Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-28-2020, 07:15 AM
CalMeacham's Avatar
CalMeacham is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 45,616

Trump and L. Ron Hubbard


They seem awfully similar. Both are arrogant, self-confidant con men with outrageous coloring with cult followings. They lie outrageously and get themselves out of apparent traps with ad hoc explanations. They're never wrong, because that would be a sign of weakness. And they do as much as possible to increase their own wealth while lying about any of it going to them. after all, look at all the time they spend working for the improvement of those in their charge.

Hubbard was able to escape prosecution by taking to his own private navy, and in his later years sneaking back into the US into Florida and, later, California. "When you move off a Point of Power," he wrote. "Pay all your obligations cash on the nail and go live in Belgravia and buy off the police."

Trump can't do that. In the first place, I don't think he ever paid off anyone fully, i cash or otherwise. He hasn't got a private navy*. And which country would take him in? I doubt even Russia would be interested. So it might be difficult to extract him from his suite in the White House.




*He sold off the Trump Princess in 1991, having owned it less than three years. It's now the Kingdom 5KR -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_5KR
__________________
The makers of the GoPro have to come out with a model called the "Quid"
  #2  
Old 04-28-2020, 08:17 AM
Ike Witt's Avatar
Ike Witt is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost in the mists of time
Posts: 15,581
What colour was Elron?
  #3  
Old 04-28-2020, 08:49 AM
CalMeacham's Avatar
CalMeacham is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 45,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Witt View Post
What colour was Elron?
He had "flaming red hair", but it was supposed to be natural. His skin wasn't orange. He apparently had a deep baritone and was said (by people not in his cult) to be a good singer in his youth, so it's probably true.
__________________
The makers of the GoPro have to come out with a model called the "Quid"
  #4  
Old 04-28-2020, 08:53 AM
Wesley Clark's Avatar
Wesley Clark is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 23,874
Jesus, trump bought a super yacht for $20 million and managed to even lose money on that.

Quote:
The yacht was built in 1980 by the yacht builder Benetti at a cost of $100 million[1] (equivalent to $310 million in 2019). Its original interior was designed by Luigi Sturchio.....

After Khashoggi ran into financial problems, he sold the yacht in 1988 to the Sultan of Brunei, who in turn sold her to Donald Trump for $29 million. After a refit, Trump renamed her Trump Princess. Then she was sold in 1991[3] to Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal for $20 million.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion

Last edited by Wesley Clark; 04-28-2020 at 08:53 AM.
  #5  
Old 04-28-2020, 09:02 AM
Elmer J. Fudd is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 1,686
I think Hubbard was probably a lot more self-aware than Trump. He was certainly a better businessman than Trump. Hubbard was PT Barnum compared to Trump’s Jim Jones.
__________________
Elmer J. Fudd,
Millionaire.
I own a mansion and a yacht.
  #6  
Old 04-28-2020, 09:46 AM
Oredigger77 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Back at 5,280
Posts: 5,560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Jesus, trump bought a super yacht for $20 million and managed to even lose money on that.
Trump is a buffoon but I'm pretty sure everyone loses money on boats. I don't think even super yatchs are appreciating assets.
  #7  
Old 04-28-2020, 10:02 AM
Ike Witt's Avatar
Ike Witt is online now
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Lost in the mists of time
Posts: 15,581
Interesting. I went to look for pictures of Hubbard. I had seen his picture before but I never noticed the red hair. I happened to find this article from 2016 - Donald Trump and L. Ron Hubbard, two of a kind. The first paragraph ends with
Quote:
Trump could be called his alter ego.
  #8  
Old 04-28-2020, 10:27 AM
Bryan Ekers's Avatar
Bryan Ekers is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 60,115
Hubbard arguably has had more success in Hollywood.
  #9  
Old 04-28-2020, 10:40 AM
Buck Godot's Avatar
Buck Godot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD outside DC
Posts: 6,527
Unlike Trump, L. Ron Hubbard was clearly literate. He may not write particularly well but he can certainly turn out lots and lots of words. Given the choice between Hubbard and Trump for president, I'd probably start getting my thetans checked.
  #10  
Old 04-28-2020, 10:51 AM
MEBuckner's Avatar
MEBuckner is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 12,498
Huh. So, the current President of the United States--whose opponents accuse him of having collaborated with sinister foreign powers to subvert American democracy--once owned a superyacht that, among other things, was used in a Bond film (Never Say Never Again), where it "played" the yacht of a Bond villain (a billionaire businessman who's secretly an agent of the sinister international criminal organization SPECTRE).

OK, Real Life, this whole episode is poorly written. I mean, geez, a little subtlety here? You can quite beating us over the head with this stuff! What's next, the Evil President's son and namesake exchanging e-mails about "Russia and its government's support for [your father]"..."if it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer"?!?
__________________
"In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves." -- Carl Sagan

Ceterum censeo imperium Trumpi esse delendam
  #11  
Old 04-28-2020, 11:13 AM
Wesley Clark's Avatar
Wesley Clark is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 23,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oredigger77 View Post
Trump is a buffoon but I'm pretty sure everyone loses money on boats. I don't think even super yatchs are appreciating assets.
Yeah but he bought a yacht that was made for $100 million just a decade before for 29 million. Not a bad deal. Then he apparently spent money to upgrade it, then sold it for 20 million.

He got a yacht for 1/3 its original price and still found a way to lose money.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion
  #12  
Old 04-28-2020, 11:28 AM
Jackmannii's Avatar
Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 33,421
Trump resembles Kaiser Wilhelm II far more than L. Ron Hubbard. Looking up articles on the Kaiser, you come across phrases like "operetta character suffering from megalomania", "verbal outbursts", "ill-advised interviews" plus "(quick) temper and an impulsive, high-strung personality."

Sounds familiar. Though the Kaiser was probably more intelligent than Trump, and due to his obsession with military power and world domination, more dangerous.

Last edited by Jackmannii; 04-28-2020 at 11:28 AM.
  #13  
Old 04-28-2020, 11:32 AM
Yllaria is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Stockton
Posts: 11,261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Yeah but he bought a yacht that was made for $100 million just a decade before for 29 million. Not a bad deal. Then he apparently spent money to upgrade it, then sold it for 20 million.

He got a yacht for 1/3 its original price and still found a way to lose money.
When you buy any vehicle, you're fighting entropy. A car loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot, and then loses more value every year. That nine million drop could have been the expected depreciation.

You don't buy a yacht expecting it to be an investment. It's going to be a money sink. It's just a question of how much you're gong to lose.
  #14  
Old 04-28-2020, 11:47 AM
DirtyHippy's Avatar
DirtyHippy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Quacker Lane
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yllaria View Post
When you buy any vehicle, you're fighting entropy. A car loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot, and then loses more value every year. That nine million drop could have been the expected depreciation.

You don't buy a yacht expecting it to be an investment. It's going to be a money sink. It's just a question of how much you're gong to lose.
A friend of mine explained it best. A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into.
  #15  
Old 04-28-2020, 11:54 AM
ASL v2.0's Avatar
ASL v2.0 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Various
Posts: 1,172
What fascinates me about Hubbard is he convinced the US Navy to give him command at sea. Twice. Every assignment he had, except maybe his very last in which they finally recognized he needed to be watched closely by a more senior officer, he bungled spectacularly, and yet they kept on giving him sweeter and sweeter gigs until he finally shelled Mexico.

Come to think of it, if Trump had been President at the time, I could see him intervening on Hubbard's behalf after the shelling incident. Maybe even putting him in command of a bigger ship.
  #16  
Old 04-28-2020, 01:26 PM
CalMeacham's Avatar
CalMeacham is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 45,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
What fascinates me about Hubbard is he convinced the US Navy to give him command at sea. Twice. Every assignment he had, except maybe his very last in which they finally recognized he needed to be watched closely by a more senior officer, he bungled spectacularly, and yet they kept on giving him sweeter and sweeter gigs until he finally shelled Mexico.

Come to think of it, if Trump had been President at the time, I could see him intervening on Hubbard's behalf after the shelling incident. Maybe even putting him in command of a bigger ship.
I don't see it as getting "sweeter and sweeter" gigs. Hubbard embarrassed himself by claiming to engage a Japanese sub off the Pacific Northwest that was almost certainly a magnetic anomaly before he went down and shelled that Mexican island (uninhabited, fortunately). at best he had lateral transfers after he got his first boat.


The one thing I feel genuinely sorry about for Hubbard -- the only thing, because he was a terrible, abusive human being, but it's there -- was that he wrote up his action reports the same way he wrote his pulp stories, and the Navy chastised him for it. They wanted crisp, no-nonsense succinct factual reports, and he gave them what he was used to writing. It was probably the first time ever he was criticized for the quality of his writing, and it must have burned.

Kind of like the way Trump must have felt after addressing the UN, come to think of it. What worked for your usual audience might bomb when it's exposed to the World At Large.
__________________
The makers of the GoPro have to come out with a model called the "Quid"
  #17  
Old 04-28-2020, 03:10 PM
ASL v2.0's Avatar
ASL v2.0 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Various
Posts: 1,172
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
I don't see it as getting "sweeter and sweeter" gigs. Hubbard embarrassed himself by claiming to engage a Japanese sub off the Pacific Northwest that was almost certainly a magnetic anomaly before he went down and shelled that Mexican island (uninhabited, fortunately). at best he had lateral transfers after he got his first boat.
Shortly after the outbreak of WWII, he ended up getting a cush job as a naval attaché in Brisbane, Australia. He made a nuisance of himself, pretending to have greater authority than he really had, and so was sent away as a troublemaker.

Then, rather than ship him off to some god forsaken island in the Pacific or a ship aiming to retake one of the same, they sent him home instead, and put him in command of a converted yacht. And rest assured, command of any sort for a junior officer can be considered "a pretty sweet gig," and keep in mind how at this time the remnants of the asiatic fleet were fighting (largely unsuccessfully) for their lives, and the last organized defenders of the Philippines were being marched to death on the way to captivity. And what did Hubbard do? He fouled up so bad that he managed to get a letter written to the Vice Chief of Naval Operations stating he was "not temperamentally fitted for independent command."

But was that the end of it? No. He got sent to a few months of training in Miami, and was rewarded with yet another command—this time a bona fide purpose built warship that would ultimately go overseas, albeit without him—and so would go on to shell Mexico.

Those are three pretty choice assignments, but his poor performance during the first alone should have been enough to show that he needed to be watched closely, and yet somehow the Navy saw fit to give him independent command twice, until the very end of the war when the Navy finally wisened up and figured he’d do better as a department head working beneath a more seasoned commanding officer.

He avoided the most arduous duty, though perhaps not intentionally, in spite of serving in the Navy throughout the course of the war, and yet got just far enough from home on both coasts to earn a couple of campaign ribbons and start developing a much more fantastic claim to being some kind of hero.

It’s genuinely fascinating to me that he managed to do that, and I wonder how much of it was through sheer force of will on his part, and how much of it was just due to luck and inattentiveness on the part of the Navy. It’s the kind of absurdist tale that makes me think there’s hope for any of us. Just a little luck and a little apathy from the right people along the way is all we need.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 04-28-2020 at 03:15 PM.
  #18  
Old 04-28-2020, 03:58 PM
Folacin is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North of the River
Posts: 3,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
It’s genuinely fascinating to me that he managed to do that, and I wonder how much of it was through sheer force of will on his part, and how much of it was just due to luck and inattentiveness on the part of the Navy. It’s the kind of absurdist tale that makes me think there’s hope for any of us. Just a little luck and a little apathy from the right people along the way is all we need.
I think a lot of it was down to two things:
  1. Presumably he had high charisma - you certainly couldn't be a dweeb and build Scientology - and that led to the Navy over-estimating his abilities.
  2. More importantly, the Navy needed lots of officers to command ships (there was a war on, after all). So I'm guessing anyone who appeared at all competent got a couple of bites at the apple. After the third time (Australia and the two ships) combined with his health problems, they gave up.
  #19  
Old 04-28-2020, 05:48 PM
Monty's Avatar
Monty is online now
Straight Dope Science Advisory Board
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Beijing, China
Posts: 24,712
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
Trump resembles Kaiser Wilhelm II far more than L. Ron Hubbard. Looking up articles on the Kaiser, you come across phrases like "operetta character suffering from megalomania", "verbal outbursts", "ill-advised interviews" plus "(quick) temper and an impulsive, high-strung personality."

Sounds familiar. Though the Kaiser was probably more intelligent than Trump, and due to his obsession with military power and world domination, more dangerous.

And the Kaiser thought he was a king!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASL v2.0 View Post
What fascinates me about Hubbard is he convinced the US Navy to give him command at sea. Twice.

There was a war looming (and finally occurring) and he had a highly placed political friend.

Quote:
Every assignment he had, except maybe his very last in which they finally recognized he needed to be watched closely by a more senior officer, he bungled spectacularly, and yet they kept on giving him sweeter and sweeter gigs until he finally shelled Mexico.

Come to think of it, if Trump had been President at the time, I could see him intervening on Hubbard's behalf after the shelling incident. Maybe even putting him in command of a bigger ship.

Well, not if he hit that damn wall. Kill a few brown folks, and he'd be golden; embarrass the tanned and he'd be canned.
  #20  
Old 04-29-2020, 07:39 AM
CalMeacham's Avatar
CalMeacham is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 45,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Folacin View Post
I think a lot of it was down to two things:
  1. Presumably he had high charisma - you certainly couldn't be a dweeb and build Scientology - and that led to the Navy over-estimating his abilities.
Hubbard hadn't even thought of Scientology when he was in the Navy -- that came after the war was over. When he joined the Navy he was a Pulp Fiction Author who had also written some screenplays. So they couldn't have had any estimate of his abilities based on his founding a mental abilities movement (Dianetics came first, and had no religious trappings at first)

He certainly did have High Charisma, though, according to people who knew him.
__________________
The makers of the GoPro have to come out with a model called the "Quid"

Last edited by CalMeacham; 04-29-2020 at 07:40 AM.
  #21  
Old 04-29-2020, 07:52 AM
Fugazi is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,476
At least he was in the military, unlike Cadet Bonespurs.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2019 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017