is that he's turned out to be a bigger ass than I'd expected, and his supporters even stupider. He just might get elected again, even in the face of obvious corruption.
  #70  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:16 AM
Swampwolf is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 2,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
Anyone assuming that Pence would easily be defeated in a presidential election is making a very specious assumption. As Trump's VP, he's possibly the only other person alive besides Trump who could keep Trumpism going as a viable movement, if for no other reason than that direct connection.
I disagree--say what you will about Trump, he's charismatic to a certain demographic. He's a spicy cuban sandwich to Pence's mayo and lettuce on whitebread. Sure, he'll get the evangelical and the other "never democrats" but the independents and fence-sitters will be hard to convince. I don't even know what Pence's voice sounds like, he's been in the background so long. Additionally, as more and more info comes out, I can't help but wonder if he'll be implicated as well.

As far as how Trump's presidency ends? I think he's going to follow in Nixon's footsteps and quit--but he'll have a reason that's completely unrelated to impeachment and collusion and illegal dealing and everything else Pelosi's Posse has falsely accused him of*. It'll be a COMPLETELY and totally LEGITIMATE REASON. The best reasons. But I believe he'll take a knee. heh.

* hashtagsarcasm
  #71  
Old 10-07-2019, 02:01 PM
Fentoine Lum is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampwolf View Post
I disagree--say what you will about Trump, he's charismatic to a certain demographic. He's a spicy cuban sandwich to Pence's mayo and lettuce on whitebread. Sure, he'll get the evangelical and the other "never democrats" but the independents and fence-sitters will be hard to convince. I don't even know what Pence's voice sounds like, he's been in the background so long. Additionally, as more and more info comes out, I can't help but wonder if he'll be implicated as well.

As far as how Trump's presidency ends? I think he's going to follow in Nixon's footsteps and quit--but he'll have a reason that's completely unrelated to impeachment and collusion and illegal dealing and everything else Pelosi's Posse has falsely accused him of*. It'll be a COMPLETELY and totally LEGITIMATE REASON. The best reasons. But I believe he'll take a knee. heh.

* hashtagsarcasm
Charlie Manson charismatic to a certain demographic.
  #72  
Old 10-07-2019, 02:17 PM
Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 36,312
My answer is: Yes
  #73  
Old 10-07-2019, 04:07 PM
Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 82,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swampwolf View Post
I think he's going to follow in Nixon's footsteps and quit--but he'll have a reason that's completely unrelated to impeachment and collusion and illegal dealing and everything else Pelosi's Posse has falsely accused him of*. It'll be a COMPLETELY and totally LEGITIMATE REASON. The best reasons. But I believe he'll take a knee.
Trump will resign so he can spend less time with his family.
  #74  
Old 10-08-2019, 05:37 AM
Gyrate is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greater Croydonia
Posts: 23,968
It will all end in tears.

Or fire. One of those.
  #75  
Old 10-08-2019, 08:41 AM
BobLibDem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Home 07 NCAA HockeyChamps
Posts: 21,805
It ends with Pence walking into the Oval Office holding a bloody machete, then seeing a note on top of the Resolute Desk reading "Drop the bomb- exterminate them all".
  #76  
Old 10-13-2019, 04:22 AM
jellyblue is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
Dies in office, I think. Terrible dietary habits, little exercise, frequent rages, high-stress job. But maybe some of it is wishful thinking on my part, too....
I remember saying this about Cheney in the Bush administration and he's STILL ALIVE. I suspect he has been having monthly clandestine blood transfusions from kidnapped Third World youths though...
__________________
Where am I going? And why am I in this handbasket?
  #77  
Old 10-13-2019, 08:06 AM
JKellyMap's Avatar
JKellyMap is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Trump will resign so he can spend less time with his family.
Heh.
  #78  
Old 10-13-2019, 08:33 AM
Annoyed is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 431
Quite the disturbing little thread this is.
  #79  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:11 PM
KarlGauss's Avatar
KarlGauss is online now
Entangled
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Between pole and tropic
Posts: 8,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
Quite the disturbing little thread this is.
Agreed.

Even the words "Trump presidency" give me the willies.
  #80  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:27 PM
I Love Me, Vol. I's Avatar
I Love Me, Vol. I is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SF
Posts: 4,651
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
What Lamoral said. This sounds no different than nutters claiming that Obama was coming to take all their guns. If people really believe that Trump is going to go all North Korean Kim dictator on them, they seem awfully chill about it.
Baby, It's Cold Outside.
  #81  
Old 10-13-2019, 07:09 PM
Sam Stone is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Posts: 28,286
In order of probability:

1. He loses the 2020 election, and becomes the most annoying ex-president ever with a hyper-active Twitter Finger and a martyr complex.

2. The Democrats nominate an unelectable candidate, Trump wins a second term, and you get four more years of constant impeachment fever before he leaves and begins his reign of Twitter terror.

3. Trump dies in office or has such severe medical issues that he is forced to resign. Or, he walks and talks himself into a political corner then his 'health forces him to resign' rather than admit he failed at something.

What won't happen is Trump refuses to hand over power, or declaring the election invalid, or any of that nonsense. He can't do it even if he wanted to. He is surrounded by people who dislike him and distrust him, and the minute he even threatened to do such a thing in private it would be leaked and everyone would go insane.

Trump is a weak president in that he is surrounded by people who will not let him step an inch out of line without blowing the whistle on him.
  #82  
Old 10-13-2019, 07:15 PM
DigitalC is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Obamatopia
Posts: 11,177
I wanted to vote for the first option but "leaves on his own terms" didn't sound quite right. Dragged out kicking and screaming after losing in 2020 would be more fitting.
  #83  
Old 10-13-2019, 07:15 PM
KarlGauss's Avatar
KarlGauss is online now
Entangled
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Between pole and tropic
Posts: 8,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
Trump is a weak president
Yes
Quote:
. . . in that he is surrounded by people who will not let him step an inch out of line without blowing the whistle on him.
Not let him step out of line?

You don't need a whistleblower to know which whistles haven't blown.
  #84  
Old 10-17-2019, 02:11 PM
racepug is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Snohomish County, WA
Posts: 1,149
I don't see him being removed from office (unfortunately). I do think he'll lose the 2020 election (I certainly hope he does) but I don't think he'll go quietly (like normal people do) whether it's in 2021 or 2025.
  #85  
Old 10-17-2019, 04:59 PM
Miller's Avatar
Miller is offline
Sith Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Bear Flag Republic
Posts: 44,545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Stone View Post
What won't happen is Trump refuses to hand over power, or declaring the election invalid, or any of that nonsense.
I think you need to separate out "Trump refusing to leave office," and "Anyone going along with him," into two different probabilities. The former is, I think, extremely likely. The latter, not so much. If Trump loses in 2020, we're pretty much guaranteed to regular Tweet rages about how the election was "stolen" from him, starting in November, and continuing on until the day he finally dies.
  #86  
Old 10-17-2019, 11:47 PM
RioRico is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 377
His comforting (for the US) departure will be to die in office.
Well, not so comforting if Pence replaces him.
But it beats a raw military takeover.

The scary part is, how does he go, and helped by whom?

A 'soft' coup will have him suffer a stroke or whatever, helped by a subtle chemical or laser beam. A 'hard' coup will see him (and several minions) die tragically in a plane or limo crash, or fall from an open window, or eat toxic cheeseburgers.

What is worse: a flagrantly treasonous POTUS, or a military coup removing him?

(Don't bring up Deep State. If such existed, he'd never have grabbed the Oval Office.)
  #87  
Old 10-18-2019, 12:13 AM
Ike Witt's Avatar
Ike Witt is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost in the mists of time
Posts: 14,942
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
(Don't bring up Deep State. If such existed, he'd never have grabbed the Oval Office.)
I can't help but laugh my ass off to see this at the end of that post. Classic new guy.
  #88  
Old 10-18-2019, 02:57 AM
RioRico is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: beyond cell service
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Witt View Post
I can't help but laugh my ass off to see this at the end of that post. Classic new guy.
Please explain how a competent, nearly-omnipotent Deep State conspiracy beholden to a nefarious Obama-Clinton-Podesta-etc cabal would allow critical state vote counts to go for DJT, thus giving him the White House. No wait, don't bother. I'm not religious.
  #89  
Old 10-18-2019, 09:28 AM
XT's Avatar
XT is offline
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 35,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by RioRico View Post
His comforting (for the US) departure will be to die in office.
Well, not so comforting if Pence replaces him.
But it beats a raw military takeover.

The scary part is, how does he go, and helped by whom?

A 'soft' coup will have him suffer a stroke or whatever, helped by a subtle chemical or laser beam. A 'hard' coup will see him (and several minions) die tragically in a plane or limo crash, or fall from an open window, or eat toxic cheeseburgers.

What is worse: a flagrantly treasonous POTUS, or a military coup removing him?

(Don't bring up Deep State. If such existed, he'd never have grabbed the Oval Office.)
He doesn't need any help. The guy is a walking heart attack waiting to happen. He's old, he doesn't exercise, he's obviously hot tempered and volatile, and he eats worse than I do, and I'm notorious for my bad diet. We don't need any CT to see him just die one day, and I seriously doubt anyone is going to try and off him in that way.

There isn't any Deep State...it's total bullshit. He got the Oval Office because he was able to manipulate ignorant people to vote for him on the promises of bringing good, high paying jobs with great benefits and low skills back to the US, to revive our coal industry which was being killed by liburalz (instead of the market), to get rid of dirty immigrants and illegals and make Mexico pay for the wall, to make China pay for stealing our jobs (instead of all the real stuff they did and do), to hammer North Korea and Iran and bend them to our will, etc etc. And people fell for it. No CT necessary.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:17 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017