Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26551  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:08 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 78,556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
All the more reason for getting out the vote. The voting rate in the USA is low compared to most developed countries. If Americans wanted change, it would be easy enough to get it simply by going out and voting.
And people need to remember if they don't vote in 2018, they might not be able to vote by 2020.
  #26552  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:09 PM
Nava Nava is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 39,462
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celidin View Post
I too saw the article from Politico and got worried. But remembered again that Mueller's office isn't the one leaking this shit, it's all coming from the side that wants you worried and despondent! Fuck those guys.

Then I saw a Twitter thread from Seth Abramson that brought stuff into context for me.
With that name, he's sure to be Deep State!


...

I wonder. Does Trump thinkbelieve somehow has something resembling a notion* all those guys in yarmulkes down in Israel are the National Israeli Accounting Team?

* The kind that's got nothing to do with sewing.
__________________
Evidence gathered through the use of science is easily dismissed through the use of idiocy. - Czarcasm.

Last edited by Nava; 10-19-2018 at 11:10 PM.
  #26553  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:13 PM
Monty's Avatar
Monty Monty is offline
Straight Dope Science Advisory Board
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Beijing, China
Posts: 21,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muffin View Post
Now that the Republicans and the Republican president have had the opportunity to steer the boat for a couple of years, the people of the USA have the opportunity to cast informed votes.

Why would you think a vote in 2016 for Trump was an informed vote?
  #26554  
Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM
septimus's Avatar
septimus septimus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: The Land of Smiles
Posts: 17,354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I like to remember that most people didn't vote for Trump in 2016. We just unfortunately have an archaic system that gives some people more votes than others and allows a minority of voters to elect a President.
I wish people wouldn't harp on that tune. It might just discourage voters and keep them home.

The GOP's electoral advantage should be viewed just as a built-in handicap we must accept. If I played Go with you, I'd let you start with nine stones on the hoshi points. If we had a boxing match, I hope you'd tie one arm behind your back. Play with a professional golfer and you'd get to subtract 10 points from your score.

It's too bad the D's can't pick up an easy 4 electoral votes by splitting California and New York into two states each. I'm not sure how you split New York to get two blue states. Make Long Island with two boroughs an entire state? (Splitting the Big City across two states would seem unprecedented —even Istanbul, spanning two continents, is in a single Turkish province.)

Squeak out victories in Florida, North Carolina, Georgia or theRust-belt states and it will be the R's complaining about electoral college disadvantage. (Unfortunately those are the precise states where the GOP is imposing hideous voter suppression measures.)
__________________
andros had more faith in an American jury than I had; and he was right. I'm happy to lose a bet and hope this trend continues.
  #26555  
Old Yesterday, 10:54 AM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal eschereal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 14,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
What if the Republicans Win Everything Again?
https://nyti.ms/2R1TAPP

If you read this whole article...it's out to the ledge.
Fuck the ledge. Why would I want to be a stain on the ground? If it gets worse, I would want my demise to amount to something. I do not want to go full asahi, but it could come to that.
  #26556  
Old Yesterday, 11:28 AM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monty View Post
Why would you think a vote in 2016 for Trump was an informed vote?
That's just it,. the 2016 was an uninformed vote.

I can forgive the person who voted for trump because he thought that trump was going to personally give him his coal job back, make sure that he has affordable and accessible healthcare, and insure the same for his children.

He was fooled, he was scammed, he may have even been conned. But he can learn, maybe, and cast a more informed vote in 2018 and 2020.

I seriously doubt that the majority of trump voters will be swayed from trump's conman rhetoric, but we may manage to pick off a few on the fringe.
  #26557  
Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
Fuck the ledge. Why would I want to be a stain on the ground? If it gets worse, I would want my demise to amount to something. I do not want to go full asahi, but it could come to that.
The trick is to aim for an expensive looking car.
  #26558  
Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
Budget Player Cadet's Avatar
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
Fuck the ledge. Why would I want to be a stain on the ground? If it gets worse, I would want my demise to amount to something. I do not want to go full asahi, but it could come to that.
Indeed, I can name at least one person, Brian Kemp, who is exactly the kind of person the "second amendment solutions" crowd would be talking about if they were anything other than a bunch of craven right-wing lunatic shitheads.

Hi, Bone.
  #26559  
Old Yesterday, 11:43 AM
Guest-starring: Id!'s Avatar
Guest-starring: Id! Guest-starring: Id! is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,265
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
...but we may manage to pick off a few on the fringe.
The burned* soy bean farmers in southern North Dakota are the first to come to mind. If they don't vote Heitkamp after the shit deal they were dealt, they can rot along with their crops.



*ok, no Spinal Tappy instant conflagration or self-immolation stuff.
  #26560  
Old Yesterday, 05:47 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by enipla View Post
...This is way IMHO, but Cohen almost seems like he could have been a decent guy, but poor lawyer. Swept up in trumps corruption, and now he wants to at least protect his family, and of course, knock some time off his sentence to enjoy a few years. Could the man actually have a conscience? No idea. No links or cites, but something has planted that idea in me.
Well, maybe. He strikes me as a bit thug-like, but maybe that's a regional thing.

But Weisselberg definitely has the nitty-gritty goods on Trump Organization doings. I continue to have high hopes for state charges.
  #26561  
Old Yesterday, 06:13 PM
enipla enipla is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 12,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Well, maybe. He strikes me as a bit thug-like, but maybe that's a regional thing.

But Weisselberg definitely has the nitty-gritty goods on Trump Organization doings. I continue to have high hopes for state charges.
Yeah, I tend to agree about Cohen. But maybe...

More likely is he had a come to Jesus moment when the FBI came a knockin.

Can state charges do anything against a sitting president? Seems like he may be bullet prof if the senate won't impeach. Quite crazy. The founding fathers never thought they had to add a codicil about the president being a complete and total crook. Sort of like saying "Hitting your thumb with a hammer is likely to hurt".

But here we are with Mitch, Ryan and the gang trying to get as much as they can before the shit hits the fan.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #26562  
Old Yesterday, 06:25 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by enipla View Post
Yeah, I tend to agree about Cohen. But maybe...
More likely is he had a come to Jesus moment when the FBI came a knockin.

Can state charges do anything against a sitting president? Seems like he may be bullet prof if the senate won't impeach. Quite crazy. The founding fathers never thought they had to add a codicil about the president being a complete and total crook. Sort of like saying "Hitting your thumb with a hammer is likely to hurt".

But here we are with Mitch, Ryan and the gang trying to get as much as they can before the shit hits the fan.
Yeah, that's the problem the FF never foresaw: a corrupt Congress, ignoring a President's high crimes and misdemeanors for their own personal profit.

As for what state charges could do: my impression is that our best hope is that the prospect of Don, Jr. and Ivanka being charged could be used to pressure Donnie to resign. 'You can keep what you've grifted if you will let the nation move on with a President who is unhampered by this multitude of potential criminal and civil vulnerabilities.' Something like that.
  #26563  
Old Yesterday, 06:37 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Yeah, that's the problem the FF never foresaw: a corrupt Congress, ignoring a President's high crimes and misdemeanors for their own personal profit.

As for what state charges could do: my impression is that our best hope is that the prospect of Don, Jr. and Ivanka being charged could be used to pressure Donnie to resign. 'You can keep what you've grifted if you will let the nation move on with a President who is unhampered by this multitude of potential criminal and civil vulnerabilities.' Something like that.
And that is ultimately what it may come down to. The president may manage to find himself immune to any form of prosecution or even civil suit, but even Kavanaugh is going to have difficulties justifying why his family should enjoy the same immunity.

Then, I guess it matters if he cares. He can send Jr and Eric to jail, along with Ivanka and her husband, and still have Tiffany and Baron, who, as far as have heard, have not done anything that would receive attention from the law.
  #26564  
Old Today, 09:57 AM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mesa, Ariz.
Posts: 4,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
Yeah, that's the problem the FF never foresaw: a corrupt Congress, ignoring a President's high crimes and misdemeanors for their own personal profit.
I think Jefferson's "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." was meant to cover that.

Not that I'm advocating direct action yet.
  #26565  
Old Today, 01:55 PM
ThelmaLou's Avatar
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Neither here nor there
Posts: 13,941
Of all the disturbing things we have learned about thump every day and sometimes several times a day, this might be THE most disturbing of all. What? you ask, Have we finally reached bottom? You tell me.

‘It doesn’t matter.’ ‘We’ll see.’ The Trump Doctrine is sounding more fatalistic every day.

My bold.
Quote:
It was Feb. 27, 2004, and Donald Trump was on “Larry King Live” to talk about his new hit TV show “The Apprentice.” Eight episodes had already aired — including one titled “Ethics Shmethics” — and the real estate mogul seemed pleased to gab with King about his return to relevance. Near the end of the segment, a caller from Burlington, N.J., asked Trump how he handles stress.

I try and tell myself it doesn’t matter,” Trump replied. “Nothing matters. If you tell yourself it doesn’t matter — like you do shows, you do this, you do that, and then you have earthquakes in India where 400,000 people get killed. Honestly, it doesn’t matter.”

Sunday night, Trump was again on television, this time as president of the United States, and not for a softball chat with a showbiz pal. Lesley Stahl of “60 Minutes” pressed Trump about his public mockery of Christine Blasey Ford, the woman who accused Supreme Court Justice Brett M. Kavanaugh of sexual assault.

“It doesn’t matter,” Trump said eventually. “We won.”

It doesn’t matter. Nothing really matters. Is this, finally, the Trump Doctrine?
...

“We’ll see what happens with Iran,” Trump said Sept. 5. “Whether they want to talk or not, that’s up to them, not up to me. I will always be available, but it doesn’t matter one way or the other.”

This philosophy springs from the privilege that’s defined his life, theorizes Tim O’Brien, author of “TrumpNation: The Art of Being the Donald.” The president was born into wealth, inherited business and opportunity, and kept graduating to higher stations despite financial, personal and political blunders.

“He profoundly believes nothing matters because he usually isn’t the victim of his own mistakes,” O’Brien says. (The White House did not reply to a request for comment.)
...

He was talking about a summit with North Korea, but he could’ve been talking about his own life. “If it doesn’t [work out], that’s okay too,” he went on to say. “Whatever it is, it is.”
...

“It doesn’t matter,” Trump said in January 2016, when asked about his flip-flopping political views.

“It doesn’t matter,” a White House aide said in May about John McCain and his opposition to Trump’s nominee for CIA director. “He’s dying anyway.”

“It doesn’t matter,” Trump said two separate times during his Sept. 20 rally in Las Vegas, where he also said “let’s see what happens” twice.

But of course there is one thing that does matter. He implied it on “60 Minutes,” and he pronounced it five weeks before his election, at a rally in Wisconsin.

“The only thing that matters,” he said then, “is to win.”
This is why he is the Pubbies dream puppet candidate. Because he doesn't give a fuck about anything except the next win. Content, context, long-range thinking, ultimate goals, principles, values, consistency-- none of those things matter. Therefore he can be used for any purpose the Pubs want, because he has no interest in where the Ship of State is sailing. Nothing matters.
__________________
The price for being intelligent enough to be the first species to be fully aware of the cosmos might just be a capacity to feel a whole universe’s worth of darkness.
  #26566  
Old Today, 02:28 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Of all the disturbing things we have learned about thump every day and sometimes several times a day, this might be THE most disturbing of all. What? you ask, Have we finally reached bottom? You tell me.

‘It doesn’t matter.’ ‘We’ll see.’ The Trump Doctrine is sounding more fatalistic every day.

My bold.

This is why he is the Pubbies dream puppet candidate. Because he doesn't give a fuck about anything except the next win. Content, context, long-range thinking, ultimate goals, principles, values, consistency-- none of those things matter. Therefore he can be used for any purpose the Pubs want, because he has no interest in where the Ship of State is sailing. Nothing matters.
It is contagious among his followers.
  #26567  
Old Today, 03:40 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 23,524
Trump says he's working on another tax cut, but this time it'll be for the middle class:
Quote:
Speaking with reporters in Nevada on Saturday, Trump said he was working on a “very major tax cut for middle-income people.” He said the White House and Congressional leaders are “studying very deeply, round the clock” to create another tax cut “not for business at all” that will be announced on November 1 or sooner. Axios was first to flag the remarks.

It’s not at all clear what Trump is talking about. House Republicans last month quietly passed a tax bill that would extend tax cuts for individuals that under last year’s legislation are set to expire in 2025. The Senate hasn’t expressed an interest in taking it up, and the president seemed to be alluding to some new package that they’re still hammering out the details on, not the bill the House GOP already passed, or the broader package they rolled out in September.
"What worked last time? Let's just say we'll do more of that!"


Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; Today at 03:40 PM.
  #26568  
Old Today, 04:00 PM
Aspenglow's Avatar
Aspenglow Aspenglow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
<snip>Nothing matters.
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. When you understand that the current Republican credo is that the end always justifies the means, everything they do makes sense. It's not honorable, it's not ethical, it's not decent. It's the opposite of all those things. But their only defining goal is to obtain the result they want.

As Steve Bannon recently put it in an interview with Michael Moore when asked why Republicans keep "winning" against Dems, Bannon said something like, "We're willing to take head shots. You guys have pillow fights." He's right.

I don't believe the way forward for Dems/liberals/progressives is to engage in head shots. If we sacrifice our own decency as they have, we will accomplish nothing. But it's good to be aware of where they're coming from and why there is no bottom in their race to the bottom. There is quite literally nothing they won't sanction in their quest for absolute power.
  #26569  
Old Today, 04:17 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. When you understand that the current Republican credo is that the end always justifies the means, everything they do makes sense. It's not honorable, it's not ethical, it's not decent. It's the opposite of all those things. But their only defining goal is to obtain the result they want.

As Steve Bannon recently put it in an interview with Michael Moore when asked why Republicans keep "winning" against Dems, Bannon said something like, "We're willing to take head shots. You guys have pillow fights." He's right.

I don't believe the way forward for Dems/liberals/progressives is to engage in head shots. If we sacrifice our own decency as they have, we will accomplish nothing. But it's good to be aware of where they're coming from and why there is no bottom in their race to the bottom. There is quite literally nothing they won't sanction in their quest for absolute power.
I see this as a hostage negotiation. Republicans had taken the country hostage and have a gun to its head. That gives them a certain amount of power, a power they have no desire to give up.

Unfortunately, in a hostage negotiation, at no time does the hostage negotiator get to threaten to kill the hostages himself, no matter what leverage it would give him.
  #26570  
Old Today, 04:42 PM
Aspenglow's Avatar
Aspenglow Aspenglow is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,931
Quote:
Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
I see this as a hostage negotiation. Republicans had taken the country hostage and have a gun to its head. That gives them a certain amount of power, a power they have no desire to give up.

Unfortunately, in a hostage negotiation, at no time does the hostage negotiator get to threaten to kill the hostages himself, no matter what leverage it would give him.
A very apt analogy. Well said.
  #26571  
Old Today, 04:46 PM
enipla enipla is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Colorado Rockies.
Posts: 12,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
I've said it before and I'll keep saying it. When you understand that the current Republican credo is that the end always justifies the means, everything they do makes sense. It's not honorable, it's not ethical, it's not decent. It's the opposite of all those things. But their only defining goal is to obtain the result they want.
The 'end', the future is their personal bank accounts. That's it THEIR personal bank accounts. Not their supporters, not the country not the world. Whoever has the most toys when they die wins. That's it.
__________________
I don't live in the middle of nowhere, but I can see it from here.
  #26572  
Old Today, 05:20 PM
Rick Kitchen's Avatar
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 15,709
The First Minister of Scotland has withdrawn from a conference organized by the BBC because Steve Bannon was invited. The BBC identified Bannon as a ‘powerful and influential figure … promoting an anti-elite movement’.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...non-invitation
  #26573  
Old Today, 06:05 PM
Sherrerd's Avatar
Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
The First Minister of Scotland has withdrawn from a conference organized by the BBC because Steve Bannon was invited. The BBC identified Bannon as a ‘powerful and influential figure … promoting an anti-elite movement’.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...non-invitation
"An anti-elite movement," really? BBC, you are being just frightfully misleading, there.

Bannon is not anti-elite. He's anti-democracy, anti-peace, and anti-humanity. Bannon profits by manipulating the rubes to vote against their own self-interest. The actual elites love that, because their own self-interest is being served by the foolish self-sabotage the rubes perform under the impression that they're 'sticking it to those snotty people who look down on us.'

So, sure, Bannon fools rubes into thinking they're sticking it to "the elites," but that's an illusion. Odd that the BBC is supporting his efforts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Trump says he's working on another tax cut, but this time it'll be for the middle class:"What worked last time? Let's just say we'll do more of that!"
This implies that Trump is bothered by the attentive response many voters have shown to Democratic candidates who have repeatedly pointed out that benefits from the vaunted GOP tax cut are NOT showing up for working and/or middle class people.

Trump wants to short-circuit the inevitable thought many are having (that Republicans haven't really done all that much for them, other than empty claims). He wants voters to vote Republican out of faith that Republicans will actually do something for them in some vague future.
  #26574  
Old Today, 06:39 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi asahi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 6,937
The real story is how Trump and the GOP are going to redefine their America. They're going after immigration, and they're just getting started. Legal immigration is going to be cut down sharply.

But that's just the beginning. Jim Crow version 2.0 is already quietly underway. Look at what's happening in Georgia and North Carolina with voting rights - just the beginning. Once you prevent blacks from voting, the next step is to keep blacks under control, by jailing them for minor crimes, allowing discrimination in the private sector, and making it obvious where their 'place' in society is.
  #26575  
Old Today, 06:50 PM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is online now
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 23,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherrerd;21279455This implies that Trump is bothered by the attentive response many voters have shown to Democratic candidates who have repeatedly pointed out that benefits from the vaunted GOP tax cut are NOT showing up for working and/or middle class people.

Trump wants to short-circuit the inevitable thought many are having (that Republicans haven't really done all that much for them, other than empty claims). He wants voters to vote Republican out of [I
faith[/I] that Republicans will actually do something for them in some vague future.
Oh sure: you know that and I know that. As you say, tho, many people don't know that and will be fooled by these words, as happens with every goddamned ridiculous lie a Republican says. And holy fuck Republicans tell a lot of lies.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; Today at 06:51 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017