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  #51  
Old 10-29-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
It's a spectrum, like many things. Virtually all conservatives and liberals would agree that, on an end of "Your status is because your circumstances" and "Your status is because of your character traits," that most people got to where they are today because of a mix. But conservatives might weight it as "30% circumstances, 70% character/intelligence/hard work," and liberals might go with the opposite ratio.
Correct, but both sides paint their side as the correct mix …

Problematic to be sure. What liberals tend to do more so than conservatives and WHY I feel like my side is more correct than the liberal side, is that when liberals see the problem as mostly environmental, they can CHANGE the environment (or THINK they can at any rate) thus absolving the person or people of their own bad choices.
I don't feel like this helps anyone, except on a temporary basis.

When the conservative side sees problems and wants to make them about the choices that you make, it is time to take a good long look at yourself and there isn't anyone else to blame for your misfortune. And even if there is, you have to step up and make the changes to better yourself.


The compromise might be to offer that safety net to those who make correct and incorrect choices, mistakes happen, but at some point it cannot be a permanent solution to a temporary problem. But alas, the problems seem to stay permanent in some cases.

Last edited by Kearsen1; 10-29-2019 at 03:11 PM.
  #52  
Old 10-30-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by filmore View Post
There was a podcast I heard called "Red Brain, Blue Brain" which said:

(Liberals react more strongly to the positive pictures, conservative to the negative ones).

While opinions can often be based on biases, these scans allowed techs to determine whether someone was a liberal or conservative just from looking at the brain scans. So these kinds of differences should be more accurate than something that is based on personal bias.
There are also differences on what is considered a positive or a negative image. And sometimes, the differences depend on context.

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Originally Posted by It can't happen here
Karl spoke often of photographs in the Moscow News of nearly naked girls on Russian bathing-beaches as proving the triumph and joy of the workers under Bolshevism, but he regarded precisely the same sort of photographs of nearly naked girls on Long Island bathing-beaches as proving the degeneration of workers under Capitalism.
I've known quite a few people like Karl.
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  #53  
Old 10-30-2019, 10:02 AM
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I got into a discussion with a conservative family members and drew this tidbit out.

We agreed that pretty much "no one likes cheaters and moochers" and "no one likes to see people having misfortune". But where we disagreed was which bothered one more.

To a person, all my conservative relatives were more bothered by cheaters than by people having misfortune.

I think that speaks volumes about our great divide.
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  #54  
Old 10-30-2019, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by BwanaBob View Post
I got into a discussion with a conservative family members and drew this tidbit out.

We agreed that pretty much "no one likes cheaters and moochers" and "no one likes to see people having misfortune". But where we disagreed was which bothered one more.

To a person, all my conservative relatives were more bothered by cheaters than by people having misfortune.

I think that speaks volumes about our great divide.
Probably because one speaks to one's character/individual responsibility, while the other is just plain old luck OR a direct consequence from bad choices by an individual.


They should both be important, and we should be stamping out with full force the cheaters and the moochers, while supplying those with dumb luck an opportunity to get out of the trouble.

Are we? Or are we excusing all said bad decision making that goes on and/or condemning the attempts to stamp out the cheaters and moochers?
  #55  
Old 10-30-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FlikTheBlue View Post
In theory this question would take at least two people to answer. None the less, Iíll give it my best shot and start with a few that

I think conservatives believe that the right to own a gun does make them safer.

I think conservatives believe that they arenít racist, even though we would probably disagree on what counts as racist and what doesnít.

I think conservatives believe that homosexuality and being transgender are wrong.
I was going to respond to the OP and say I don't always find such threads useful, because although there is a general idea of what it means to be liberal vs. conservative, there are no hard and fast rules. If I believe in capital punishment but want to allow pretty much any type of gun to be legal, which category am I in? This is of course just for two issues, but I hope the idea is clear. So, to have a meaningful discussion, it seems to me we have to clearly define each. This is never done, and I'm not sure it can be. So by its very nature, the thread is less precise than it could be. I suppose people may reply and say, "we all know very good and well what a liberal is and what a conservative is". But this kind of thing easily lends itself to general, unsupportable statements by one group about the other, with no way to refute them, because in the end we don't even know precisely who is being talked about. I've just done a cursory glance through the thread, and I see general statements all over the place. Anyway, I respond here to you instead, because your post raises something similar. Is someone a conservative because he thinks guns make him safer, or does he come to that conclusion and then join the Republican party? A similar question could be raised about your other statements.

This is not to say interesting discussions cannot be had, and I look forward to reading the rest of the thread.
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  #56  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Kearsen1 View Post
Probably because one speaks to one's character/individual responsibility, while the other is just plain old luck OR a direct consequence from bad choices by an individual.


They should both be important, and we should be stamping out with full force the cheaters and the moochers, while supplying those with dumb luck an opportunity to get out of the trouble.

Are we? Or are we excusing all said bad decision making that goes on and/or condemning the attempts to stamp out the cheaters and moochers?
I agree they're both important but which is "more" important? Because each party has pretty much chosen one over the other as the more important ill to solve.
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  #57  
Old 10-31-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Fiddle Peghead View Post
If I believe in capital punishment but want to allow pretty much any type of gun to be legal, which category am I in?
...conservative? I mean, you just listed two pretty standard conservative political beliefs, so I'm not sure what dilemma you're trying to illustrate here.
  #58  
Old 11-01-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by sps49sd View Post
Canadian voter ID doesn't deny voting to eligible voters? Why do USA voter ID laws deny voting to eligible voters?
There are a number of differences between US and Canadian voting. Unlike in the US, Canadian citizens have a constitutional right to vote (Section 3 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms), with only children under 18 and the head and deputy head of the agency in charge of elections excluded. Every other citizen, including prison inmates, has the right to vote.

Canada also has a very specifically non-political agency in charge of administering federal elections (with similar provincial-level agencies), which defines our ID requirements very broadly to avoid preventing any eligible voter from voting. For example, my father is in a nursing home, and has no ID documents, but can vote because the staff is allowed to vouch for him to the poll clerks who come in at election time.
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