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Old 11-06-2019, 09:09 AM
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Both houses in Virginia flip from R to D and Kentucky Governor too!


So Republicans had both houses in Virginia and now Democrats have both. When does redistricting happen?

In Kentucky, where Trump campaigned for the incumbent Matt Bevin, he lost anyway.

Will this convince some Republicans Congressmen & Senators that blind public support of Trump is not to their benefit?

Last edited by What Exit?; 11-06-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:59 AM
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Republicans still have no choice but to super glue their lips to Donald's orange tush. If they fail to pledge perpetual fealty to the Orang-a-Don, they will be primaried by someone who is willing to do so. So they have the devil's choice- continue to hold tight to Donald and lose in a general election, or split off from him and lose in a primary.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:13 AM
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Or Republican office-holders can do what they believe is right for America and oppose other Republican politicians' gaslighting of Republican voters. Then, they can defeat primary challengers who will look like delusional traitors in the thrall of a con man and they can see if voters in the general actually want the real Republican policies they support. Maybe there is a way for Republicans to be decent people without trashing democracy. I recognize that this is not their game plan now.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:17 AM
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Thanks for not fucking that up for once, Kentucky.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:30 AM
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Republicans still have no choice but to super glue their lips to Donald's orange tush. If they fail to pledge perpetual fealty to the Orang-a-Don, they will be primaried by someone who is willing to do so. So they have the devil's choice- continue to hold tight to Donald and lose in a general election, or split off from him and lose in a primary.
Or pass "voter ID" laws, close voting sites, re-write state constitutions after they lose, gerrymander, scare minorities away from answering on the census, and lie, lie, lie, lie until there aren't enough democrat votes left to matter.

Which seems to be the current plan, and it's working nicely for them in most places.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:30 AM
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This will be the first time the Democrats control the Virginia House of Delegates since 1997, and the first time since 1993 that Democrats will control all three elected elements of the Virginia government.

Democratic control of the Virginia Senate is by the 21-19 minimum. One of the essential Senators will be Ghazala Hashmi, the first Muslim woman ever to be elected to the Virginia Senate.

Let us hope and pray that this glimpse of light is a harbinger of escape from our horrid national nightmare.

Last edited by septimus; 11-06-2019 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:35 AM
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In Kentucky, where Trump campaigned for the incumbent Matt Bevin, he lost anyway.
Kyle Griffin, MSNBC:
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Trump campaigned for Matt Bevin in Kentucky last night and said to the crowd, "You gotta vote because if you lose, it sends a really bad message. It just sends a bad and they're going to build it up ... You can't let that happen to me."
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:37 AM
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Kyle Griffin, MSNBC:
Sweet
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:39 AM
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Narrator: They let that happen to him.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:40 AM
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Republicans still have no choice but to super glue their lips to Donald's orange tush. If they fail to pledge perpetual fealty to the Orang-a-Don, they will be primaried by someone who is willing to do so. So they have the devil's choice- continue to hold tight to Donald and lose in a general election, or split off from him and lose in a primary.
I disagree. Most of the Republicans who have been supporting Trump are just opportunists. They've been following him because he's been winning. The second they no longer see an advantage out of riding Trump's coattails, they'll abandon him. And deny they ever supported him.

As for primary threats, let's not forget these are Republicans. They know how to rig elections. They're not even going to break a sweat outmaneuvering Trump's base.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:13 PM
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A Democrat won the race here in Upstate New York for Monroe County Executive, the head of the country legislature and effectively the county boss, beating the incumbant. That's the first time in almost 30 years and I didn't expect to see another one in my lifetime.
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Old 11-06-2019, 12:45 PM
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Trump campaigned for Matt Bevin in Kentucky last night and said to the crowd, "You gotta vote because if you lose, it sends a really bad message. It just sends a bad and they're going to build it up ... You can't let that happen to me."
So Donald threw a tantrum and held his breath until Kentucky turned blue.

My takeaways:
The suburbs of Cincinnati and Louisville abandoned the Republican in Kentucky, suburban voters in Virginia did as well. I don't see this as anything but good news for Democrats. If urban and suburban areas vote solidly blue, there simply aren't enough rural voters to carry the day in states like OH, PA, MI, WI, and FL to save the day for any Republican nominee. We could be entering the golden age of Democratic rule.

Mississippi played true to form and it's hard to see that state flipping in the next decade.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:04 PM
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Or Republican office-holders can do what they believe is right for America and oppose other Republican politicians' gaslighting of Republican voters. Then, they can defeat primary challengers who will look like delusional traitors in the thrall of a con man and they can see if voters in the general actually want the real Republican policies they support. Maybe there is a way for Republicans to be decent people without trashing democracy. I recognize that this is not their game plan now.
Even before the rise of Trump, the Tea Party proved that a determined group of single-issue fanatics can primary out any reasonable Republican candidate or hound them so badly, veteran Congress members and Senators decided it's not worth the political and personal wear and tear to fight the nuts' craziness every single day.

Trump simply put a face on a movement. Even if every single living Republican politician found Jesus, there are more nuts waiting in the wings to take them down.

Of course, it affects the Dems, too. Just ask Al Gore about the 97,000 Florida voters who voted for Ralph Nader, or Hillary Clinton about the Bernie Bros who stayed home in November.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:05 PM
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The county council of Delaware County, Pennsylvania is 5-0 Democrat for the first time since the Civil War.
The woman who flipped the bird to Individual 1's motorcade and lost her job got elected to the Loudoun County, Virginia Board of Supervisors.
Several Somali women have won seats in various boards and state legislatures in various states.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:08 PM
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I disagree. Most of the Republicans who have been supporting Trump are just opportunists. They've been following him because he's been winning. The second they no longer see an advantage out of riding Trump's coattails, they'll abandon him. And deny they ever supported him.
None of that actually contradicts what BobLibDem wrote.

Last edited by Miller; 11-06-2019 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:10 PM
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Of course, it affects the Dems, too. Just ask Al Gore about the 97,000 Florida voters who voted for Ralph Nader, or Hillary Clinton about the Bernie Bros who stayed home in November.
The Libertarian Party was crowing on twitter that their candidate received 28,000 votes in an election decided by five thousand. I never know how to interpret data like that but I do find it interesting if true.

edit: in Kentucky, I mean.

Last edited by Red Wiggler; 11-06-2019 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:27 PM
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Democrats didn't win any of the county legislature seats in my county. [ETA: which is not surprising.]

However, Democrats ran for county legislature seats in three out of four districts; which often doesn't happen. And they all pulled a significant number of votes, on the same order as the winning R's.

Last edited by thorny locust; 11-06-2019 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:27 PM
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This will be the first time the Democrats control the Virginia House of Delegates since 1997, and the first time since 1993 that Democrats will control all three elected elements of the Virginia government.

Democratic control of the Virginia Senate is by the 21-19 minimum. One of the essential Senators will be Ghazala Hashmi, the first Muslim woman ever to be elected to the Virginia Senate.

Let us hope and pray that this glimpse of light is a harbinger of escape from our horrid national nightmare.
Absolutely. And let us further hope Virginia will pass serious, meaningful legislation addressing such issues and gun control, health care, infrastructure building, etc., that will show obvious benefits, that other states will take notice, and that my home state will be a leader in bringing the US into the 21st century. But I'm not overly optimistic.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:29 PM
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So Donald threw a tantrum and held his breath until Kentucky turned blue.

My takeaways:
The suburbs of Cincinnati and Louisville abandoned the Republican in Kentucky, suburban voters in Virginia did as well. I don't see this as anything but good news for Democrats. If urban and suburban areas vote solidly blue, there simply aren't enough rural voters to carry the day in states like OH, PA, MI, WI, and FL to save the day for any Republican nominee. We could be entering the golden age of Democratic rule.

Mississippi played true to form and it's hard to see that state flipping in the next decade.
Not to rain on your parade (well, kind of), but I think you're reading far too much into this Kentucky win.

1) Kentucky has a long history of electing dems for governor (only 3 Republican governors in the last 70+ years)

2) Bevin's loss has far more to do with his own personal unpopularity than some party realignment in the suburbs. While Bevin was losing his race by ~5,000 votes, the Republican candidates were trouncing the dems in statewide races for Secretary of State (by ~65,000 votes), Attorney General (by ~221,000 votes), Treasurer (by ~301,000 votes), Auditor (by ~205,000 votes), and Agriculture Commissioner (by ~276,000 votes)


I suppose you could be entering "the golden age of Democratic rule", but it's more likely that you're not. Kentucky hasn't "turned blue".

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 11-06-2019 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 01:50 PM
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So the Libertarians pulled 2% of the Kentucky gubernatorial vote which is way more than the margin of victory for the Dems. Strange to see the Libertarian party actually affect something.
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Old 11-06-2019, 02:54 PM
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1) Kentucky has a long history of electing dems for governor (only 3 Republican governors in the last 70+ years)
True, but bear in mind that, up until the early 1960s, while much of the South was staunchly Democratic, many white Democrats from southern states were segregationists, who left the Democratic party for the GOP in the wake of Democratic support for integration and the civil rights movement.

What's relevant for a modern comparison is looking at the parties of Kentucky governors since 1970, though that still proves your point, since most have, in fact, been Democrats.
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Old 11-06-2019, 03:01 PM
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The Kentucky win is a minor snub to Trump, Virginia looms much larger for the Democrats fortunes.
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Old 11-06-2019, 03:07 PM
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Not to rain on your parade (well, kind of), but I think you're reading far too much into this Kentucky win.

1) Kentucky has a long history of electing dems for governor (only 3 Republican governors in the last 70+ years)

2) Bevin's loss has far more to do with his own personal unpopularity than some party realignment in the suburbs. While Bevin was losing his race by ~5,000 votes, the Republican candidates were trouncing the dems in statewide races for Secretary of State (by ~65,000 votes), Attorney General (by ~221,000 votes), Treasurer (by ~301,000 votes), Auditor (by ~205,000 votes), and Agriculture Commissioner (by ~276,000 votes)


I suppose you could be entering "the golden age of Democratic rule", but it's more likely that you're not. Kentucky hasn't "turned blue".
While true, McConnell has similar unfavorable ratings to Bevin. That doesn't bode well for Moscow Mitch next year against American Hero Amy McGrath.
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Old 11-06-2019, 03:59 PM
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Kentucky Republicans are talking about nullifying the Governor's election and letting the Republican controlled legislature decide.
https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...s/4174103002/?
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:02 PM
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So the Libertarians pulled 2% of the Kentucky gubernatorial vote which is way more than the margin of victory for the Dems. Strange to see the Libertarian party actually affect something.
This was their statement following the election:
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In an ideal world, we elect Libertarian candidates and advance liberty. Failing that, we push mainstream candidates towards liberty to advance the cause.

But if we can’t do those things, we are always happy to split the vote in a way that causes delicious tears. Tonight there are plenty of delicious tears from Bevin supporters.

Had Matt Bevin not ditched his liberty Lt Governor for a Mitch McConnell picked anti liberty, corrupt running mate who has tried to eliminate Kentuckians jury trial rights, had Matt Bevin not presided over a huge sales tax increase, had Matt Bevin supported any of our key issues on criminal justice reform, marijuana legalization, expanded gaming, cutting taxes, or acted with the least bit of civility, we probably would not have run a candidate. Of course, he did the opposite. And here we are.

We split the vote. And we could not be more thrilled. If our friends in the major parties do not want this to happen again, they should think about passing ranked choice voting. And supporting our issues.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:05 PM
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While true, McConnell has similar unfavorable ratings to Bevin. That doesn't bode well for Moscow Mitch next year against American Hero Amy McGrath.
Just to throw some data at "similar", according to this, Bevin's approval ratings were 34% approve and 53% disapprove. That same polling outfit's Senate ratings show McConnell at 37% approve and 50% disapprove, so, maybe 6 points better than Bevin, who lost by less than 1%. Against a generic dem, McConnell is probably on track to win by 5%. I suppose your hope is that McGrath is going to significantly out-perform a generic dem. Maybe she will, I don't know, but the KY-6 voters didn't go for the "American Hero Amy McGrath in the 2018 "blue wave" election.

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Old 11-06-2019, 04:08 PM
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Not to rain on your parade (well, kind of), but I think you're reading far too much into this Kentucky win.

1) Kentucky has a long history of electing dems for governor (only 3 Republican governors in the last 70+ years)

2) Bevin's loss has far more to do with his own personal unpopularity than some party realignment in the suburbs. While Bevin was losing his race by ~5,000 votes, the Republican candidates were trouncing the dems in statewide races for Secretary of State (by ~65,000 votes), Attorney General (by ~221,000 votes), Treasurer (by ~301,000 votes), Auditor (by ~205,000 votes), and Agriculture Commissioner (by ~276,000 votes)


I suppose you could be entering "the golden age of Democratic rule", but it's more likely that you're not. Kentucky hasn't "turned blue".
To me what it indicates is that Trump has a very large stranglehold on the Republican party. If Bevin is so unpopular he should have lost the Republican primary. It’s similar to what happened in Alabama with Roy Moore. Trump was able to convince the Republicans to go with someone so far to the right that they lost the general election to a Democrat in a ruby red state.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:14 PM
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Kentucky Republicans are talking about nullifying the Governor's election and letting the Republican controlled legislature decide.
https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...s/4174103002/?
"Stivers said he thought Bevin’s speech declining to concede to Beshear was “appropriate.” He said believes most of the votes that went to Libertarian John Hicks, who received about 2% of the total vote, would have gone to Bevin and made him the clear winner."
Izzat so?
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:16 PM
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To me what it indicates is that Trump has a very large stranglehold on the Republican party. If Bevin is so unpopular he should have lost the Republican primary. It’s similar to what happened in Alabama with Roy Moore. Trump was able to convince the Republicans to go with someone so far to the right that they lost the general election to a Democrat in a ruby red state.
Maybe, but the Kentucky Republican party picked Bevin (albeit narrowly) way back in May of 2015. President Trump didn't even declare his candidacy until June. He didn't have anything like a "stranglehold" the first time Kentucky primary and general-election voters picked Bevin.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:18 PM
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Kentucky Republicans are talking about nullifying the Governor's election and letting the Republican controlled legislature decide.
https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...s/4174103002/?
Kind of reminds of when the liberals in Hollywood were begging Trump electors to do something similar.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:21 PM
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"Stivers said he thought Bevin’s speech declining to concede to Beshear was “appropriate.” He said believes most of the votes that went to Libertarian John Hicks, who received about 2% of the total vote, would have gone to Bevin and made him the clear winner."
Izzat so?
Probably. I'd say almost certainly. I think I've only ever known one guy who was essentially a Democrat but voted Libertarian and he's some Gary Johnson devotee.

But "This guy got the votes we wanted" doesn't make a race "Contested" and I think the largest hurdle for the state senate picking is that the race is unlikely to actually be contested if it's been recanvassed and potentially recounted and Beshear is still the winner by thousands of votes. At that point, you're not settling a contested race, you're just overthrowing the election.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:23 PM
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"If you took the votes away from that guy, and gave them to our guy instead" seems logical enough for today's Republican party.

Last edited by bobot; 11-06-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:24 PM
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Kind of reminds of when the liberals in Hollywood were begging Trump electors to do something similar.
Seems like there's a significant difference between a random person saying "Government person, overturn it for the love of humanity!" and the actual government person stroking his chin and saying "You know, we COULD just ignore the election and do this instead..."
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:27 PM
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It’s similar to what happened in Alabama with Roy Moore. Trump was able to convince the Republicans to go with someone so far to the right that they lost the general election to a Democrat in a ruby red state.
That is NOT why Roy Moore lost, because he was "too far to the right." It's because the optics of his past creepy sexual behavior were impossible to overcome. If that scandal hadn't come to light, he would have won.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:35 PM
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That is NOT why Roy Moore lost, because he was "too far to the right." It's because the optics of his past creepy sexual behavior were impossible to overcome. If that scandal hadn't come to light, he would have won.
The scandal came to light prior to the Republican primary, and prior to his being endorsed by Trump. It wasn’t an “October surprise”, it was well known in advance, with plenty of time to go in a different direction.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:51 PM
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True, but bear in mind that, up until the early 1960s, while much of the South was staunchly Democratic, many white Democrats from southern states were segregationists, who left the Democratic party for the GOP in the wake of Democratic support for integration and the civil rights movement.

What's relevant for a modern comparison is looking at the parties of Kentucky governors since 1970, though that still proves your point, since most have, in fact, been Democrats.
I agree, except you drew the line too early. I grew up in a Southern state, and I would say the switch from Democratic party to Republican was still ongoing into the early 2000s. There was a huge political/ideological realignment of the parties, which took a long time to fully happen.

Here is a list of House members who switched parties. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...itched_parties. Starting in the mid-20th Century, you can see a marked shift in Southern state representatives moving from Democrat to Republican, with many occurring into the early 2000s. I take pretty much any "It's been X-long since a Democrat . . ." whatever, in a Southern state as a fairly meaningless statement because of party realignments in the South.

Last edited by eschrodinger; 11-06-2019 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 11-06-2019, 04:54 PM
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Kind of reminds of when the liberals in Hollywood were begging Trump electors to do something similar.
The members of the state legislature are not electors.
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:05 PM
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Thanks for not fucking that up for once, Kentucky.
You're welcome!

-Superdude, Kentucky resident
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Old 11-06-2019, 06:36 PM
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Kind of reminds of when the liberals in Hollywood were begging Trump electors to do something similar.
Er, you seem to have confused the actor from the musical (whose name I don't recall offhand, but whom I stipulate may have been a "Hollywood liberal") with the actual Alexander Hamilton:

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Originally Posted by The Federalist Papers, #68
It was desirable that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the person to whom so important a trust was to be confided. This end will be answered by committing the right of making it, not to any preestablished body, but to men chosen by the people for the special purpose, and at the particular conjuncture.

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations....
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:04 PM
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To me what it indicates is that Trump has a very large stranglehold on the Republican party. If Bevin is so unpopular he should have lost the Republican primary. It’s similar to what happened in Alabama with Roy Moore. Trump was able to convince the Republicans to go with someone so far to the right that they lost the general election to a Democrat in a ruby red state.
Trump endorsed Roy Moore's opponent in the primary. Moore was a Trump-like candidate, and that may well have been why many Alabama Republicans voted for him, but Trump wasn't actually trying to convince them of any such thing. (He did, however, endorse Moore after he became the nominee.)

And the scandal absolutely was an October surprise, or at any rate a November one. There were, of course, people in Alabama who had firsthand knowledge that he had a creepy level of interest in young girls, and some of those people talked about it, but the Washington Post didn't officially break the story until November 9, well after the primary. Polling shows a strong swing toward Jones after the story broke, although there had certainly been fears among Republicans that Moore was too extreme to win before that (which is why Trump endorsed his opponent in the first place).

Not gonna argue against the idea that Trump has a stranglehold on the party, but the Alabama special election isn't the best example. If anything, it shows that an endorsement from Trump is not an especially powerful force, even in a very red state.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Fretful Porpentine View Post
Trump endorsed Roy Moore's opponent in the primary. Moore was a Trump-like candidate, and that may well have been why many Alabama Republicans voted for him, but Trump wasn't actually trying to convince them of any such thing. (He did, however, endorse Moore after he became the nominee.)

And the scandal absolutely was an October surprise, or at any rate a November one. There were, of course, people in Alabama who had firsthand knowledge that he had a creepy level of interest in young girls, and some of those people talked about it, but the Washington Post didn't officially break the story until November 9, well after the primary. Polling shows a strong swing toward Jones after the story broke, although there had certainly been fears among Republicans that Moore was too extreme to win before that (which is why Trump endorsed his opponent in the first place).

Not gonna argue against the idea that Trump has a stranglehold on the party, but the Alabama special election isn't the best example. If anything, it shows that an endorsement from Trump is not an especially powerful force, even in a very red state.
The Mandela effect must have hit me particularly hard in my recollection of how that race went down.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:27 PM
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The county council of Delaware County, Pennsylvania is 5-0 Democrat for the first time since the Civil War.
That is absolutely amazing. In 1955 my family moved from Philly to Delco. In those days the political power in a county government was a 3 man (okay, person, but they were all men) commission and each party was allowed to put up only two candidates. This guaranteed a minority voice on the commission, right? Not exactly. The Republican majority in Delco was so large that they could afford to have 15,000 Republicans register as Democrats and get to vote in Democratic primary for a DINO who was really a Republican and so there were never any real Dems on it. So now Delco is entirely Democrat and I think that's amazing.

I just googled it and discovered that the county chose this form of a 5 person council, the first county in PA to do so.
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:31 PM
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Not to rain on your parade (well, kind of), but I think you're reading far too much into this Kentucky win.

1) Kentucky has a long history of electing dems for governor (only 3 Republican governors in the last 70+ years)

2) Bevin's loss has far more to do with his own personal unpopularity than some party realignment in the suburbs. While Bevin was losing his race by ~5,000 votes, the Republican candidates were trouncing the dems in statewide races for Secretary of State (by ~65,000 votes), Attorney General (by ~221,000 votes), Treasurer (by ~301,000 votes), Auditor (by ~205,000 votes), and Agriculture Commissioner (by ~276,000 votes)


I suppose you could be entering "the golden age of Democratic rule", but it's more likely that you're not. Kentucky hasn't "turned blue".
Even more to that point ... I went to see how 2015 went down, hoping to see that at least the Ds had lost those races by smaller margins this time. Oops. Ds had won KY AG and SoS in 2015. Treasurer they lost by fewer ... so on. I'm having to conclude that this was more about a confluence of Bevin's unpopularity and Beshear's strength there. Yeah McConnell is similarly unpopular but is his competition as known and liked as Beshear is?
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Old 11-06-2019, 08:44 PM
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I have a question about what the Dems in VA will do after the census. Will they simply gerrymander the state to their own advantage, saying turnabout is fair play? What I hope they do is get together with the other party and amend the state constitution to ban the gerrymander. Although it sounds hard, PA apparently has something in its constitution that the state courts decided outlaws gerrymandering and the court actually had to redistrict since the Rep-controlled legislature was unable to do so.
  #45  
Old 11-06-2019, 09:07 PM
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Kind of reminds of when the liberals in Hollywood were begging Trump electors to do something similar.
And this reminds the rest of us why Whataboutism is the last refuge of those who cannot make a substantive contribution.
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Old 11-06-2019, 09:14 PM
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Kentucky Republicans are talking about nullifying the Governor's election and letting the Republican controlled legislature decide.
https://www.courier-journal.com/stor...s/4174103002/?
They can't just decide to do it; the Sec of State is a Democrat, and a tie-breaker, and has already suggested Bevin should concede.

A reminder of why "little" elections like Sec of State actually do matter.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:16 PM
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Apparently the Philadelphia city council has a seat reserved for a minority party. That minority party has been the Republicans for 70 years. In yesterday's election, the seat went to the Working Families Party.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:24 PM
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They can't just decide to do it; the Sec of State is a Democrat, and a tie-breaker, and has already suggested Bevin should concede.

A reminder of why "little" elections like Sec of State actually do matter.
A follow up..

I may be wrong (not familiar with KY law) but apparently Bevin believes he can kick it to the legislature if he can establish voter fraud or some cause. I think it still typically goes to the Sec of State, but what happens of the legislature refuses to accept certification, I don't know.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:35 PM
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Er, you seem to have confused the actor from the musical (whose name I don't recall offhand, but whom I stipulate may have been a "Hollywood liberal") with the actual Alexander Hamilton:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Papers, #68
It was desirable that the sense of the people should operate in the choice of the person to whom so important a trust was to be confided. This end will be answered by committing the right of making it, not to any preestablished body, but to men chosen by the people for the special purpose, and at the particular conjuncture.

It was equally desirable, that the immediate election should be made by men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice. A small number of persons, selected by their fellow-citizens from the general mass, will be most likely to possess the information and discernment requisite to such complicated investigations....
Hamilton was clearly a Never Trumper, and probably never was able to pork Cheryl Tiegs. Sad. People are saying that he was not that great.
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Old 11-06-2019, 10:48 PM
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Should the result hold up, the impact of Bashear getting elected may be fairly limited. The legislature is still held by Republicans, and I read that the Governor's veto can be overturned by a simply majority of legislators. I assume that the Kentucky legislature will follow the example of North Carolina when Roy Cooper was elected Governor and strip his office of as much power as they can.
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