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Old 05-06-2020, 12:22 AM
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Stillwater OK caves to tRumpist terrorism?


The mayor of Stillwater OK rescinded the town ordinance requiring folks to wear masks of some kind when in public during the Covid crisis. His reason: some a$$hat threatened a store employee with a gun when the employee refused service to him unless the customer wore a mask.

Seems to me that the law should come down like a ton of bricks on someone who breaks a special public health ordinance with threats of violence. The mayor thought otherwise and caved to the threat. A$$hat was never apprehended AFAIK.

Presuming the a$$hat to have been trying to make a political point like the Michigan rabble, would you call this domestic terrorism? I think it is.
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Old 05-06-2020, 12:44 AM
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It seems to me that the law should come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who threatens someone else with a gun. Seems like it should be particularly easy in this case because the jerk with a gun was NOT wearing a mask.

This points to the inevitabilty that the people with guns will win.
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Old 05-06-2020, 04:07 AM
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There actually was a report of someone who shot and killed a shop security guard for insisting that their daughter wear a mask. Even then they didn't give in, and instead went after the murderers.

(BBC link because they don't have any paywalls.)
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Old 05-06-2020, 04:58 AM
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It shows that they don't give a flying fuck about the health of the workers. How charmingly Republican.
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Old 05-06-2020, 09:58 AM
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I suspect that it has less to do with the threats of potential violence than it does from general public outcry against the mandatory order in a highly pro-Trump city. Basically, the mayor realized that his order wasn't going to help his re-election chances, so he used the threat of violence as an excuse to do a 180 degree flip-flop.
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Old 05-06-2020, 10:09 AM
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Yeah this totally sends the wrong message. It rewards the violence and may encourage copycatters.
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Old 05-06-2020, 11:05 AM
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There actually was a report of someone who shot and killed a shop security guard for insisting that their daughter wear a mask. Even then they didn't give in, and instead went after the murderers.
The murderous morons in this instance went after the security guard because he had "disrespected" their relative.

It's a long stretch to refer to this incident or the verbal and physical threats that occurred in Stillwater as "domestic terrorism", but it's disgusting that Stillwater officials backed down, and it doesn't help that Trump and Pence are setting a lousy example by not wearing masks on their publicity tours.
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Old 05-06-2020, 01:01 PM
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What the hell does any of this have to do with terrorism or Donald Trump?

Does the OP have a link that supports his claim that the mayor caved because of this crime or that Trump or terrorism was involved?

This is one hell of a loose definition of "terrorism" in any form. It is garden variety crime.
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Old 05-06-2020, 02:16 PM
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Silly rabbit. Masks are for Antifa.
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Old 05-06-2020, 07:24 PM
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What the hell does any of this have to do with terrorism or Donald Trump?

Does the OP have a link that supports his claim that the mayor caved because of this crime or that Trump or terrorism was involved?

This is one hell of a loose definition of "terrorism" in any form. It is garden variety crime.
Here you go. There are interviews with the mayor where he speaks at some length. His logic is pretty tortured.


Oklahoma city ends face mask rule for shoppers after store employees are threatened
"Store employees have been threatened with physical violence and showered with verbal abuse," the Stillwater city manager said. "There has been one threat of violence using a firearm."
nbcnews.com
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Old 05-06-2020, 08:00 PM
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Here you go. There are interviews with the mayor where he speaks at some length. His logic is pretty tortured.


Oklahoma city ends face mask rule for shoppers after store employees are threatened
"Store employees have been threatened with physical violence and showered with verbal abuse," the Stillwater city manager said. "There has been one threat of violence using a firearm."
nbcnews.com
So where's the actual link?
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:08 AM
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So where's the actual link?
All Americans who are idiots, including Donald Trump, comprise a giant fungus-like mega-organism of stupidity, sometimes feeding on itself but more often poisoning the environment around it.
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Old 05-07-2020, 03:13 AM
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What the hell does any of this have to do with terrorism or Donald Trump?

Does the OP have a link that supports his claim that the mayor caved because of this crime or that Trump or terrorism was involved?

This is one hell of a loose definition of "terrorism" in any form. It is garden variety crime.
The use of violence to force a change in the law is pretty much the definition of terrorism, surely?
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:15 AM
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I despise these fuckers, but the mayor probably made the right call. Doubling down is only going to increase tensions.
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Old 05-07-2020, 08:54 AM
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The use of violence to force a change in the law is pretty much the definition of terrorism, surely?
Haven't you learned anything from all of our school shootings? It's not terrorism if a white guy does it!

/S obviously...

Last edited by Babale; 05-07-2020 at 08:54 AM. Reason: you never know
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:13 AM
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All Americans who are idiots, including Donald Trump, comprise a giant fungus-like mega-organism of stupidity, sometimes feeding on itself but more often poisoning the environment around it.
So, neither you, nor the OP, have anything. Duly noted.
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:17 AM
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So, neither you, nor the OP, have anything. Duly noted.
I have a well-practiced ability to mock Americans who are dumb, and also the ability to discern when not to pretend to be indignant and eye-rolling because that simply guarantees that nobody will take me seriously at any time.

That said, Trump is symptomatic of the U.S. penchant for stupidity, not the font of it, but I have no problem blaming him for encouraging the kind of atmosphere that is fostering imbecilic situations like this.
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:34 AM
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The use of violence to force a change in the law is pretty much the definition of terrorism, surely?
We still do not have any links or cites, let alone ones saying that this idiot pulled a gun on the store clerk to "force a change in law" in whatever way that would be accomplished by pulling a gun on a store clerk, or how this is related to Donald Trump.

What we have is one incident in Oklahoma where a guy pulls a gun on a store clerk, with the barest of details, and the claim is that it is Trump-sponsored terrorism. I thought this board usually required a tad more than that, but of course, we are talking about Trump, so carry on.
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:53 AM
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We still do not have any links or cites, let alone ones saying that this idiot pulled a gun on the store clerk to "force a change in law" in whatever way that would be accomplished by pulling a gun on a store clerk, or how this is related to Donald Trump.

What we have is one incident in Oklahoma where a guy pulls a gun on a store clerk, with the barest of details, and the claim is that it is Trump-sponsored terrorism. I thought this board usually required a tad more than that, but of course, we are talking about Trump, so carry on.
Correct. This thread is nothing more than TDS, writ large. "Orange Man Bad" is not a basis for a Great Debate.
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Old 05-07-2020, 10:02 AM
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And yet, we have a side that cannot agree that Orange man is bad.
  #21  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:28 AM
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"[T]he [Stillwater] police department received an anonymous phone threat wherein the caller indicated he would respond with firearms if officers tried to enforce the face covering order with him."

Sure sounds like one of those astroturf Trump supporters.
  #22  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:36 AM
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There actually was a report of someone who shot and killed a shop security guard for insisting that their daughter wear a mask. Even then they didn't give in, and instead went after the murderers.
It has happened (at least once) again:

- Customers shot 2 McDonald's employees after being told to leave due to coronavirus restrictions
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:39 AM
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We still do not have any links or cites, let alone ones saying that this idiot pulled a gun on the store clerk to "force a change in law" in whatever way that would be accomplished by pulling a gun on a store clerk, or how this is related to Donald Trump.
Do you expect someone pulling a gun on a store clerk for enforcing rules due to coronavirus to actually engage in a debate or even rant about government policy on this and they are threatening the clerk explicitly to make the government change the law?

Really?
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  #24  
Old 05-07-2020, 03:36 PM
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I despise these fuckers, but the mayor probably made the right call. Doubling down is only going to increase tensions.
No way the mayor made the right call. Masks are for the protection of others, as in the store employees who keep the store open and keep the drooling mask deniers fed. The mayor fucked up. The mayor let politics decide the health response; the mayor fucked up.
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Old 05-07-2020, 05:36 PM
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Correct. This thread is nothing more than TDS, writ large. "Orange Man Bad" is not a basis for a Great Debate.
Well, "is water wet" had run its course. But invoke "TDS" some more, that'll certainly establish your credibility on the topic.
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  #26  
Old 05-07-2020, 06:48 PM
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So where is the debate?
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:05 PM
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Do you expect someone pulling a gun on a store clerk for enforcing rules due to coronavirus to actually engage in a debate or even rant about government policy on this and they are threatening the clerk explicitly to make the government change the law?

Really?
Sure, if the person's purpose was to call attention to the mask law, I would expect them to make it known.

But is your position that because the gunman said nothing, then he must be a terrorist and a Trump supporter? And even if he was a Trump supporter, that does not justify the thread title that his actions were Trumpist...unless I missed a press conference where Trump told people to violently react when told to wear masks.

This is sure as shit TDS.
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:50 PM
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So where is the debate?
Some of us are debating whether the mayor fucked up by capitulating to the droolers. Have you a position on that?
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Old 05-07-2020, 07:54 PM
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So where's the actual link?
I put it in twice. No idea what happened. Hit Twitter and search on Stillwater. Tons of video is there.

Apologies to all for my SD tech incompetence.
  #30  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:20 PM
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So where is the debate?
Where's that dang forest, anyway?
  #31  
Old 05-07-2020, 08:28 PM
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Sure, if the person's purpose was to call attention to the mask law, I would expect them to make it known.

But is your position that because the gunman said nothing, then he must be a terrorist and a Trump supporter? And even if he was a Trump supporter, that does not justify the thread title that his actions were Trumpist...unless I missed a press conference where Trump told people to violently react when told to wear masks.

This is sure as shit TDS.
Without more information there is no way to know for sure.

That said, if I were a betting man (MODS...I am NOT offering a bet), I'd bet dollars to dimes he was a Trump supporter and Trump and the cult of personality that has arisen absolutely contributed to these people's actions.
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Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 05-07-2020 at 08:29 PM.
  #32  
Old 05-07-2020, 09:40 PM
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The Mayor erred on the side of caution in the sense of "people threatening armed violence is something more imminent than a health hazard" and of "this is not a hill I will command common workers to literally die on". However, erring it was all the same. Lawful civil authorities cannot, MUST NOT send the message that random threats of armed violence will cause a merely inconvenient public safety measure to be withdrawn. Furthermore, "no mask, no service" is not a threat to life or safety that it is legitimate to respond to with deadly force; threatening armed violence over it is wholly antisocial conduct that must not be pandered to and should be discouraged. "Because I am armed, I can do whatever the bloody hell I want and nobody can tell me how to behave, even in someone else's property" is wrong and must be treated so.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 05-07-2020 at 09:42 PM.
  #33  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:02 PM
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Hit Twitter and search on Stillwater.
"Hitting Twitter" is SO not going to happen.

The SDMB is, or at least should be, better than that.
  #34  
Old 05-07-2020, 11:05 PM
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Sigh. The president can directly advocate for fighting against the state and local governments for reasonable precautions like wearing masks, painting them as tyrants, but, if someone actually treats them like tyrants, it's not even partially the president's fault.

It's the basic smoke/fire principle here. Is it possible that maybe all of these people who support the violence Trump has supported and push Trump's positions are not Trump supporters, but came to this belief without his influence? Yes, but it is highly unlikely. It would only make rational sense to assume the vastly less likely case if you had evidence to the contrary.

At least with the girl not wearing a mask whose family killed a security guard, you can at least cite that the people involved are black, and that black people are less likely to be Trump supporters. But here you have literally nothing to go on. You have no evidence to support your position to vary from the null hypothesis which is that which is most likely is probably true.

That you feel the need to call us deranged only shows that you know how weak your argument is. You feel you need to punch it up with insults.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:37 PM
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I keep seeing the thread title and wondering about those interesting caves in Stillwater OK.
  #36  
Old 05-09-2020, 10:00 PM
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My goodness. I have been taken to task for failing to competently cite a reference, for citing a reference that is beneath the dignity of Straight Dopers, and for the unwarranted use of colloquialisms. Then there is the matter of someone being deranged. Quite a fun crowd.

My question might be better put, and then left to stand on its own. I wonder if a person who violates public health ordinances and threatens those following them with a firearm is a terrorist? The unstated assumption is that presumed terrorist is operating in accordance with the expressed wishes of a political hack who has solicited his followers to behave in that way.
  #37  
Old 05-10-2020, 12:53 AM
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For anyone who cares, here's a link:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...oyees-n1198736
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  #38  
Old 05-10-2020, 01:08 AM
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My question might be better put, and then left to stand on its own. I wonder if a person who violates public health ordinances and threatens those following them with a firearm is a terrorist? The unstated assumption is that presumed terrorist is operating in accordance with the expressed wishes of a political hack who has solicited his followers to behave in that way.
A terrorist is one who acts to induce fear (terror) in a targeted group. When a political leader provokes fear by word or deed; when an individual or mob acts to provoke fear in others; then they are terrorists. Incitement to riot or insurrection is terrorism. And if the terrorists are Americans waging war on the nation, they are traitors by constitutional definition (USC Art.III Sec.3). This POTUS is a terrorist and traitor.* Armed anti-government insurrectionists are terrorists and traitors. And the Justice Dept won't do diddly-shit because the AG is also a terrorist and traitor.

* Putin's defence minister and Tramp's UN ambassador, both cabinet-level officials, declared in 2017 that Russia is waging war on the US. Support for Russia is thus treason.
  #39  
Old 05-10-2020, 07:18 AM
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For many centuries there was a doctrine in Europe that civil authority had no power inside a Christian church. In the modern American religion, at least as practiced in territories like Trumpia or Flyoverland, the kill area of a weapon lawfully borne under the Second Amendment subsumes the sanctuary status once held by churches. In the Land of the Free, it is OK to cough or sneeze, and certainly not to wear a mask, as long as you're displaying this religious symbol. Stillwater's decision is a tribute to the growing strength of this new, distinctively American religion.

The Stillwater mayor could have specified that masks were still required for those not carrying a gun those who'd left their religious icon at home and were thus not explicitly claiming sanctuary, but to his credit, and to avert liberal outrage, he made his order ecumenical.
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