#101  
Old 11-08-2019, 07:20 PM
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Is that an unmitigated good thing? Let's ask the Japanese...
Now that's an interesting choice. I'd probably prefer to ask those at the sharp end of infant mortality improvements but.......

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Is that rise out of poverty directly correlated with an increase in ecological footprint?
hard choice isnt it? I'll let you tell the world's poor that improvement in their living conditions will have to wait.

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Not seeing it...
I can help
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  #102  
Old 11-08-2019, 07:38 PM
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Or maybe, just maybe, they're saying "FFS, why do you think you're so unique and special that you're the only jeenyus who's ever made these same tired arguments that I've had to listen to over and over and over for decades because people with your privilege are absolutely convinced that everyone is required and wants to listen to them?" When someone is just done and fed up with talking about a subject, they shut down and refuse to engage any more. This is a trauma response. Maybe if you hear "Okay boomer" really often you might consider shutting up and listening for a while? It won't kill you, it really won't.
If, after saying "OK Boomer", you are going to say something worth listening to that you think it is worth the other side hearing....why not start with the actual meat of your argument instead? You think they are more likely to listen with an open mind after you've insulted them?

There is a world of difference between shutting down an argument because of the quality of what's being said, and shutting it down just because of who is saying it. An argument isn't crap based on the number of times it is repeated nor on the age of the person who says it. It becomes crap based on the solidity of the reasoning and the evidence. You listen and you explore and you counter and you learn.

The phrase "OK Boomer" strongly implies prejudice and a closed mind, as do terms such as "snowflake". First you label the group then you can label any argument that comes from them and that's a terrible was to progress.
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  #103  
Old 11-08-2019, 08:18 PM
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Maybe if you hear "Okay boomer" really often you might consider shutting up and listening for a while? It won't kill you, it really won't.
You think that "OK boomer" is going to make anyone listen?

It doesn't especially bother me, any more than "snowflake" accusations do. When it's used in response to whinging about millennials, or other patronizing generational bullshit, it's a snappy clapback.

But in other contexts, it just makes me think the person using it isn't very good at political analysis.

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  #104  
Old 11-08-2019, 08:49 PM
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You think that "OK boomer" is going to make anyone listen?

It doesn't especially bother me, any more than "snowflake" accusations do. When it's used in response to whinging about millennials, or other patronizing generational bullshit, it's a snappy clapback.

But in other contexts, it just makes me think the person using it isn't very good at political analysis.
Very well said. Since this has started to pop up in my various feeds itís been mostly the later and rarely the former.
  #105  
Old 11-08-2019, 09:01 PM
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Very well said. Since this has started to pop up in my various feeds itís been mostly the later and rarely the former.
Almost all of what I've seen has been people arguing over it, like this thread. Much fun.
  #106  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:08 AM
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Very well said. Since this has started to pop up in my various feeds it’s been mostly the later and rarely the former.
Exactly. The vast majority of seeing this on social media has been as a clapback to those who sneer at snowflakes or millennials (and has usually been a hilarious clapback at that - someone called me a 'libtard' the other week to my face and I wish I knew about 'Ok, Boomer'). And then those being clapbacked not responding well to getting a taste of their own medicine.

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  #107  
Old 11-09-2019, 05:24 AM
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Now that's an interesting choice. I'd probably prefer to ask those at the sharp end of infant mortality improvements but.......
"...that's not where the negative aspects lie." Yes, I can see wanting to avoid that.
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hard choice isnt it? I'll let you tell the world's poor that improvement in their living conditions will have to wait.
False dichotomy. Improvements in their living conditions along sustainable lines are certainly possible. They're just not being done.

Instead, they get McDs and petrol cars and consumerist propoganda disguised as entertainment.
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And I should care about a graph that ends just before the current authoritarian rise, because...?
  #108  
Old 11-09-2019, 05:45 AM
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No worries, it's pretty much a US thing. I just thought more people might get it. Seems only a few of us do.

"Boomer Sooner" is the fight song for the University of Oklahoma. It's common for one alumni to shout "Boomer!" and another to respond "Sooner!". Finally, OK is the two letter abbreviation for Oklahoma, so that's how I make the connection.
That actually makes sense!

Well, that's one tiny mystery solved this week then

(now back to your regular scheduled griping about those weird not-us folks who are terrible in not-us kind of ways, particularly the awful way they think that they're the 'us' and we're the not-us. Can you imagine!)
  #109  
Old 11-09-2019, 06:08 AM
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That is possibly the least self-aware thing I've ever read.
You ain't wrong. It pretty much begs to be replied to with "OK boomer ".

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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness
You think that "OK boomer" is going to make anyone listen?
That's wildly not the point. The point is giving up trying to explain anything to somebody who just won't listen anyway.
  #110  
Old 11-09-2019, 07:39 AM
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"...that's not where the negative aspects lie." Yes, I can see wanting to avoid that.
What negative aspects did you highlight? I'm assuming you agree that my clearly stated positive aspect is a good thing?

I've been consistent in what I've said. There is no blanket improvement in every way in every place in every situation. I think the improvements in infant mortality are a good thing. If you think increasing life expectancy in Japan is a bad thing and it outweighs the former then.....OK. We clearly disagree. I think, seeing as you haven't said what the problem is with Japanese life expectancies it is hard to know.

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False dichotomy. Improvements in their living conditions along sustainable lines are certainly possible. They're just not being done.
Instead, they get McDs and petrol cars and consumerist propoganda disguised as entertainment.
I see, they have to run their desires through you first.....gotcha. You are wise enough to know what is good for them. You missed your calling with the British Empire.

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And I should care about a graph that ends just before the current authoritarian rise, because...?
because it covers the post-war period that I'e referring to and it shows that gradual upward curve. If there was a catastrophic dip in world democracy post 2003 then absolutely that would be a terrible thing but........good news........it doesn't seem to be the case.
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  #111  
Old 11-09-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Novelty Bobble View Post
What negative aspects did you highlight? I'm assuming you agree that my clearly stated positive aspect is a good thing?

I've been consistent in what I've said. There is no blanket improvement in every way in every place in every situation. I think the improvements in infant mortality are a good thing. If you think increasing life expectancy in Japan is a bad thing and it outweighs the former then.....OK. We clearly disagree. I think, seeing as you haven't said what the problem is with Japanese life expectancies it is hard to know.

I see, they have to run their desires through you first.....gotcha. You are wise enough to know what is good for them. You missed your calling with the British Empire.

because it covers the post-war period that I'e referring to and it shows that gradual upward curve. If there was a catastrophic dip in world democracy post 2003 then absolutely that would be a terrible thing but........good news........it doesn't seem to be the case.
So? Bolsonaro was elected. Trump was elected. Erdogan was elected. Duda was elected. McConnell, Wilders, Le Pen, etc. all were elected. All of those legislators in southern states who are trampling all over the rights of women and minorities were elected. Elected by scared old people (Boomers in the US) who will vote for anyone who looks "strong," promises to get rid of anything they don't like and promises to protect them from their own shadows.

Nothing about democracy prevents an authoritarian from gaining power.
  #112  
Old 11-09-2019, 07:54 AM
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OK bummer.
  #113  
Old 11-09-2019, 08:08 AM
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So? Bolsonaro was elected. Trump was elected. Erdogan was elected. Duda was elected. McConnell, Wilders, Le Pen, etc. all were elected. All of those legislators in southern states who are trampling all over the rights of women and minorities were elected. Elected by scared old people (Boomers in the US) who will vote for anyone who looks "strong," promises to get rid of anything they don't like and promises to protect them from their own shadows.

Nothing about democracy prevents an authoritarian from gaining power.
Absolutely, it is the means of getting aresholes into power and the means of booting them out too.

Is democracy only a good thing when it guarantees electing a person you approve of? As has often been repeated, democracy is the worst system of government apart from all the rest.

Would we be better off rolling back the clock to a point when democracy was the exception?
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  #114  
Old 11-09-2019, 08:14 AM
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it doesn't seem to be the case.[/URL]
That graph is odd, firstly using a strict number of democrocies vs number of autocracies, presumably completely ignoring population sizes and impact. Also they consider there was exactly 1 democracy in 1900! Whatever figures they're using I don't trust them.
  #115  
Old 11-09-2019, 08:36 AM
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That's wildly not the point. The point is giving up trying to explain anything to somebody who just won't listen anyway.
Sure, kid.
  #116  
Old 11-09-2019, 09:37 AM
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That graph is odd, firstly using a strict number of democrocies vs number of autocracies, presumably completely ignoring population sizes and impact. Also they consider there was exactly 1 democracy in 1900! Whatever figures they're using I don't trust them.
more data for you

I suggested that democracy has increased overall since the war. The figures seem to bear me out.

As for the orginal chart you commented on, there is a button to click on there that gives the source of the data and also there is a other chart that shows the share of world population living in democracies.
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  #117  
Old 11-09-2019, 10:52 AM
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Sure, kid.
I'm not a kid, son.
  #118  
Old 11-09-2019, 11:17 AM
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I'm not a kid, son.
Whatever you say, sweetie.
  #119  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:26 PM
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A ton of links in this article.
  #120  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:36 PM
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What negative aspects did you highlight?
Do I really need to explain to you what the negative aspects of longer life expectancy are for countries that are past the demographic transition, of which Japan is the poster child? How an aging population puts a drain on services and the economy?
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I'm assuming you agree that my clearly stated positive aspect is a good thing?
Sure.
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I think, seeing as you haven't said what the problem is with Japanese life expectancies it is hard to know.
So coy.
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You missed your calling with the British Empire.
What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
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good news........it doesn't seem to be the case.
Perhaps you'd care to highlight where in that page it makes your case?

Noting that by decreased democracy, I'm including Philippines, Brazil etc, so we're not just talking "allowed to vote" as a criterion here.
  #121  
Old 11-09-2019, 12:53 PM
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You ain't wrong. It pretty much begs to be replied to with "OK boomer ".



That's wildly not the point. The point is giving up trying to explain anything to somebody who just won't listen anyway.
I am aware of that. The person I was responding to seemed to think that maybe it would make people listen, which is pretty weird.
  #122  
Old 11-09-2019, 01:12 PM
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All of them? You never met someone older than you and thought, "This guy is an idiot!"?
Sure. Pretty easy to ignore such a person, rather than to try to "one up" them with some insulting catchphrase. If it were someone I encountered regularly - in my family or social circle - I'd hope I could come up with a better way of dealing with them than thinking I were simultaneously insulting them and expressing my superiority.

Also, tho I do not always succeed, I like to think there is SOMETHING I can learn - even from idiots. Maybe an understanding of how someone might develop such views, an enhanced commitment that I not become like them...
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  #123  
Old 11-09-2019, 01:26 PM
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I am aware of that. The person I was responding to seemed to think that maybe it would make people listen, which is pretty weird.
I mean, I suppose in a sense it could be seen as a hopeful way to trigger self-awareness, in a "oh, wait, I dismiss millenials' opinions out of hand all the time ; in fact my dismissing what that person was saying is what led to their saying "OK Boomer" back at me and now that I'm dismissed out of hand I find that *really* irritating, maybe I should stop doing that ?".
But that's a really generous, almost naive take on it. Good if it does happen obviously, but much like any giving anyone a dose of their own medicine, it's hardly the expected result IMO (and, judging by the article linked upthread or many responses in this thread... yeah, no, they're still not getting it). The expected result is catharsis.

Last edited by Kobal2; 11-09-2019 at 01:27 PM.
  #124  
Old 11-09-2019, 01:43 PM
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"Okay, Boomer," like "DNFTT" and "NOT ALL MEN, OKAY?" are less about trying to get through to the clothhead it's directed towards and more about letting others around you know that's a place where all energy goes to die and if you're not interested in wasting effort on a hopeless cause then disengage and go elsewhere if you want productive discourse. I mean, you can spend endless energy on a hopeless cause or you can direct a lesser amount of energy into a cause where it will actually accomplish something--nobody's saying you're not allowed to waste your own time but a kind person will let you know just in case you're unaware you're tilting at a hopeless windmill.

Last edited by SmartAleq; 11-09-2019 at 01:44 PM.
  #125  
Old 11-09-2019, 01:47 PM
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I mean, I suppose in a sense it could be seen as a hopeful way to trigger self-awareness, in a "oh, wait, I dismiss millenials' opinions out of hand all the time ; in fact my dismissing what that person was saying is what led to their saying "OK Boomer" back at me and now that I'm dismissed out of hand I find that *really* irritating, maybe I should stop doing that ?".
But that's a really generous, almost naive take on it. Good if it does happen obviously, but much like any giving anyone a dose of their own medicine, it's hardly the expected result IMO (and, judging by the article linked upthread or many responses in this thread... yeah, no, they're still not getting it). The expected result is catharsis.
Agreed. At the point where you're dismissing someone so thoroughly, there's zero expectation that they'll start listening to you.

Whether folks are choosing that dismissal appropriately? My opinion neither stays consistent across all cases nor matters.
  #126  
Old 11-09-2019, 02:03 PM
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Whether folks are choosing that dismissal appropriately? My opinion neither stays consistent across all cases nor matters.
Well, sure. Absolute, sweeping value statements are more of a boomer thing anyway .

(yes, I am aware. That is, in fact, the joke.)
  #127  
Old 11-09-2019, 03:27 PM
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Do I really need to explain to you what the negative aspects of longer life expectancy are for countries that are past the demographic transition, of which Japan is the poster child? How an aging population puts a drain on services and the economy?
I see, oh sure. Increased life expectancy is not without its own challenges and what lovely challenges to have. Call me a psychopathic monster if you like but increasing the opportunity to live longer, healthier lives seems to be a good thing.

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What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
imposing on poor people what was considered "best" for them was a classic imperial mindset.

Quote:
Perhaps you'd care to highlight where in that page it makes your case?
You know how I said that democracy had increased since 1945? look at the graph in 1945, then look at the most recent figure. Which figure is higher? Stop me if I get too technical.

Quote:
Noting that by decreased democracy, I'm including Philippines, Brazil etc, so we're not just talking "allowed to vote" as a criterion here.
I'll be sure to make a note of this, and if I ever make the point that democracy is perfectly executed everywhere I'll be sure to bear it in mind.

Are you comparing the imperfect democracy in those countries now with the military dictatorships previously in place? Or are you just saying that the democratically elected leaders in those countries right now are sub-optimal compared to previously democratically elected leaders?
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  #128  
Old 11-09-2019, 08:39 PM
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Is "Fuck off, punk" an appropriate response to "Okay, boomer" ??
  #129  
Old 11-09-2019, 09:01 PM
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Granted, I'm just one Gen-X man, but the only time I see "Ok, Boomer" is self-congratulatory tweets and memes from Millennials about how mad it made everyone while I see zero significant outrage from from older people. By "significant", I mean actual people I see or interact with out in the world giving a fuck rather than "Here's a random weirdo out of the 500 bajillion people on Facebook who said a thing!"

I mean, you had a conservative radio host compare it to the "n-word" but hyperbolic outrage about liberal kids is pretty much the conservative radio host mission statement. And, today, I saw a Tweet circulated that people are saying "OMG old people are SO MAD that they're threatening to sue!" but, reading the email in question, it's just some lawyer fishing to have a story written about him.

I guess it's a nice ego boost for those high-fiving themselves over how they totally wrecked rich old people in between defaulting on their student loans and not affording a house.

Last edited by Jophiel; 11-09-2019 at 09:03 PM.
  #130  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:31 AM
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I see, oh sure. Increased life expectancy is not without its own challenges and what lovely challenges to have. Call me a psychopathic monster if you like but increasing the opportunity to live longer, healthier lives seems to be a good thing.
Just longer. Healthier would require nursing and other care. Which they'll get where?
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imposing on poor people what was considered "best" for them was a classic imperial mindset.
You can, of course, cite where I've said anything about "imposing"...?
Quote:
You know how I said that democracy had increased since 1945? look at the graph in 1945, then look at the most recent figure. Which figure is higher? Stop me if I get too technical.
Aah, I see.

You're naive enough to equate "number of democracies" with "democracy"

Let's just say I disagree.
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I'll be sure to make a note of this, and if I ever make the point that democracy is perfectly executed everywhere I'll be sure to bear it in mind.
But this is the point you make when you say "democracy" is increasing. If more and more democratic governments are, in fact, bad at democracy, then it's disingenuous to claim "democracy" is increasing. It is not.
Quote:

Are you comparing the imperfect democracy in those countries now with the military dictatorships previously in place? Or are you just saying that the democratically elected leaders in those countries right now are sub-optimal compared to previously democratically elected leaders?
I'm just comparing them to their immediate predecessors. Since that's all that's relevant to the Millennials (remember them?) who are seeing a decrease in democracy now.

Possibly, also, Millenials are capable of seeing a curve and realising it could as easily be sigmoidal as exponential.

Also, possibly, Millenials aren't interested in softballing shitty mass-murdering near-autocracies like the Duterte government (led by an actual admitted murderer) as merely "sub-optimal".
  #131  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:34 AM
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I guess it's a nice ego boost for those high-fiving themselves over how they totally wrecked rich old people in between defaulting on their student loans and not affording a house.
Well, given that the nationwide student debt crisis and housing affordability crisis are almost entirely due to the acts and choices of the older generations rather than those of the young people currently coping with them, I guess we're kind of lucky that the millennials are willing to settle for "wrecking" the rich old people with sarcastic clapbacks rather than with torches and pitchforks.
  #132  
Old 11-10-2019, 06:46 AM
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Just longer. Healthier would require nursing and other care. Which they'll get where?
I'm not for keeping people alive at all costs. Quality of life matters (another advancement since the war) and I'd also be in favour of giving people choice of when and how they die. I'd not be in favour of imposing it, nor would I be in favour of throttling the research into, or provision of, end-of-life treatments just because the increased lifespan will also increase demand for nursing care.

Medical advancements since the war have been nothing short of miraculous. The upshot of that is that, globally, lifespans have increased and a lot of that is due to infant mortality decreasing, I would be very suspicious of anyone who complained about that because it'd risk the jobs of child grave-diggers. Let's reap the benefits and adjust to the demographic and societal demands.

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You can, of course, cite where I've said anything about "imposing"...?
no, you didn't use that word but you certainly were dismissive when imagining the things that you have potentially being something that the poor of the world might aspire to.

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Aah, I see.

You're naive enough to equate "number of democracies" with "democracy"
I do equate increased numbers of democratic nations with increased democracy overall, yes.

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Let's just say I disagree.
Do you think the world is a less democratic place now overall than immediately after WW2?

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But this is the point you make when you say "democracy" is increasing. If more and more democratic governments are, in fact, bad at democracy, then it's disingenuous to claim "democracy" is increasing. It is not.
You are smart enough to know better than this. If the number of democratic nations increases greatly (which it has since the war), the number of people in good democratic systems increases and the number under bad democratic systems also increases, it is pretty much guaranteed.

In a reference back to the previous point we are likely to see an increase in the incidence of cancers and heart disease amongst developing nations.....care to guess why? It is because the opportunity for such age-based diseases will increased with an aging population. Likewise you will only get the opportunity for increased problematic demoracies by increasing the number of democracies.

Quote:
I'm just comparing them to their immediate predecessors. Since that's all that's relevant to the Millennials (remember them?) who are seeing a decrease in democracy now.
And yet all along.......clearly stated.....my point is that the world is more democratic now overall than immediately post war. If you are wanting to argue that it doesn't hold for certain limited situations in certain places then OK, but you are arguing aginst a claim I never made. It also means that I'd be justified in pointing to countries and areas of lowered pollution and increased animal conservation over the recent years and claim " there is no environmental problem".

Quote:
Possibly, also, Millenials are capable of seeing a curve and realising it could as easily be sigmoidal as exponential.
So they are clever enough to interpet and contemplate such a curve but at the same time unable to read off and compare values along it? And who suggested it would be exponential? you are pretty guaranteed a sigmoidal curve with wobbles in rise and also when it straightens off.

Quote:
Also, possibly, Millenials aren't interested in softballing shitty mass-murdering near-autocracies like the Duterte government (led by an actual admitted murderer) as merely "sub-optimal".
So don't. Call them out for what they are. You don't seem to credit the millienials with much intelligence I must say. I reckon they are well able to comprehend the global increase in democracy overall since the war and still be able to seperate that from "here are some places where it is not working" and where we need to work harder. The reason those places aren't working well is because people are trying to usurp democracy and that will sometimes happen, it is a feature not a bug. Absent democracy (even sub-optimal) Those countries would be in exactly the same or an even worse state of autocracy, dictatorship, theocracy etc. Democracy is a bullwark against those things not a guarantee, never has been.

"the price of liberty is eternal vigilence", not an uncommon phrase and something that the millenials seem to be adhering to.
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  #133  
Old 11-10-2019, 07:36 AM
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Is "Fuck off, punk" an appropriate response to "Okay, boomer" ??
Technically yes, I suppose. But your question misses the salient point, which is that boomers have been telling gen Xers, millenials and zoomers alike to fuck off over and over for the last 40 years or so.
Yes, yes, I know, #NotAllBoomers, attaboy. Still, that clip posted upthread of the Kiwi MP just breaks my fucking brains. She's evidently smart, she's making an important and cogent point on a serious topic in about the most formal setting there is or should be... and *still* some smug asshole is interrupting her to make light of her age ?! What the genuine fuck. How absolutely dare he, unironically.

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Originally Posted by Kimstu
Well, given that the nationwide student debt crisis and housing affordability crisis are almost entirely due to the acts and choices of the older generations rather than those of the young people currently coping with them, I guess we're kind of lucky that the millennials are willing to settle for "wrecking" the rich old people with sarcastic clapbacks rather than with torches and pitchforks.
I know, right ? I keep tellin' 'em, guillotines and gibbets but they're all like "OK, Jacobin". It's maddening.
  #134  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:08 AM
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Absolutely, it is the means of getting aresholes into power and the means of booting them out too.
Except said arseholes can do immense damage while in power e.g. Bolsonaro letting people torch the Amazon. Or move to consolidate their power and make it more difficult to boot them out e.g. Erdogan.
  #135  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:34 AM
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The upshot of that is that, globally, lifespans have increased and a lot of that is due to infant mortality decreasing
That's temporary - infant mortality generally is already low, and all the continued gains will be at the other end eventually.

Which is what Millenials are seeing - not only are the Boomers fucking everything up now, but they're also not having the decency to die off like they're supposed to. So they'll continue fucking things up for years to come.
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no, you didn't use that word
Enough said.

I wasn't dismissive, by the way - like I said, I'm perfectly aware of why they want what they want. It's hardly an informed choice, it's a Hobson's choice.
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I do equate increased numbers of democratic nations with increased democracy overall, yes.
That's hopelessly naive.
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Do you think the world is a less democratic place now overall than immediately after WW2?
No. But that's not the issue for Millennials, is it?
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You are smart enough to know better than this. If the number of democratic nations increases greatly (which it has since the war), the number of people in good democratic systems increases and the number under bad democratic systems also increases, it is pretty much guaranteed.
Not at all. If many of the new democracies added are, in fact, shitty democracies (which, quite frankly, many are) AND some of the previously OK democracies take a turn to the bad (which, again, is completely the case) then no, it is not guaranteed at all.
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In a reference back to the previous point we are likely to see an increase in the incidence of cancers and heart disease amongst developing nations.....care to guess why? It is because the opportunity for such age-based diseases will increased with an aging population.
...and the shitty lifestyle changes I already covered...
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Likewise you will only get the opportunity for increased problematic demoracies by increasing the number of democracies.
Are you serious? It's obvious you can also get the same increase just by previously good democracies going bad. Which definitely happens.
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And yet all along.......clearly stated.....my point is that the world is more democratic now overall than immediately post war.
And my point is that that's nice, but doesn't concern Millennials the way current trends do.
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It also means that I'd be justified in pointing to countries and areas of lowered pollution and increased animal conservation over the recent years and claim " there is no environmental problem".
Sure.

Good luck with that, though...the trend is definitely the other way.
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So they are clever enough to interpet and contemplate such a curve but at the same time unable to read off and compare values along it?
No, they're clever enough to know that past performance is no indicator of future developments.
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you are pretty guaranteed a sigmoidal curve with wobbles in rise and also when it straightens off.
You say this like the rise of an anti-democratic trend couldn't reverse the current trend.
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So don't. Call them out for what they are.
I have. You're the one who's used that phrasing.
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You don't seem to credit the millienials with much intelligence I must say.
I seem to be crediting them with more than you do - enough that I think the things they seem to consider really important matter most.
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The reason those places aren't working well is because people are trying to usurp democracy and that will sometimes happen, it is a feature not a bug.
Can't make a democracy omelette without murdering some political opponents, kind of thing? Maybe Millennials don't agree that that should be the price paid.
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Absent democracy (even sub-optimal) Those countries would be in exactly the same or an even worse state of autocracy, dictatorship, theocracy etc.
False dichotomy - the desired alternative to shitty democracies is better democracy, not no democracy. So when Millennials advocate for that, the proper response is "Yes, how can we help" not "Well, actually, this graph says there's more democracy than ever"
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"the price of liberty is eternal vigilence", not an uncommon phrase and something that the millenials seem to be adhering to.
That's something we can agree on.
  #136  
Old 11-10-2019, 08:35 AM
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I keep tellin' 'em, guillotines and gibbets but they're all like "OK, Jacobin".
  #137  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:05 AM
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Asking this in all innocence: why is the insult targeting a generation? The complaints seem to be about Republicans.
  #138  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:06 AM
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I kept waiting for young people to get really angry at what this bloated aging population-clog has done to them and to the planet. If a dismissive meme and some gigantic marches and sit-ins (Occupy) is all they can come up with I'm not impressed quite yet. They need to do more.
  #139  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
Well, given that the nationwide student debt crisis and housing affordability crisis are almost entirely due to the acts and choices of the older generations rather than those of the young people currently coping with them, I guess we're kind of lucky that the millennials are willing to settle for "wrecking" the rich old people with sarcastic clapbacks rather than with torches and pitchforks.
No argument there; I have a kid in college. Which is why it feels kind of pathetic to see people getting all excited about how they got the Boomers with this one.
  #140  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:16 AM
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Asking this in all innocence: why is the insult targeting a generation? The complaints seem to be about Republicans.
Guess who old people are more likely to vote for?
  #141  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:18 AM
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Asking this in all innocence: why is the insult targeting a generation? The complaints seem to be about Republicans.
Millennials killed Applebees.

Millennials killed diamonds.

Millennials killed golf mayonnaise the power lunch malls

Millennials whine about their debt, but if they'd just eat less avocado toast they could buy a home too.

It's a great response to this sort of generational targeting. Beyond that I'm not convinced.
  #142  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ulfreida View Post
I kept waiting for young people to get really angry at what this bloated aging population-clog has done to them and to the planet. If a dismissive meme and some gigantic marches and sit-ins (Occupy) is all they can come up with I'm not impressed quite yet. They need to do more.
I mean, on the one hand yes, on the other hand what the fuck have we done ?
  #143  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:35 AM
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this bloated aging population-clog
Stuff like this is just as gross as the "millennials could buy houses if they'd stop eating avocado toast" nonsense. Probably grosser.
  #144  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:38 AM
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Asking this in all innocence: why is the insult targeting a generation? The complaints seem to be about Republicans.
It's not about right wingers or their politics - there absolutely are stereotypical boomers on the "left" or center left. Here, I'll show you by impersonating a former boss of mine, and every person born after 1980 in the thread is going to compulsively roll their eyes in unison. I'm talking The Exorcist levels of trigger, for which I apologize in advance. Ready ? *clears throat* OK here goes :

"Yes, look, I know exaaaactly where you're coming from - I was at Woodstock you know, did you know that ? We did the counter culture fight and we won, so I know all about social justice but then I cut my hair and came back to the real world because that's not how it works and look at me now, I have my own company and three houses so you'll see, kid, you'll make it too. I really like your energy and passion, I do, but you should be using it like I did and knuckle down instead of whinging about big bad capitalism !"
  #145  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:41 AM
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Guess who old people are more likely to vote for?
I know there's a correlation, but why insult people for being old? Especially if that's not even the issue? 28,000,000 of us boomers are Democrats.
  #146  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:53 AM
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I know there's a correlation, but why insult people for being old? Especially if that's not even the issue? 28,000,000 of us boomers are Democrats.
Again, "OK boomer" isn't about your age or generation. It's about your (putative you) attitude. If you catch some "OK boomer", maybe reflect on why, or what is it in what you said that might have prompted the clapback. And if you don't, what makes you think it's about *you* ?
  #147  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:53 AM
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I know there's a correlation, but why insult people for being old? Especially if that's not even the issue? 28,000,000 of us boomers are Democrats.
Because pithy is more important than nuance when trying to make a phrase go viral.
  #148  
Old 11-10-2019, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
Again, "OK boomer" isn't about your age or generation. It's about your (putative you) attitude. If you catch some "OK boomer", maybe reflect on why, or what is it in what you said that might have prompted the clapback. And if you don't, what makes you think it's about *you* ?
Is this what you tell millennials who are annoyed at millennial-bashing?
  #149  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:04 AM
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Again, "OK boomer" isn't about your age or generation. It's about your (putative you) attitude. If you catch some "OK boomer", maybe reflect on why, or what is it in what you said that might have prompted the clapback. And if you don't, what makes you think it's about *you* ?
Because it's addressed to me, as a member of that generation. How is "boomer" not about boomers?

Why address something at an entire demographic group if it's about a behavior many in the group aren't doing? Or if it's characteristic of some other demographic group such as Republicans?

Last edited by Napier; 11-10-2019 at 10:06 AM.
  #150  
Old 11-10-2019, 10:06 AM
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As a teenager, I heard from the previous generation, "Don't trust anyone over thirty," and I thought that was stupid. I heard the apocryphal Churchill quote about being a liberal at 25 and a conservative at 35 and thought that was stupid. I heard people complaining about my generation being slackers and thought that was stupid. I heard my mom talking about how great her generation was in taking on social injustice and thought that was stupid. I heard people from her parents' generation talking about how self-absorbed their children's generation was and thought that was stupid. Then people started complaining about millennials and I thought that was stupid.

It'd be out of character for me to hear millennials complaining about another generation and to think it was incisive analysis.

I suspect that the people overusing "ok boomer" today will, in thirty years, be complaining about the younger generation's reliance on neurojacks and unwillingness to put in a hard day's work or something..

It's less about specifics, and more about how some people want to see the world in broad demographic blobs rather than as ideological differences between individuals.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 11-10-2019 at 10:08 AM.
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