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  #201  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:36 AM
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No. It would be, well then if you are going to be protecting those who wish to see our country divided then I feel we have to rethink our whole alliance.

Goodbye to the secure southern flank of NATO, Russians are able to threaten the entire eastern Mediterranean.

The proper thing is to ask
1. Is there anyway that the Kurds can be supported without antagonising Turkey?
2. If the answer to 2 is “No”, then do the Kurds offer anything that would balance out the loss of Turkey as a partner?

That seems to have been done and the answer to both questions is of course “Hell no”.
The whole point of an ally is that you don't abandon them the moment that they are not useful. If you do that, then you don't get allies in the future, and you cannot trust allies not to stab you in the back the moment it becomes in their interest.

The same analysis can be said for any other country that is threatened. If Lithuania cannot be supported without antagonizing Russia, do we abandon them unless they can come up with something that would balance it out?

Trump got played. He is extremely weak at negotiation, and folds at the slightest bit of push back. We really do have the upper hand in such negotiations. Turkey really does need us more than we need them. It is not an equal situation at all, and we come to the bargaining table with pretty much all the chips, and we yet managed to walk away busted out. Turkey has always had as its analysis: "Can we commit genocide against the Kurds without antagonizing the US?", and there was no reason for any follow up to that if the answer was no, and until Trump's betrayal, that has been a firm "Hell No!"

Best case scenario is that he betrayed our allies because he was feckless at standing up to a dictator, but it is likely that his personal financial stake in Turkey also played a significant role in his decision to allow the slaughter of those who stood beside us up until just a few days ago.

Now that Trump has answered the question as to whether or not we approve of genocide from "Hell No!" to "Sure, as long as we get a cut of the proceeds.", obviously Turkey's analysis of the situation has changed, and they will proceed with the extermination of those that risked their lives for us.
  #202  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:44 AM
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Trump:
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Originally Posted by Donald Trump
The Kurds and Turkey have been fighting for many years. Turkey considers the PKK the worst terrorists of all. Others may want to come in and fight for one side or the other. Let them!
...
We have become a far greater Economic Power than ever before, and we are using that power for WORLD PEACE!
  #203  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:10 PM
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Because we already interfered. And then, after interfering, pulled them out, essentially taking the side of the oppressors.

Why do you ask questions where the answers are obvious?
We already interfered in the Turkey/Kurd civil war? I thought we were in Syria to stop ISIS, not the Turks.
  #204  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:24 PM
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We already interfered in the Turkey/Kurd civil war? I thought we were in Syria to stop ISIS, not the Turks.
Chuck Todd, NBC News:
Quote:
Former Defense Secretary Gen. James Mattis talked to me about the withdrawal of U.S. troops from northern Syria.

“ISIS will resurge. It's absolutely a given that they will come back."
  #205  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:36 PM
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We already interfered in the Turkey/Kurd civil war? I thought we were in Syria to stop ISIS, not the Turks.
And we stopped ISIS with the extensive help of the Kurds. We did not interfere with Turkey's barbaric treatment of the Kurds within its own borders, but our presence did prevent Turkey from invading and killing the Kurds in Syria. That was interfering with their plans for genocide.

Turkey complained to Trump that we interfering with their plans for ethnic cleansing, and Trump got out of the way.
  #206  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:43 PM
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Chuck Todd, NBC News:
Former Defense Secretary Gen. James Mattis can become Turkish Secretary General and fight ISIS.
  #207  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:48 PM
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We already interfered in the Turkey/Kurd civil war? I thought we were in Syria to stop ISIS, not the Turks.
Are you saying that a nation's actions must be strictly transactional? That there can be no quid without the quo*?

Is there no role for supporting a 'cause' (including military support) if the cause is entirely consistent with basic ideas of self-determination and with, you know, 'liberty'?

Are you advocating that US no longer champion freedom beyond its borders? Or are you saying it's only to be done when it seems to be in the US's own direct interests?

Some disparage the notion of the US being the "world's policeman" and although I think I understand where that sentiment comes from, it's not as if the US only gets the 'moral high ground' as its reward. There's also economic, military, and strategic advantages (e.g. the rise of a generally peaceful, unified Europe since WWII), not to mention the benefit there must be to any nation that is a role model for the world.

(* there is definitely no pro in the WH)
  #208  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:48 PM
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Former Defense Secretary Gen. James Mattis can become Turkish Secretary General and fight ISIS.
Looks like your argument in defense of Trump's decision has run its course.
  #209  
Old 10-13-2019, 12:59 PM
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11,000 Kurds died fighting ISIS

12 Americans died.

Magiver's comments are just ahistoric. The fact that he calls an invasion a "civil war" also goes to the worth of the arguments being presented.
  #210  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:04 PM
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And we stopped ISIS with the extensive help of the Kurds. We did not interfere with Turkey's barbaric treatment of the Kurds within its own borders, but our presence did prevent Turkey from invading and killing the Kurds in Syria. That was interfering with their plans for genocide.
I wasn't aware they killed off the kurds in Turkey. I thought there was a civil war involving Kurds wanting to start a new country.

Could it be we were acting as a shelter in Syria for Kurdish insurgents attacking Turkey and that by doing so were taking sides in the civil war?

Here's a thought, let the UN and it's troops deal with it and remove the United States as the World's Policeman.
  #211  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:05 PM
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NBC is reporting that the Kurds have invited Syrian forces to come into the disputed territory. This lines up Russia against Turkey. Neat-o. This is going smashingly.
  #212  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:14 PM
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11,000 Kurds died fighting ISIS.
And if we hadn't gotten involved that number would have been a lot higher as ISIS was trying to create a brutal caliphate.

So don't act like they were doing us a favor. We were supporting them, not the other way around.
  #213  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:15 PM
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NBC is reporting that the Kurds have invited Syrian forces to come into the disputed territory. This lines up Russia against Turkey. Neat-o. This is going smashingly.
Trump's birthday gift to Putin just keeps on giving.
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  #214  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:15 PM
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And if we hadn't gotten involved that number would have been a lot higher as ISIS was trying to create a brutal caliphate.

So don't act like they were doing us a favor. We were supporting them, not the other way around.
To my original point.
  #215  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:19 PM
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Anyway, in the real world, the ISIS camps the Kurds maintained (which, as well as preventing Turkey in genociding our allies, required our continued presence), are now falling. I am framing this as the "GOP's Pro-ISIS Genocide of Kurdish Christians" when I call my Senators and Reps.

"An SDF commander has confirmed to me that the Ain Issa camp has fallen and all the detainees (a population of thousands that includes ISIS supporters, ISIS relatives and civilians) have fled. “An unbelievable mess,” the commander said."

https://t.co/yDehTSKkux

Last edited by JohnT; 10-13-2019 at 01:22 PM.
  #216  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:27 PM
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NBC is reporting that the Kurds have invited Syrian forces to come into the disputed territory. This lines up Russia against Turkey. Neat-o. This is going smashingly.
What disputed territory? Ras al-Ayn is in Syria.
  #217  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:29 PM
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To my original point.
Spell it out. Was your original point that we were backing the Kurds for an independent nation from Turkey? Because that never happened.
  #218  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:29 PM
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Will today mark the rebirth of ISIS? AP report : Islamic State supporters escape in Syria as US pulls back
  #219  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:30 PM
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NBC is reporting that the Kurds have invited Syrian forces to come into the disputed territory. This lines up Russia against Turkey. Neat-o. This is going smashingly.
That's not exactly new. Turkey and Russia have been working at cross-purposes in Syria for years. You may recall that Turkey shot down a Russian jet four years ago. That was a whole lot more serious than Kurds inviting some Syrians into some of the territory they control.
  #220  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:34 PM
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Anyway, in the real world, the ISIS camps the Kurds maintained (which, as well as preventing Turkey in genociding our allies, required our continued presence), are now falling. I am framing this as the "GOP's Pro-ISIS Genocide of Kurdish Christians" when I call my Senators and Reps.

"An SDF commander has confirmed to me that the Ain Issa camp has fallen and all the detainees (a population of thousands that includes ISIS supporters, ISIS relatives and civilians) have fled. “An unbelievable mess,” the commander said."

https://t.co/yDehTSKkux
Turn the prisoners over to Turkey or Syria. The Kurds in Syria are not an independent nation and should not be responsible for this. We've created a prison state within a country instead of completing yet another World Police action.

What is the purpose of a United Nations group if they can't be brought in to deal with ISIS.
  #221  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:36 PM
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It's weird how two different people could have such opposing viewpoints. For example, one person, Barack Obama had the viewpoint that Osama bin Laden, terrorist, should be killed. And he was. Another person, Donald Trump, has the viewpoint that ISIS, terrorists, should be watered like a thirsty plant, and they are. Weird.
  #222  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:37 PM
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Didn’t we all know that if Trump was going to wave a flag, it was going to be white one?

I just didn’t expect it in this context.
  #223  
Old 10-13-2019, 01:37 PM
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... Another person, Donald Trump, has the viewpoint that ISIS, terrorists, should be watered like a thirsty plant, and they are. Weird.
That's a weird way to describe waterboarding.
  #224  
Old 10-13-2019, 02:13 PM
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I wasn't aware they killed off the kurds in Turkey. I thought there was a civil war involving Kurds wanting to start a new country.
I wasn't aware that I said that they killed off the Kurds in Turkey.

I said that they treated them brutally. They have killed them, there have been massacres. There have been forced relocations. They have intentionally prevented food from coming into the region to deliberately starve them out.
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Could it be we were acting as a shelter in Syria for Kurdish insurgents attacking Turkey and that by doing so were taking sides in the civil war?
That was pretty much exactly what the dictator in charge of oppressing the Kurds in his country claimed. Our intel said otherwise. Trump decided to side with the dictator.

What was actually going on, it seems, is that we were acting as a shelter for civilian Kurds to live in relative peace, and for their military to be effective against fighting our enemies. We also provided shelter to those who were detaining our enemies, who right as we talk on this board, as escaping and going back to killing us and our allies.
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Here's a thought, let the UN and it's troops deal with it and remove the United States as the World's Policeman.
Well, I don't disagree with he idea that we shouldn't be unilaterally the world's policeman. But you seem to be saying that we should withdraw from the UN and let them deal with it without us.
  #225  
Old 10-13-2019, 02:51 PM
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I don't think the situation vis a vis the Kurds and Turkey is all that dissimilar from Israel and the Palestinians, at least in terms of a struggling population of stateless people being treated with extreme disfavor from their neighboring nation state.
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  #226  
Old 10-13-2019, 03:11 PM
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I don't think the situation vis a vis the Kurds and Turkey is all that dissimilar from Israel and the Palestinians, at least in terms of a struggling population of stateless people being treated with extreme disfavor from their neighboring nation state.
Our relation to them is pretty radically different. We have not spent the last few years fighting alongside the palestinians to defeat a radical Islamic terrorist organization.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-13-2019 at 03:12 PM.
  #227  
Old 10-13-2019, 03:15 PM
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I wasn't aware that I said that they killed off the Kurds in Turkey.
Are you aware you used the word genocide?

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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
That was pretty much exactly what the dictator in charge of oppressing the Kurds in his country claimed. Our intel said otherwise. Trump decided to side with the dictator.
I'm not aware of Trump sending in troops backing Turkey.

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Well, I don't disagree with he idea that we shouldn't be unilaterally the world's policeman. [But you seem to be saying that we should withdraw from the UN and let them deal with it without us.
Explain how letting the UN deal with it leaves us out of the loop? It IS the loop.
  #228  
Old 10-13-2019, 04:23 PM
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Are you aware you used the word genocide?
Yes, are you aware of what context I used it in? Did I use it in the context of the Kurds inside of Turkey? No, I did not. Are you aware that genocide doesn't mean that you have killed off everyone, but that you are intentionally destroying a people in whole or in part?

Do you consider the treatment that the Kurds get in Turkey to be fair and equitable?

Side note, before we get bogged down on semantics, would you say that Nazi Germany had plans for genocide against the Jews, even though they were not able to kill all of them?
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I'm not aware of Trump sending in troops backing Turkey.
Are you aware of the intel that we shared with them, outlining the exact positions of Kurdish forces?

Are you aware that we convinced the Kurds to dismantle their fortifications that were specifically to deter Turkey from invading, and right after they finished doing so, at our request, we abandoned them?

We did more than just stop being there for an ally in their time of need, we actively betrayed them.
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Explain how letting the UN deal with it leaves us out of the loop? It IS the loop.
You were the one saying that we shouldn't be involved. Are you changing your mind now?
  #229  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:23 PM
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Yes, are you aware of what context I used it in? Did I use it in the context of the Kurds inside of Turkey? No, I did not. Are you aware that genocide doesn't mean that you have killed off everyone, but that you are intentionally destroying a people in whole or in part?
the term is used to convey an attempt to kill a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.

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Do you consider the treatment that the Kurds get in Turkey to be fair and equitable?
do you consider the treatment of Turks get at the hands of the Kurds to be be fair and equitable? It's a civil war not a genocide.

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Side note, before we get bogged down on semantics, would you say that Nazi Germany had plans for genocide against the Jews, even though they were not able to kill all of them?
Seriously? They were systematically rounding them up and killing them.

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Are you aware of the intel that we shared with them, outlining the exact positions of Kurdish forces?

Are you aware that we convinced the Kurds to dismantle their fortifications that were specifically to deter Turkey from invading, and right after they finished doing so, at our request, we abandoned them?

We did more than just stop being there for an ally in their time of need, we actively betrayed them.
who exactly is "them". Are you referring to the SDF who is actively attacking our NATO ally?

If you support a Kurdistan state then make your case. But as long as the Kurds want a separate state it's a civil war and it's against a NATO ally. We were supporting the Kurds with our military presence. I personally would like to stay out of it.
  #230  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:35 PM
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the term is used to convey an attempt to kill a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
Which is what they are currently doing with the Kurds in Syria.
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do you consider the treatment of Turks get at the hands of the Kurds to be be fair and equitable? It's a civil war not a genocide.
The Kurds are the ones that are being oppressed in this situation, so there are no Kurdish hands treating the people of Turks in any way shape or form.
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Seriously? They were systematically rounding them up and killing them.
That's actually not an answer. Do you consider that to be genocide? I'm just asking so that we have some sort of baseline of definitions to operate under. Does the fact that there are still Jews mean that the Nazi's did not commit genocide?
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who exactly is "them". Are you referring to the SDF who is actively attacking our NATO ally?
I mean the peope that, prior to a few days ago, were our allies.
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If you support a Kurdistan state then make your case. But as long as the Kurds want a separate state it's a civil war and it's against a NATO ally. We were supporting the Kurds with our military presence. I personally would like to stay out of it.
The Kurds don't want a separate state within Turkey, they want it in Syria and/or Iraq. We were not supporting the Kurds in Turkey with our military, we sere supporting the Kurds in Syria. We were out of it. This has nothing to do with Turkey, other than Turkey wanting to come over their borders into another country's sovereign territory, in which we and the Kurds were in the way. We got out of the way, leaving the Kurds to be killed.

If you have paid any attention whatsoever of the atrocities that have been done to the Kurds, then you would understand why they would be trying to find a place they could call home.

I assume that by your statements, you are also against the US support for Israel, as all of your concerns about backing the Kurds apply many fold over to the situation with us supporting the existence of that country as a home to a historically oppressed ethnic group.
  #231  
Old 10-13-2019, 05:38 PM
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Last edited by KarlGauss; 10-13-2019 at 05:39 PM.
  #232  
Old 10-13-2019, 06:07 PM
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Explain how letting the UN deal with it leaves us out of the loop? It IS the loop.
You mean the UN that we’re not paying our dues for?

Like, we roll into a restaurant and tell them that we are only going to pay 80% of the cost of the meal, but they need to wash and detail our car because it’s just so dirty? You think that’s how things work in the real world?
  #233  
Old 10-13-2019, 06:52 PM
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Which is what they are currently doing with the Kurds in Syria.
Again, define who you're referring to. There are plenty of Kurds to go after in Turkey. Why are they specifically going after the town of Ras Al-Ain?

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The Kurds don't want a separate state within Turkey, they want it in Syria and/or Iraq.
I'm not sure where you're getting this from. You can google" Kurdistan map" to better understand this. Pick any map that comes up. It covers Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. the vast majority of it is in Turkey.

Look at the logic of it. If the Kurds just wanted part of Syria then there wouldn't be a problem in Turkey. The kurdish political power varies from country to country. They have an autonomous relationship with Iraq that goes back to 1970 and was protected by the Northern no-fly zone in connection with the Gulf War. It was a multi-nation effort.

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I assume that by your statements, you are also against the US support for Israel, as all of your concerns about backing the Kurds apply many fold over to the situation with us supporting the existence of that country as a home to a historically oppressed ethnic group.
You would assume wrong. Israel is an established country and is not related to this situation.

Last edited by Magiver; 10-13-2019 at 06:53 PM.
  #234  
Old 10-13-2019, 07:15 PM
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You mean the UN that we’re not paying our dues for?

Like, we roll into a restaurant and tell them that we are only going to pay 80% of the cost of the meal, but they need to wash and detail our car because it’s just so dirty? You think that’s how things work in the real world?
Yes, that UN. Deduct what we spent on ISIS from the bill. they probably owe us money.
  #235  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:47 PM
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NBC is reporting that the Kurds have invited Syrian forces to come into the disputed territory. This lines up Russia against Turkey. Neat-o. This is going smashingly.
I'm curious to see if Turkey will stop their attack. Would they risk a war with Syria and its ally Russia?

Eventually the Kurds had to work out a deal with Assad. I wish they had done it before the attack when they had a stronger bargaining position.
  #236  
Old 10-13-2019, 09:54 PM
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tel...territory/amp/

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While the formal details of the agreement were not announced, Syrian regime forces appeared poised to enter many of the key Kurdish-held cities along the Turkish-Syrian border, including Kobani, Manbij and Qamishli. Many of the areas hold vast symbolic importance for the Kurds, who have lost 11,000 men fighting against the Islamic State (Isil) in the last five years to free those cities from jihadist rule.

  #237  
Old 10-13-2019, 10:44 PM
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Yes, that UN. Deduct what we spent on ISIS from the bill. they probably owe us money.
We owe them $2.6 billion for... wait for it... peacekeeping missions.
  #238  
Old 10-13-2019, 11:51 PM
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You mean the UN that we’re not paying our dues for?

Like, we roll into a restaurant and tell them that we are only going to pay 80% of the cost of the meal, but they need to wash and detail our car because it’s just so dirty? You think that’s how things work in the real world?
When your meal provides 22% of the restaurant's revenue, you might well be able to demand a discount, and a free car wash, and a footrub.
  #239  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:14 AM
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Again, define who you're referring to. There are plenty of Kurds to go after in Turkey. Why are they specifically going after the town of Ras Al-Ain?
I have repeatedly defined who I am referring to: the Kurds in Syria that we fought alongside against ISIS. Why are they going after Ras Al-Ain, you ask? Because they are grabbing territory that we no longer defend. Why wouldn't they? It's free land for the taking.

You keep bringing up the Kurds in Turkey, maybe that is how you keep confusing yourself as to what this is about. The Kurds in Turkey are not part of this discussion, they are already under the oppressive rule of Turkish forces. It is Turkey extending their reach over Kurds in Syria due to our betrayal that this thread is about.
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I'm not sure where you're getting this from. You can google" Kurdistan map" to better understand this. Pick any map that comes up. It covers Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. the vast majority of it is in Turkey.
Yes, that is the territory that they have both historically and contemporaneously occupied as an ethnic group. That is not necessarily the territory that they would be happy to settle for if they could call it their own.

Borders were drawn across them. They didn't cross borders.

Where would you suggest the Kurdish people go?
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Look at the logic of it. If the Kurds just wanted part of Syria then there wouldn't be a problem in Turkey. The kurdish political power varies from country to country. They have an autonomous relationship with Iraq that goes back to 1970 and was protected by the Northern no-fly zone in connection with the Gulf War. It was a multi-nation effort.
The problem in Turkey is they have committed a number of atrocities against the Kurdish population that has resided there for much much longer than Turkey was a country. There are occasional uprisings, especially when Turkey blocks food or other necessities from entering their regions.


BTW, not that Iraq has anything to do with this at the moment, but their "autonomous relationship" involved systematic extermination campaigns against them, including the use of chemical weapons. It was not until the US led coalition enforced the no-fly zone that the Kurds in northern Iraq were protected from Iraqi forces. There was talk of that time of creating a Kurdish state in Iraq, but Turkey at that time was against it, as then they would have a sovereign Kurdish state on their border.
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You would assume wrong. Israel is an established country and is not related to this situation.
So, if the European powers had followed through on their deal after WWI and carved out Kurdistan for them at that time, you would be in support of their established country now?
  #240  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:19 AM
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When your meal provides 22% of the restaurant's revenue, you might well be able to demand a discount, and a free car wash, and a footrub.
Well, you get what you pay for.

When your party takes up most of the restaurant's tables, and you have already gotten a car wash, foot rub, and a pretty pink princess pony, demanding a discount and stiffing the bill seems a mite bit entitled to me.
  #241  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:28 AM
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Yes, that UN. Deduct what we spent on ISIS from the bill. they probably owe us money.
Which country do you think will send troops to fight ISIS, especially now the US has stabbed our allies in the back? Are you aware that the UN has no troops of its own?

I know how UN military actions work - I lived in the middle of one when I was a kid. No UN troops - Canadian, Nigerian, Ethipian, Indian and Irish troops, all wearing UN insignia.
  #242  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:53 AM
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Well, you get what you pay for.

When your party takes up most of the restaurant's tables, and you have already gotten a car wash, foot rub, and a pretty pink princess pony, demanding a discount and stiffing the bill seems a mite bit entitled to me.
*shrug* I'd encourage the UN to find better customers if they feel similarly to you.
  #243  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:54 AM
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Which country do you think will send troops to fight ISIS, especially now the US has stabbed our allies in the back? Are you aware that the UN has no troops of its own?

I know how UN military actions work - I lived in the middle of one when I was a kid. No UN troops - Canadian, Nigerian, Ethipian, Indian and Irish troops, all wearing UN insignia.
Just curious, which UN military action was that? Was it one of the ones where they did nothing while civilians were massacred?
  #244  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:36 AM
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When your meal provides 22% of the restaurant's revenue, you might well be able to demand a discount, and a free car wash, and a footrub.
...when you happily eat that restaurant meal and the meal of the table next door and drink a substantial amount of booze, then tell the waiter "yeah, I'll pay the bill and give you a hefty tip" one would expect that you would honour your commitments and pay the bill.

But when you get to the cashier and tell the cashier "Fuck you, I'm not paying until you give me a discount, and a free car wash, and a footrub" don't be surprised if the cashier says to you "No, fuck you, if you aren't going to pay what you owe then you can go out the back and wash the dishes."

If you then proceeded to not only refuse to pay the money you owe the restaurant or wash the dishes but then pulled out a baseball bat and demolished all the glassware and crockery before pummelling the cashier to death in a fit of irrational anger and rage, then still insisted on a discount, and a free car wash, and a footrub, one might start to think that maybe you aren't the kind of person that can be trusted.
  #245  
Old 10-14-2019, 03:33 AM
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Honestly, while I have absolutely no love for the Assad regime - and even less for its allies - I can't blame the Kurds one whit. America won't help them, my country can't, so they have to do whatever they can to survive.
  #246  
Old 10-14-2019, 04:56 AM
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The American pull out from Syria was inevitable. Bernie has certainly been very critical of our involvement. I can't see Warren keeping troops there either. Trump ran in 2016 saying he'd get the troops out.

I wish the pull out would have been handled more competently. Certainly we should have insisted on giving the safe zones created in August more time to work.

Politically there just isn't any desire to keep troops in that region.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bern...ry?id=66217140
Quote:
you have a president who gets off the phone with [President Recep Tayyip] Erdogan of Turkey and then sends out a tweet that says, 'Oh, by the way, we're deserting [Syrian Kurds] who have put their lives on the line to work with us in fighting against some of the worst terrorists in the world," Sanders said on "This Week."

But when asked by Karl whether Trump's rationale for pulling the military out of the Syria -- at one point this week saying that the U.S. is "not a police force" -- "sounded a little bit like Bernie Sanders," the Vermont senator was quick to refute the point.
"But the difference between Trump and me is he lies," Sanders said. "I don't."

Last edited by aceplace57; 10-14-2019 at 05:00 AM.
  #247  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:27 AM
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The Kurds General has the first name "Mazloum".
You cannot make this up.
  #248  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:41 AM
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*shrug* I'd encourage the UN to find better customers if they feel similarly to you.
And now, these isolationist UN talking points have turned the corner from “The UN should handle the fallout from the Trump Surrender” to “The UN should not do business with the US.”

This, ladies and gentlemen, is MAGA in a nutshell. Just say whatever comes to mind, doesn’t matter if there’s any consistency, strategy, or deeper thoughtf involved.
  #249  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:01 AM
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*shrug* I'd encourage the UN to find better customers if they feel similarly to you.
I mean, that is what the world is doing right now. We have gone from the leader of the free world to a deadbeat that turns on its allies in only a very few short years.

China is finding better customers, Europe is finding better customers, even most of Africa finds that dealing with China is better to trade with. The whole world is finding that we are not necessary, and other than our massive military, which is now for sale to the highest bidder, are irrelevant to the world stage.

I don't understand the mentality behind people who are proud of getting kicked out of a restaurant for being an ass. "Oh, what!? You don't like that I took a shit in the middle of the dining room? Well, if you feel that way, I encourage you to find better customers."
  #250  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:06 AM
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Just curious, which UN military action was that? Was it one of the ones where they did nothing while civilians were massacred?
I'm curious as to what one you are thinking of here. Do you have a specific instance in mind, or is this just a general smear and insinuation?

Do you object when a power stands by and allows civilians to be massacred? If so, do you have the same objection to when a power betrays its allies and steps to the side to allow civilians to be massacred, or is that different?
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