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  #101  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:16 AM
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Yet.

They don't yet.

But if public sentiment keeps turning against Trump and /or Pence as this inquire deepens (as it's been doing), I can certainly see a "cut bait" mentality forming.
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  #102  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:29 AM
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When Obama was nominated for the Peace Prize doesn't really mean anything. The list of people eligible to nominate someone for the Peace Prize is very long, and all it takes is one partisan hack (yes, the Democrats have partisan hacks, too). Trump, also, has been nominated for the prize, and I expect that every US president since the awards began has been, too. If the nomination really was twelve days after the election, I'm surprised that it took that long.
  #103  
Old 10-11-2019, 09:46 AM
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...not gonna happen. Not even worth while theorizing about it. Pence doesn't just have to get impeached. He has to get removed. And while there is an ever-so-slim chance the Senate might remove Trump, they won't remove Pence. They wouldn't hand over the reigns to the Dems. Not gonna happen.
Probably not, but Pence isn't exactly a spring chicken. To play along with the OP, how about Trump is impeached and resigns, Pence is president but has a major medical issue and can't serve as president...before he's able to even take the reins of office or start thinking about appointing a VP? There would be a window there that Pelosi would be the rightful successor.

Myself, I'd say that at this late date (unless we are positing this for after an unlikely Trump win in 2020) she wouldn't do much more than ensure a stable transition and probably take steps to have some additional oversight on the election. Other than that, I'm not sure she would do much wrt rolling back current US policy. Seems like there isn't enough time to really do much about China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Turkey and the Kurds and the host of other international issues happening. Not even enough time to change directions on stuff like climate change or even really address much wrt internal US policy issues. This answer would be a lot difference if this was at the start of the next term, but at this point? She'd just be a lame duck waiting for her successor.

One question I'd have is...at this stage, could she run? I mean, she would sort of kind of be the incumbent. Could she run herself, even though she hasn't to this point? I'm actually not sure if the current candidates are locked in, or if she could just announce, sometime after she takes the reins, that she was going to run (this leaves aside whether she could actually get enough contributions to make a real go at it at this point).
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  #104  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:10 AM
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Probably not, but Pence isn't exactly a spring chicken. To play along with the OP, how about Trump is impeached and resigns, Pence is president but has a major medical issue and can't serve as president...before he's able to even take the reins of office or start thinking about appointing a VP? There would be a window there that Pelosi would be the rightful successor.
If the VP office is vacant, the President can appoint a new VP, who must be approved by a majority of both the House and the Senate. So that window is as long as Pelosi wants it to be. She doesn't even have to let it come up for a vote - see the McConnell precedent.
  #105  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:10 AM
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Yet.

They don't yet.

But if public sentiment keeps turning against Trump and /or Pence as this inquire deepens (as it's been doing), I can certainly see a "cut bait" mentality forming.
With Vice-President Pence too? That seems like a far-fetched fantasy.
  #106  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:46 PM
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I think there will come a moment when they will *wish* they could be shed of both Pence and Trump, but it's unimaginable to me the Senate would act to make Pelosi president.

I mean... they're not even excited about trading Trump for Pence, even in these dire circumstances. If you have any notion that these are principled patriots who are making sound political calculations, this is a good a time as any to let go of that.
  #107  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:52 PM
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With Vice-President Pence too? That seems like a far-fetched fantasy.
Back in 2017, you said,
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I have a hard time taking the "impeach Trump" cries seriously. It seems like more fevered leftist fantasies
I guess you're welcome to keep describing things as fantasies, but I'll share my grains of salt with anyone who needs 'em.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 10-11-2019 at 01:54 PM.
  #108  
Old 10-11-2019, 01:57 PM
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To believe that Pelosi will become president, you have to believe one of three things:


1) Republicans will suddenly have a change of heart and decide that it is in their, or the nation's, best interests for a (D) to be president. They will willingly then depose both Trump and Pence, thinking, "Pelosi is the POTUS that we need."


or


2) Republicans are so ignorant that they do not know how the Constitutional rules work, and they will not realize that deposing both Trump and Pence will lead to a President Pelosi. None of their staffers will warn them, nobody will tell them, they will be caught by complete surprise when Nancy takes up residence in the White House.


or


3) The popular voter outcry against both Trump and Pence will become so great, and the demand for President Pelosi so great, even among R voters themselves, that Senate Republicans will have no choice but to give the voters what they want and make Pelosi president.



Out of those three, 1# is no chance. There is no way Senate Republicans will believe that Pelosi will be a good president, and the person who ought to be president. 2# is no chance either - Senate Republicans know their Constitution as well as anyone else. 3# is also no chance - while independents and Democrats may cry out for President Pelosi, it would be electoral suicide for Senate Republicans to stab their GOP voter base and cave in by putting in a Democrat as president. The only non-Trump, non-Pence president that Republican voters could accept would be.............another Republican.
  #109  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:03 PM
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Out of those three, 1# is no chance. There is no way Senate Republicans will believe that Pelosi will be a good president, and the person who ought to be president. 2# is no chance either - Senate Republicans know their Constitution as well as anyone else. 3# is also no chance - while independents and Democrats may cry out for President Pelosi, it would be electoral suicide for Senate Republicans to stab their GOP voter base and cave in by putting in a Democrat as president. The only non-Trump, non-Pence president that Republican voters could accept would be.............another Republican.
The interesting question becomes, what if Pence is unambiguously shown to have committed criminal activities involving helping other nations undermine our democracy? If polls show that a clear majority--let's make it 60% or greater--of Americans consider Pence to be criminally liable and unfit for the presidency?

This is not remotely the state of affairs right now, but i'ts looking less and less implausible day by day. It's a question worth considering.

What do Senate Republicans do?

I could actually see Pelosi meeting with Senate Republicans to negotiate some sort of compromise for extraordinary times, to prevent a known criminal from taking the White House (and presumably pardoning all his compatriots). One compromise could involve stepping down temporarily as speaker and allowing a very moderate Republican to assume the office just long enough to gain the White House, under the agreement that they wouldn't run for re-election. That would involve a tremendous amount of trust, though. Pelosi might insist on a Republican with no demonstrated ambition or charisma.

It's pretty unlikely, but in the semilikely possibility of a Trump removal and a known-criminal Pence, I don't know what the hell would happen.

I agree that Senate Republicans would likely prefer a criminal Pence to Pelosi, because they suck ass.
  #110  
Old 10-11-2019, 02:49 PM
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Sure, if Trump and Pence both look so criminal that they have to go, Republicans would probably be happy to accept this deal with Pelosi, whereby some untainted Republican becomes temporary president until inauguration in January 2021.

But there is no way they would let Pelosi herself become president. That would destroy GOP turnout in November and they'd lose even worse. It would be electoral suicide.
  #111  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:32 PM
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Sure, if Trump and Pence both look so criminal that they have to go, Republicans would probably be happy to accept this deal with Pelosi, whereby some untainted Republican becomes temporary president until inauguration in January 2021.
I believe... and this is just my fantasy liberal fever dream... that Republicans in both the house and Senate already know they have a lot of exposure to criminal charges. Some are directly because of Trump, some are due to compromised by lobbyists like the NRA, some are running their own scams.

We know that housecats bury their own waste for hygeinic reasons, but cats don't understand germ theory, they just have this compulsion to bury their feces. I think Republicans also are like this. They have little concept of their own contamination, but they do know they need to hide all their shit.

That's why they will choose to go down with this pirate ship.

Last edited by HMS Irruncible; 10-11-2019 at 03:33 PM.
  #112  
Old 10-11-2019, 03:47 PM
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To answer OP's question: she should conduct it from her bed, obviously, since that's where she'll be having these dreams.

Last edited by Northeast Refugee; 10-11-2019 at 03:49 PM.
  #113  
Old 10-11-2019, 11:06 PM
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Pelosi could pressure President Pence into resigning just by demanding a private meeting with him. He'll flee the White House out of fear of being struck by lightning.
  #114  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:48 AM
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Myself, I'd say that at this late date (unless we are positing this for after an unlikely Trump win in 2020) she wouldn't do much more than ensure a stable transition and probably take steps to have some additional oversight on the election. Other than that, I'm not sure she would do much wrt rolling back current US policy. Seems like there isn't enough time to really do much about China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, Turkey and the Kurds and the host of other international issues happening. Not even enough time to change directions on stuff like climate change or even really address much wrt internal US policy issues. This answer would be a lot difference if this was at the start of the next term, but at this point? She'd just be a lame duck waiting for her successor.
I agree she wouldn't be able to really tackle the big issues by Jan 2021. But she would be able to 'change directions' in a big way by stopping the bulldozing of national parks (or anything else) to build the wall. It was found to be an illegal violation of the separation of powers anyway. She could take steps to remedy the migrant concentration camp situation. If we need to pull back militarily for financial reasons, maybe pull 1000 troops from Germany instead of a few dozen who are the tripwire preventing a Turkish quasi-genocide against our allies as if the agenda is to repeal Death Before Dishonor? She could take a less antagonistic line against Iran pretty quickly FWIW. It would be nice if the POTUS delivered sober, meaningful speeches that at least account for the conclusions of the intelligence community on the most pressing issues facing the nation. These are just examples, point being she could do some stuff. Should? Harder question.
  #115  
Old 10-12-2019, 01:50 AM
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Yet.

They don't yet.

But if public sentiment keeps turning against Trump and /or Pence as this inquire deepens (as it's been doing), I can certainly see a "cut bait" mentality forming.
Trump didn't and won't have the votes to provide funding for his wall. So he illegally appropriated the funds anyway. Because that's how the GOP rolls, like thugs.
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