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Old 11-07-2019, 11:35 AM
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A Ridesharing Service For Children - Economically, Legally Feasible?


Uber and Lyft do not allow unaccompanied minors, for a host of reasons. I imagine legal liability is at the top.

However, from where I sit, it seems a good business model. Many parents are stressed out getting their kids from here to there, and there are a lot of things that older kids need to do that they can handle on their own, but for their inability to drive or take public transportation there.

I know that, when I was in a volunteer capacity where I'd have to be around children under the age of 18, I was fingerprinted and underwent a background check first. I see no reason why a rideshare service can't do the same to their drivers. Similarly, cameras that record the interiors of cars can be had reasonably cheaply; again, no reason not to require drivers to have those.

Is the potential for legal liability so high here that such a service just wouldn't work?
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:42 AM
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There are at least 4 such services, reviewed here: https://therideshareguy.com/top-ride...apps-for-kids/
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by HeyHomie View Post
Uber and Lyft do not allow unaccompanied minors, for a host of reasons. I imagine legal liability is at the top.

However, from where I sit, it seems a good business model. Many parents are stressed out getting their kids from here to there, and there are a lot of things that older kids need to do that they can handle on their own, but for their inability to drive or take public transportation there.

I know that, when I was in a volunteer capacity where I'd have to be around children under the age of 18, I was fingerprinted and underwent a background check first. I see no reason why a rideshare service can't do the same to their drivers. Similarly, cameras that record the interiors of cars can be had reasonably cheaply; again, no reason not to require drivers to have those.

Is the potential for legal liability so high here that such a service just wouldn't work?
one was a startup who decided they'd rather abandon ship than comply with states' vetting requirements.

you'd have to be nuts to send your kid off with some rando based on the dubious assurances of a startup.

maybe parents wouldn't be so "stressed out" if they didn't feel compelled to micromanage their kids entire lives down to the second?

Last edited by jz78817; 11-07-2019 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 12:16 PM
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Around here the schools sometimes use taxis to transport kids in special circumstances.

Of course, around here the taxi companies themselves are licensed, and drivers have to have a Chauffeur's license and no DUIs or DWIs, submit to a background check, and be fingerprinted, registered and have a photo ID. And both the companies and the drivers have to repeat the process at regular intervals.

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Originally Posted by HeyHomie
Is the potential for legal liability so high here that such a service just wouldn't work?
I suspect the taxi companies have MASSIVE insurance or bonds behind them if they get sued.
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:41 PM
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The business model isn't as good as it seems at first. You need a special pool of carefully vetted drivers to attract customers. Those more reliable drivers can usually find better jobs, so to attract them, you need to pay them more, relative to Lyft and Uber. The demand for your extra-special drivers is all concentrated in a very narrow window of time - right when school lets out but before parents get home from work. So you can only book those premium drivers on jobs for about two hours per day on weekdays. Lyft and Uber drivers can work 50 hours per week or more to make ends meet. If your premium drivers aren't earning enough to make it worthwhile, they will quit. Sure, your drivers can try the tactic of working for you at a premium during your prime hours and driving for Uber and Lyft during other hours but, if your drivers also drive for Uber and Lyft, it reduces your specialness and the premium that parents would be willing to pay. Uber and Lyft will siphon off the price-conscious, rule-bending segment of the market by providing lowest-bidder drivers to provide essentially the same service. None of rideshare-for-kids businesses is ever going to make more money than Lyft or Uber and there's a good chance that Lyft and Uber will never make any money. Good luck with that business.

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Around here the schools sometimes use taxis to transport kids in special circumstances.

Of course, around here the taxi companies themselves are licensed, and drivers have to have a Chauffeur's license and no DUIs or DWIs, submit to a background check, and be fingerprinted, registered and have a photo ID. And both the companies and the drivers have to repeat the process at regular intervals.

I suspect the taxi companies have MASSIVE insurance or bonds behind them if they get sued.
Historically, the way taxi companies dealt with liability was to be poor to sue and bankruptcy-remote from any company with a real asset. Each taxi was incorporated as a separate entity. This entity leases the car, the brand, and the medallion from another company or companies. It distributes its profits as soon as it earns them. If the cab driver got in a horrifying accident, the victim sued the taxi company and discovered it had less money than the methhead on the corner, who at least has $5 for his next hit.

States mandate bonds and insurance for drivers but those bonds are usually tiny relative to the liability a driver can cause. What the bonds really are is evidence that some insurance company looked at the driver and was willing to take at least a little risk on them. Different cities and states handle this differently though so your mileage may vary.
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:53 PM
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There is the question as to who is the other end of the trip. Suppose a kid gets dropped off at his destination and there is no one there? Or is the driver supposed to only drop the kid off if there is someone there to receive him?
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:10 PM
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Don't get into cars with strangers. Well, except these other strangers.

Does the OP have kids? I can't imagine ever sending a kid off with a rideshare service. If someone can make money off of that, I'd be surprised.
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:12 PM
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There's a rideshare that accepts unaccompanied minors around here, which has been going for a couple of years (so not that much less than Uber, really) and seems pretty stable.

However, children are not their primary market. Women are their primary market - it's an all-female service with a focus on safety. And the government infrastructure is their to make a "children" addon easy for them - there's a nationwide standard called the "Working with Children Check" which is pretty well respected, easy to get, and basically anyone whose job might ever involve talking to a child where their parents aren't there has one.

Given all these constraints, their facebook comments are about half "ZOMG they were so nice and caring, it's great to get a ride where you don't have to worry about safety issues" and half "ZOMG they're so freaking expensive". Because all these things come with a cost, obviously. And providing a premium service then targetting a market that has slightly less than average disposable income (mums with young kids) is a difficult business model to pull off
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:34 PM
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I get the desire to not be the one driving my kid to all of their zillion-and-one appointments. Boy howdy do I get it.

On the other hand there's no chance I'm putting my kid in a car with some rando that I hired off a phone app provided by your garden-variety bunch of amoral tech-bro startup sociopaths.
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:23 PM
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You could call the business Free Candy, and have special vans.
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Old 11-07-2019, 04:42 PM
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I have known some people around here who have started just such a service. Mostly as was said, for picking kids up after school. Also many kids need rides to their clubs, sports, or dr. appointments.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:19 PM
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Does the OP have kids? I can't imagine ever sending a kid off with a rideshare service. If someone can make money off of that, I'd be surprised.
I have kids and while they are too young right now for this, there are probably a good 4+ years where I'd be comfortable with them traveling somewhere without direct parental or in-loco-parental supervision, but they're too young to drive themselves.

I mean, I rode the bus and my bicycle all over town as a 13-year-old. Pretty sure I could have taken a taxi too if we had been rich.

Hell, based on the general quality of teenage drivers, I'd rather they take a taxi than drive themselves even from 16-18.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:29 PM
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ETA: Sorry, ended up double posting due to board error.

Last edited by iamthewalrus(:3=; 11-07-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:16 PM
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There are a number of such services here. My son's school is 20 miles or so from where we live. I actively researching companies that could handle the transportation for us. For now, we're managing with help from an afternoon car pool.

It isn't really an Uber model though. I can't just call up and get a car at my house in 15 minutes. It's more of a contracted service, like all rides to school, or every Thursday to voice class or what have you. It's not, I don't think, intended for spur of the moment needs.
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Old 11-07-2019, 07:20 PM
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Uber may have tried it IIRC. But back in the 1970's it was not uncommon for kids to take a cab back home from school if thye had to leave early.
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Old 11-08-2019, 01:47 AM
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I looked into something like this years ago, in the hopes that I could quit my job and drive kids around, including my kids. I looked into it pretty thoroughly, trying to imagine everything that could go wrong with this business model.

And there was so much.

At the time, there was no Uber/Lyft so I wasn't calling it "ride-sharing." Among the factors were vehicle reliability, driver reliability (I was pretty reliable, but this wasn't going to work if it was just me, one of my issues was one kid's one place, another's somewhere else, usually a 30-minute drive away and they both get out at the same time), availabiility of insurance--not at all a sure thing and, you guessed it, what if the driver took a child from, say, baseball to home, and there was nobody at home? What happens if there's a wreck, if bad weather cancels whatever you're taking the kid to, if the kid gets sick, if you screw up scheduling and forget to pick somebody up...

Too much. Looked like the only way to do this was to get other parents to share costs and have one parent, someone whose kid went to your kid's school, drive to some common after-school activity. Or have the after-school activity provide a bus (like some day cares).

In other words, I thought it could work, and could eventually prove profitable, but it didn't look like something that could provide a full-time paycheck immediately, and I needed that. It also looked like something with a hell of a lot of upfront costs, and I didn't need that, and that would have gotten me even further from profitability.
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:54 AM
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On the other hand there's no chance I'm putting my kid in a car with some rando that I hired off a phone app provided by your garden-variety bunch of amoral tech-bro startup sociopaths.
^^^THIS 100%

I'm not a helicopter dad but this is really what we're talking about here. Although this quote made me laugh, it boils down the reality of the idea perfectly.
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Old 11-08-2019, 09:17 AM
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You guys nuts? Couple of years ago, a poster on this board called the cops on a guy, with kids in a public park for just talking to kids.
These days, with the kind of hysteria we have, the only one who would want to work in a job with kids are i) Pedos and ii) very dumb masochists, neither of whom you want around any children.

Maybe you could get Prisoners of War to do it?
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Old 11-08-2019, 10:54 AM
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I don't think people are talking about very young children. Generally, with very young children you have to stay with them anyway--you don't just dump a 7 year old off at practice or a birthday party or whatever, you stay there, mostly because it's hard to supervise a room full of 7 year old kids and it's preferable to have many adults. Someone may make arrangements in advance not to stay, but generally speaking you want a pretty high adult/child ratio. Ride sharing for kids would be more for the 12-18 set, who can't drive themselves but who are pretty competent and responsible.

When I was in high school, probably half the kids had cars, as much for their parent's convenience as anything. With the cost of cars and insurance for teens today, you could uber a LOT before a car became more practical. I was tutoring a group of students in Chicago Saturday, at a charter school. There were a couple hundred kids all released at once, and I saw a bunch get into ubers. Technically, I think that's against policy, but it was clearly very expected. I'd be comfortable letting a high school kid ride in a local uber. I am not sure about a middle-schooler.
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Old 11-08-2019, 11:03 AM
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Whatever their stated policy, plenty of teenagers take Uber unaccompanied. I've never heard of a kid being refused a ride.
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Old 11-08-2019, 12:57 PM
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Whatever their stated policy, plenty of teenagers take Uber unaccompanied. I've never heard of a kid being refused a ride.
I've stated this before and people argue about it, but Uber and Lyft turn a blind eye to picking up kids. I used to drive for both of them and Uber and Lyft had to be aware that there were always several Lyfts and Ubers at every school, every day at opening and closing times. I had many kids just come up to the car, tell me there name and ask if I was their driver. I'm talking kids as young as 12, that is scary.

As an driver for Uber and Lyft you do not get paid to drive a couple of miles to pick someone up and not give them a ride. And even if you did, the only rides you would get after turning down a kid would be another kid from the same school.

Last edited by Si Amigo; 11-08-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:34 PM
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For a board devoted to fighting ignorance, the amount of "stranger danger" on display here is disheartening.

Violence against children from random strangers is absurdly unlikely. It's astronomically rare.

The fact that a kid is riding in a car, one of the most dangerous activities we regularly perform, is tens of thousands of times more dangerous than the fact that someone they don't know personally is driving that car.

The average 12-year old is perfectly capable of taking a taxi, an Uber, a bus, a subway, or walking somewhere on their own, and doing so is not a dangerous activity.
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:55 PM
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For a board devoted to fighting ignorance, the amount of "stranger danger" on display here is disheartening.

Violence against children from random strangers is absurdly unlikely. It's astronomically rare.

The fact that a kid is riding in a car, one of the most dangerous activities we regularly perform, is tens of thousands of times more dangerous than the fact that someone they don't know personally is driving that car.

The average 12-year old is perfectly capable of taking a taxi, an Uber, a bus, a subway, or walking somewhere on their own, and doing so is not a dangerous activity.
To be fair, a stranger who has sought out a job that gives them unmonitored time with kids is not a random stranger. On the other hand, a person that has had a background check and been vetted is also not a random stranger.

It also makes a huge different whether you assume 6-year old or 12-year old. I'm a lot more likely to send a kid with a phone out in the world without a trusted adult. It's not just about being assaulted--it's being able to handle it if something goes wrong, from a flat tire to the driver's phone dying and his losing the address to my kid getting sick and throwing up.
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Old 11-08-2019, 03:34 PM
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I think the problem in the OP is "rideshare". My kids are grown, but I never would have put them as kids in an Uber or Lyft. Not because I have something against apps ( because I don't) but because as far as I can tell, Uber and Lyft exist to make money without having any responsibility - they treat the drivers as independent contractors rather than employees whenever possible. I have no reason to think anybody at Uber has met any of the drivers, or knows enough/even has the ability to prevent a particular driver* from being assigned to pick up a kid. There are other means of getting kids around- I know afterschool centers that pick up kids from school , and regular car services will pick up those under 18 (probably not 6 year olds, but they will pick up 12 year olds) and there are even app based services like zum that specifically exist to transport kids and conduct background checks on their drivers. Zum actually requires that drivers have experience working with children






* The owner/manager/dispatcher of a small local car service know their drivers and has the ability to keep problematic drivers from being assigned to pick up kids. And I don't mean necessarily drivers with a history of molesting kids- if I'm having a car pick up my kid from school, I want someone who will reliably be there on time, not ten minutes late.
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:14 PM
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To be fair, a stranger who has sought out a job that gives them unmonitored time with kids is not a random stranger.
True, but there are existing procedures for vetting people who work with kids. And there are simple technical solutions like cameras to solve the "unmonitored" part. The impression I'm getting from some here is that it's totally crazy to consider this because child molesters.

Which means it probably is totally crazy to consider because people have an unreasonable fear of child molesters.

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It also makes a huge different whether you assume 6-year old or 12-year old.
That's true, and I have been quite clear that I'm talking about kids that are capable of taking the bus or walking 10 minutes home from school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doreen
And I don't mean necessarily drivers with a history of molesting kids- if I'm having a car pick up my kid from school, I want someone who will reliably be there on time, not ten minutes late.
This seems like more unnecessary worrying. Of all the times I might hire a car, the one I'm least worried about being a few minutes late would be picking my kid up from school. Are they going to miss an important appointment?

I can remember plenty of times I had to wait at school because my parents got stuck in traffic or incorrectly thought that I had cross country practice after school or whatever. I sat around in the library and waited. Schools already have a pretty good system for this. For any reasonably-sized school it's probably a rare day that every kid is picked up within 10 minutes of school letting out.
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Old 11-08-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3= View Post
For a board devoted to fighting ignorance, the amount of "stranger danger" on display here is disheartening.

Violence against children from random strangers is absurdly unlikely. It's astronomically rare.

The fact that a kid is riding in a car, one of the most dangerous activities we regularly perform, is tens of thousands of times more dangerous than the fact that someone they don't know personally is driving that car.

The average 12-year old is perfectly capable of taking a taxi, an Uber, a bus, a subway, or walking somewhere on their own, and doing so is not a dangerous activity.
QFT. In fact, an adolescent may well be safer being picked up by an Uber driver than a parent, if we can assume that people who drive cars for a living are safer than the average driver.

The fact that a large share of Uber drivers are non white might have something to do with the apprehension that people express toward using them, even if it's subconscious bias.

Last edited by zimaane; 11-08-2019 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 06:57 PM
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This seems like more unnecessary worrying. Of all the times I might hire a car, the one I'm least worried about being a few minutes late would be picking my kid up from school. Are they going to miss an important appointment?
Maybe - you know, it's not unheard of kids to have appointments afterschool. But mostly because when my kids went to school, the teacher had to wait with kids below 6th grade who weren't picked up and I wouldn't want to do that to the teacher. It's not always about fear- sometimes it's about consideration for other people.

If you were able to sit around in the library to wait, you went to a very different school that any of those my kids or I went to - at those schools, when the school day was over you left unless you had an afterschool activity. And the teachers left unless they had an afterschool activity. So yeah, in the case of kids young enough to need to be picked up , pretty much every day every kid was picked up within five minutes of dismissal.

Although you might be talking about kids who are capable of walking or taking the bus home, I am left to wonder why I would be paying for any sort of car to pick up a kid who can walk or take the bus home. The only reasons I can see to use an Uber/Lyft/cab would be 1) to get a kid who can't walk or take the bus to someone who can't pick them up - maybe my 7 year old is going to stay at my sister's house after school but it's difficult for my sister to do the pickup because she has three preschool aged kids or 2) to get a kid who can normally walk or take the bus to a place where walking or taking the bus isn't feasible like a dance class or Grandma's house.

Last edited by doreen; 11-08-2019 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:28 PM
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In his autobiography, singer/guitarist Bob Mould said that when he and his siblings were small children in the early 1960s, their mother had a job but could not drive due to medical issues and his father was usually drunk, so she would often call a cab and put these 3 or 4 small children in it to take them to the babysitter, and give the money to the oldest child.

I was surprised that they would do this, even back then, but this was in the days before mandatory car seats as well.
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Old 11-08-2019, 07:36 PM
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Maybe - you know, it's not unheard of kids to have appointments afterschool. But mostly because when my kids went to school, the teacher had to wait with kids below 6th grade who weren't picked up and I wouldn't want to do that to the teacher. It's not always about fear- sometimes it's about consideration for other people.
Apologies for the misinterpretation.

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If you were able to sit around in the library to wait, you went to a very different school that any of those my kids or I went to - at those schools, when the school day was over you left unless you had an afterschool activity. And the teachers left unless they had an afterschool activity. So yeah, in the case of kids young enough to need to be picked up , pretty much every day every kid was picked up within five minutes of dismissal.
It's been a while so my memory is not perfect, but my recollection for elementary school is that there was someone in authority (a teacher or administrator) out in front of the school for maybe 10 minutes after school let out, mostly just to maintain basic order and keep the masses of children from surging into traffic in their post-educational glee. And then after that ten minutes if you were still standing there waiting for a pickup, then you would be corralled inside, could use the phone in the office to call your parents, etc. Presumably at some point the authorities would have been called if they couldn't reach anyone on your contact card.

I am impressed that every kid is picked up within 5 minutes of school being let out. Perhaps it's a much smaller school? My elementary school was ~400 students and my middle school was around 800 I think? Even a really reliable driver ends up stuck in traffic once or twice a year. Which is going to equate to someone being late to pick their kid up just about every day.

Waiting in the library was something that happened at middle school. And I'm pretty sure the library was just open for an hour after school for library-access related reasons like people going to find books and do research for school, so it wasn't a burden on anyone.

My general point is that there's often someone around a school for a while after it lets out, and while you shouldn't take advantage of that, it's generally not a big deal for a few kids to have to wait in the office or something for 10 or 20 minutes if their ride gets held up.

I will note that my parents (who were very conscientious!) did forget me at school for an hour once, a thing that app driven car-hire seems very unlikely to do.

Quote:
Although you might be talking about kids who are capable of walking or taking the bus home, I am left to wonder why I would be paying for any sort of car to pick up a kid who can walk or take the bus home.
What I meant by that is kids who would be old enough to take the bus or walk home. I'm assuming that most kids who get picked up by hired car are from fairly wealthy families because hired cars aren't cheap, and they do so either because the kid lives too far away to walk or the buses don't go there, or maybe special circumstances like the ones you mentioned.

My point is just that kids who are old enough to generally travel known routes by themselves (and I'm generalizing that to be about age 12 and up) by foot or public transit can also safely take an Uber and we shouldn't freak out about it.
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Old 11-08-2019, 08:44 PM
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I am impressed that every kid is picked up within 5 minutes of school being let out. Perhaps it's a much smaller school? My elementary school was ~400 students and my middle school was around 800 I think? Even a really reliable driver ends up stuck in traffic once or twice a year. Which is going to equate to someone being late to pick their kid up just about every day.
When my kids were in grade school there were about 300 kids, when I went it was about 800. But it was the type of neighborhood where everyone was within walking distance ( the furthest was less than a mile) and even those who drove only had a very short drive -like 5 minutes on streets where you wouldn't get stuck in traffic. It's kind of difficult to blame being 10 or 20 minutes late on traffic when you don't even live a mile away.

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My point is just that kids who are old enough to generally travel known routes by themselves (and I'm generalizing that to be about age 12 and up) by foot or public transit can also safely take an Uber and we shouldn't freak out about it.
I agree- but I don't think there are actually many people who would allow a 12+ year old to take a public bus but not an Uber. I suspect that most people who wouldn't let a 12 year old take an Uber probably also wouldn't let the 12 year old take a bus. You'd be surprised at how many people I know, even in NYC , who drove their kids to high school or made then attend the one in the neighborhood .

Last edited by doreen; 11-08-2019 at 08:47 PM.
  #31  
Old 11-09-2019, 07:44 AM
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However, from where I sit, it seems a good business model.
It's not clear that Uber or Lyft are good business models. I'm not sure this one would be better.
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Old 11-09-2019, 08:02 AM
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There is the question as to who is the other end of the trip. Suppose a kid gets dropped off at his destination and there is no one there? Or is the driver supposed to only drop the kid off if there is someone there to receive him?
Or the parent asks their kid be taken to 123 Elm Street, when they really meant 123 Elm Road. Driver arrives and kid has no idea where he is. Meanwhile, driver is trying to make his rent and has another rider he can pick up.
  #33  
Old 11-11-2019, 11:51 AM
iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
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Originally Posted by doreen View Post
When my kids were in grade school there were about 300 kids, when I went it was about 800. But it was the type of neighborhood where everyone was within walking distance ( the furthest was less than a mile) and even those who drove only had a very short drive -like 5 minutes on streets where you wouldn't get stuck in traffic. It's kind of difficult to blame being 10 or 20 minutes late on traffic when you don't even live a mile away.
Yeah, I expect that's pretty common for elementary schools. But even then, it's really hard to always show up on time to something, even if you're pretty close. Car batteries last maybe 5 years or so, so once every 1500 days, I'm very late to somewhere because the car doesn't start. Sometimes the baby has a major poop-related catastrophe right before you put her in the car. Or a sibling broke an arm and had to go to the hospital. Or you get in a fender bender on the way to school. Or whatever.

And I'm sure there are parents like my dad, who (half the time) were driving all the way across town to pick me up because after a divorce both parents didn't live in the same school district.

I don't doubt that 99% of parents are there every day within 5 minutes, but it only takes one being late a day for the school to have to have a procedure in place to handle it. And my impression is that they all do and it's regularly employed in any school with hundreds of students.
  #34  
Old 11-11-2019, 01:32 PM
doreen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3= View Post
I don't doubt that 99% of parents are there every day within 5 minutes, but it only takes one being late a day for the school to have to have a procedure in place to handle it. And my impression is that they all do and it's regularly employed in any school with hundreds of students.
Yes, and as I said in an earlier post, the procedure was the teacher stayed until the kid was picked up when she could otherwise have left.* Which is the reason I said I'd wouldn't want a driver to be ten minutes late to pick my kid up from school.





* I assume if it got be be too long, the police or CPS would have been called but I don't know of that actually happening.
  #35  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:11 PM
Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Originally Posted by Ruken View Post
It's not clear that Uber or Lyft are good business models. I'm not sure this one would be better.
Well, that depends on what your definition of "good business model" is. Making a profit is apparently optional these days.
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  #36  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:55 PM
iamthewalrus(:3= is offline
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Originally Posted by doreen View Post
Yes, and as I said in an earlier post, the procedure was the teacher stayed until the kid was picked up when she could otherwise have left.*
Right, I get that. I just don't see it as a huge imposition. Like, there was always a teacher or two who had something to do in their classroom after school, and they rotated who was going to stay slightly late and while it's technically true that if everyone were on time then those one or two people could have left right at 3:05pm, the system was set up so that there was someone who could do some useful work for a half-hour or so because, well, people are late sometimes.

Teachers almost always have to do some lesson plan or grading prep work outside of normal school hours and once or twice a week they'll plan to do a little of that with one or two kids hanging out in their classroom waiting for a pickup.

None of this is to say that you should abuse the system by regularly showing up late, or that timeliness isn't important in a hired car. But it's not especially important when picking up kids from school. It's just important in the normal way that you shouldn't be habitually late to things because it wastes other people's time, but we all accept that sometimes the unexpected happens and it's not really a big deal.

Anyway, I think we have both made our point here.
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