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Old 04-24-2020, 11:13 PM
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Governor Andrew Cuomo has now ousted himself as a piece of shit: 'Domestic Violence' is 'Not Death'


https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz...nt-isnt-death/

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ďEconomic hardship ó yes, very bad ó not death. Emotional stress, from being locked in a house ó very bad, not death. Domestic violence on the increase? Very bad, not death. And the death of someone else,Ē Cuomo callously stated. ďSee, thatís what we have to factor into this equation. Yea, itís your life, do whatever you want, but youíre now responsible for my life, you have a responsibility to me. Itís not just about you, you have a responsibility to me, right?Ē
I understand lot of us have differing opinions on how long or extensive the shutdowns should be. And naturally thereís debate about when or if the ďcure is worse than the diseaseĒ.

Being pro-lockdown is totally fine and probably necessary at least to some extent, but at the same time, the callous disregard for domestic violence, mental health concerns, and even economic hardship is also pretty disgusting.

Thatís one thing thatís been irking me about this whole thing. A lot of people have empathy for COVID-19 patients, but have seemed to turn that empathy off for almost anything else. Issues I thought we made great progress on being understanding towards. Iíve even been hearing about people committing suicides due to this whole situation being made fun of or shamed for being ďweakĒ lately. Feels very regressive societally.

As necessary as the shutdowns may be, the least we can do is still have empathy for these people and try to implement support services as best as possible.
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Old 04-24-2020, 11:53 PM
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"Dying of coronavirus is preferable to domestic violence" is a weird takeaway from that encounter.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:00 AM
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Complaining that others lack empathy is a weird stance for a Tony Katz listener. Was it just last week that he had Rep. Hollingsworth on to argue in favor of ending stay-home orders as "the lesser evil," or was that the week before? Time is kinda blurry for me these days.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:18 AM
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Complaining that others lack empathy is a weird stance for a Tony Katz listener. Was it just last week that he had Rep. Hollingsworth on to argue in favor of ending stay-home orders as "the lesser evil," or was that the week before? Time is kinda blurry for me these days.
I don't know, because I don't follow that site nor am I listener or really aware of it. It was just one of the sources I found that was talking about Cuomo's remarks on the matter.

And I feel like empathy can go both ways, both in regards to the some people who are suffering from the devastating second-hand effects of the shelter-in-place and the people suffering from COVID-19. I feel like there's not enough of the former however.
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:53 AM
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Is the idea that, while domestic violence is “very bad”, you need to be alive for us to do anything about it so wrong?

Is the idea to prioritize bad?

Or isn’t he prioritizing your hobby horse and therefore an asshole?
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Old 04-25-2020, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by R3d Anonymous View Post
https://www.wibc.com/blogs/tony-katz...nt-isnt-death/



I understand lot of us have differing opinions on how long or extensive the shutdowns should be. And naturally thereís debate about when or if the ďcure is worse than the diseaseĒ.

Being pro-lockdown is totally fine and probably necessary at least to some extent, but at the same time, the callous disregard for domestic violence, mental health concerns, and even economic hardship is also pretty disgusting.

Thatís one thing thatís been irking me about this whole thing. A lot of people have empathy for COVID-19 patients, but have seemed to turn that empathy off for almost anything else. Issues I thought we made great progress on being understanding towards. Iíve even been hearing about people committing suicides due to this whole situation being made fun of or shamed for being ďweakĒ lately. Feels very regressive societally.

As necessary as the shutdowns may be, the least we can do is still have empathy for these people and try to implement support services as best as possible.
Men are often the victims of emotional and sometimes physical abuse.
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Old 04-25-2020, 07:37 AM
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I've seen the clip going round on Facebook. He's making a fair point. Abrasive, sure. But the original question was the old "isn't the cure worse than the disease?" blah-di-blah that I'm sure he's heartily sick of by now, and the whole point of listing a whole heap of bad things that we know are very bad, is that being dead is actually worse.

I have no idea what this Tony wazzizface's political slant is, but I suspect him of having an agenda.
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Old 04-25-2020, 07:47 AM
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Sometimes, economic hardship, emotional stress, and domestic violence are death.
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Old 04-25-2020, 07:54 AM
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Heís right.
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Old 04-25-2020, 08:33 AM
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There will never come a time when I will say Cuomo is not frequently abrasive - but in a world where people think this
message is socially acceptable to have on your rear windshield , I don't really have a problem with him being abrasive.

And yeah, sometimes those things are death - but context is everything. A reporter asked a "question" abut the protesters outside the briefing who want to get back to work , don't have time to wait and say the cure can't be worse than the disease. Thing is though, if the cure for economic hardship, emotional stress and domestic violence is reopening the economy too soon it will result in far more deaths than those three factors - there have been over 11K coronavirus deaths in NYC over the past what, six weeks? And that was with the businesses closed -who knows how many there would have been if it was "business as usual". There were 318 murders in NYC in 2019 , and only a portion of them were due to DV. The most recent number I can find for reported suicides in NYC was for 2015, when 552 suicides were reported.

And there was another point Cuomo made- it's all well and good to say that I want the economy to reopen and I'm willing to risk death to work or get my hair cut but it's not only my death I'm risking. I might pick up the virus on the subway ( where I wouldn't have been if I wasn't working) and give it to the hairstylist ( who wouldn't have had contact with me unless the salon reopened) and then she dies while I recover.

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Old 04-25-2020, 08:50 AM
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As a lifelong NYer, I can get behind Cuomo being an asshole. Because he is. He's a shrewd political operator who plays cronyism like Yo Yo Ma plays cello. He's corrupt. And he learned all of these things from his daddy, Mario. (Still fuming a bit when either he or Chris referenced their "middle class" upbringing...dudes, you're the sons of a governor of New York who traded favors like Pokemon cards - you were nowhere near middle class).

Yet the other side can't find anybody whom I might even consider voting for over Cuomo. Despite all that, when leadership and action was needed, he came through. George Pataki, who was a centrist Republican, was tolerable, but right now the only republicans getting any traction are the batshit insane ones; the ones who, in comparison, make Cuomo look like a clean, upstanding politician.

So yeah, Cuomo is a piece of shit. He's an asshole. He's still light-years better than those piece-of-shit asshole governors in Georgia, Florida, and a bunch of those western and southern states. So you can take that OP, shine it up real nice, then turn that sumbitch sideways and stick it straight up your candy ass, because at least he's doing his fucking job and not sucking at the teat of the orange asshole.
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Old 04-25-2020, 08:54 AM
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So saying that domestic violence is very bad but not as bad as dying makes you a piece of shit? Well, then I guess I'm a piece of shit because I think the same thing.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:10 AM
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Yeah . . . R3d Anonymous, are you suggesting that a person dying of COVID-19 is preferable to a person suffering domestic abuse? Are you suggesting that that isn't the case, but you should never say it out loud because reasons? Or what, exactly, is your point?
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:15 AM
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Governor Andrew Cuomo has now ousted himself...

So he's no longer Governor?
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:20 AM
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Someone dying from coronavirus is worse than someone getting a black eye from domestic abuse. Someone dying from domestic abuse is worse than someone coughing for a week from coronavirus. To compare these things, you need numbers, which is complicated by the fact that the numbers who die from the reaction to the coronavirus are spread out over many different causes, and over years or decades.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:29 AM
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So saying that domestic violence is very bad but not as bad as dying makes you a piece of shit? Well, then I guess I'm a piece of shit because I think the same thing.
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Yeah . . . R3d Anonymous, are you suggesting that a person dying of COVID-19 is preferable to a person suffering domestic abuse? Are you suggesting that that isn't the case, but you should never say it out loud because reasons? Or what, exactly, is your point?
Guys, it's really easy to say "domestic violence is better than death" when it's someone else's domestic violence and your death. I agree that the lock down is essential, but we should be humbly recognizing that we are trapping some people in hell, rather than telling them they are lucky they aren't dead (when what we really mean is, they are lucky that WE are not dead).

This lock down is not hitting all of America the same. We are not all making the same sacrifices. I'm making virtually none: I have a good, stable job I can do at home, a safe place to stay, full access to all the amenities I need. So I think it is important that I acknowledge and respect the fact that those sacrifices are being made, and not minimize the horrible cost others are paying.

There are children right now living in hell because of this. They will remember the lock down as a blur of pain, of sexual assault, of constant, grinding fear and shame with no hope of rescue or respite. We should not say to those children "Well, at least you aren't dead. Quit your bitching". We should say "We are sorry we had to pick the lives of the many over the safety of a smaller group." And we should be thinking of ways to mitigate this, to reach out to those kids (and adults) and find a way to offer at least some of them escape.

Sometimes hard choices have to be made, but it's chickenshit to deny the price others are paying.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:33 AM
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Did Gov. Cuomo announce that domestic violence complaints will be ignored by the police until further notice? No? OP is fucking stupid considering all the real dumb shit going on.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:54 AM
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Wacky Idea: Howzabout instead of opining from an edited transcript posted on a right-wing talk show host's blog, we check out the tape of the full (4-minute) exchange and base our reactions on a primary source?

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1253005065192968192

Last edited by mjmlabs; 04-25-2020 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 04-25-2020, 09:58 AM
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Sometimes hard choices have to be made, but it's chickenshit to deny the price others are paying.
Agreed, that would be chickenshit if someone did that.

Has anyone here done that? Did Gov. Cuomo do that? I've seen no evidence of that.
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:03 AM
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Guys, it's really easy to say "domestic violence is better than death" when it's someone else's domestic violence and your death. I agree that the lock down is essential, but we should be humbly recognizing that we are trapping some people in hell, rather than telling them they are lucky they aren't dead (when what we really mean is, they are lucky that WE are not dead).
I don't really disagree with anything you said ( and I kind of wish he had left the DV out of his response) but you have to understand that this statement was made in response to a question about protestors who don't agree the lockdown is essential , and who are kind of doing what you describe - they're saying someone else's death or illness is better than their economic problems and that the "cure (lockdown) is worse than the disease (Covid 19)".
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:23 AM
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Guys, it's really easy to say "domestic violence is better than death" when it's someone else's domestic violence and your death. I agree that the lock down is essential, but we should be humbly recognizing that we are trapping some people in hell, rather than telling them they are lucky they aren't dead (when what we really mean is, they are lucky that WE are not dead).
I was with you up till the part I underlined...what do you mean?

When all the lockdowns started, I noticed schools hurried to figure out how to have grab and go lunches for students because they KNEW so many poor families would starve if they didn't.

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This lock down is not hitting all of America the same. We are not all making the same sacrifices. I'm making virtually none: I have a good, stable job I can do at home, a safe place to stay, full access to all the amenities I need. So I think it is important that I acknowledge and respect the fact that those sacrifices are being made, and not minimize the horrible cost others are paying.
Absolutely. A lot of inequities exist at the other end as well, IMO. I've seen ads for Ruth's Chris Steak House over the years and often wondered what it's like because mmboy, steak! But I never have sampled it (too pricey). Well instead of setting aside a rainy day fund now they get help while mom and pop's around me go under?

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There are children right now living in hell because of this. They will remember the lock down as a blur of pain, of sexual assault, of constant, grinding fear and shame with no hope of rescue or respite. We should not say to those children "Well, at least you aren't dead. Quit your bitching". We should say "We are sorry we had to pick the lives of the many over the safety of a smaller group." And we should be thinking of ways to mitigate this, to reach out to those kids (and adults) and find a way to offer at least some of them escape.

Sometimes hard choices have to be made, but it's chickenshit to deny the price others are paying.
I didn't get a "quit your bitching" vibe from his comments. If I were in Cuomo's shoes, I'd be obsessed with life/death, too. More than 21K have already died in his state. There are makeshift morgues in the parking lot house the bodies. Some New Yorkers still not social distancing etc. He's crossed swords with Trump how many times, trying to get support?

I agree that there needs to be more done. This is like a fire drill gone wrong. And I think this is becoming the wave of the future. We've had how many scares in the last few years? Ebola, Zika, Swine Flu and more. To think this is the last time we might have to quarantine...?

I don't get "chickenshit" from it. Overall I think Cuomo shouldn't be fighting this alone. The Feds etc. should be leading it, having more resources etc. It's a battlefield promotion of sorts. Makes you wonder why we pay federal taxes....
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Old 04-25-2020, 10:33 AM
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Guys, it's really easy to say "domestic violence is better than death" when it's someone else's domestic violence and your death
No, I'm saying it even if I was the victim. Both are bad. Death is worse.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:53 PM
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Men are often the victims of emotional and sometimes physical abuse.
I've been the victim of physical and emotional abuse. My father was mentally ill and beat and emotionally abused my mother and my siblings for many years.

It was horrible, but preferable to dying of coronavirus. No, domestic violence is not death.
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Old 04-25-2020, 03:57 PM
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I can't shake the feeling that he's running for President. As a lefty, I think he would make a better candidate than Joe, but not a better President.
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:17 PM
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No, I'm saying it even if I was the victim. Both are bad. Death is worse.
Sure, but if it was 100% certainty your kid was getting beaten bloody, but a 1% chance of death? Because they is the reality for a lot of kids. We are trapping them with certain abusers to minimize the chance of our own death. Those kids are not at risk.

Look, I'm not arguing it's wrong. I'm just admitting, with humility, that it's an awful choice, and a shameful mark on our society that we had to make it.
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:25 PM
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I don't really disagree with anything you said ( and I kind of wish he had left the DV out of his response) but you have to understand that this statement was made in response to a question about protestors who don't agree the lockdown is essential , and who are kind of doing what you describe - they're saying someone else's death or illness is better than their economic problems and that the "cure (lockdown) is worse than the disease (Covid 19)".
I guess my issue is that because this issue has somehow become partisan, people on the left are overcompensating. Admitting the terrible, terrible price of this isn't the same as advocating for a premature end to the lockdown. It's simply admitting the truth.
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:33 PM
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I guess my issue is that because this issue has somehow become partisan, people on the left are overcompensating. Admitting the terrible, terrible price of this isn't the same as advocating for a premature end to the lockdown. It's simply admitting the truth.
Except that isn't what the protestors I am ( and the reporter was) speaking of were doing. It was a specific group of people who were outside his press conference on April 22. These people aren't admitting any terrible price- they are advocating the end of the lockdown.

Last edited by doreen; 04-25-2020 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 04-27-2020, 05:26 AM
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As necessary as the shutdowns may be, the least we can do is still have empathy for these people and try to implement support services as best as possible.
Talk is cheap, support services are expensive. Tax the wealthy. Thoughts and prayers (empathy) accomplish fuck all.
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Old 04-27-2020, 06:25 AM
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So yeah, Cuomo is a piece of shit. He's an asshole. He's still light-years better than those piece-of-shit asshole governors in Georgia, Florida, and a bunch of those western and southern states. So you can take that OP, shine it up real nice, then turn that sumbitch sideways and stick it straight up your candy ass, because at least he's doing his fucking job and not sucking at the teat of the orange asshole.
This post makes no sense. Cuomo is a bad person. But the OP is horrible for daring to say that out loud. Even though you yourself just got through saying that same thing. So the existence of other worse people both means that you should never say anything bad about him (the OP) and that it's okay to say something bad about him.

If he's a piece of shit, then the OP's post is fine. Pretending that you have to be nice about the piece of shit because other people are worse is a false dichotomy.
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:02 AM
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Except that isn't what the protestors I am ( and the reporter was) speaking of were doing. It was a specific group of people who were outside his press conference on April 22. These people aren't admitting any terrible price- they are advocating the end of the lockdown.
Manda JO doesn't seem to have been talking about you or the reporter. I mean, her first post in this thread was in reply to posters in this thread who seemed to only see one side. People in this thread were doing the same thing that Cuomo was doing, dismissing domestic violence as not being death and thus not worthy of consideration.

And that is what he did. He mentioned it flippantly, and then didn't discuss it. It wasn't even germane to the question asked, which was about economic hardship. He listed domestic violence along with emotional stress, for fuck's sake.

Domestic violence increasing is not like economic hardship or emotional distress, both an inevitable part of the shutdown. There can still be mitigations. There have been elsewhere, like instituting phone lines to call if there are such problems and having places where they can go (albeit under quarantine for 14 days as they move).

What the OP says is valid--that, while we need to keep the lockdown, we also need to do what we can for these other situations. I don't see any reason to turn it into "you think death isn't worse than domestic violence?" Clearly R3d Anonymous doesn't, as nothing in his OP even remotely implies that. He's just concerned that mental health and domestic violence issues are being ignored during the lockdown.
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Old 04-28-2020, 04:57 PM
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So saying that domestic violence is very bad but not as bad as dying makes you a piece of shit? Well, then I guess I'm a piece of shit because I think the same thing.
I agree, We all know domestic violence is very bad. I wish everyone had the strength and ability to recognize abuse, to not enter a relationship with an abuser, to not bring children into this world with an abuser, to not stay with an abuser, etc but clearly that isn't going to happen. Nothing can be done about the choices people make or the reasons why they make them.

But dying and spreading disease and death to others is a lot worse.
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Old 04-28-2020, 06:34 PM
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R3d Anonymous ousted (sic) himself as a resident of 'Central Florida' which somewhat explains the nonsensical OP.
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:27 PM
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This post makes no sense. Cuomo is a bad person. But the OP is horrible for daring to say that out loud. Even though you yourself just got through saying that same thing. So the existence of other worse people both means that you should never say anything bad about him (the OP) and that it's okay to say something bad about him.

If he's a piece of shit, then the OP's post is fine. Pretending that you have to be nice about the piece of shit because other people are worse is a false dichotomy.
Not quite what I (thought I) was saying. My issue is with idiot conservatives pretending that liberals think their politicians are perfect and can't see their warts, because that's what they think. My contention is that yes, Cuomo has warts. NYers know that. But he is far better than anything the right has thrown up against him. And in this crisis, as conservatives try desperately to shift focus away from their horrible decisions, pointing out that Cuomo said something that could be interpreted as bad when Georgia and Florida Republican governors are actively trying to kill people is complete and total bullshit.
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:11 PM
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I agree, We all know domestic violence is very bad. I wish everyone had the strength and ability to recognize abuse, to not enter a relationship with an abuser, to not bring children into this world with an abuser, to not stay with an abuser, etc but clearly that isn't going to happen. Nothing can be done about the choices people make or the reasons why they make them.

But dying and spreading disease and death to others is a lot worse.
This is some victim blaming bullshit. Can't you wish everyone had the strength not to hit their partners, not to hit their children, not to manipulate, isolate, and terrorize their partners until they can't leave?
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:18 AM
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Not quite what I (thought I) was saying. My issue is with idiot conservatives pretending that liberals think their politicians are perfect and can't see their warts, because that's what they think. My contention is that yes, Cuomo has warts. NYers know that. But he is far better than anything the right has thrown up against him. And in this crisis, as conservatives try desperately to shift focus away from their horrible decisions, pointing out that Cuomo said something that could be interpreted as bad when Georgia and Florida Republican governors are actively trying to kill people is complete and total bullshit.
DeSantis has actually slowed down a lot, and is being much more cautious now. Maybe because he even saw Daddy Trump get mad at Kemp for re-opening so quickly.

DeSantis was actually a a pretty good good before all this happened. He kind of fumbled at first with the response to COVID-19, but heís doing better now Iíve noticed. Heís going to take it much slower than Kemp did. Even though he is the biggest Trump supporter, his policymaking in the state since he became governor has actually been pretty decent.
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Old 04-29-2020, 12:50 AM
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There are children right now living in hell because of this. They will remember the lock down as a blur of pain, of sexual assault, of constant, grinding fear and shame with no hope of rescue or respite. We should not say to those children "Well, at least you aren't dead. Quit your bitching". We should say "We are sorry we had to pick the lives of the many over the safety of a smaller group." And we should be thinking of ways to mitigate this, to reach out to those kids (and adults) and find a way to offer at least some of them escape.

Sometimes hard choices have to be made, but it's chickenshit to deny the price others are paying.
Someone wrote a meme that said, in so many words, that parents now have carte blanche to "correct" their kids as they see fit, because the kids aren't in school and CPS won't be breathing down the parents' necks for such travesties as making the kids eat their vegetables.

Not how that works, folks.
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Old 04-29-2020, 08:23 AM
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Reminds me of when so many youngsters were running away to San Francisco. Remember thinking, well, kinda understand all the teenage boys, after all, defiance, adventure and "free love". But why so many girls, I wondered. "Nice" girls, shy, withdrawn, timid. Now, we know.
  #38  
Old 04-30-2020, 03:42 PM
Cartooniverse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carla.Liz View Post
Men are often the victims of emotional and sometimes physical abuse.
I was for 23 years in a marriage, if one can call it that.

I don't bring it up because the painful reality of it is immediately drowned out by the rage of women who are/were victims of same.

It's kind of appalling. The victimization gleefully continued by women besides my ex-wife.

I like Cuomo an awful lot. I live in NYC. He's doing a heck of a thing with this nightmare.

That said, his coarse phrasing is chilling. Domestic violence is the death that isn't over at the end of the night.

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  #39  
Old 04-30-2020, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manda JO View Post
This is some victim blaming bullshit. Can't you wish everyone had the strength not to hit their partners, not to hit their children, not to manipulate, isolate, and terrorize their partners until they can't leave?
It would be nice if we lived in a perfect world where things happened exactly as you wish, but we donít. Evil assholes will unfortunately always exist, so your post is pretty much a non-sequitur.

Itís the height of intellectual dishonesty to blame Cuomo, and even the virus itself for domestic violence. People trapped in abusive situations were already living under such conditions before the pandemic paralyzed us as a whole. His job (and the job of any leader of a territory/country) is to do what he can within his powers to mitigate the amount of casualties caused by COVID-19, and that canít be done without instituting a lockdown of some sorts. Which inevitably means that some people will be cooped up with abusive partners/family members/roommates with no chance of a reprieve from the abuse. What is your proposed solution to this dilemma? Do you want the lockdown to be lifted and risk tens of thousands more lives lost in order to provide relief for the few who would benefit from that? Youíre aware that abuse victims arenít the only ones negatively impacted by the situation, right? People whose income have dropped to zero are hurt by this too, and theyíre largely the ones protesting this lockdown. People who are ill and require medical treatment have had their elective surgeries postponed indefinitely. Thereís going to be a lot of horrible collateral damage from this pandemic thatís not unique to domestic abuse victims and while itís absolutely sad, thereís not a whole lot that can be done about it. My countryís government has allocated funds for domestic violence shelters, and itís great that they did that. But Cuomo is but a governor of a state, and the bulk of the help should be coming from the federal government. Heís already going above and beyond his capacities, at this point people like you and OP are effectively asking him to acquire godlike capabilities. Which isnít fair in the least.

Also, the term ďvictim-blamingĒ is being misused and (no pun intended) abused here. No one is to blame for their partners choosing to behave abusively, physically or otherwise. But letís be honest here, most women in abusive relationships still choose to stay in such relationships even when presented with option and resources to leave. Sometimes they do leave and then eventually go back to those relationships. And itís not unique to those facing economic hardship. How many times did Rihanna go back to Chris Brown before leaving for good? Resource-wise, she is far more privileged than the vast majority of people in similar situations. There was no practical reason for her to stay with him, and yet she did. You canít really pin her choices on anyone but her. The same goes for those choosing not to flee abusive situations. Nobody invites abuse, but we do control our destiny through our choices. If someone had the means to leave their abuser before the pandemic and they chose not to exercise that choice, who is at fault here? Certainly not Cuomo.

I have sympathy for DV victims, I understand the psychology of Stockholm syndrome, but I think advocates for them forget that they are still responsible for gathering the courage to leave. The same way we can have sympathy for addicts who come from tragic backgrounds while understanding theyíre still responsible for taking control of their lives instead of continually blaming everyone else. What gets lost in the discourse on DV victims is the frustration of their family and friends who have given up their time, their energy and in some cases even their own lives trying to rescue their loved ones from abusive relationships only for them to willingly jump back into the boiling pot, rendering all the sacrifices for naught. At some point you have to acknowledge some these victims are architects of their own destruction as well. You canít control other peopleís actions, but you can control how you respond to the situations caused by other peopleís actions, and itís not victim-blaming to say this.*

*Of course this doesnít apply to people who canít leave due to a lack of support/resources and children.
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