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  #251  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:10 AM
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This GOP-sanctioned Genocide of Christians will continue as long as Donald Trump is President. Plain, pure, and simple.

Sanctions? Lol! Dollar diplomacy is dead, the world is too rich for the USA to buy them off any more, and too interconnected to make sanctions nothing more than an modified step in the supply chain.

Trump started this genocide of Christians, and he will allow it to continue as long as he remains President.
  #252  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:14 AM
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The Kurds General has the first name "Mazloum".
You cannot make this up.
Forgetting for a minute that that is an adopted name, not his given name(and therefore, is in fact, made up), Mazloum is not an uncommon name in the region. Are you just making fun of funny foreign names here, or are you trying to make a point of some kind?
  #253  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:25 AM
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The Kurds General has the first name "Mazloum".
You cannot make this up.
Even better, I can list a dozen Christians I've met with the first name Christian, Christopher, Christina, and variations on the theme.

You cannot make that shit up either.
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  #254  
Old 10-14-2019, 09:33 AM
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Even Christ's name was "Christ"!
  #255  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:04 AM
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Forgetting for a minute that that is an adopted name, not his given name(and therefore, is in fact, made up), Mazloum is not an uncommon name in the region. Are you just making fun of funny foreign names here, or are you trying to make a point of some kind?
You just made the point for me.
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Even better, I can list a dozen Christians I've met with the first name Christian, Christopher, Christina, and variations on the theme.

You cannot make that shit up either.
Dear God in heaven these guys are priceless.
  #256  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:08 AM
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You just made the point for me.


Dear God in heaven these guys are priceless.
So, just making fun of funny sounding foreign names then. Got it.
  #257  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:39 AM
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Foreign policy disasters happen - that's not the shocking part. The truly horrific aspect to this situation is the ease with which Trump was influenced.

One call, that's all.
  #258  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:43 AM
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So, just making fun of funny sounding foreign names then. Got it.
Before you pointed out the similarity to "Muslim," I had no clue what AK84 was even getting at.
  #259  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:05 AM
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ABC News just got busted pretending gun range footage was an attack on Kurdish civilians: https://mobile.twitter.com/PolishPat...95628288827392

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-14-2019 at 11:06 AM.
  #260  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:27 AM
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Thanks for keeping the focus on important news. The source of some b-roll is far more important than anyone’s life.
  #261  
Old 10-14-2019, 11:29 AM
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Thanks for keeping the focus on important news. The source of some b-roll is far more important than anyone’s life.
Perhaps you don't consider dishonesty in the media important. I hope that's not an opinion that is widely shared.
  #262  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:02 PM
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This GOP-sanctioned Genocide of Christians

Trump started this genocide of Christians,
I'm seeing some misinformation( IMHO )or at least questionable notions in this thread generally and mostly I have been manfully resisting my natural tendency to be a pedantic schoolmarm. But where exactly does this stem from? The Kurds are overwhelmingly not Christian.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 10-14-2019 at 12:06 PM.
  #263  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:14 PM
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I'm seeing some misinformation( IMHO )or at least questionable notions in this thread generally and mostly I have been manfully resisting my natural tendency to be a pedantic schoolmarm. But where exactly does this stem from? The Kurds are overwhelmingly not Christian.
Maybe it's a reference to Syrian Christians who are under attack from Turkey, now.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/mi...ack-first-time

Not Kurds, but still affected by Trump's decision.
  #264  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:33 PM
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Perhaps you don't consider dishonesty in the media important. I hope that's not an opinion that is widely shared.
Exactly! It's like those concentration camp reels that migrated from TV's History Channel to YouTube. You know, the ones where the narrator's talking about Auschwitz while they show stock footage of Bergen-Belsen on the screen. Dishonesty in the media!


Last edited by KarlGauss; 10-14-2019 at 12:38 PM.
  #265  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:44 PM
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Perhaps you don't consider dishonesty in the media important. I hope that's not an opinion that is widely shared.
I trust ABC more than I trust PolishPatriotTM's Twitter feed.
  #266  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:46 PM
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Maybe it's a reference to Syrian Christians who are under attack from Turkey, now.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/mi...ack-first-time

Not Kurds, but still affected by Trump's decision.
Ah, okay. They aren't the targets of Turkey and aren't really allies of the local Kurdish authority, but they certainly can feel threatened as bystanders caught in the middle. And I'd definitely be worried about some elements of the FSA if I were them.

But Turkey is going to be under some political pressure to prevent any genocide of local Christians. Not to say it can't or won't happen - stuff like Sabra and Shatila happen when you make the mistake of getting ideological militias involved in wars. But I wouldn't assume it is a foregone conclusion.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 10-14-2019 at 12:50 PM.
  #267  
Old 10-14-2019, 12:53 PM
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I trust ABC more than I trust PolishPatriotTM's Twitter feed.
You don't trust a source that features MAGA wings?

Last edited by KarlGauss; 10-14-2019 at 12:54 PM.
  #268  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:09 PM
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Perhaps you don't consider dishonesty in the media important. I hope that's not an opinion that is widely shared.
It's not. But the implication, in the context of this thread, is "see, the media's making it all up, nothing to see here."

I hope that's not what you mean. But this thread is about the tragedy in Kurdistan and our role in it, and your post doesn't say jack shit about that.
  #269  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:10 PM
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It's not. But the implication, in the context of this thread, is "see, the media's making it all up, nothing to see here."

I hope that's not what you mean. But this thread is about the tragedy in Kurdistan and our role in it, and your post doesn't say jack shit about that.
I don't think the media is making "it all" up, but it's very obvious ABC News made up this particular attack.
  #270  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:15 PM
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Maybe ABC just got confused and showed footage from the Bowling Green Massacre.
  #271  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:18 PM
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So, just making fun of funny sounding foreign names then. Got it.
It’s neither funny sounding nor foreign....I guess monolingual minds are not really going to get it.


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Before you pointed out the similarity to "Muslim," I had no clue what AK84 was even getting at.
You still have no clue, I assure you.
  #272  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:43 PM
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[maẓlūm] apparently means:

oppressed
tyrannized
wronged
treated unfairly
treated unjustly

It's hilarious once you get it.

I guess he may have acquired the nickname because he was oppressed, tyrannized, wronged, treated unfairly or treated unjustly.
  #273  
Old 10-14-2019, 01:56 PM
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"I once met a guy who everyone called Fatty. The funny thing was, though, he was really fat! I couldn't stop laughing!"
  #274  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:02 PM
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A General is oppressed?
  #275  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:09 PM
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A General is oppressed?
From his Wikipedia page:
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Ferhat Abdi Şahin, better known by his noms de guerre Mazlum Abdi, Şahin Cilo, and Mazlum Kobanê, is a Syrian Kurdish military leader, serving as the commander-in-chief of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF).

Abdi first served with the Kurdistan Workers' Party within Syria and was detained several times by the Syrian authorities. He later left Syria and went to Europe where he was engaged in political work, later travelling to Iraq where he was involved in military work.
Sounds like he was oppressed before becoming a military general.
  #276  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:14 PM
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I don't think the media is making "it all" up, but it's very obvious ABC News made up this particular attack.
How so? Are you saying that this video is their only evidence of the attack? And if so, how do you know that?
  #277  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:21 PM
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How so? Are you saying that this video is their only evidence of the attack? And if so, how do you know that?
The attack may have been real, but the footage may have been completely unrelated. You can't show a news segment saying, "Fire blazes in Chicago downtown district" and then cut to a TV clip of a fire in a warehouse in Kansas.
  #278  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:38 PM
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How so? Are you saying that this video is their only evidence of the attack? And if so, how do you know that?
I'm saying the video doesn't show the attack like they claim it does. In a word, they're misrepresenting events. It's certainly possible that the Syrian border town (I don't even want to begin to guess at how it's supposed to be spelled) actually was attacked (I don't know, I wasn't there, and I certainly wouldn't take ABC News' word for it now), but they don't present any evidence to support that assertion other than this video, which they say they "obtained". I'm purposely trying to avoid accusing them of "lying" because I'm not sure if they did it deliberately or if they were duped and have insufficient processes in place to verify footage they're provided. Either way though, they can't be trusted.
  #279  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:42 PM
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A General is oppressed?
Everyone else is named Mazlumer.
  #280  
Old 10-14-2019, 02:45 PM
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You can't blame ABC when it reports lies.

He's the President. You have to cover his speeches.
  #281  
Old 10-14-2019, 03:21 PM
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Just curious, which UN military action was that? Was it one of the ones where they did nothing while civilians were massacred?
Nope. The Congo, where they tried to keep the country together despite the Belgian mineral interests.

But the lack of effectiveness of UN troops lately makes my point. Expecting them to go up against ISIS is stupid.
  #282  
Old 10-14-2019, 03:40 PM
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I'm saying the video doesn't show the attack like they claim it does. In a word, they're misrepresenting events.
Well, if it was a real attack, they're misrepresenting that the attack looked like that.

Meanwhile, you were misrepresenting your knowledge of whether there was an attack or not. So I don't think I'm going to trust what you have to say about ABC, which makes a real effort to get their facts right, and usually does.

Anyhow, Trump has betrayed the Kurds. This comes on the heels of his holding up military aid to Ukraine that they need to hold off the Russians.

Why should any ally trust us now, and who will Trump betray next?

I think he should be impeached and removed to minimize the opportunity for that 'next.' What say you?
  #283  
Old 10-14-2019, 04:04 PM
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... Meanwhile, you were misrepresenting your knowledge of whether there was an attack or not. ...
I don't think I was. I suppose you're getting that out of post #269 though, which is probably clumsily-worded enough to make such an interpretation possible. It was a response to your implied reading of the earlier post, and I didn't hesitate to clarify when you asked for it. This seems like a particularly uncharitable interpretation.

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... Why should any ally trust us now, and who will Trump betray next? ...
For decades now the USA's foreign policy position has swung back and forth on a number of matters as the White House changed hands (about every 8 years) from one party's control to the other's, and various other political considerations came into play. IMHO, foreign countries should probably be looking to ensure their own security without the need to rely on the USA.

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... I think he should be impeached and removed to minimize the opportunity for that 'next.' What say you?
I disagree. He campaigned as a bring-the-troops-home candidate who was going to make efforts to minimize our involvement in foreign entanglements. He won the election and this is just one example of him fulfilling that promise. I don't think he should be impeached for that.
  #284  
Old 10-14-2019, 04:15 PM
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For decades now the USA's foreign policy position has swung back and forth on a number of matters as the White House changed hands (about every 8 years) from one party's control to the other's, and various other political considerations came into play. IMHO, foreign countries should probably be looking to ensure their own security without the need to rely on the USA.
Yeah, people shouldn't ally with democratic countries. Better to ally with dictatorships.
  #285  
Old 10-14-2019, 04:17 PM
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I disagree. He campaigned as a bring-the-troops-home candidate who was going to make efforts to minimize our involvement in foreign entanglements. He won the election and this is just one example of him fulfilling that promise. I don't think he should be impeached for that.
Given that he "brought home" 50 troops and then immediately sent out 2800 to Saudi Arabia makes this yet another false attempt to defend Dear Leader.

Besides, I don't recall you defending Obama bringing home the troops in Iraq. In fact, I seem to remember you repeatedly castigating him for it. But then, you're all about cheering on Presidents reneging on deals made by their predecessor. If it's a Republican.

Last edited by Chisquirrel; 10-14-2019 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Missed a couple nuts
  #286  
Old 10-14-2019, 04:27 PM
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The attack may have been real, but the footage may have been completely unrelated. You can't show a news segment saying, "Fire blazes in Chicago downtown district" and then cut to a TV clip of a fire in a warehouse in Kansas.
Yes, that would be completely unethical, and I hope the MSM would correct a misrepresentation like this. I don't necessarily think this was done purposefully. It may have just been an honest fuck-up. Maybe ABC News did not do their due diligence if they acquired this footage from an external source and did not properly vet it. Or maybe some frazzled intern (who should know better) threw it in there to fill out the visual footage. Given that I generally see the MSM correct itself when it makes an error in reporting, I'm going to wait to hear if they have any response to this and acknowledge the error.

ETA: Oh, wait, looks like they did. This is what I expect from a news organization. Sometimes, they fuck up, but when they do, I want to hear them account for it and not just gloss right over it into the next lie.
  #287  
Old 10-14-2019, 04:32 PM
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Yes, that would be completely unethical, and I hope the MSM would correct a misrepresentation like this. I don't necessarily think this was done purposefully. It may have just been an honest fuck-up. Maybe ABC News did not do their due diligence if they acquired this footage from an external source and did not properly vet it. Or maybe some frazzled intern (who should know better) threw it in there to fill out the visual footage. Given that I generally see the MSM correct itself when it makes an error in reporting, I'm going to wait to hear if they have any response to this and acknowledge the error.

ETA: Oh, wait, looks like they did. This is what I expect from a news organization. Sometimes, they fuck up, but when they do, I want to hear them account for it and not just gloss right over it into the next lie.
Seriously? You think "after questions were raised about its accuracy" is ABC "account[ing] for it"? It wasn't "questions". It's not like it's still unknown whether the video was shot in Syria or Kentucky. Their misrepresentation was pointed out to them, and they downplayed it as "questions were raised about its accuracy". What they're leaving unsaid is that those questions have been answered. It plainly wasn't accurate. They're not owning that, they're deflecting.

ETA: Twitter is in its usual savage form over this.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-14-2019 at 04:34 PM.
  #288  
Old 10-14-2019, 05:03 PM
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Seriously? You think "after questions were raised about its accuracy" is ABC "account[ing] for it"?
Yes. I do.
  #289  
Old 10-14-2019, 05:06 PM
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Seriously? You think "after questions were raised about its accuracy" is ABC "account[ing] for it"? It wasn't "questions". It's not like it's still unknown whether the video was shot in Syria or Kentucky. Their misrepresentation was pointed out to them, and they downplayed it as "questions were raised about its accuracy". What they're leaving unsaid is that those questions have been answered. It plainly wasn't accurate. They're not owning that, they're deflecting.

ETA: Twitter is in its usual savage form over this.
This reminds me of the Republicans' defense to impeachment, focusing on some small "procedural" issue in order to try and deflect from the big issues at hand.

Here, the strategy is to focus on some low-level video archivist at ABC News who selected the wrong video, surely as part of a diabolical scheme to spread some hoax or conspiracy against the Dear Leader.

For what it's worth, if the ABC investigation finds that the low-level video archivist knowingly used the wrong video, then that I think that might be grounds for dismissal. This isn't really of much importance with regards to what's happening in Syria right now, though, and feels more like a rabbit hole being frantically dug.
  #290  
Old 10-14-2019, 05:07 PM
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Seriously? You think "after questions were raised about its accuracy" is ABC "account[ing] for it"? It wasn't "questions". It's not like it's still unknown whether the video was shot in Syria or Kentucky. Their misrepresentation was pointed out to them, and they downplayed it as "questions were raised about its accuracy". What they're leaving unsaid is that those questions have been answered. It plainly wasn't accurate. They're not owning that, they're deflecting.

ETA: Twitter is in its usual savage form over this.
How many false or misleading statements has Trump made about the Kurds? Is it more than one? But you think an error on b-roll is more significant and substantive than Trump’s misstatements?

Also, are you asserting that civilians haven’t been killed by Turkey?
  #291  
Old 10-14-2019, 05:30 PM
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Trump announces sanctions on Turkey.

Even Mitch McConnell is on board, with a statement:
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Originally Posted by Mitch McConnell
I am gravely concerned by recent events in Syria and by our nation's apparent response thus far.
...
Abandoning this fight now and withdrawing U.S. forces from Syria would re-create the very conditions that we have worked hard to destroy and invite the resurgence of ISIS.
...
Looks like Congress is united in thinking Trump's decision was a bad idea.
  #292  
Old 10-14-2019, 06:35 PM
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JM Rieger, Washington Post:
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MIKE PENCE says TRUMP has directed him and ROBERT O’BRIEN to lead delegation to Turkey:

“The United States of America wants Turkey to stop the invasion, to implement an immediate ceasefire and to begin to negotiate with Kurdish forces in Syria to bring an end to the violence."
  #293  
Old 10-14-2019, 06:57 PM
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Seriously? You think "after questions were raised about its accuracy" is ABC "account[ing] for it"? It wasn't "questions". It's not like it's still unknown whether the video was shot in Syria or Kentucky. Their misrepresentation was pointed out to them, and they downplayed it as "questions were raised about its accuracy". What they're leaving unsaid is that those questions have been answered. It plainly wasn't accurate. They're not owning that, they're deflecting.

ETA: Twitter is in its usual savage form over this.
ABC just issued a correction. Now, when is Trump going to issue corrections to his thousands of lies?
  #294  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:02 PM
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How many false or misleading statements has Trump made about the Kurds? Is it more than one? But you think an error on b-roll is more significant and substantive than Trump’s misstatements? ...
This is the second time you've called it "b-roll". I think that's deceptively downplaying the central role of the video in the story. The narration says "This video right here appearing to show Turkey's military bombing Kurdish civilians in Syrian border town" and "This video, obtained by ABC News, appears to show the fury of the Turkish attack ..." (emphasis mine)

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... Also, are you asserting that civilians haven’t been killed by Turkey?
Not at all. According to Wikipedia, more than 100,000 civilians have been killed during the course of the civil war. Turkey has been a fairly active participant in that war, and I'm sure they've had a hand in killing at least some of those 100,000+ civilians that have died (as has every other major participant, I expect).
  #295  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:09 PM
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Trump owns this current mess.

100%. It was well known by anyone with a functioning brain cell that the only thing stopping Turkey from attacking was the US presence and the US saying "no, you will not".

Once Trump green-lit the attack by Turkey, it was on.

And everyone knew that if Turkey attacked the Kurds in Syria, that the Kurds would need to re-deploy forces, and ISIS fighters currently under guard would escape. This WAS A GIVEN. Now Trump is BULLSHITTING that the Kurds are "doing this on purpose". NO. Any idiot knew this would be a consequence of an invasion by Turkey. So of course it came as a surprise to Trump.

Trump is 100% responsible for the current shit-show in Turkey. And the ENTIRE REPUBLICAN PARTY is a collaborator. I hope they enjoy the show. They helped Trump's destruction.
  #296  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:18 PM
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This is the second time you've called it "b-roll". I think that's deceptively downplaying the central role of the video in the story. The narration says "This video right here appearing to show Turkey's military bombing Kurdish civilians in Syrian border town" and "This video, obtained by ABC News, appears to show the fury of the Turkish attack ..." (emphasis mine)
Why are you fixating on this? What do you think it proves? What would ABC News to have to gain by deliberately showing a "fake" example of the Turks bombing the Kurds, when there are plenty of real videos of the Turks bombing the Kurds?
  #297  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
This is the second time you've called it "b-roll". I think that's deceptively downplaying the central role of the video in the story. The narration says "This video right here appearing to show Turkey's military bombing Kurdish civilians in Syrian border town" and "This video, obtained by ABC News, appears to show the fury of the Turkish attack ..." (emphasis mine)


Not at all. According to Wikipedia, more than 100,000 civilians have been killed during the course of the civil war. Turkey has been a fairly active participant in that war, and I'm sure they've had a hand in killing at least some of those 100,000+ civilians that have died (as has every other major participant, I expect).
Your smoking gun, so to speak, is that ABC News said a video “appears to show” something, but they were incorrect? But you aren’t denying that Turkey is responsible for what may be war crimes violations? And then ABC News ran a retraction to correct the story?

Gerald H. Crocks, you really fucking nailed them there. Let’s get a petition going to rename the Pulitzer Prize for this amazing dedication to the truth.

But tell me specifically: how, exactly, were you misled by this video footage? Like, how was your understanding of world events substantively impacted? What particular aspect of the war was either relieved or aggravated when you saw the ersatz video? When you learned it was broadcast in error, did your view of the war change? Any other commentary on how important the video was to the facts at hand?
  #298  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:44 PM
Magiver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walken After Midnight View Post
Trump announces sanctions on Turkey.

Even Mitch McConnell is on board, with a statement:

Looks like Congress is united in thinking Trump's decision was a bad idea.
If only there was an article in the Constitution that granted Congress the power to declare war. Then they could show their unity.
  #299  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
But tell me specifically: how, exactly, were you misled by this video footage?
You mean beside it being a fake representation of what happened?
  #300  
Old 10-14-2019, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magiver View Post
You mean beside it being a fake representation of what happened?
That doesn’t answer my questions. But of course, I suspect I will not get a substantive response to my question, because nobody was actually misinformed on a substantive matter.
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