Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:02 AM
Sterling Archer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,136
Ok I know someone new who could dominate in both the primary and the general seems impossible, but I admit Jon Stewart would crush it.
  #52  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:05 AM
dalej42 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 14,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by chappachula View Post
A president often appears with the First Lady , holding hands and kissing-- at the convention, during the campaign,dancing together at the inaugural ball,etc.

Serious question: does Buttigieg have a partner?
After seeing them holding hands and kissing in public, some people (a lot of people, actually) are going to have a problem voting for him.

Remember, many people vote mostly by their gut-level feelings.
Have you not been paying attention to Pete’s campaign? He mentions Chasten every single stump speech and interview. Chasten is a major asset for him, he does his own independent fundraising: I saw Chasten here in Chicago a couple of months ago. Pete’s last major fundraising event was an opportunity to watch Hamilton with Chasten, who is a former drama teacher. The newest fundraiser is a chance to FaceTime with Chasten and the dogs!
__________________
Twitter:@Stardales IG:@Dalej42
  #53  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:16 AM
Lord Feldon's Avatar
Lord Feldon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 6,618
Yes, I will agree that Chasten is an asset on the campaign trail. I think there might even be a weird boomerang effect where the novelty of a gay candidate allows some soft-focus reporting on the candidate's family life that we wouldn't normally get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sterling Archer View Post
Ok I know someone new who could dominate in both the primary and the general seems impossible, but I admit Jon Stewart would crush it.
Why would a retired host of a niche late-night cable show be expected to "dominate" in the primary? At his peak, he was getting, what, 3 million viewers? There will be more voters in just the California primary.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 11-05-2019 at 10:17 AM.
  #54  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:19 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 35,868
Being worried is great, and we Democrats should pretty much always be worried. But the doom and gloom stuff is silly and counterproductive.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/year...ry?id=66664948

Just one poll, but every candidate right now has a massive double digit lead over Trump in this poll. We should always be worried... But the answer is more turnout, more donating, more volunteering, etc. Not "let's dump all these candidates, even the ones with great enthusiasm and fundraising".
__________________
My new novel Spindown
  #55  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:33 AM
JKellyMap's Avatar
JKellyMap is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,793
One Year From Election, Trump Trails Biden but Leads Warren in Battlegrounds (NY Times)

“Despite low national approval ratings and the specter of impeachment, President Trump remains highly competitive in the battleground states likeliest to decide his re-election, according to a set of new surveys from The New York Times Upshot and Siena College.”
  #56  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:34 AM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 16,235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
Yeah, I'm not getting the anti-Pete "phony" insult, either
It's a joke. Trump's ignorant crassness is frequently defended as him "being genuine" and not some educated phony who has invested some effort in learning his native tongue to facilitate communication of ideas.

Every time there is a Democrat "debate" and Buttigieg is present, he is the only adult in the room. The others come off as old children, every bit as petty and snipey as high schoolers, relying on rhetoric and predictable talking points. Buttigieg comes across as a progressive who can be respectful of the impact his policies will have on more conservative folks.

As far as the fallout of him smooching his hubby on stage, it won't be a problem as long as we lean on our kids to vote. Generally they see the old candidates as being the nicer side of the same system that has been destroying the environment and using developing nations for target practice. A hip, well-spoken, and apparently compassionate fellow, who can admit and face his personal challenges rather than play them off, is appealing.
  #57  
Old 11-05-2019, 10:51 AM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is online now
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 85,484
asahi, if Trump wins in 2020, it will be because of you, and people like you. You keep on telling everyone that there is no hope. People with no hope don't vote. The way to lose the election is for people who would have voted for the Democrat to not bother, because it's hopeless. The way to win the election is for everyone to realize that there is hope, and that their vote can make a difference. By spreading your message of hopelessness, you are, in effect, campaigning for Trump.
  #58  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:06 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 16,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
a repeat of 2008 with Pete in the Obama role and Warren as Hillary.
...and, as Joe Biden: Joe Biden!
  #59  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:17 AM
PatriotGrrrl is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NH, USA
Posts: 1,507
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
How do you like the sound of "President Colbert"? It would begin as one of his farcical larks, but suddenly everyone would realize that the voters had become serious about him. He would protest and demur, but the process would railroad genuine humor into the Whitehouse, and we might all finally discover what the man himself is really like.
Hey, it worked for Ukraine!

(I don't know how good of a president Zelensky is, but I believe he is popular.)
__________________
Liberty is a direction, not a destination.
  #60  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:06 PM
Banquet Bear's Avatar
Banquet Bear is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 5,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalej42 View Post
Please don’t let the campaign define Pete’s position on Medicare for all who want it. Here’s evidence that Pete’s position has remained consistent.
https://twitter.com/sevendicey/statu...542948867?s=21
..."consistent from Feb 2019" isn't exactly what most people would call "consistent." February was when he pivoted from Medicare For All to Medicare For All Who Want It. When asked back in 2018 "Can you affirmatively say that we need #MedicareForAll now and that insurance does not belong in healthcare?" Buttigieg responded:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Pete
Gosh! Okay... I, Pete Buttigieg, politician, do henceforth and forthwith declare, most affirmatively and indubitably, unto the ages, that I do favor Medicare for All, as I do favor any measure that would help get all Americans covered. Now if you'll excuse me, potholes await.
https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/st...96700511825920

The position he took then isn't consistent with the position he takes now. We should let Mayor Pete's words define his position on Medicare for all. "Natural glidepath" is wishy washy nonsense. There is no "natural glidepath" from his healthcare policy (which doesn't guarantee universal coverage) to universal coverage. That isn't how anything works.

Quote:
I know Pete was fine as the cute cuddly gay polling under 5%. Now that he’s a threat to Warren’s coronation, the knives are out. The last thing Warren wants is a repeat of 2008 with Pete in the Obama role and Warren as Hillary.
Lets stop the "coronation" garbage. It was garbage with Hillary and its garbage with Warren. Warren has fought hard to get to the position she is at right now with policies and plans and is probably the hardest worker on the campaign trail. Mayor Pete has been wishy-washy with his policy positions from the start. He didn't even think he needed to put policy on his website when he started his campaign. The "knives aren't out" because he's "over 5%. The knives are out because we are approaching the endgame here and Mayor Pete is throwing down and his opponents are throwing back. Mayor Pete aint no Obama.
  #61  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:16 PM
Procrustus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 12,565
Whether the next president wants Medicare for All or Medicare for All That Want It seems like a small issue. Whoever wins will need to be flexible and work with Congress on a bill that can pass and makes sense. The details really do not matter at that point, assuming they're not advocating something ridiculous (Mexico will pay for the wall!). All the Democratic candidates would work to make things better, and Trump won't. That's the issue.
  #62  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:16 PM
FlikTheBlue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,845
I think Mayor Pete is the centrist break in case of emergency candidate. Unfortunately Joe Biden is taking the wind out of his sails due to name recognition. That may change by Iowa. It would be nice if it came down to Buttigieg vs. Warren. IMHO that would be the best case scenario going forward from Super Tuesday through the end of the primaries.
  #63  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:29 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is online now
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 85,484
Oh, and the notion of "Warren's coronation" is ludicrous, given that a few months ago, it was Biden who was going to be "coronated". Objection to Warren being "coronated" basically just amounts to objecting to the fact that, in the end, one candidate is going to win the primary.
  #64  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:35 PM
CarnalK's Avatar
CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 18,615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
..."consistent from Feb 2019" isn't exactly what most people would call "consistent." February was when he pivoted from Medicare For All to Medicare For All Who Want It. When asked back in 2018 "Can you affirmatively say that we need #MedicareForAll now and that insurance does not belong in healthcare?" Buttigieg responded:
Since that "pivot" comes just a week after his exploratory committee and months before his actual campaign launch, I think a lot of people would call that consistent.

Last edited by CarnalK; 11-05-2019 at 12:36 PM.
  #65  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:44 PM
Banquet Bear's Avatar
Banquet Bear is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 5,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
Since that "pivot" comes just a week after his exploratory committee and months before his actual campaign launch, I think a lot of people would call that consistent.
...a lot of people can think whatever they like. A lot of people see Mayor Pete as nothing but an empty suit. A lot more people think Biden or Warren should be the democratic nominee for President of the United States. To flip from "Medicare for all" to "not Medicare for all" in less than a year is a pretty big flip.
  #66  
Old 11-05-2019, 12:48 PM
Procrustus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...a lot of people can think whatever they like. A lot of people see Mayor Pete as nothing but an empty suit. A lot more people think Biden or Warren should be the democratic nominee for President of the United States. To flip from "Medicare for all" to "not Medicare for all" in less than a year is a pretty big flip.
It's a minor flip. Very few people who favor one will have strong feelings against the other. (and among those that do have strong feelings, I'd bet they favor Pete's proposal as less "threatening.") Does a public option really turn people off enough to check out of the 2020 election?
  #67  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:01 PM
Banquet Bear's Avatar
Banquet Bear is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 5,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
It's a minor flip. Very few people who favor one will have strong feelings against the other. (and among those that do have strong feelings, I'd bet they favor Pete's proposal as less "threatening.") Does a public option really turn people off enough to check out of the 2020 election?
...the difference between universal coverage and non-universal coverage is not a "minor flip." Its an entire paradigm. Yes: people have strong feelings about this. I'm surprised you've missed the healthcare debates on these boards alone, let alone the debates that have taken place in public. Pete's entire schtick is to be "less threatening." No big ideas, focus tested policies that are right-down-the-middle.

And I've consistently said whomever gets the nomination should get the support. If Mayor Pete gets the nomination I'll be happy to shut-up about him and would encourage everyone to back him. That doesn't mean that I think his version of "a public option" would turn people off at the next election. It just means I personally think there are better options out there than his proposals.
  #68  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:10 PM
Procrustus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...the difference between universal coverage and non-universal coverage is not a "minor flip." Its an entire paradigm. Yes: people have strong feelings about this. I'm surprised you've missed the healthcare debates on these boards alone, let alone the debates that have taken place in public. Pete's entire schtick is to be "less threatening." No big ideas, focus tested policies that are right-down-the-middle.

And I've consistently said whomever gets the nomination should get the support. If Mayor Pete gets the nomination I'll be happy to shut-up about him and would encourage everyone to back him. That doesn't mean that I think his version of "a public option" would turn people off at the next election. It just means I personally think there are better options out there than his proposals.
I can agree with that. There are probably better options from a policy perspective. I wish elections were about policy.

I could happily vote for most of the current field (and would definitely vote for any of them, even Bernie, who gets the nominations)

I guess my point is that by the time we get to January 2021, the next President will probably be advocating for the best program they think they can get through Congress, regardless of what they think the best hypothetical plan would be. Warren could shift to Pete's plan, or vice versa.
  #69  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:16 PM
Banquet Bear's Avatar
Banquet Bear is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 5,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
I guess my point is that by the time we get to January 2021, the next President will probably be advocating for the best program they think they can get through Congress, regardless of what they think the best hypothetical plan would be. Warren could shift to Pete's plan, or vice versa.
...Warren isn't going to shift to Pete's healthcare plan.
  #70  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:38 PM
Procrustus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...Warren isn't going to shift to Pete's healthcare plan.
Congress might. Is she going to veto it?
  #71  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:38 PM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...a lot of people can think whatever they like. A lot of people see Mayor Pete as nothing but an empty suit. A lot more people think Biden or Warren should be the democratic nominee for President of the United States. To flip from "Medicare for all" to "not Medicare for all" in less than a year is a pretty big flip.
And it isn't just the flip, but that he's attacked other candidates for supporting it, when a year ago, that was his stated position.

It's one thing to change one's mind, but if you held a particular position a year ago, you at least ought to consider it a reasonable position for others to take, even though you've abandoned it.

And if you've swung so far that you no longer consider your last year's position even reasonable for others to hold, then boy howdy, you sure were an idiot a year ago, why should we think you're smart now?
  #72  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:47 PM
Banquet Bear's Avatar
Banquet Bear is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 5,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Congress might. Is she going to veto it?
...Congress isn't Warren. Congress aren't going to adopt a barely thought-out-plan from the guy who will probably eventually rank maybe fourth or fifth in the race for the nomination.
  #73  
Old 11-05-2019, 01:55 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,604
Somehow I picture asahi with several men in black leather jackets behind him speaking in clumsy English, “Emergency. Everybody to get from street. Emergency. Everybody to get from street.
  #74  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:03 PM
septimus's Avatar
septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 19,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Whether the next president wants Medicare for All or Medicare for All That Want It seems like a small issue. Whoever wins will need to be flexible and work with Congress on a bill that can pass and makes sense. The details really do not matter at that point, ...
Thank you for the refreshing common-sense. All the hand-wringing over M4A details is just silly at this point.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...we are approaching the endgame here ...
I'm NOT saying you're wrong. But there's something profoundly counter-productive about our political system if, with the election still 12 months away, we're in the "end-game." In the olden days, candidates were often not selected until the summer conventions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for a possible Draft Michelle Obama movement:
(1) I realize it's a dreadfully unlikely long-shot.
(2) While decorum might require that Madame President sit behind the desk, we could expect the First Husband to provide major campaign help and Presidential advice.
(3) It does NOT strike me as far-fetched that next November Trump would have a 65% chance against Warren or an enfeebled Biden but only 25% against Michelle.
(4) Of course she doesn't want the job. Duh. But with the odds just mentioned and guessing $3 trillion as the cost to America and the world of four more years of Trump, for her to run would be her gift to humanity with a value of over a trillion dollars. At one stroke she would become the greatest philanthropist in all of history.

(I think $3 trillion is a very low under-estimate of the cost of a second Trump term, when climate change, geopolitics and America's own growing inequities are all considered. Recall that Dubya wasted trillions just with his Iraq misadventure.)

Last edited by septimus; 11-05-2019 at 02:07 PM.
  #75  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:17 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Let's face facts: as things right now, the Democrats are in danger of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. Biden is too old. Warren and Sanders are too radical. Castro, Booker, and Harris are too identity-ish. Klobuchar too bland. Buttigieg too gay*.

Is there anyone else out there we could nominate?

* I don't mean that being gay is an issue with me, but it is going to be an issue with some social conservatives who happen to be Democrats.
Biden isnt too old, but if you keep saying that, over & over & over, it will play into the hands of the GOP and kremlin and give Trump a second term. They, I am certain, appreciate your efforts on their behalf.
  #76  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:19 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
You mean the one person in all of history to lose an election to Donald Trump?
Actually there were several.
  #77  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:22 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by steatopygia View Post
Elizabeth Warren is 70 YO. And in my opinion, too old.
trump is 73 years old, but we dont hear the GOP saying he is too old.

Perhaps we Dems should take a page from their book and not attack our own candidates based upon crap like this.
  #78  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:25 PM
Procrustus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
trump is 73 years old, but we dont hear the GOP saying he is too old.

Perhaps we Dems should take a page from their book and not attack our own candidates based upon crap like this.
I agree. I have a generic preference for someone younger, but all of the "old" candidates are light years ahead of Trump.
  #79  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:25 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontbesojumpy View Post
asahi is in a sweaty panic because there's no far-right republican who democrats love. [The op] is irrational politically and out of touch when it comes to the facts that the electorate plug into when they make a decision.
....
Or, is he actually wanting trump to win, posting stuff like this over and over?
  #80  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:27 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,440
[QUOTE=Lamoral;21955389...

I've said many many times I think Pete Buttigieg is the most likely to beat Trump, and I do not think being gay is as big of a liability as a lot of people think. This isn't 1992, it's not even 2002. Being gay isn't a punchline anymore. It is WAY more accepted than it's ever been.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but not in "Peoria". Mayor Pete is a great guy, and I hope America is ready for him in 2028. But not in 2020, sadly.

He's young and maybe after getting a senate seat or on the cabinet, he can take the electorate by storm in about a decade. Let's hope.
  #81  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:31 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Oh, and the notion of "Warren's coronation" is ludicrous, given that a few months ago, it was Biden who was going to be "coronated". Objection to Warren being "coronated" basically just amounts to objecting to the fact that, in the end, one candidate is going to win the primary.
Yeah, it was bogus with Hillary and it's doubley bogus now.
  #82  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:33 PM
Inigo Montoya's Avatar
Inigo Montoya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 16,235
Coronation is for amateurs anyway. Obama was anointed as I recall.
  #83  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:33 PM
DrDeth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: San Jose
Posts: 42,440
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...a lot of people can think whatever they like. A lot of people see Mayor Pete as nothing but an empty suit. A lot more people think Biden or Warren should be the democratic nominee for President of the United States. To flip from "Medicare for all" to "not Medicare for all" in less than a year is a pretty big flip.

Are we talking about REAL Medicare for all or Sanders plan by the same name which has no relation at all to medicare, and that we cant afford?

Real Medicare for all, warts and all, is workable and affordable.

Sanders/Warrens plan will never pass.
  #84  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:44 PM
RTFirefly is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Maryland
Posts: 39,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Biden isnt too old, but if you keep saying that, over & over & over, it will play into the hands of the GOP and kremlin and give Trump a second term. They, I am certain, appreciate your efforts on their behalf.
You dramatically overestimate asahi's influence.
  #85  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:45 PM
Kolak of Twilo's Avatar
Kolak of Twilo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Edgewater/Chicago
Posts: 3,954
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKellyMap View Post
One Year From Election, Trump Trails Biden but Leads Warren in Battlegrounds (NY Times)

“Despite low national approval ratings and the specter of impeachment, President Trump remains highly competitive in the battleground states likeliest to decide his re-election, according to a set of new surveys from The New York Times Upshot and Siena College.”
I would consider that what this poll tells us is being ignored is the larger problem or Democrats. To my reading it reinforces what I have been saying for a while - Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania are the key states for Democrats to flip in 2020. Selecting a candidate who can do that is the only way we win. Selecting a candidate who boosts turnout in more liberal areas like California, New York, Massachusetts, etc gets the Democrats nothing.

Whoever the Democrats select is pretty well guaranteed to carry the same states HRC carried in 2016, whether they are acceptable to the progressive/liberal wing or the more moderate wing of the party. Selecting someone who can carry those three states in the Upper Midwest is crucial but I remain worried this continues to be ignored.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 11-05-2019 at 02:45 PM.
  #86  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:54 PM
Banquet Bear's Avatar
Banquet Bear is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 5,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Are we talking about REAL Medicare for all or Sanders plan by the same name which has no relation at all to medicare, and that we cant afford?

Real Medicare for all, warts and all, is workable and affordable.

Sanders/Warrens plan will never pass.
...I suggest you direct that question to Mayor Pete. What was he thinking when he gave unqualified support for Medicare for all?
  #87  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:57 PM
E-DUB's Avatar
E-DUB is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,857
Let's be honest. If any of the health plans being touted by any of the potential nominees passes Congress, any of them will sign it. It's all "how many angels" stuff at this moment.

I recently heard someone say that Democrats are the "debate team" and Republicans are the "cheerleader squad". That seems about right. I think that people would rather have the debate team running things but they seem to vote for the cheerleaders.
  #88  
Old 11-05-2019, 02:58 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,604
Okay, no one really likes or takes seriously the Mooch or much of anything he say, but this dubious prognostication of his, that Individual-ONE will not survive (as president) past March is worth noting.

Worth noting inasmuch as everyone here is concerned about permanently sending the Putter-in-Chief back to Florida, when, really, what needs to be considered is that the Democrats need a viable candidate who can stand on their own. What if the election pits the Democrat against a copper coin from Indiana? I hear the man is fairly articulate and seems comparatively rational. What if Don-of-Orange turns out to be not in play and the Democrats are forced to contend with someone who can at least put on a respectable adult façade?
  #89  
Old 11-05-2019, 03:20 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 9,426
Are you talking about Pence? That guy never says anything substantive. He would be the Republican placeholder, getting the standard Republican votes, and sounding like an idiot in a debate with any of the Democratic candidates.
  #90  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:07 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos is online now
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 85,484
And any situation which ends up with Trump removed from office is going to put a major taint on the Republican brand as a whole. Pence can't just say "Donald who? Never heard of him.".
  #91  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:09 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
And any situation which ends up with Trump removed from office is going to put a major taint on the Republican brand as a whole. Pence can't just say "Donald who? Never heard of him.".
I agree, which is one reason why most Senate Republicans are unlikely to go along with it.
  #92  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:11 PM
Procrustus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pacific NW. ¥
Posts: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I agree, which is one reason why most Senate Republicans are unlikely to go along with it.
Yeah. "One reason." I can't think of another reason, can you?
  #93  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:39 PM
JKellyMap's Avatar
JKellyMap is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 9,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolak of Twilo View Post
To my reading it reinforces what I have been saying for a while - Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania are the key states for Democrats to flip in 2020.
Yes. I literally gave the Joe campaign fifty bucks seconds after reading that article. This is one of those elections when one’s own preferences and feeling do not matter. All that matters are the preferences and feelings of about 100,000 people living within 200 miles of a Great Lake.

Bizarre that it’s cone down to this, but it has.
  #94  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:43 PM
Fiddle Peghead's Avatar
Fiddle Peghead is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Harlem, New York, NY
Posts: 4,457
Regardless of when Pete switched from Medicare for All to Medicare for All Who Want It, I hardly think it's the major paradigm shift that has been suggested. MfAWWI is a subset of MfA. And for the record, there is no way MfA is going to be the law of the land in four years if say Warren is elected, or even 10. If adopted MfAWWI will either be a success, saving money for those who want it, thus leading to wider adoption, or it will fail, but ISTM that this is the only viable way to eventually get to MfA any time "soon".

And plenty of both Democrats and Republicans do like the health care they have, so if nothing else, Pete's plan is the most politically astute. And while I get that as a general rule you don't want someone in office who changes positions at the drop of a hat, given that you don't know what they'll do in the future, I've never understood the excoriation of politicians who sometimes switch positions, the dreaded flip-flop. A politician should be allowed to adapt to what the voters want. I don't know if that's why Pete changed positions, but it is not always bad to do so.
__________________
The essence of youth is believing things last forever. -Eric Sevareid

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 11-05-2019 at 04:44 PM.
  #95  
Old 11-05-2019, 05:13 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 16,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
And any situation which ends up with Trump removed from office is going to put a major taint on the Republican brand as a whole. Pence can't just say "Donald who? Never heard of him.".
In the mid 1970s, a Republican President left office in disgrace. The VP who took over for him lost a rather close election, and the Rs were back in the WH only 4 years later. This seems different, but even so, parasites rarely go easily.
  #96  
Old 11-05-2019, 05:45 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 11,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
asahi, if Trump wins in 2020, it will be because of you, and people like you. You keep on telling everyone that there is no hope. People with no hope don't vote. The way to lose the election is for people who would have voted for the Democrat to not bother, because it's hopeless. The way to win the election is for everyone to realize that there is hope, and that their vote can make a difference. By spreading your message of hopelessness, you are, in effect, campaigning for Trump.
Uh, no, I take no responsibility for people not having hope. What kills hope is the blatant corruption the see and the lack of accountability. I'm outraged, and while I have my doubts, I still participate in the system and still encourage others to participate. My messages of despair aren't messages of apathy; they reflect outrage and frustration.

Find someone else to blame, Chronos.
  #97  
Old 11-05-2019, 05:55 PM
Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 15,654
Swing voters in battleground states like Bernie and Biden, but not Warren:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/meet-swin...193019533.html
  #98  
Old 11-05-2019, 06:06 PM
HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 14,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Yeah. "One reason." I can't think of another reason, can you?
Sure, I can think of a lot of reasons. Another one might be that they don't consider anything he's done to amount to "high crimes and misdemeanors" that merit removal from office.
  #99  
Old 11-05-2019, 09:08 PM
JRDelirious is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Displaced
Posts: 16,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...the "emergency" was in 2015 when Trump formerly announced his run for the Presidency. People were yelling and screaming about voter suppression, about the weaponization of social media, they were ignored.
While everyone was pointing and laughing at Trump's Joke Campaign Guaranteed to Fold. Oy...


Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
In the mid 1970s, a Republican President left office in disgrace. The VP who took over for him lost a rather close election, and the Rs were back in the WH only 4 years later.
And stronger and ideologically harder-core.
People tend to badly discount the resiliency of parties and movements.
  #100  
Old 11-05-2019, 09:35 PM
Exapno Mapcase is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NY but not NYC
Posts: 31,728
Quote:
Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Yeah. "One reason." I can't think of another reason, can you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Sure, I can think of a lot of reasons. Another one might be that they don't consider anything he's done to amount to "high crimes and misdemeanors" that merit removal from office.
Good grief, Procrustus, you served him a slow, fat, pitch right down the middle of the plate and he hit the talking point out of the park.

Not that there's any validity to the talking point, but why give him the opportunity to trot it out?
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017