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  #101  
Old 06-03-2020, 06:18 AM
TheMightyAtlas is offline
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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost View Post
Until notfrommensa and TonySinclair show up...I'll try.

The average lay person, never having touched a golf club before, isn't going to be able to get the ball up. There's a minimum level of skill to hit a golf ball, even with something like a pitching wedge.

Assuming they have that level of skill, and assuming all of the rules of golf are followed, my guess is that most people play about quadruple bogey golf. I.e., if par is 4, they'll shoot an 8. Difficult holes, ones with forced carries over obstacles, severe obstacles by the hole (water, out of bounds), can make that number skyrocket. To infinity, I guess, if the golfer simply can't make a 240-ish yard forced carry over an obstacle.

But a garden variety, 360 yd par 4 from the whites? Shoot, 3 or 4 pitching wedges, and you're on the green. Three or four putts, and you're in, and on to the next hole. No need for 30 shots.
My wife and a friend, neither having ever so much as having had a go at a driving range, decided to join their tween daughters on a round of golf at a par-3 “executive” course. I was expecting they’d give up after not being able to make contact on the first tee with ten attempts. They both got down in 7 or 8 on the first hole. Lost a few balls, but managed to get through 9 holes without giving up or getting booted by the stewards.

They were playing from the red (juniors) tees so no carried over water or heather.

Neither of them are accomplished athletes, but both very fit from yoga and dance. Extremely coordinated and very good control of their bodies.

I was flabbergasted.
  #102  
Old 06-03-2020, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by erysichthon View Post
Thanks for that interesting explanation. I figured students wouldn't do a complete vault on the first try, but I couldn't get my head around how you'd gradually work up to that. A well-executed pole vault seems almost miraculous to me.
When I was in high school I was a diver on the swim team. Not great, but good enough to score points for the team each meet. The Track and Field coach approached us divers to ask if we wanted to try pole vault. He figured we were experienced at controlling our bodies in the air and thought the skills would translate well to pole vault. I didn't take him up on the offer, I didn't have the time, but I wish I had at least tried it.
  #103  
Old 06-03-2020, 08:51 AM
Tom Scud is offline
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Originally Posted by Xema View Post
I concur that pole vaulting is a "technique-intensive" sport with a huge difference between professional and layman. Others in track and field would include hammer throw, discus and the triple jump.
Funny story: the first (modern) Olympic discus champion had never thrown (or touched) one before the games. His main event was shot put and he had done hammer throws before, though.

Last edited by Tom Scud; 06-03-2020 at 08:52 AM.
  #104  
Old 06-03-2020, 08:55 AM
Tom Scud is offline
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Your typical man off the street isn't anywhere near as good at greyhound racing as one of the pros.
"There's nothing in the rules that says a human can't run on the track!"
  #105  
Old 06-03-2020, 10:08 AM
Snarky_Kong is offline
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Originally Posted by TheMightyAtlas View Post
. I was expecting they’d give up after not being able to make contact on the first tee with ten attempts..
Wait, you thought they wouldn't even be able to hit the ball?
  #106  
Old 06-03-2020, 03:26 PM
Gray Ghost is offline
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Originally Posted by TheMightyAtlas View Post
My wife and a friend, neither having ever so much as having had a go at a driving range, decided to join their tween daughters on a round of golf at a par-3 “executive” course. I was expecting they’d give up after not being able to make contact on the first tee with ten attempts. They both got down in 7 or 8 on the first hole. Lost a few balls, but managed to get through 9 holes without giving up or getting booted by the stewards.

They were playing from the red (juniors) tees so no carried over water or heather.

Neither of them are accomplished athletes, but both very fit from yoga and dance. Extremely coordinated and very good control of their bodies.

I was flabbergasted.
That's awesome! It took me seemingly forever to get the ball up, and going roughly the direction I wanted it to go. I would have been forced to use a putter to move the ball, were I in their position.

They sound much more athletic than I am. Or was. Very well done.

Now that they can get the ball up, if they want to do better score wise, start working on saving strokes around the green.

EDIT: SK, that would be my expectation too. That if they were to hit it, they would top it, shank it, send it flying off towards another hole.

I've had times in the middle of a round, where I started hitting four inches behind the ball, or topping it with every club. Just completely lost the hang of things. Not so much now anymore, but for an absolute beginner? Sure.

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 06-03-2020 at 03:29 PM.
  #107  
Old 06-03-2020, 06:32 PM
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I think poker is one where you can easily have a layman outperform a pro over the course of a tournament or night. There's a strong enough luck element that it's fairly easy for a pro to have a string of bad luck early on and the amateur get decent luck, and end up with a pro finishing behind the amateur in tournament position or total winnings. (The pro will win in the long run) You don't get that in a non-random game like Chess, or a low-randomness game like most e-sports, or games with a high physical element like athletic sports.
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